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Post by Munroe on Mar 4, 2008 14:17:45 GMT -5
I like rolling sometimes just to suggest how convincingly my character said something. It's just that "The dragon is coming! WE all need to get out of here!" can be convincing or not. The exact same thing said with different tone, expression, and inflection can be read several different ways. Sometimes actually rolling helps give someone some idea of that beyond just the words.
To use an example from very recently, Lydia was talking about how big her puffy pants were. Someone jokingly said that a hin could live in them. She then began to insist (outrageously) that there were currently two hin living in them while she was wearing them. It was an outrageous claim and I didn't expect anyone to believe it, but I rolled Bluff anyway just to give an idea of her delivery of the claim.
(Unfortunately, people who failed their counter-rolls kept looking at her pants oddly. That was not my intent.)
As for persuade, I usually reserve it for use against NPCs but I might also roll it if Lydia were giving some kind of sermon, again just to represent her delivery, must the same way I roll perform when she's playing an instrument. I suppose I could roll perform for a sermon (perform: oratory) but persuade is a class skill for clerics so I figure that's why.
Of course as SCJen said, persuade is also Diplomacy in NWN. In fact, the reason Persuade doesn't come up much in discussions may have something to do with the fact that Persuade isn't a D&D skill. The D&D skill is Diplomacy but Bioware felt the need to rename it. Diplomacy checks also concern things like etiquette. So a dinner hostess might potentially make a diplomacy check to convince her guests that she's following the proper etiquette and treating them properly, and giving them all the correct forks at that fancy place setting. This use has some overlap with Knowledge skills.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Mar 4, 2008 14:37:25 GMT -5
Well, unfortunately Persuade in NWN apparently also covers Diplomacy. *le sigh* Skills are similar, but much different in implementation, IMO. What's the difference between Persuade and Diplomacy that you allude to? I've always thought the terms more or less interchangable, that Persuade was just NWN's equivelent of PnP's Diplomacy. With Persuade in NWN it's really more pertaining to either getting the NPC to either give more information or more of a reward from them (Mind I'm basing this just on the OC terms). And isn't so much used to changing an NPCs whole attitude. With Diplomacy in PnP it can include being persuasive, but it deals more with actually changing the way someone looks at things. More of a "bigger scale" deal then just getting more of a reward. More like convincing the nobleman that it's in his best political interests to have his small army aid your cause. It eludes that you have some knowledge of the local political structure instead of just simply being "charming". I know it's kind of a fine line thing, but a person who is charming (Persuade) might not be able to convince that nobleman as well as someone who's had training in royal court (Diplomacy).
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Mar 4, 2008 14:39:16 GMT -5
Of course as SCJen said, persuade is also Diplomacy in NWN. In fact, the reason Persuade doesn't come up much in discussions may have something to do with the fact that Persuade isn't a D&D skill. The D&D skill is Diplomacy but Bioware felt the need to rename it. Diplomacy checks also concern things like etiquette. So a dinner hostess might potentially make a diplomacy check to convince her guests that she's following the proper etiquette and treating them properly, and giving them all the correct forks at that fancy place setting. This use has some overlap with Knowledge skills. *points* He said it better then I did.
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JCrux
Old School
Posts: 603
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Post by JCrux on Mar 4, 2008 14:59:58 GMT -5
I like ShadowCatJen's examples for persuade checks. I'll add a 'real game' example from last night when I could have (should have?) called for a persuade check.
Jake Jarcy approached Dante asking to barter for him for a small cut of the profit. Dante doesn't know Jake, so he was torn between greed and trust. Would Jake get him more money than he could on his own, and would Jake steal from him? Dante was on the fence trying to decide. Looking back on it I should have asked for a persuade vs. will roll. The die result could have resulted in actions like this.
Will wins: no deal Persuade wins by 1-5 points: Dante gives Jake roughly half the items to sell. (A test of sorts) Persuade wins by 6+ points: Dante gives all to Jake to barter for him.
Why didn't I ask? For one, I'm just not used to asking for die rolls as much as I should be. Secondly, I'll claim I was distracted by the strange woman in the weird dress with the blue mummy wrappings around her head.
As a side note, I think rolls like this work best when characters/players are indecisive and the PCs action isn't a 'given.'
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mastersenge
Old School
[orange]Player Advocate[/orange] Scoutmaster of Evil Scouts Troop 1372
"I can't brain today. I've got the dumb."
Posts: 516
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Post by mastersenge on Mar 5, 2008 3:14:29 GMT -5
I have been avoiding posting in this because people seem to have said it all already. BUT.... Tonight Alino is walking around in plane priest robe with a hood all in blue and says nothing to anyone. Yet he is called out by people and somehow identified. In tells it was said that the guy that walked by "smelled like" Alino. Correct me if I am wrong please but that is in no way... i mean it just is a poor excuse really for identifying someone in plane clothes that hasnt even been interracting with anyone and then also identified without even asking for a a roll. This post may be pointless being that the people involved obviously dont read the forums but I just had to post it. The problem was taken care of I hope. I dont know what was said after all the tells because i wasnt in the area any more but i hope all just ignored the entire thing. Please though I dont mind and will gladly play along if there is some reason to be identified or whatever and will gladly implode anyone that does make out his disguise but please people keep it all IC.
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Post by Munroe on Mar 5, 2008 10:18:49 GMT -5
I have been avoiding posting in this because people seem to have said it all already. BUT.... Tonight Alino is walking around in plane priest robe with a hood all in blue and says nothing to anyone. Yet he is called out by people and somehow identified. In tells it was said that the guy that walked by "smelled like" Alino. Correct me if I am wrong please but that is in no way... i mean it just is a poor excuse really for identifying someone in plane clothes that hasnt even been interracting with anyone and then also identified without even asking for a a roll. This post may be pointless being that the people involved obviously dont read the forums but I just had to post it. The problem was taken care of I hope. I dont know what was said after all the tells because i wasnt in the area any more but i hope all just ignored the entire thing. Please though I dont mind and will gladly play along if there is some reason to be identified or whatever and will gladly implode anyone that does make out his disguise but please people keep it all IC. Player characters don't have the Scent ability (nope, not even RDDs or druids), so should not be automatically identifying characters by scent. (The exception to this would be for characters that constantly emote their odour, like the guy in bright silver armour who smells of rotting flesh and lavender.) Even if a necromancer smells of bones or carrion, (and if he's in disguise, I would hope he bathed), a person without the scent ability would have to be standing on top of him to notice. Druids may have the Scent ability while in Wild Shape (depending on form) but even then the range is only 30 ft. (or 60 ft./15 ft. if upwind/downwind, which would require a DM to call really). Strong and overpowering scents have greater ranges. A creature with Scent ability only knows the odour is present, not the direction. Determining direction is a move action. The scent is not pinpointed until within five feet of it. (Scent ability is detailed in Monster Manual 3.5e, pg. 314.)
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mastersenge
Old School
[orange]Player Advocate[/orange] Scoutmaster of Evil Scouts Troop 1372
"I can't brain today. I've got the dumb."
Posts: 516
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Post by mastersenge on Mar 5, 2008 11:11:48 GMT -5
Come to think of it there was a time when phelz made alino go take a bath because of the stink but that was a while ago. Alino is a cleaner fella these days hahah.
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