Dont ignore skill checks please.

[Deleted]

and yes there has to be some familiarity to it. But lets be specific, Entori has seen and heard Rannan. His height weight, voice, his charismatic nature. you change a few colors and wear a different set of cloths its not going to do much to convince me its not Rannan thus I want a bluff check. Why? well its rannan, and not cause the floaty name says so, because someone about his heightand weight entered into town and is speaking

I believe the problem comes when the check is asked for before said character has done anything accept lean against a wall...Which does happen and is very irritating and annoying...and i am sorry, but looking at someones height, yes this may lead to slight suspicion, but as has already been said there are x amount of un-represented persons wandering through isinhold...another thing, Elvewyn has spent alot of time of Ranan, talking, travelling etc etc, as has Edward and vice versa...and even we rp not knowing the other if he is in disguise...]/Quote]

now say that person (forget rannan could be anyone, for argument sake lets say I don't know who it is) has his hood up on a bright beautiful day AND has a mask, so hes hiding something, then lest say someone asks why hes got his hood up. I've heard retorts along the lines of "o my face was marred with acid" I mean to me.. THATS suspicious! I agree if the characters have never been together before a guy can't just say Hey thats person X.

Correct me if i am wrong Don, but what i am getting from this is that someone claiming they have a grotesque physical ailment which they are conscious of and do not wish to be shown is suspicious? If this is the case then look at Elvewyn...he almost constantly wears a hood because of a certain someone mutilating his ears...he is extremely conscious of this and tells people who ask that is the reason he is wearing a hood...

suspicion noun [C or U]
a feeling or belief that someone has committed a crime or done something wrong:
"I'm arresting you on suspicion of illegally possessing drugs, " said the police officer.
MAINLY UK She is under suspicion of murder.
In this particular case, they are above/beyond suspicion (= cannot be thought to be guilty).
His strange behaviour aroused/raised his neighbours' suspicions.

suspicious adjective
making you feel that something illegal is happening or that something is wrong:
Her behavior was very suspicious (AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH INFORMAL suss).
The fire at the bank is being treated as suspicious.
It's a bit suspicious that no one knows where he was at the time of the murder.
There were some suspicious characters hanging around outside.
There's a suspicious-looking van parked at the end of the road.
His new book bears a suspicious resemblance to a book written by someone else (= His book is so similar to the other book that it seems as if he has copied it).

suspiciously adverb
The officers noticed two men acting suspiciously (= as if they were doing something wrong) in a car.
Quoted from dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=80330&dict=CALD

...And according to these definitions, he is not suspicious, as he has never tried to hide his true intentions.

So if you're a familiar aquantince... and are trying to be disguised... and are actively interacting with the people who know you.... and you refuse a requested bluff check... again, I'm tossing my assumption of a natural one. Why? Its because people aren't stupid... If Aria looks at torgeir in a robe... she's still going to pick up on a 7foot giant with a huge greatsword and think "Torgeir" face visible or no.

Heh, yer i agree with this, but if his greatsword isn't visible and his face not seen and he isn't talking...you ahv eno reason to beleive it is torgeir. Which people have requested from me, and i am sure from Ranan aswell (At least that is what i think he is saying) before there is any real reason for a bluff check to be made...

~Sioladuil

[EDM Entori]

but you see disguises are an act. a lie and hiding the truth, someone with an ailment is not suspicous cause you can tell without a fact they are ill. Someone trying to fake it though, you know.

and Torgier as described is 7 feet tall, robe or no robe, face covered or no great sword. Chances are every adventurer in cormyr knows its him.

and lets talk about isinhold your talking of a little village of tens of people. Small community, anyone hiding their ways in a small community (even of hundreds and modern day) are treated with suspicon.

and like i said before hooded in one thing 'hooded and masked' another.

and it depends on the character, some creepy guy sits outside a square hooded just watching people no matter what time and age, I would consider it suspicous, to me hoods are trying to hide something, and trying to hide something means you have something to hide.

its like running from the cops, pretty much as good as admitting your guilty for something (or mildly dimwitted).

now suzial or redmist you may get away with it due to the immense crowd of commoners thats supposedly there. big cities are easier to slip through, and go unnoticed. However, would you consider stealthing in the open in big cities fine then? emoting slipping through the crowd?

and being in disguise your attempting to mislead, (hooded is different I'll agree) but my opinion is that you as a player when disguised, have to prove your not yourself. mainly cause, well firstly people do meta game sometimes, accidents happen. So it eliminates that, secondly you are acting that your not yourself, going against your own instincts and normal movements to prove to others you are not you. Especially if someone has an slight idea your misleading them, thus why I beleive bluff checks are important.

