First Impressions

[dmimmersion]

In the case if you do not have the log.. just screen shot the conversation and combat information when it happens.. while not the preferred way.. it can be used at times.

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

I agree that there is alot of drama in Isenhold between the higher level and well established players of the server that probably makes us all look bad to newcomers if they happen to stumble out of the regal (or into) at the wrong time. I don't think it's any single group of players, or individuals that can take the blame for this. We all share the blame for this one, even if we only encourage it by being onlookers. I like to hang around Isenhold to play songs for the newer people, and as a bard, I often am asked for information by players who have just logged in, so I -do- have a valid reason for my presence. That being said: I am an established player with friends and enemies...and might just get trapped in, or willingly join into some drama just because I happen to be there. So basically I am saying that I don't go there to create drama, but I certainly contribute in my own way. I'll be spending alot of time in Marsember when I become more active later this month. I already spend a good deal of my time there. I am going to throw this out there, again: Evil players, good players, and neutral players alike, especially those of higher level/experience should congregate in larger cities such as Suzail and Marsember.

[irene]

I still agree with Batty's first post.

If someone is being abusive, they should face the consequences, whether it is toward someone of higher or lower level.

The problem is, there is no consensus as to what is abusive behaviour, and when violence are in order. Some characters are role-played in a way, that one gets the impression that it takes the drop of a needle to trigger a frenzied killing-spree, or at least having death-threats flying around.

This may amuse the player who in this way bullies the other players. It is not constructive role-play, though, because it leaves only a few options: Walk away. No more role-play. Draw weapon. PvP ensues. Be intimidated and cower in fear and awe of the almighty lvl. 25 character.

The last option might be interesting RP for a few, but for the majority it is more likely to chase them away from the server, shaking their heads, if they are newcomers. If they are experienced players on the server, they'll quit the notion of playing their lowbies, as long as the bully-characters are around.

Role playing is about -working together-, even when you are opposed. If you constantly press every confrontation to where PvP ensues, it kills constructive role-play. And the same if you -constantly- bully lower level characters into submission. It destroys the fun of roleplaying... and for what?

There are many "bad guys" on the server, and they are all role-played differently. But the interesting bad guys and girls, are those who use threats and violence sparingly. You can interact with them, and gradually realize their vileness, and maybe learn what made them vile. That is working together. Telling someone to shut up, or they will get their head torn off, is not.

Likewise, if your character has somehow abused another character, killing, torture or simply abuse, for some reason or another, you OWE that character a shot at you. You know it is coming, and so what? You don't know when, and how it is coming. You don't know -what- is coming. It's about balancing things out, to keep it interesting for all. If you refuse to ever lower your guard and flow with the stream, you may "win", but you don't add anything to the role-play. You leave only one option to the weaker characters, and that is social shunning. While it can be a fairly effective method, it is not particularly funny for anyone.

Role-playing is not about winning and loosing. It's about creating interesting situations. And to do that, you have to give and take. And if you take a lot, you also have to give a lot back. Otherwise you get irritation, frustration, and eventually anger.

Finally, I'd like to say something about the DM-role. In my opinion it -is- a DM-job, to define the borders when they see what they consider excessive abuse, either IC, or if that does not work, then OOC. You can say we should all be mature and grownups, and maybe we should, but I see a lot of frustration and irritation, that this issue is not adressed, and -that- triggers PvP, where one faction or the other says: Enough is enough, lets just kill him/her... even if they very well knows it solves absolutely nothing.

[ManyAsOne]

I'm thankful for the few who have gotten my point... Sadly, from all I've read, there was only a small handful.

[shue]

I totally agree with DM Batty, my first impression of the server was exactly the one batty is talking about , but i was lucky i met a lot of nice players that were starting in the same days i did, so we maked a little group, and a few High levels charcaters helped me too, answering polietely and with patience at so many of my questions.

I Met and Saw a lot of high level charcters acting bully without particular reason against the lowest ones, just because they saw a new face they begin to threat or act bully, because ooc they are sure they are level 1 or so, the funny thing is that if the same high levels see a new face, but they know is a charcater played by a DM for a plot or quest they show totally respect(maybe they fear the little farmer played by the DM is a level 30 fighter ready to kick their ass ?^^).

