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Post by sneakingyoda on May 9, 2006 12:14:54 GMT -5
(sorry in advance if this is in the wrong topic.)
Isinhold is a great place. I know it's the bottle neck in a road and that alot of adventures go through there....
But, lately I've been on a "Why does everyone sit in Isinhold?" kick. is it because alot of random dm events happen to Isinhold? Is it because it has an extra shiney welcome room door so that the new players know where to start?
Is it because all the low level areas surround isinhold? No one seems to like sam's cooking: so people must not be staying for the food. Everyone has a perminate room in the regal griffon, I think a dm once joked with me how the entire server is housed in the first four doors of the inn.
I'm sure there are plenty of rp reasons of why a person would stick around Isinhold, but most of the time it feels like a burmuda triangle effect. "Hey how are you? what brings you to Isinhold this month." and the reply is. "Well I'm great- but I wanted to see how everyone else is doing so I came back here."
But why Isinhold? Why does everyone gather in a small sleepy farm village?
Just curious.
Interested in what people might say.
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Post by soulfien on May 9, 2006 13:53:09 GMT -5
Go sit in a tavern in another city for a few hours. You'll never see another soul.
Also, Arabel is the only place to buy healing potions for cheaper than Merris. But Merris sells the cheapest healing kits.
Merris: 32gp Everyone else: 75-120gp
When you buy 20 kits at the inflated price it adds up fast.
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Post by hexer on May 9, 2006 13:55:40 GMT -5
So, you stay in Isinhold for... healing kits. Hm. Interesting.
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Post by Thrym on May 9, 2006 14:06:39 GMT -5
I think everyone hanging around in Isinhold got far worse since they removed the door to Redmist in the welcome room. When I played here with Jandor (over a year ago now... feels like yesterday ;D ), most of the midlevel players were in Redmist. Aside from the campfire in Isinhold (when you logged in back then you were at the Isinhold docks, and you could rest at the campfire so... everyone in Isinhold gathered there), the Redmist Inn was the one place you could hang around some time and be certain that someone to RP with would show up. Looking at it now though, if you hang around anywhere save for Isinhold, the chance you'll meet someone is pretty low. I think the three main reasons are: 1. New players. We all like to meet new people to play with, and the only place you can meet them is Isinhold. The only other town a lowlevel char can reach without the caravan is Redmist. On the way to Skull Crag, those orcs will tear you apart, and if you try to get from Redmist to Suzail... well, if you got luck you can make it to the first group of orcs. 2. Supplies. You can all admitt it, you all are greedy. If I buy supplies with Jorinar, I can either buy kits for ~36, potions for ~48 and raise scrolls for ~1200 at Merriss, hope that Kam shows up, or buy them in another town for about twice that much. Now I can only speak for myself, but I could not afford the supplies I need to go anywhere challenging anywhere else than in Isinhold, and I think most people that are not of pretty high level can't do it as well. 3. Thanks to Number 1 and 2, everyone else is in Isinhold. If you want to meet your friends, you basically have to go there. As said, back then many people were in Redmist often. I think Redmist was chosen to hang around for some simple reasons. Redmist is the first area new PCs come after Isinhold, so you can still meet many new players there. And you could actually go there frequently... you could just use the door from the welcome room. If a group wants to use Redmist as their hangout now, they have to walk through half of Isinhold and then either hike there or pay for a ticket (which can take ages or cost *much* money if the server is crashy). Not to mention that you can survive near Redmist alone or at least in a small group as a midlevel character. Look at the doors in the welcome room. Let's say you are level seven or around that. Suzail? Go out of town, the orcs kill you. Of course some level seven chars can kill some of the orcs around there, but many can not so... even if you can kill them, your friends might not go there as they'd just die. Shallybrook? Go out of town, get crushed by a hillgiant. Skull Crag? See Suzail. Arabel? Do I have to comment that at all? What stays is... Isinhold. It is the only town you can reach from the welcome room you can survive at at a rather low level. And after you have spent weeks or months there till you could survive using another door in the welcome room... after that time Isinhold has become your chars home, his friends home, everyones home. Why should he go somewhere else permanently after all that time? I think the best way to get people out of Isinhold would be to get back the door to Redmist in the welcome room. I know that I would use it daily, and I am sure a bunch of other people would as well. It would give the midlevels a place they can go to after the first few levels, preventing them from feeling 'at home' after so many weeks they had to spent in Isinhold. *waves around a sign 'Get back the door to Redmist'* ;D Shazzar
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on May 9, 2006 14:12:26 GMT -5
Go sit in a tavern in another city for a few hours. You'll never see another soul. Also, Arabel is the only place to buy healing potions for cheaper than Merris. But Merris sells the cheapest healing kits. Merris: 32gp Everyone else: 75-120gp When you buy 20 kits at the inflated price it adds up fast. I will be working on this. There were some concerns with repricing that came up when I tried to do this the first go around. I put it on the back burner. I suppose I could raise Merris's prices again in the meantime... OK, just kidding. This will be addressed soon.