Rannan was an example because he is the BE all End all evilly guy.

But like i said, person X works fine.

[Deleted]

and being in disguise your attempting to mislead, (hooded is different I'll agree) but my opinion is that you as a player when disguised, have to prove your not yourself. mainly cause, well firstly people do meta game sometimes, accidents happen. So it eliminates that, secondly you are acting that your not yourself, going against your own instincts and normal movements to prove to others you are not you. Especially if someone has an slight idea your misleading them, thus why I beleive bluff checks are important.

Again i do not agree with this, a bluff is only valid if the person in disguise has interacted, if he is just leaning against a wall and not talking then no roll is required.

~Sioladuil

[dmimmersion]

Some basics I personally beleive

Also, if you are out-bluffed, dont look for every little nit pick to roll some other check. If your character has no reason to be suspicoius, why would he/she/it be constantly trying to find any misplaced detail?

Correct.. you get the one chance to beat the bluff and if you dont, they win for that encounter and people should respect that. You dont get multiple chances to save against Finger of Death. You either win or lose, same here.

Agreed, but at the same time it goes without saying that there needs to be some basis for requesting the check. Just because you as a player think/know something is up is NOT fair premise to ask another player to make a bluff check. In a simple example just because we pass each other on the road and character A is completely disguised does not give character B valid justification to request a bluff check even if character B is intimately familar with character A.

Correct - A valid reason must be had. A person walking up with a hood on is NOT a valid reason to call for a disguise check. Hoods are common in the realms and them being worn all the time, even in hot weather, is not a reason to be suspicious.

Want to throw something else in here, i have walked into towns many a time in disguise and not said anything or done anything apart from lean against a wall, but yet most people in the town clam up, or instantly start treating me with suspicion even though they have no real reason to know who it is. And this isn't just paranois, there have been times when i have walked into a town, leant against a wall, and everyone clams up, then i recieve tells saying wow, it is amazing how quickly everyone shuts up even thoguh you are in disguise...alright, rant over, my point is this...give consideration...just because the floatign name says who it is does not mean you would know IC.

I call this pure metagaming plain and simple. There is NO justifiable reason conversations that were occuring out in the open in normal tones before someone in a hood showed up should all of a sudden be taken to whispers. There are MANY unrepresented NPCs constantly coming and going and if you arent whispering cause of them, how can you justify starting to whisper cause a PC with a hood on all of a sudden walks into the area.

If you don't bother to emote you're in disguise... then its pretty safe to assume you took a natural one... unless its a known practice of the PC. Veshal for example folks would just assume was in disguise because of months of him emoting "*deep rough voice*" infront of everything he said. Elve isnt known for being slick.... so folks probably aren't assuming he's in disguise... particularly if its something he's typically seen in but in a different color....

Except for a few clothes whores, most people have a couple outfits they wear all the time. If they arent in those outfits, they are assumed to be in disguise.. especially if they have a hood on. A non descript robe and hood isnt going to reveal hardly anything at all as identifiable

Which brings me to another point, there have been times when i have been stalking another PC, they have entered a building or something else which gives the same kind of privacy, i have entered after them, and then suddenly nearly everyone in the area decides to go and check on them., even though the disguise was emoted etc, etc.

Sometimes this is justified. If you have been standing around doing nothing and a new person enters the picture and all of a sudden you follow them, that could be called suspicious.

OR -you- can send a tell to be certain

Cant say this enough... send that tell to ask before doing anything. It is easy enough to do and the person recieving the tell will be thankful for your consideration

everyone else should roll bluff too, just privately. Then you take it from there, in tells did you match or exceed bluffing characters? by how much, would you know its him, or just think something is 'fishy' what is the disguised pc trying to accomplish, can you some way add to the Rp without ruining his?

If they havent done anything suspicious, then you have no reason to roll even a private check. And talking in a raspy voice or wearing a hood isnt a reason to be suspicious. Why would a raspy voice give reason to be suspicious... maybe they lost their voice, maybe they are sick. Now.. if you are abby or someone that frequently in the past has shown IC actions of assisting sick people, if you went up to offer help to cure that nasty sounding voice and had a high enough heal check you might figure out after eximaning them if they allowed it that there is nothing wrong.. in a case such as this.. I would think calling for the bluff to see if they are faking it would be acceptable. But that STILL only tells you whether or not they are faking.. not who they are unless the examine was intensive enough that in the process you would see there face or hace a chance to spot the disguise.

But to my opinion every time your character lies, there should be a bluff check, just to see that hes noticeably lying through his teeth.