But the really odd thing i saw is when some low levels ask for help at the high levels, asking them where they can buy a weapon or wich is a good place to explore or if they heard some rumors and such, well probably some high levels due to allignement or RP reason are not so sociable with everyone, but it was really sad seeing these low levels been ignored or therat just because they asked a few questions, just because maybe is the first time they play this game or are a bit slow in typing and move the charcater in a strange way or can t type english very good isn t a nice thing if you take advantage of that in order to threat them or to act bully.

[Manshin]

Odd, I dont know where all these jerks are hiding. There arent -that- many people around, and ive usually seen the higher level characters being helpful to newer players, I know I always try to... er.. well, with my helpful characters. But even my jerks at -least- try to make things entertaining.

Dont get me wrong, I -have- seen bully activity, but not that much. On the other hand, I do really think people should spread out. And on that note... Abby went to the Wailing Wheel in Suzail tonight and there were butt loads of people there. Horray!

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Do not go to suzail ... I repeat, do not go there. Stay in isinhold. Stay there with your hands in your pants whilst I unleash a terrible plot and take over cormyr ... all by myself cause all the high levels were too busy talking smack and not actually wagging their swords

[Vlad]

Well...
I didn't like what i've read about the goblin fortress event.
Here is my opinion.

Had something happen just a little while ago that almost made me spit.

A sentence like this one coming from a former DM irks me

And though the epics might of "stayed out" they were still there in the background, generally nearby, like a safety net. Would the PCs in the active group acted as they did if they didn't know the epics were nearby for a rescue? That may never be answered, but the influence is still there.

So what? Does it mean we are the ones to blame because of others players actions? This is not serious. If the active group was not smart is not of our fault. I cannot agree with that at all. So easy to blame one or another one's faults.
And what if our epic characters decided to not stay here in the background and leave Isinhold? The rescue team would have been probably slaughtered as well and all the characters around would have blamed ours for the death of some adventurers.
So please keep your spittle for someone else.

And neither one of us had the free-time of "telling the epics" to reconsider and move along. There are some things that a DM should not have to think-about for a player, in my personal opinion.

Actually...My character did what high-level characters did in the past to save Nolendil and Randal's arsses.
This is the only thing i had in mind at this time.

There are worse things than a few epic characters rescuing lower lever ones on this server, really.

[Vlad]

And now about the first post.
I have a problem. I don't mean to start a flame war. But i learnt a few things since the original post.

From ShadowCatJen

It comes down not only to character attitudes, but player attitudes as well. If a player thinks there is going to be no repercussions towards their character when they start to bully, push, or just be confrontational, then they will continue that attitude regardless of how harmful it will be to a community.

if these particular bullying characters are not making it fun for others, then what will be done about them? What can be done about them?

Maybe in the first place those evil bullying characters should not have been pampered.
The DMs should not favor some characters above the others, those characters will become sooner or later out of control.

From DM Batty

You are all responsible for your own actions.

Yes..you reap what you saw.

Everything was alright before the Dominion event..since everything is getting worse. This is my opinion.

From ShadowCatJen

Also consider this, players who have managed to get high or epic level characters should also be good examples for the community. Representatives of the player base for the server as a whole. You should be expected to be considerate of other players about you and to the crew is well. Unfortunately, FRC has no absolute stipulation that a high or epic level do this.

It works for you DMs as well.
In my opinion, it is a good thing that the DMs reminds us when we are breaking the rules and the like for the server sake but they should be examplary.

The DMs should be the first ones to give the good example.
I speak about it because since i'm playing here i've noticed some odd behaviour coming from players and DMs alike.
I like playing here and sometimes i feel that most of the IG conflicts come from ooc problems. Many times i got bored of it and wanted to quit because of it.

I will make some suggestions:
Any DM should clearly say who are his characters when he logs in as a player.
Many did it and it is a good thing and others didn't. They should do it.
Or once they are named DM and start DMing they should not log again as players as long as they have a DM account.


From ShadowCatJen

And as for the verbal abuse in Isinhold, please mind that there is, indeed, an "incitement" law. This law was put into place exactly for the reasons to avoid this sort of behavior. If your character is jaw jacking to someone enough to make them want to fight then your character is breaking the Incitement law.

From ShadowCatJen

Their endless jockeying against one another for power in that village greatly undermines the value of a low-level player's accomplishments. Small towns and villages need small-town heroes and villains. They deserve renown and when high-levels are there displaying their awesome power on a daily basis, its hard to feel anything but insignificant. Its worse when you're actually taunted, another habit I've noticed on the rise lately, coming from both high-level good guys and bad guys alike.

