|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 5:40:53 GMT -5
With recent events being what they are let's have a conversation. Please keep things civil, and focused on the topic / question at hand.
If you answered NO please comment with what an evil player character adds to your ROLE play (not ROLL play because we know PVP exists) that can not be duplicated with the DMs only playing the bad guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 27, 2020 7:00:27 GMT -5
Is this actually even in question? I am also not sure what 'events' we are talking about.
|
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 27, 2020 7:05:21 GMT -5
My PC is Evil, and has been for over 12 years. He got there through alignment shifts for actions taken, arguably, for the greater good. I think -not- allowing people to play their alignment would be a huge mistake. Forcing retirement or disqualifying characters from redemption? Makes for pretty limiting plotlines that only appeal to a portion of the playerbase. If I was forced into retirement over alignment rules, I would no longer play on FRC, point blank.
|
|
|
|
Post by mandene on Oct 27, 2020 7:07:26 GMT -5
Agreed.
I have no idea about the background of this. If it wasn't for your name, I'd take this for a trolling thread.
|
|
|
|
Post by thayanknight on Oct 27, 2020 7:18:17 GMT -5
With no context on said recent events, I'm unsure why this would even be a poll or something up for question.
|
|
|
|
Post by PhatDorf on Oct 27, 2020 7:20:41 GMT -5
I'd like to know this context, because it's a pretty no-brainer topic otherwise.
Yes, yes they should allow evil characters. Even with context, unless its some world-shattering banger, I stand by that forever.
|
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 7:27:22 GMT -5
My PC is Evil, and has been for over 12 years. He got there through alignment shifts for actions taken, arguably, for the greater good. I think -not- allowing people to play their alignment would be a huge mistake. Forcing retirement or disqualifying characters from redemption? Makes for pretty limiting plotlines that only appeal to a portion of the playerbase. If I was forced into retirement over alignment rules, I would no longer play on FRC, point blank. No one is forcing retirement so let's just nip that in the bud. This is more of a question for the players as a collective especially if they have played both sides. |
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Oct 27, 2020 7:27:48 GMT -5
The Red Emperor is Evil so I vote yes?
|
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 7:28:32 GMT -5
I'd like to know this context, because it's a pretty no-brainer topic otherwise. Yes, yes they should allow evil characters. Even with context, unless its some world-shattering banger, I stand by that forever. Aren't world-shattering bangers usually started by evil characters? I'm thinking of the recent Infinity War movie as an example. This would be a good conversation outside of this poll. |
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 7:28:52 GMT -5
Agreed. I have no idea about the background of this. If it wasn't for your name, I'd take this for a trolling thread. Not trolling. Asking a serious question. |
|
|
|
Post by PhatDorf on Oct 27, 2020 7:29:45 GMT -5
I strongly feel like you're just pitching some agenda here, or having a massive brain-fart.
the playing of Evil PCs, and Conflicting PCs - Because that's what this is really about I suspect - and you don't have to be on other ends of a 3x3 grid to have healthy conflict is an integral part to a lot of role play and character development, especially with how fast characters on FRC advance into their higher levels and dungeons aren't the core focus of play, instead focusing on the political game and such.
So, again without context - no-brainer, yes they should be allowed, why are we talking about it?
You want to explore the reasons WHY they are healthy?