Nope. Big lies maybe if there is a reason to, but everytime.. that is unrealistic.

I don't assume everyone who's hooded is in disguise, but I can *usually* guess when someone is trying to wear a disguise because they will be wearing different clothes and so on.

95% of the people on the server have at the most three sets of clothes. How do I know this.. I look at inventories all the time. If you see someone in something other than they normally wear, while they may not necissarily be in disguise, the fact of the matter is you probably arent going to recognize them unless their face is showing and they are talking.

if ent walks into town with his hood up,A he was traveling and it hasn't come down yet, b its night and its chillin/ C its raining. There are practical reasons for having a hood up, if those don't exist, my hoods down, there are characters who have their hoods up all the time, but I think thats unrealistic and think that if their hoods up like that, you can see their face.

Just because you think it is unrealistic.. doenst mean it is. The fact of the matter is if someone has a hood up it is up to the player wondering if their face can be seen to send a tell asking. DO NOT ASSUME you can see their face.

height weight, voice, his charismatic nature. you change a few colors and wear a different set of cloths its not going to do much to convince me its not Rannan thus I want a bluff check

problem is alot of times he probably hasnt said of done anything and he is getting the tell for the bluff check. Just walking into view isnt enough of a reason to call for the check.

So if you're a familiar aquantince... and are trying to be disguised... and are actively interacting with the people who know you.... and you refuse a requested bluff check... again, I'm tossing my assumption of a natural one. Why? Its because people aren't stupid... If Aria looks at torgeir in a robe... she's still going to pick up on a 7foot giant with a huge greatsword and think "Torgeir" face visible or no.

The problem isnt when you are dealing with familair acquantinces, the problem is when dealing with people you ARENT familiar with. Familiarity comes from frequent and prolonged interaction in a comfortable setting. Would Aria recognize Torgier.. probably. Why? She has been around him alot and has picked up the subtle nuancies that make up torgiers personality and mannerisms. The same cant be said for someone she has only spoken to rarely or fought a few times.

[ShadowCatJen]

Pardon me if I come off as a little snarky here, but...

I've had Myn go about disguised several times. Been out in the open Isinhold market, speaking using what (for her) is a fake accent, acting not like Myn...

... yet never, and I mean never have I ever been asked to make any bluff/perform/whatever rolls. Ever.

So I need to ask the community that if this is such an important thing why haven't I been asked? If characters who are supposedly "well known" need to be making rolls like this, or emoting constantly that they are not speaking in their normal voices, why not mine?

Now, maybe I'm overestimating how well known my character is and if I am then I'll retract my question. Till then, I'm going to ask people why not?

Granted, I've had the opposite happen where I've done all the emotes, had her in disguise, and not had Myn act like Myn and have someone just come up and say "Ah, Miss Copperhand, how are you?" Without a single tell or even an emote of suspicion. The person was corrected and he took back his greeting, but still blatantly ignoring any efforts I was making made me feel cheated.

More to the actual topic:

Tells solve a lot with initial reactions. It's easy enough to just ask OOCly if someone is in disguise. A good general rule of thumb to have is if the PC is wearing a hood ask if their face is visible. I'll do this with any character in a hood, "friend" or "foe".

And, as Manshin was originally trying to point out, don't ignore when you are substantially whipped with the dice roll. Once you've lost the roll, don't try to ask for more rolls every time the character speaks or does an action.

[EDM Entori]

I'll agree with immersion there, that hoods are not -Alone- suspicous..

But a character in disguise, needs to be able to act in disguise to, and again I am talking about characters I am familiar with.

IMHO if you don't roll straight out to show me your a good actor, I know your misleading at the least.


let me clairify... I am not saying I know who the person is, but some random person can't just walk into town 'disguised'. Without no one noticing if he can't act worth it. I can walk around in a ronald mcdonald costume and people will still know its me, and if they are unfamiliar with me, they know I suck at acting. Thats all I'm saying, is that if your going to disguise yourself be prepared to be asked if so and if so by a roll. Otherwise anyone could disguise themselves and follow anyone around without any points at all.

and as for invisible NPC's I believe that depends on where you are located.

anyways thats my opinion, but if what immersion stated above is a ruling, then well I guess I'll attempt to follow that to the letter, or just avoid the situations all together

[EDM Entori]

sioladuil said:

and being in disguise your attempting to mislead, (hooded is different I'll agree) but my opinion is that you as a player when disguised, have to prove your not yourself. mainly cause, well firstly people do meta game sometimes, accidents happen. So it eliminates that, secondly you are acting that your not yourself, going against your own instincts and normal movements to prove to others you are not you. Especially if someone has an slight idea your misleading them, thus why I beleive bluff checks are important.