Alright.
As long as evil characters will brag about their crimes everyday in the Isinhold's square without being punished it won't cease i fear.
Many of the good characters are tired of this situation.
Many times i thought that the only solution was to start an open war and kill all the bad guys every time it was possible until they get bored.

The laws should be more severe and the authorities more active.


Whatever i said above, this is the reflection of my current state of mind...
I am tired and bored of this mess.


I almost forgot, there is a sentence said by a known evil character:
'Look, the rock has its own secret laws and we are its secret guardians.'

Seriously, don't be surprised if those evil characters are mocked sometimes.

*laughs sarcastically*

[Munroe]

May 8, 2008 4:33:36 GMT -5 Vlad said:

Well...
I didn't like what i've read about the goblin fortress event.
Here is my opinion.

Had something happen just a little while ago that almost made me spit.

A sentence like this one coming from a former DM irks me

Former DMs have the same liberty to speak as any other player.

[ManyAsOne]

I'm really sorry, guys. Apparently this was a bad topic to bring up. Instead of focusing on the issue, its turned into good vs evil, us vs them, player vs player... I have seen very little but excuses and a thousand and one posts that have nothing to do with what I originally brought up. Its just bickering back and forth now and its making my stomach turn.

I can't believe it is really all that hard. Maybe I was expecting too much.

I really can't see it as anything more simple than selfishness. When I say 'consider the community', I get a million posts and PMs telling me why that's not possible. When I ask players to just consider their actions in one little tiny town for the sake of our newer players, I get told that all the other towns are problematic. It makes me really wonder about the level of maturity and responsibility we can expect here. I think I may have been sorely mistaken when I thought to myself "this won't be a problem. I'll simply tell them what I think and they'll work together to solve it."

Apparently not.

[Rashai]

If I have not misunderstood what DM Batty has suggested, I believe there are lots of good ideas for how to do it in the PDF here:
frc.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=roleplaydiscussion&action=display&thread=692

Most of it is geared towards adventuring parties, but I could see applying it to my character's behavior in general. Examples:

Respect the Other Players
In general, we don’t know the people we’re gaming with. You may wish to explore a subject or situation that makes others in the party uncomfortable, for example, a relationship with another character in the party. Another player may spoil your in-game plans by upstaging you, mistakenly or otherwise. Give them the benefit of the doubt. They probably didn’t mean to upset you, the player. If you have a concern, try talking to them out of the game about your concerns.
Ultimately, it’s all about respecting others’ styles of play and finding a balance as an adventuring group. If you find that you are teamed with players whose style differs from yours, don’t try to get blood from a stone, look for a new group! There are certainly plenty out there. And if you’re in a party where roles are duplicated, and you’re the stronger one, look for opportunities to give your counterpart some room to shine. Have your fighter feign an injury and ask the other to hold the front for a night, for example.

Breaking Conventions
Breaking conventions is fine, for the most part. But, if you are going to do so, my suggestion is:
If you are going to “break conventions,” be sure to role-play them explicitly. This, more than anything, will prevent player-to-player miscommunication, hurt feelings, and disappointing results....
...but the key is to make an extra effort to role-play in these situations to prevent miscommunication between players. That will help stave off hard feelings. Adventuring parties frequently survive conflict between characters, but not between players. This can be particularly important in multiplayer NWN, because on many occasions you may be playing with players who you have never met before, and therefore who don’t know your style or tendencies. This would be a helpful time to go OOC to discuss what you’re up to, or to clear things up with ‘tells’.

It’s quite possible to play a character that everyone hates, but is just useful enough to keep around. So, just keep the role-playing going. If you’re that thief, grudgingly give up a key piece of loot (but perhaps don’t tell them about all of the loot). If you’re the fighter, work out a deal with another party member to role-play him or her physically restraining you from rushing into combat. You get the picture. Don’t forget to really listen to feedback from other players and DMs, particularly when you are playing one of these tricky character types. After all, it’s more important for the group to have fun than for you to be fanatically true to your character.
What we are talking about here is having respect for the other players, regardless of what your character thinks of them. No matter how incredibly well played your character is, this is a game people play together for fun. If the other players don’t find it fun to have your character in the party, it just doesn’t matter how well played your character is. Ultimately, you as a player are responsible for how your character affects the game. No one will want to play with you if you push it so far that it isn’t enjoyable for him or her. Even if you have an extreme character, be willing to meet the other players somewhere in the middle, or you’re likely to find yourself looking for a new group.