|
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 7:33:37 GMT -5
I strongly feel like you're just pitching some agenda here, or having a massive brain-fart. the playing of Evil PCs, and Conflicting PCs - Because that's what this is really about I suspect - and you don't have to be on other ends of a 3x3 grid to have healthy conflict is an integral part to a lot of role play and character development, especially with how fast characters on FRC advance into their higher levels and dungeons aren't the core focus of play, instead focusing on the political game and such. So, again without context - nobrainer, yes they should be allowed, why are we talking about i? You want to explore the reasons WHY they are healthy? I'm not sure why you're going in this direction. I'm just asking a question, and wanting conversation. Nothing more. Let's avoid derailing please. No agenda is being "pitched". |
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 27, 2020 7:35:22 GMT -5
My PC is Evil, and has been for over 12 years. He got there through alignment shifts for actions taken, arguably, for the greater good. I think -not- allowing people to play their alignment would be a huge mistake. Forcing retirement or disqualifying characters from redemption? Makes for pretty limiting plotlines that only appeal to a portion of the playerbase. If I was forced into retirement over alignment rules, I would no longer play on FRC, point blank. No one is forcing retirement so let's just nip that in the bud. This is more of a question for the players as a collective especially if they have played both sides. If this was made a rule, it would minimum grandfather in evil existing characters and slowly phase out alignment options to a point. Based on the long standing full allowance of the alignment grid I don't even think it should be considered. Your characters alignment is your business to disclose or not disclose. |
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Oct 27, 2020 7:35:23 GMT -5
I like the fact that when you play against an evil PC in a plot you know they’re not creating a plot that’s intended for you to win, so the danger of defeat is real, and nobody is overturning it with free raises if your character dies so you can continue on the predetermined track. The fact the danger is “real” means the victory and accomplishment are real, too, if you win. To me, conflict role play and battles against evil PC’s are the most fun moments I’ve ever had on this and other servers, even over DM plots (which I’ve also enjoyed a lot, please don’t misunderstand) because of the fact they’re actually trying to succeed, and nobody is calling it back if they do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Oct 27, 2020 7:35:59 GMT -5
With recent events being what they are let's have a conversation. This implies something. What events? |
|
|
|
Post by PhatDorf on Oct 27, 2020 7:36:57 GMT -5
I'd just like some context that you claimed to have, please.
For the conversation -
I've played years of a good aligned PC whos conflict with an evil PC sparked the next 8 years of their journey, and had conflicts with others along the way, from PvP to other forms.
I'm currently playing an evil druid, who's entire outlook is very opposed to many others and I enjoy discussing that with people in-character, theres no actual killing or harming - just conflicting ideologies.
I think all of that is incredibly healthy and good potential roleplay.
|
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 27, 2020 7:37:45 GMT -5
In all fairness I think people are just a little alarmed to even see discussion about the possibility of not allowing, IMO what has made FRC roleplay the best many have ever been involved in.
As a former DM for FRC, I am not sure those voting yes realize just who they are voting against. Being evil sometimes means that you are that evil that exists to destroy other evils. Being evil in and of it's self, does not make you the enemy of good aligned characters. Lots of characters you wouldn't necessarily suspect of being evil are, or at least were, evil. Not everyone advances through levels quickly, I can think of 2 PCs on FRC who have been pretty much roleplay advancement only. The majority does, but not everyone. A world of only good guys where bad guys are always DM puppeted just seems incredibly dull and limiting. It also bars some prestige classes perma.
|
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Oct 27, 2020 7:58:51 GMT -5
I like the fact that when you play against an evil PC in a plot you know they’re not creating a plot that’s intended for you to win, so the danger of defeat is real, and nobody is overturning it with free raises if your character dies so you can continue on the predetermined track. The fact the danger is “real” means the victory and accomplishment are real, too, if you win. To me, conflict role play and battles against evil PC’s are the most fun moments I’ve ever had on this and other servers, even over DM plots (which I’ve also enjoyed a lot, please don’t misunderstand) because of the fact they’re actually trying to succeed, and nobody is calling it back if they do. That's not completely true.. when you play against an evil PC and you play on the side of the crown.. you know you will always win. The crown never loses no matter the amount evil PCS would put into an event. there hasn't even been temporary loses for the crown for ages. you know they will always come out on the safe end. Most of the DM plots recently has been start-middle event-end player driven Roll play hasn't been able to derail these events. no matter the effort. This is of course just my observations from the side that always loses and never gets a win. not even a part ''win'' which would be nice.. for evil chars the consequence of losing means you lose your char, so when you enter events and can't even get small wins that makes it fun for you. the over all picture of ''IF'' evil players should be allowed should more be a question about What do the evil PC's get out of enter Dm plots and events to flavor it up..  Again just my perspective as i have pretty much always been on the losing side.. and i can't really recall we ever got a single ''win'' and in a Win i don't mean we take over everything and rule with an iron fist.. never gonna happen so forget it. but small wins. *shrugs* And I properly shouldn't have written this. |