Again i do not agree with this, a bluff is only valid if the person in disguise has interacted, if he is just leaning against a wall and not talking then no roll is required.

~Sioladuil

yeah thats fair, unless your doing more then leaning against the wall but that would be emoted by you the player

[dmimmersion]

well.. there is also the matter that being is disguise and being incognito are two completly different things.

being in disguise is trying to pass yourself off as someone else.. that involves speech, body movement, etc. Calling for a bluff check in these cases is easier as they are trying to convince you in an active way

Being incognito is an entirely different beast.. all you are doing is hiding your features by wearing non descript clothes and a hood that covers your face. Most times trying to be this means you are trying not to draw undue attention to yourself by being queit and not interacting with others. Calling for a bluff check in these instances are MUCH harder to justify as the act of being quiet and not having features seen isnt as outward of an action as in the case above involving the disguise.


And no. this is not an official ruling.. as I said in the first line of my summary post.. these are my personal opinions.. if it was a DM ruling.. that would have been stated.

The DM rulings already exists and say you need to have a valid reason for the bluff check and that wearing a hood is not a valid reason in and of it self.

[dmimmersion]

Pardon me if I come off as a little snarky here, but...

I've had Myn go about disguised several times. Been out in the open Isinhold market, speaking using what (for her) is a fake accent, acting not like Myn...

... yet never, and I mean never have I ever been asked to make any bluff/perform/whatever rolls. Ever.

So I need to ask the community that if this is such an important thing why haven't I been asked? If characters who are supposedly "well known" need to be making rolls like this, or emoting constantly that they are not speaking in their normal voices, why not mine?

And this is a PRIME example that alot the calls that are requested are requested for metagame reasons. They are only requesting them against people that might be a threat and the only reason they know that.. is that little floaty name.

Ok.. that is a bit harsh. more then should be are being called for metagame reasons.

[EDM Neo]

What exactly does constitute enough interaction to call for a check for someone to keep a disguise up, presuming some familiarity with a person's usual behavior?

[dmimmersion]

for me when I play

seeing someone in a hood - not enough

Seeing someone standing around minding own business - not enough

Seeing someone standing around and start talking in raspy voice to a villager or say hello to someoen that walks by - not enough

Seeing somone standing around, talking to someone that walked by and continueing to talk for a while as if they are comfortable with each other... - Now I might be trying to figure it out by asking my self who the person I do know associates with.

If they talk out loud for a good while.. I will finally call for a bluff/listen check to see if I can identify the voice.. it they are faking it.. a bluff check.

The main thing is that it would take awhile to get your suspicion up. A instant call for a bluff check though, unless they so outlandish in there mannerisms.. just seems totally unrealistic to me.

[SlothfulCat]

shadowcatjen said:

Pardon me if I come off as a little snarky here, but...

I've had Myn go about disguised several times. Been out in the open Isinhold market, speaking using what (for her) is a fake accent, acting not like Myn...

... yet never, and I mean never have I ever been asked to make any bluff/perform/whatever rolls. Ever.

So I need to ask the community that if this is such an important thing why haven't I been asked? If characters who are supposedly "well known" need to be making rolls like this, or emoting constantly that they are not speaking in their normal voices, why not mine?

Now, maybe I'm overestimating how well known my character is and if I am then I'll retract my question. Till then, I'm going to ask people why not?

Granted, I've had the opposite happen where I've done all the emotes, had her in disguise, and not had Myn act like Myn and have someone just come up and say "Ah, Miss Copperhand, how are you?" Without a single tell or even an emote of suspicion. The person was corrected and he took back his greeting, but still blatantly ignoring any efforts I was making made me feel cheated.

More to the actual topic:

Tells solve a lot with initial reactions. It's easy enough to just ask OOCly if someone is in disguise. A good general rule of thumb to have is if the PC is wearing a hood ask if their face is visible. I'll do this with any character in a hood, "friend" or "foe".

And, as Manshin was originally trying to point out, don't ignore when you are substantially whipped with the dice roll. Once you've lost the roll, don't try to ask for more rolls every time the character speaks or does an action.

I've only seen Mynian in a disguise once that I recall... and it was so thoroughly done up visually, and being RPed so well, and being hidden in plain sight as it is.... that I honestly felt knowing my PC, her particular paranoias and suspicions... honestly wouldnt have a slightest reason to look twice at how Mynian was disguised. Now if for example you'd broken out the yartling... maybe.... or if you'd sat there hooded in good old inkblot royale complete with magic staff that would have definately peaked curiosity.