[ShadowCatJen]

I'm not going to go on a quote-me/quote-you spree here, because nitpicking with particular words or phrases is only going to bury Batty's message.

A lot of things that a lot of folks are saying here are along the lines of baring excuses or pointing fingers. This gets us nowhere. It doesn't produce anything but OOC spite. That isn't the intent of this message.

What the intent is, is to bring forth the fact that the attitudes that Batty has mentioned has a negative impact on the way new players may view our community. Some players may not realize that though their antagonistic characters may be completely IC for what they are doing, they are not thinking of the OOC considerations that should be shown towards new players or even long time players playing low level characters.

This is an issue that begins and ends with the players themselves. Not with the crew. You can't expect a crew to do nothing but constantly police the server. That is unrealistic and very unfair to them when many of them would prefer to run quests. The crew also needs to have fun with DMing as well. Otherwise, why bother?

Would it really be that hard for the player base to simply take it elsewhere? Or to alter their character's behaviors for the OOC benefit of the server community?

If it is so difficult to do so then FRC has a bigger case of MeItus then I originally thought. People come here to have fun, but they come here to have fun with others. But if those others are so self-centric that they completely ignore basic common courtesy on an OOC level then I don't blame new players logging right off and never coming back again. Heck, I wouldn't blame a long time player for never coming back again.

Again, it begins and ends with us. Not me, not you, not they, not them, not Big Baddy A, not Goody Arse X, or even DM Team Supreme. Us. All of us.

I will quote one thing and one thing only, and it bares to be read again:

Jul 17, 2007 19:19:50 GMT -5 DM Richard (Retired) said:

What made FRC better than other mods? Was it the scripting? The way the areas looked? The attention to detail? The interaction of the DM's? The way players could start and drive their own quests? The way the community stood together? Was it any one thing?

The areas are still the same quality if not better. Scripting has improved. Even when we stopped adding into the mod, the bug fix thread has stayed open for those detail fixes that are needed. DM's interactions may be less than some like and more than others care for, but that isn't new either. Players can still start their own quests.

The one thing that seems to have changed to me is that instead of being a community, we are groups of people. Do you know what the difference is?

I think to get the feel back that we once had, we need to remember that our actions effect everyone on the server. Don't be self-centered.

I have two friends in real life that quit this server because of the "don't run" mentality. I've played DnD with these guys for years and still do. They don't understand that by running through town all the time they changed the feel of the town. To describe this in NWN terms, the "immersion factor" difficulty check was raised to where some of our players failed.

Where my friends hurting anyone? If you ask them, they weren't. If you ask the players in town, they were. My friends needed to realize that their actions effect others around them. They choose to go to an action server instead. I think it was the right thing for them to do.

Are you thinking you don't effect anyone? Do you believe your actions shouldn't matter to anyone else and that you want to be left alone? Are you a loner, part of a group, or part of a community that cares about each other?

[Ehver]

Personally I've seen a lot of good RP running around and with new people and new characters coming in everyday, I keep seeing more and more. I suppose perhaps there are those new people out there who are getting discouraged because of a couple bad encounters, but for the most part I've seen lots of people being helpful towards new players. . .and most of all, I've seen new players being helpful to other new players, banding together to go on adventures and sort things out as these characters actually would do if they truly existed.

Everyone has to accept that there are evil characters out there that won't want to help him. Everyone has to accept that there are characters out there who are maybe shy, or anti-social or just plain mean who will snear at them or ignore them or tell them to get lost or scuffle away when spoken to.

...perhaps to help newcomers feel welcome, when you have an evil character that scorns them you can simply send them a tell saying "Nothing personal, that's just my characters personality" and then maybe give them a little helpful hint about the server, or some good natured, useful advice. You shouldn't be expected to change your characters personality - especially when you have been RPing your character that way all along - just because a couple newbies might get their 'feelings hurt'. I think an OOC tell to clear up any misunderstands and give a bit of encouragement would do just fine to keep new players coming back for more.

[EDM Entori]

But I beleive the point is that you do not need to do it constantly in an sort of manner that gets tiresome, day in and day out, and would send people away from the server.