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Oct 27, 2020 8:00:12 GMT -5
I'd just like some context that you claimed to have, please. For the conversation - I've played years of a good aligned PC whos conflict with an evil PC sparked the next 8 years of their journey, and had conflicts with others along the way, from PvP to other forms. I'm currently playing an evil druid, who's entire outlook is very opposed to many others and I enjoy discussing that with people in-character, theres no actual killing or harming - just conflicting ideologies. I think all of that is incredibly healthy and good potential roleplay. Granted.. PC vs PC roll play some of the best I've ever had was between different alignment.. |
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 8:06:06 GMT -5
I like the fact that when you play against an evil PC in a plot you know they’re not creating a plot that’s intended for you to win, so the danger of defeat is real, and nobody is overturning it with free raises if your character dies so you can continue on the predetermined track. The fact the danger is “real” means the victory and accomplishment are real, too, if you win. To me, conflict role play and battles against evil PC’s are the most fun moments I’ve ever had on this and other servers, even over DM plots (which I’ve also enjoyed a lot, please don’t misunderstand) because of the fact they’re actually trying to succeed, and nobody is calling it back if they do. That's not completely true.. when you play against an evil PC and you play on the side of the crown.. you know you will always win. The crown never loses no matter the amount evil PCS would put into an event. there hasn't even been temporary loses for the crown for ages. you know they will always come out on the safe end. Most of the DM plots recently has been start-middle event-end player driven Roll play hasn't been able to derail these events. no matter the effort. This is of course just my observations from the side that always loses and never gets a win. not even a part ''win'' which would be nice.. for evil chars the consequence of losing means you lose your char, so when you enter events and can't even get small wins that makes it fun for you. the over all picture of ''IF'' evil players should be allowed should more be a question about What do the evil PC's get out of enter Dm plots and events to flavor it up.. Again just my perspective as i have pretty much always been on the losing side.. and i can't really recall we ever got a single ''win'' and in a Win i don't mean we take over everything and rule with an iron fist.. never gonna happen so forget it. but small wins. *shrugs* And I properly shouldn't have written this. If you hide what you honestly feel about something, even if it's just a misunderstanding (which I'm not saying this is just stay with me here), it can hamper your enjoyment. This goes for any hobby not just FRC or even D&D. Thoughts like this should open up healthy, and civil, dialogue and not get reactionary comments from those who feel something is being taken away (IT'S NOT, btw). We all spend as much of our free time here as we are willing to give, and if something is happening (or has happened) that is causing an issue with that enjoyment then it should be discussed to iron things out. Having this poll to get a sense of how collectively the players feel is a step in that direction, although from a macro level view. This isn't about me (nor will it ever be), and is more focused on us as a collective. Now...back to voting / conversing. |
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 27, 2020 8:07:01 GMT -5
I like the fact that when you play against an evil PC in a plot you know they’re not creating a plot that’s intended for you to win, so the danger of defeat is real, and nobody is overturning it with free raises if your character dies so you can continue on the predetermined track. The fact the danger is “real” means the victory and accomplishment are real, too, if you win. To me, conflict role play and battles against evil PC’s are the most fun moments I’ve ever had on this and other servers, even over DM plots (which I’ve also enjoyed a lot, please don’t misunderstand) because of the fact they’re actually trying to succeed, and nobody is calling it back if they do. That's not completely true.. when you play against an evil PC and you play on the side of the crown.. you know you will always win. The crown never loses no matter the amount evil PCS would put into an event. there hasn't even been temporary loses for the crown for ages. you know they will always come out on the safe end. Most of the DM plots recently has been start-middle event-end player driven Roll play hasn't been able to derail these events. no matter the effort. This is of course just my observations from the side that always loses and never gets a win. not even a part ''win'' which would be nice.. for evil chars the consequence of losing means you lose your char, so when you enter events and can't even get small wins that makes it fun for you. the over all picture of ''IF'' evil players should be allowed should more be a question about What do the evil PC's get out of enter Dm plots and events to flavor it up.. Again just my perspective as i have pretty much always been on the losing side.. and i can't really recall we ever got a single ''win'' and in a Win i don't mean we take over everything and rule with an iron fist.. never gonna happen so forget it. but small wins. *shrugs* And I properly shouldn't have written this. The Crown absolutely takes losses. We spent a good period of FRCs history in a period where the nation was completely divided and territory the crown owned was a new state. Eventually this area was brought back into the fold as sort of a campaign reset, but it doesn't change the fact that the crown took a heavy loss that lasted years. The Obarskyr Dynasty has lasted like 1000 years and rarely has the DM Team really had to unleash even part of the might that upholds them. The War Wizards are underused intentionally to allow evil PCs to exist and operate. |