As for incognito.. while Mynian disguised herself.. and wasnt incognito... now PCs who try to be incognito by simply not interacting with anyone and hissing at folks who try to interact with them while in a public hotspot for chatting and meeting folks... well... thats a mite suspicious. What Mynian was doing sitting at that table was a far cry from suspicious. (Nor does it fail to blow my mind how that PC walked up and said "Hello missus Mynian" to you, the same as it would blow my mind if someone had reconized aria in her inkblot-dominatrixesque gettup without looking into her hood.

So heres a question for immersion... hood looking... Generally if you're hooded, and are not obvious about who you are... I emote looking into the hood. If someone wants to buy something from my PC.. they have to show their face... once I've seen your face and can start recognizing PCs on look alone (with aria anyways) without putting the cursor over soemone... thats when I start asking for bluff checks if someone is putting on a show. Normally the response is "He's not disguised". In the past and present, when my PC is actively on the look out for someone... I go out of my way to talk to every hooded person and see whats under that hood. Historically... this is how folks got the "In the name of the crown let down your hood" style encounters. Particularly during the stretch where I was hunting Rodan.

WIth that, heres the question... at what point is it okay to try to see someone's face inside of a hood? ((Aria's even tried to pull Vilith's viel down so this isnt sneaking looks its just simple blatant looking))

[Grozer]

shadowcatjen said:

Pardon me if I come off as a little snarky here, but...

I've had Myn go about disguised several times. Been out in the open Isinhold market, speaking using what (for her) is a fake accent, acting not like Myn...

... yet never, and I mean never have I ever been asked to make any bluff/perform/whatever rolls. Ever.

So I need to ask the community that if this is such an important thing why haven't I been asked? If characters who are supposedly "well known" need to be making rolls like this, or emoting constantly that they are not speaking in their normal voices, why not mine?

Now, maybe I'm overestimating how well known my character is and if I am then I'll retract my question. Till then, I'm going to ask people why not?

Granted, I've had the opposite happen where I've done all the emotes, had her in disguise, and not had Myn act like Myn and have someone just come up and say "Ah, Miss Copperhand, how are you?" Without a single tell or even an emote of suspicion. The person was corrected and he took back his greeting, but still blatantly ignoring any efforts I was making made me feel cheated.

I am so glad someone else mentioned this instead of me, perhaps the point may be a bit more accepted. We all know you werent asked. If I recall correctly you were even wearing a hood, yet not one person *watched the hooded woman pass*.

[Grozer]

entori said:

I'll agree with immersion there, that hoods are not -Alone- suspicous..

But a character in disguise, needs to be able to act in disguise to, and again I am talking about characters I am familiar with.

Then again what is familar. You specifically mention Entori being familar with Ranan... well is he? Lets see they have interacted a couple of times at best, always in a public area with many other people around (PCs and NPCs) and for brief periods of time. So is that enough basis to pick him out of crowd, when he is trying to blend in and he says very little? I dont believe so. Just something to consider...

[EDM Entori]

grozer said:

entori said:

I'll agree with immersion there, that hoods are not -Alone- suspicous..

But a character in disguise, needs to be able to act in disguise to, and again I am talking about characters I am familiar with.

Then again what is familar. You specifically mention Entori being familar with Ranan... well is he? Lets see they have interacted a couple of times at best, always in a public area with many other people around (PCs and NPCs) and for brief periods of time. So is that enough basis to pick him out of crowd, when he is trying to blend in and he says very little? I dont believe so. Just something to consider...

I think I changed that example to represent person x instead of rannan, it could be any john doe acting suspicious.. and I'll point out that suspicious depends on the character. What some may not find suspicious a law bearing police officer would

edit: well genius wizard, to my mind would only need to see someone a few times, I mean I still meet fighters I've met 2 years ago RL on FRC who still don't remember ents name..

[Grozer]

avieupator said:

shadowcatjen said:

Pardon me if I come off as a little snarky here, but...

I've had Myn go about disguised several times. Been out in the open Isinhold market, speaking using what (for her) is a fake accent, acting not like Myn...

... yet never, and I mean never have I ever been asked to make any bluff/perform/whatever rolls. Ever.

So I need to ask the community that if this is such an important thing why haven't I been asked? If characters who are supposedly "well known" need to be making rolls like this, or emoting constantly that they are not speaking in their normal voices, why not mine?

Now, maybe I'm overestimating how well known my character is and if I am then I'll retract my question. Till then, I'm going to ask people why not?