Yeah sure, a bit of sneering is not overly bad, but it goes beyond that. As a community who would like to see new players, one must attempt to give a new player enjoyment. That can be an evil character, some people play evil really well. However, when a new player comes on and sees cleric/mage buffed to the gills making threats cause they can cast whatever spell will slaughter them all, constantly. I mean that its more then an random moment.

[ManyAsOne]

Let me try one last time. I really hope this rings clear this time.

Please try to keep the high-level drama, violence, and epic-oriented roleplaying outside of Isinhold. If the only reason you are there is to feel like a tough guy, or to show off your high-level character then you have no business there. Isinhold isn't a grounds for you to feel tough. It isn't a battlefield in which to wage your grudge-wars against other high-level PCs. Isinhold is tailored to low-level players. They are the focus there. If you're there for any of the above mentioned reasons, you need to rethink how you play your character there because it is providing a negative first impression and a bad example.

Is this specifically directed towards evil PCs? Nope. Not at all. There are many good and neutral PCs which are doing this too. They're pursuing their high-level motives and goals in a low-level environment too. I have seen many cases of over-pampering or overshadowing low-level PCs in Isinhold. That, too, needs to stop.

The roleplaying that happens in Isinhold should be for the benefit of new low-level players. Can you still be evil? Of course. If a low-level PC insults you, you can, and indeed should react. But how you react is everying. Instead of uttering a spell and destroying them, consider why your evil PC would waste their breath. This is just an example, but try hiring other low-level PCs to give the problematic PC a fat lip. Suddenly you've created a quest for a few low-level PCs while keeping the challenge-level of your vengeance fair and low. You've successfully contributed what I like to call 'good input'. You were evil, but you were considerate.

Lets take a look at good guys. Can you still be good? Yes, of course. Instead of pursuing your evil high-level foe in Isinhold, arrange a duel of honor with them. Or, if they're not the type to succumb to a duel, then ambush them later at another locale. If a low-level PC is begging your good-aligned character for help, do you disregard them? No. But you don't have to pamper them or hand-walk them through anything. Give them pointers and tips. Train them on the combat dummy even. Tell them the weaknesses of the foe they face. If they're after undead, let them know that healing spells can harm them. Provide them with a mundane, hand-me-down suit of chainmail armor. The gift is well within their level range and may be an improvement on their old studded leather.

Just examples. If you want, start hiring low-level lackeys. Suddenly you can arrange for your low-level lackeys to spy on the low-level lackeys of your foe. You are giving these new players something to do while simultaneously fighting your foe, good or evil. Start playing with the new players in Isinhold instead of playing over, or at them.

You should not be the center of attention in Isinhold. It is catered towards low-level players. Small towns need small-town heroes. You are the high-level enigmatic elite that dot the realms. You probably have goals that are greater than one little village. If you want to go to Isinhold to interact, by all means do so, but keep in the back of your mind that this is a stomping-grounds for people who are new. Their accomplishments aren't as great as yours, but their accomplishments should still be of note in the small-town environment. They shouldn't be overshadowed by you. At least not yet. Give them some starting time in the sun.

These new players are not getting eased into the server when this high-level drama and roleplaying sweeps through town. They're immediately face-to-face with the high-rollers of Cormyr right off the bat and, more often than not, are getting swept up in the crossfire or being overshadowed and made to feel like their roleplaying and accomplishments are completely insignificant. It is time that high-level players had less of a hand in things in Isinhold. If you find you are unable to do this, please, don't enter town then because it is getting to the point were it is actually detrimental to new players.

The solution to all of this is really simple. Either contribute in a manner which adds to the flavor and depth of the village and compliments and caters to the roleplaying of these newer players or go somewhere where it makes more sense to flaunt your extreme amounts of power. There are many cities in Cormyr to go to and many small towns. Pick one and tell your friends.

[ashaffer]

May 8, 2008 1:35:29 GMT -5 Quadhund/Greenhouse said:

Do not go to suzail ... I repeat, do not go there. Stay in isinhold. Stay there with your hands in your pants whilst I unleash a terrible plot and take over cormyr ... all by myself cause all the high levels were too busy talking smack and not actually wagging their swords

There is NO WAY your diabolical plan to get us all to join you in your butt scratching, finger sniffing, activities will succeed... NEVER!!!