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Post by sneakingyoda on May 9, 2006 15:08:45 GMT -5
I can understand the lower level bottle neck, that it takes a little while to grow up past the Isinhold area. Lower levels just don’t have the freedom of movement that someone level 10 or up would have. But what I’m seeing is a catch 22. If everyone stays in Isinhold because it’s conveniently where everyone goes- then there is little enjoyment in leaving Isinhold. I understand there is a great need for people know where they can go on the server in order to bump into other characters. I know you can’t stop a favorite place or location from growing popular. I guess I’m also saying that sticking around Isinhold isn’t always a bad thing. But what I long for is that people will mix things up a little bit more, I’ve recently tried my best to get my character out of Isinhold- and it hasn’t been cheap or easy by any means. I know a lot of my mobility is directly dependent on the kindness of others in travel. I also know that others may not have the same IG opportunities as I. But I guess that’s why I’m trying to encourage people to get out of Isinhold. But what I’m seeing lately is that Isinhold is more than just a pooling of where people meet- it’s become a lightening rod and keystone to more than one major dm assisted story line. It could be because I haven’t been around during times that other towns have been focused on- but how many times has Isinhold suffered lately? Dragons? Assassins? Werewolves? Vampires? Drow? With the Zhents banging on the door to the north… Compare all the stuff that happens to Isinhold (only because that’s where everyone goes…) to oh, a large trading populace that has remained in ruins for OOC months, like Arabel. How is it that Isinhold continues to spring back from attack after attack and yet it has dirt roads and wooden banks? But Arabel is still smoking from fires. Would Arabel be different if people actually visited it regularly? I admit the only reason I’m thinking about Arabel is because IG my character is very soon going to expend a good about of effort in that city. (At least I hope. =D ) I lean back and look at the surroundings and know that when I take that door through to Arabel I better have enough money to travel the caravans to get out again- because I won’t be able to get out of it alone. And of course, I’ll still go through the Isinhold door to travel and get some experience on the way to Redmist- but I’ve been trying to make a better effort not to sit in the Isinhold inn because I know eventually someone will show up. I was just curious if I was the only one who thought that hanging around Isinhold is a little weird. If so many people frequent the town, then Isinhold should be growing larger… or if so many attacks were happening to Isinhold- then it should be suffering. There is no quick fix for convenience. (and I recognize this is a “becareful what you wish for” thing and hope that the spirit of the post is clear. I don’t want to ruin Isinhold. ) And people will always pool. Even I enjoy and use Isinhold for its benefits. And let’s face it- of you die alone- your going to Isinhold. So Isinhold is a key fixture. But I would like to see reasons or people leaving it a little more often- because it is still just a farm town.
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Post by theonewhostoodup on May 9, 2006 15:23:15 GMT -5
I think you bring up an excellent point, and you've laid it out perfectly. It's really quite simple. It's just very odd, from an RP-perspective, that little ol' Isinhold would be the Grand Central Station of adventuring.
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Post by Grozer on May 9, 2006 15:30:29 GMT -5
Many of your points are valid, but you also have to keep in mind the server "clock" or timeline if you will is not moving forward. Justi and team have been working so hard to finish to mod that the timeline is static. Although it hasnt been mentioned in some time, the idea was to put the final touches on the mod and then let the clock move forward and with it changes to the cities, towns and the Cormyr as we know them, e.g. Isinhold might grow, Arabel would rebuild, the Zhentarium would take over, etc.
I DONT believe pricing is the main reason Isinhold is popular, I really believe its because we all come to FRC for RP and you are going to go where the RP happens. If the majority of people are in Isinhold you'll wind up there.
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Post by Grozer on May 9, 2006 15:33:20 GMT -5
I think you bring up an excellent point, and you've laid it out perfectly. It's really quite simple. It's just very odd, from an RP-perspective, that little ol' Isinhold would be the Grand Central Station of adventuring. Actually not... Isinhold is technically a border city and therefore an entry point into Cormyr. Having traveled around the world, I've been to several big countries where the border town looked primitive compared to the other cities.