Granted, I've had the opposite happen where I've done all the emotes, had her in disguise, and not had Myn act like Myn and have someone just come up and say "Ah, Miss Copperhand, how are you?" Without a single tell or even an emote of suspicion. The person was corrected and he took back his greeting, but still blatantly ignoring any efforts I was making made me feel cheated.

More to the actual topic:

Tells solve a lot with initial reactions. It's easy enough to just ask OOCly if someone is in disguise. A good general rule of thumb to have is if the PC is wearing a hood ask if their face is visible. I'll do this with any character in a hood, "friend" or "foe".

And, as Manshin was originally trying to point out, don't ignore when you are substantially whipped with the dice roll. Once you've lost the roll, don't try to ask for more rolls every time the character speaks or does an action.

I've only seen Mynian in a disguise once that I recall... and it was so thoroughly done up visually, and being RPed so well, and being hidden in plain sight as it is.... that I honestly felt knowing my PC, her particular paranoias and suspicions... honestly wouldnt have a slightest reason to look twice at how Mynian was disguised. Now if for example you'd broken out the yartling... maybe.... or if you'd sat there hooded in good old inkblot royale complete with magic staff that would have definately peaked curiosity.

As for incognito.. while Mynian disguised herself.. and wasnt incognito... now PCs who try to be incognito by simply not interacting with anyone and hissing at folks who try to interact with them while in a public hotspot for chatting and meeting folks... well... thats a mite suspicious. What Mynian was doing sitting at that table was a far cry from suspicious. (Nor does it fail to blow my mind how that PC walked up and said "Hello missus Mynian" to you, the same as it would blow my mind if someone had reconized aria in her inkblot-dominatrixesque gettup without looking into her hood.

Two things that jump out at me when I read this, one Mynian never emoted a disgused voice (at least the entire time I was Isinhold)... bottom line she was given the benefit of the doubt by everyone there. Which begs the underlying question of why shouldnt everyone be given the same courtesy?

Second, your own statement implies you had no reason to doubt it was a disguise, i.e. no justification to ask for a bluff check. I guess where I am going with this is it just seems that when players KNOW a villian is under the mask these same standards are not used. There is clearly a different set of guidelines depending on who the person is.

[Deleted]

Second, your own statement implies you had no reason to doubt it was a disguise, i.e. no justification to ask for a bluff check. I guess where I am going with this is it just seems that when players KNOW a villian is under the mask these same standards are not used. There is clearly a different set of guidelines depending on who the person is.

Could not of put it better myself.

~Sioladuil

[EDM Entori]

dmimmersion said:

for me when I play

seeing someone in a hood - not enough

Seeing someone standing around minding own business - not enough

Seeing someone standing around and start talking in raspy voice to a villager or say hello to someoen that walks by - not enough

Seeing somone standing around, talking to someone that walked by and continueing to talk for a while as if they are comfortable with each other... - Now I might be trying to figure it out by asking my self who the person I do know associates with.

If they talk out loud for a good while.. I will finally call for a bluff/listen check to see if I can identify the voice.. it they are faking it.. a bluff check.

The main thing is that it would take awhile to get your suspicion up. A instant call for a bluff check though, unless they so outlandish in there mannerisms.. just seems totally unrealistic to me.

maybe I should clarify, I was trying to give my opinion of when something would strike me as suspicious and then would call for a bluff check. I'm in no way saying that someone shows up with a hood I'm ready to get a bluff check.

I merely think that the bluff check should be a more open thing.

For example lets use my character, cause hes well known, I think.

Ent walks in town in a red robe, decked to the hilt with redwizard like gear. now, he walks into town. This is where there are fair few adventurers around and lets us isinhold so little to none invisible NPC's. your telling me the minute he walks into town that I do not have to give a bluff roll, to pull of the demeanor stature, and well make him not look like an elf. I mean a typical moon elf stature is pretty easy to recognize right?

maybe this will help me understand where everyones coming from.

Also what do you consider a disguise. Personally I've had pc's tell me their character is in disguise when all they've done is changed colors of clothing/armor from the last time I've seen them. Does this consistute a disguise? To me I would think no. If I walk around in a blue hoodie then throw on a red one, does it change the fact I'm the same guy wearing a hoodie?

I'm sorry if I'm having trouble getting my head around it.

[ancientempathy]

Boy Entori, if someone you never met was in a disguise (and RPing it) and walked infront of you, I think you'd be sucked into some extraplanar vortex of chaos

There's something to be learned in that statement

[Deleted]

Also what do you consider a disguise.

This is what i would class as a disguise



~Sioladuil

[ancientempathy]

And Entori...

Red Wizards shave their heads bald and paint their bald heads, and have a few tattoos covering them, to boot.