;D

[Kolfrosta]

First, I would like to commend both DM Batty, and SCJen for awesome posts. Especially the one above and this one:

What the intent is, is to bring forth the fact that the attitudes that Batty has mentioned has a negative impact on the way new players may view our community. Some players may not realize that though their antagonistic characters may be completely IC for what they are doing, they are not thinking of the OOC considerations that should be shown towards new players or even long time players playing low level characters.

This is an issue that begins and ends with the players themselves. Not with the crew. You can't expect a crew to do nothing but constantly police the server. That is unrealistic and very unfair to them when many of them would prefer to run quests. The crew also needs to have fun with DMing as well. Otherwise, why bother?

Would it really be that hard for the player base to simply take it elsewhere? Or to alter their character's behaviors for the OOC benefit of the server community?

If it is so difficult to do so then FRC has a bigger case of MeItus then I originally thought. People come here to have fun, but they come here to have fun with others. But if those others are so self-centric that they completely ignore basic common courtesy on an OOC level then I don't blame new players logging right off and never coming back again. Heck, I wouldn't blame a long time player for never coming back again.

I made the mistake of letting Sharita wander into Isinhold, and it still more of the same. Most of the chatter was an arguement, and it really made me miss the days when characters would spend more time getting to know other characters, than they spent talking about themselves. And yes, believe it or not, there was such a time. When we could meet people without someone somewhere in earshot having to interject some rude comment.

Yep...really miss those days. These days it feels more like "How many insults will I listen to before logging today? Five? Ten? Just not even go to the town?"

Lately the answer has been: "Don't even log on..."

[johntherevolator]

When I've been in Isinhold recently it seems like people have toned down somewhat since the post was made, like they'd understood it. But if people are still doing it then why do the DMs not tell these few people whom are ruining others fun?

Would be better than simply complaining about it on the forums. Take action, rather then complain if people don't get the point.

Just a thought.

John.

[ShadowCatJen]

May 17, 2008 8:29:54 GMT -5 johntherevolator said:

When I've been in Isinhold recently it seems like people have toned down somewhat since the post was made, like they'd understood it. But if people are still doing it then why do the DMs not tell these few people whom are ruining others fun?

Would be better than simply complaining about it on the forums. Take action, rather then complain if people don't get the point.

Just a thought.

John.

I'm going to have to point out again that we can't expect the DMs to do nothing but constantly police the server for this sort of behavior. If they did nothing but police things then we'll see nothing in the way of DM run quests. I don't' think anyone really wants that.

This is why the plea went out to the community in general. It is taking action by communicating with the server as a whole instead of just nit picking through individual players. By just going to those individual players and warning them off you end up missing the new player who viewed his actions just a half hour before thinking it's okay to behave that way. A month later complaints come up about the new player and the cycle continues.

It all goes back to MeItus. One players actions, be it IC or OOC, can effect everyone else's around them. Even out to players who they normally don't play with. This message had to get out to the full community. It is not a complaint as it is a worry on the first impressions that the behavior can make on potential good new players.

[ancientempathy]

Thank you ShadowCatJen

[johntherevolator]

Well I did say most people seemed to have understood the post and toned down somewhat, but those that persist should be dealt with rather than constantly complaining about it over 5 pages on a forum. I wasn't questioning the post in itself. lol.

Doesn't seem the point to repeat ones self on the forum and pat eachother on the back for repeating it.

Good post, yes. People seem to have done what was asked for the most part. Just saying, if people are still doing it then you should do something or it won't go away will it?

Not everyone reads the forums afterall.

[ShadowCatJen]

May 19, 2008 16:48:45 GMT -5 johntherevolator said:

Not everyone reads the forums afterall.

And this is one of reasons why things are repeated.

It's the same reason why the subject of powergaming/looting comes up time and time again. Or killing your spawns. Or keeping your inventory small to help with lag.

When those players who don't come to read the forums all the time happen to come across a post they might not have seen before then maybe, just maybe, they will see it, read it, and have it sink in.

Time also makes people forget.

Already from what I understand folks are gathering about Isinhold again. This and the other conversation isn't even a few weeks old yet.

So, until people actually get it, some of us are going to sit here and keep crowing about it.

... cause apparently trying to set examples just doesn't work these days.

[johntherevolator]

Yeah, you have a good point.

I know a lot of people have been trying to disperse though, I've seen a lot of people in Suzail lately. Even one or two people passing through Proskur.