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 8:10:31 GMT -5
That's not completely true.. when you play against an evil PC and you play on the side of the crown.. you know you will always win. The crown never loses no matter the amount evil PCS would put into an event. there hasn't even been temporary loses for the crown for ages. you know they will always come out on the safe end. Most of the DM plots recently has been start-middle event-end player driven Roll play hasn't been able to derail these events. no matter the effort. This is of course just my observations from the side that always loses and never gets a win. not even a part ''win'' which would be nice.. for evil chars the consequence of losing means you lose your char, so when you enter events and can't even get small wins that makes it fun for you. the over all picture of ''IF'' evil players should be allowed should more be a question about What do the evil PC's get out of enter Dm plots and events to flavor it up.. Again just my perspective as i have pretty much always been on the losing side.. and i can't really recall we ever got a single ''win'' and in a Win i don't mean we take over everything and rule with an iron fist.. never gonna happen so forget it. but small wins. *shrugs* And I properly shouldn't have written this. The Crown absolutely takes losses. We spent a good period of FRCs history in a period where the nation was completely divided and territory the crown owned was a new state. Eventually this area was brought back into the fold as sort of a campaign reset, but it doesn't change the fact that the crown took a heavy loss that lasted years. The Obarskyr Dynasty has lasted like 1000 years and rarely has the DM Team really had to unleash even part of the might that upholds them. The War Wizards are underused intentionally to allow evil PCs to exist and operate. Then provide examples of what evil PCs own that used to belong to the Crown, that the Crown has not been able to take back. Again I'm not wanting this thread to derail, but it seems to be heading that way. |
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Oct 27, 2020 8:11:20 GMT -5
The Crown absolutely takes losses. We spent a good period of FRCs history in a period where the nation was completely divided and territory the crown owned was a new state. Eventually this area was brought back into the fold as sort of a campaign reset, but it doesn't change the fact that the crown took a heavy loss that lasted years. The Obarskyr Dynasty has lasted like 1000 years and rarely has the DM Team really had to unleash even part of the might that upholds them. The War Wizards are underused intentionally to allow evil PCs to exist and operate. Then provide examples of what evil PCs own that used to belong to the Crown, that the Crown has not been able to take back. Again I'm not wanting this thread to derail, but it seems to be heading that way. Hilp is still a ruin no? |
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 8:12:43 GMT -5
Then provide examples of what evil PCs own that used to belong to the Crown, that the Crown has not been able to take back. Again I'm not wanting this thread to derail, but it seems to be heading that way. Hilp is still a ruin no? Being in ruin, and controlling territory are two vastly different things. |
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Oct 27, 2020 8:12:56 GMT -5
The question answer from your side is not really in debate Churse of Bane. Yes evil players should be allowed to play. simple as that.. but thats not really what this post is about. we all know alot of things has happend on the server for a while that push's evil players to leave the server for good.. or take long breaks. thats what this issue is truly about. if you ask me... the answer to your question is a rather simple one. as there is no ground or reson why you shouldn't be able to play an evil alligment PC.
|
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 27, 2020 8:12:59 GMT -5
Then provide examples of what evil PCs own that used to belong to the Crown, that the Crown has not been able to take back. Again I'm not wanting this thread to derail, but it seems to be heading that way. Hilp is still a ruin no? Any evil aligned guildhall or player group HQ. |
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Oct 27, 2020 8:13:48 GMT -5
Then provide examples of what evil PCs own that used to belong to the Crown, that the Crown has not been able to take back. Again I'm not wanting this thread to derail, but it seems to be heading that way. Hilp is still a ruin no? as far as i recall Hilp was not done by evil PC.. but by Dm written stories, or pre written forgotten realms stories. |
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 27, 2020 8:15:26 GMT -5
Evil sometimes is on the side of the crown. Evil being divided is one of the long standing philosophical reasons it does not succeed.
|
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Oct 27, 2020 8:17:16 GMT -5
Evil sometimes is on the side of the crown. Evil being divided is one of the long standing philosophical reasons it does not succeed. Yet if events was completly player driven Roll play. you would see the evil side win alot more.. but its not |
|
|
|
Post by Church of Bane on Oct 27, 2020 8:17:33 GMT -5
Evil sometimes is on the side of the crown. Evil being divided is one of the long standing philosophical reasons it does not succeed. Finally something I can agree with. 100% correct. Hell this can't be anymore correct than what it is. Nor should it...at least not to the extent where everyone is complacent and compromises what that player wants from their character. However I feel evil is more divided than good is divided. One would think the differences between Lawful Good, and Chaotic Neutral would be far wider, but it doesn't seem to be. This could be due to the nature of us individually as people (we generally do not want to commit evil acts irl), or something else entirely, however my agreement still stands. |
|