So unless Entori had a hood on (because I think the pointed ears might give something out), then I doubt he should be recognized

"Elf stature"...humans can also be small and thin too. And for that matter, there can be elves taller than humans

[ancientempathy]

sioladuil said:

Also what do you consider a disguise.

This is what i would class as a disguise



~Sioladuil

ROFL

[Aodhan the Unusual]

Just something to keep in mind: Don't ignore the skill checks and dice rolls... but don't live strictly by them either.

Live a little. So what if that guy over there looks suspicious or his floaty name happens to give him away. Instead of trying to hound him for rolls to see if he's hiding or suddenly becoming suspicious, let it go. Find something else to focus on. Let the ROLEplay happen. You'll find the game becomes much more interesting and enjoyable for everyone that way.

[ShadowCatJen]

aodhan said:

Just something to keep in mind: Don't ignore the skill checks and dice rolls... but don't live strictly by them either.

Live a little. So what if that guy over there looks suspicious or his floaty name happens to give him away. Instead of trying to hound him for rolls to see if he's hiding or suddenly becoming suspicious, let it go. Find something else to focus on. Let the ROLEplay happen. You'll find the game becomes much more interesting and enjoyable for everyone that way.

What she said. *nodsnods*

grozer said:

Two things that jump out at me when I read this, one Mynian never emoted a disgused voice (at least the entire time I was Isinhold)...

Ehhhh... me wouldn'ta quite say tha'? See, me dinna 'ave 'er emote anythin' 'r tha loik, guv, but I also didn't use her usual way of speaking. So, just by typing up her dialog differently I guess you could say I was showing it was disguised without actually having to emote it. Just by having her pronounce everything properly and not even changing the tone of her voice, she managed to apparently disguise it.

Then again jus' spificly for Myn me c'n do tha because tha normal way she be speakin' jus' ain't loik yeh normal bloke, yeh know?

[Aodhan the Unusual]

I've had Tori disguised quite a few times and I rarely emoted *heavily accented voice*. Inztead I le' tha deeolog vork vor me an' eet vent quite vell I vould zay.

[ancientempathy]

I envy people who can write-up accents that well. That's always something I've struggled with a lot =\ To the point where it prevents me from playing a particular ethnic groups on account of my perception of their common dialect (Such as the Rashemi having a russian-ish accent).

Edit: I just feel I wouldn't properly RP them, or convincingly

[dmimmersion]

So heres a question for immersion... hood looking... Generally if you're hooded, and are not obvious about who you are... I emote looking into the hood. If someone wants to buy something from my PC.. they have to show their face... once I've seen your face and can start recognizing PCs on look alone (with aria anyways) without putting the cursor over soemone... thats when I start asking for bluff checks if someone is putting on a show. Normally the response is "He's not disguised". In the past and present, when my PC is actively on the look out for someone... I go out of my way to talk to every hooded person and see whats under that hood. Historically... this is how folks got the "In the name of the crown let down your hood" style encounters. Particularly during the stretch where I was hunting Rodan.

WIth that, heres the question... at what point is it okay to try to see someone's face inside of a hood? ((Aria's even tried to pull Vilith's viel down so this isnt sneaking looks its just simple blatant looking))

So you are saying Aria has a photographic memory? One look and she is going to be able to remember it forever. Intellegence does not equal excellent memory. Think of the absent minded professor. Knows quantum physicals.. always losses his car keys. Hells.. aria has glasses.. so her eye sight sucks obvously. *grins*

If looking at someones face is a condition of doing business with Aria.. then I would expect them to show their face. If they don't, why would Aria do business with them and she has every right to refuse. If aria tries to pull their hood off, and they try and avoid it.. best be getting those dice out to see if she is successful as they try to avoid it happening. Just be sure to give them a chance to try and avoid it. emote *tries to pull back hood* instead of *pulls back hood*. But remember.. a 1 on the die roll might mean you poked out his eye..

[Grozer]

shadowcatjen said:

grozer said:

Two things that jump out at me when I read this, one Mynian never emoted a disgused voice (at least the entire time I was Isinhold)...

Ehhhh... me wouldn'ta quite say tha'? See, me dinna 'ave 'er emote anythin' 'r tha loik, guv, but I also didn't use her usual way of speaking. So, just by typing up her dialog differently I guess you could say I was showing it was disguised without actually having to emote it. Just by having her pronounce everything properly and not even changing the tone of her voice, she managed to apparently disguise it.

Then again jus' spificly for Myn me c'n do tha because tha normal way she be speakin' jus' ain't loik yeh normal bloke, yeh know?