But inevitably people are going to go where the roleplay is, which is, as unfortunate as it is in Isinhold. I guess its good to see the new players from time to time to RP with them, especially in euro timezones when not a lot of players are on. (My time) Encourages them to RP rather than get bored, log and not come back or go killing stuff (Powerleveling?). So, in a way you loose out either way.

I'd love for more people to come to Proskur which is where my PC tries to spent time, but, it does become dull when there is little or no roleplay. (I'd try Redmist, but at the moment my character wouldn't go there).

To be honest, lately, I've had three options. Sit and be bored meaning I'll log off. Kill stuff which tends to be boring after a while and log off or go to Isinhold and find people to play with. Sad story I know and probably not everyone is like this, but, its what I've found personally.

I've heard that the DMs are doing things to encourage people to go to these other places though, which should help. One can only hope though ey?

Other than that, the main issue of people been violent. Its almost completely gone now since the post was made. Apart from once and thats because the roleplay waranted is far as I saw.

Don't mean to start an arguement, just thought I'd say my opinion. I know that everyone going to Isnhold pretty much sucks.

[Munroe]

May 20, 2008 15:18:34 GMT -5 ShadowCatJen said:

Already from what I understand folks are gathering about Isinhold again. This and the other conversation isn't even a few weeks old yet.

Gathering around Isinhold is NOT a crime. This thread is about getting people to play maturely in Isinhold and respect that fact that it is a low-level area. People being in Isinhold is not the issue here as I see it, the issue is people of obscene power using Isinhold as their personal verbal battlefield, standing around launching volleys of taunts back and forth, trying to push the other party to fight.

Isinhold has incitement laws in-character, but the laws apparently aren't enough. Isinhold is a starter town. It's the first town in the game where new players meet other players. Their first experience should not be to struggle to find somebody to party with while two epics bicker back and forth. It's the responsibility of the epics to make sure that's not the new player's first experience.

I understand that long-time players have a sense of entitlement. They've been around, it's the server they play, so they think new players should integrate with the "way it is" and "the way it is" is how the long-time players make it. But it's only a sense of entitlement, long-time players aren't entitled to any perks for having more levels on their sheet or more kills under their belts. New players have as much right to play as long-time players, and this thread is not saying long-time players can't be in Isinhold, it's saying to respect the new players in Isinhold and let them be the heroes while they're there. A high level can be in Isinhold easily enough, but a high level shouldn't patronize the efforts of the low levels or overshadow them, or otherwise bully them just because they're new players or low levels. Let the new characters be fresh-faced adventurers working to right the ills of a small town instead of thrusting them into the middle of a battle over module-wide politics.

I'm not saying don't talk about politics in Isinhold, I'm just saying do it maturely, not by yelling back and forth in the square, tossing threats, and trying to kill one another with displays of gross excess.

As for the DMs... Isinhold has incitement laws. If those don't slow down character bickering in-character, then out-of-character actions may follow.

[johntherevolator]

Just a random idea for people to disperse from Isinhold, which is kinda funny really..

Anyone ever thought of removing the -BIG RED- arrows from the starting room that lead to the Isinhold door and the "Isinhold (start here)" Sign.

Why not remove the arrows and the sign and replace all the signs with things like.

"Isinhold level 1-6"
"Redmist level 6-10"

Or something like that... to give people an idea of were they ought to be and it'll show level range so new players won't accidently jump somewhere and go adventuring somewhere far out of their depth.

Just a thought.

[ancientempathy]

Removing the arrows might not be a bad idea, but the sign thing for the levels isn't very nessecary. Majority of the signs next to a door state "For level 10 and up", or something to that effect, already

[johntherevolator]

Ah well, with reading the sign for Isinhold it says "Start Here".. so if people read that they might automatically just go there. So perhaps remove that as well?

[dmimmersion]

The arrows are there for new people to let them know where to go for the starter town and as such will not be removed. Same with the sign.

[Grozer]

Great suggestions but who are these suggestions really for? I mean the arrows, the sign, etc they are to help the NEW player not the person who has been around the server a while. Its never been the goal to discourage players from visiting various city irregardless of level.. at the end of the day the suggestion if for players to just keep in mind their actions in Isinhold and how they treat players. Basically keep everyone's fun in the back of their mind and this takes care of itself.

Yes some people never read the forums, but thats where the community comes into play... and a polite ooc suggestion to the specific player who clearly doesnt understand might be the best course of action. Even if you just tell them to read this thread.... if they dont listen then notifiy a DM. It just doesnt seem that difficult.