Actually I realized that why didnt emote a change since it was obvious, but I was trying to make a point. Some of the previous clearly said "if you dont emote to disguising your voice" then you arent doing so.

Yes it was obvious but then again someone should have asked for a bluff check.... I mean it does actually take some skill to 'hide' Myn's horridly difficult to understand gibberish?

[Grozer]

entori said:

dmimmersion said:

for me when I play

seeing someone in a hood - not enough

Seeing someone standing around minding own business - not enough

Seeing someone standing around and start talking in raspy voice to a villager or say hello to someoen that walks by - not enough

Seeing somone standing around, talking to someone that walked by and continueing to talk for a while as if they are comfortable with each other... - Now I might be trying to figure it out by asking my self who the person I do know associates with.

If they talk out loud for a good while.. I will finally call for a bluff/listen check to see if I can identify the voice.. it they are faking it.. a bluff check.

The main thing is that it would take awhile to get your suspicion up. A instant call for a bluff check though, unless they so outlandish in there mannerisms.. just seems totally unrealistic to me.

maybe I should clarify, I was trying to give my opinion of when something would strike me as suspicious and then would call for a bluff check. I'm in no way saying that someone shows up with a hood I'm ready to get a bluff check.

I merely think that the bluff check should be a more open thing.

For example lets use my character, cause hes well known, I think.

Ent walks in town in a red robe, decked to the hilt with redwizard like gear. now, he walks into town. This is where there are fair few adventurers around and lets us isinhold so little to none invisible NPC's. your telling me the minute he walks into town that I do not have to give a bluff roll, to pull of the demeanor stature, and well make him not look like an elf. I mean a typical moon elf stature is pretty easy to recognize right?

As opposed to all other elves that hang around Isinhold? I would say no. Now if someone has knowledge of Thay its pretty safe assumption to know they are mostly human that might generate some questions. Assuming some recognized you were wearing Thayan garb and was actually worried about it.

entori said:

Also what do you consider a disguise. Personally I've had pc's tell me their character is in disguise when all they've done is changed colors of clothing/armor from the last time I've seen them. Does this consistute a disguise? To me I would think no. If I walk around in a blue hoodie then throw on a red one, does it change the fact I'm the same guy wearing a hoodie?

I'm sorry if I'm having trouble getting my head around it.

First, my opinion is any change is considered a disguise, how good it is, is another question. Taking your examples, so a human that falls within the range of average possibly slightly taller changes his clothing and his face is covered, what else can you base it on that you 'recognize' him/ her? I would say changing the look and color does constitute enough to throw people off... until you start talking or interacting. Otherwise you have nothing more to base it on.. unless you are telling me you can pick out Ranan's body in a crowd?

For me this is the same for your hoodie example. In that simple example if I only change the hood you still have the rest of my attire to match up so yeah it wouldnt be much of a disguise. If I go into a building and you are specifically eying me and a man comes out moments later in a completely different outfit assuming few to no one else passes through the door you could even get suspicious that the person changed clothes.

Plus you have to keep in mind just because the NWN engine doesnt allow it, there are a number of other things that a person can do to enhance his diguise. I have used a limp in the past to distract attention and there are a number of things we cant display visually.

[dmimmersion]

For example lets use my character, cause hes well known, I think.

Ent walks in town in a red robe, decked to the hilt with redwizard like gear. now, he walks into town. This is where there are fair few adventurers around and lets us isinhold so little to none invisible NPC's. your telling me the minute he walks into town that I do not have to give a bluff roll, to pull of the demeanor stature, and well make him not look like an elf. I mean a typical moon elf stature is pretty easy to recognize right?

No.. he shouldnt have to be required to roll a bluff the moment he walks into town. Like Humans.. elves do come in a variety of sizes. While maybe not quite as diverse as humans.. there are fat elves.. there are short elves.. there are tall elves.

2) With the amount of trade and research Thay is involved in.. why would one arise suspicion in a town. Only if they were enemies of Thay maybe and then I would be more worried about getting killed for dressing like one then getting caught pretending to be one. This goes doubly for Isinhold.. Proskur is just down the road so Red Wizards would probably be pretty common in Isinhold. Same with Redmist, and Suzail.. it is a capital city and trade from all over the Realms occurs there.

3) Robes and a hood are not form fitting items that show off details, they are probably the BEST item to conceal body shape.

Now.. if he starts acting like a Thayan in his talk to people, since he is now pretending to be a actual thing.. people that are familiar with Thayans might have a good chance to recognize he is faking (hence the ability to call the bluff). But if you have never met a Thayan, you would have no idea and really have no reason to be suspicious that it is someone that is pretending to be a Red Wizard.