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Post by moulinous on May 9, 2006 15:35:22 GMT -5
Guldar is not a big fan of Isnhold for many reasons, one of the biggest is when me and a guard got into it for him being predjudiced*grumble*. I try to stay out of the place except for heal kits and raise dead scrolls. Lately i have been seeing more people in Redmist which i dig and would love to see more of. And a door into Redmist would be ideal. I for one dig Shallybrook, but hten again, it is the only place my guy feels tall. The other day there was a wagon with a campfire on the way to Redmist and i stoped there for a good half hour to an hour just hunting a deer, making stew, looking for wild vegetables, basically doing nothing other then hanging out to see who walked by. Low and behold, Kam showed up and off we went after eating some dwarven travelling stew. (Wonder what happened to the wagons owner?) It was not till 10th level or so that it is safe to go anywhere without friends and this being a big world it is hard to find where everyone went without tells. I kinda like just running in to pcs...makes it more fun and truly more rpish in my mind and i think some repricing and a door to Redmist would be the ticket.
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Post by theonewhostoodup on May 9, 2006 15:57:22 GMT -5
I think you bring up an excellent point, and you've laid it out perfectly. It's really quite simple. It's just very odd, from an RP-perspective, that little ol' Isinhold would be the Grand Central Station of adventuring. Actually not... Isinhold is technically a border city and therefore an entry point into Cormyr. Having traveled around the world, I've been to several big countries where the border town looked primitive compared to the other cities. I've been around the world too, but I'm not catching your point. From an RP perspective, it is odd that the most momentous RP occasions take place in this border town, rather than cities that are more politically, culturally and economically central to the region.
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Post by moulinous on May 9, 2006 16:09:31 GMT -5
Waterloo, Tombstone, there is countless towns through out history that, though not the main part of the country so to speak, have been the biggest players in it. Isnhold is little diffrent. Also, it a border town in its appearance is what Grandad Grozer was trying to say. He is just old and does not speak too clear at times. And who to say our adventures really matter to anyone other than ourselves? Does your PC slaying a dragon make that farmers life any diffrent? No. The biggest event so far happened in Redmist i think, did it not? Just my coppers worth.
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Post by thogrimur on May 9, 2006 16:14:59 GMT -5
I would cast my vote to see Isinhold destroyed once and for all. Wait....that's not the topic here is it....? I think people go OOC and return to the village for the cheap supplies. It's really the only reason that I return. I bet my broadsword that if the players knew that the cheapest supplies were to found in Suzail, all of a sudden...whoa!?! what's everyone doing 'here'? If I am wrong Padrin will shave his mutton-chops.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on May 9, 2006 16:20:50 GMT -5
It seems to be always the way of it with any persistent world server.
You could have the new player starting point smack dab in the middle of a swamp with one campfire in the area and people will hang there. The biggest sticking point is, as it's been mentioned, that most players do like to run into new faces. Does it make sense from an RP standpoint? Of course not, but with this format of D&D you sort of have to suspend your disbelief.
In regards to Arabel not being fixed up and what not we do have to keep in mind that, currently, building or area fixes are still on the back burner till Justi and the team can fry the bigger fish (i.e. Lag beast problems, ect.). So till they're more comfortable with the bigger problem we're not going to see much in the way of cosmetic changes to the server. Again, just have to suspend your disbelief.
Though if they could do something I think a door to Redmist from the Welcome Area is a pretty good suggestion. It's at least a city and can have that excuse as to why so many would be there.
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Post by sneakingyoda on May 9, 2006 16:21:17 GMT -5
Justi and team have been working so hard to finish to mod that the timeline is static. Although it hasnt been mentioned in some time, the idea was to put the final touches on the mod and then let the clock move forward and with it changes to the cities, towns and the Cormyr as we know them, e.g. Isinhold might grow, Arabel would rebuild, the Zhentarium would take over, etc. ;D that answers my questions then. Edit: Thanks for the hard work Justi. =D
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Post by gathera on May 9, 2006 16:28:05 GMT -5
With out a doubt Padrin's mutton chop are secure. Yes *sigh* the lure of cheap healing supplies, like a moth to a flame. That and the creature of habit thing. You start off in Isinhold and really stay there for quite awhile before wandering more far a field.
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Post by Grozer on May 9, 2006 16:29:50 GMT -5
Waterloo, Tombstone, there is countless towns through out history that, though not the main part of the country so to speak, have been the biggest players in it. Isnhold is little diffrent. Also, it a border town in its appearance is what Grandad Grozer was trying to say. He is just old and does not speak too clear at times. And who to say our adventures really matter to anyone other than ourselves? Does your PC slaying a dragon make that farmers life any diffrent? No. The biggest event so far happened in Redmist i think, did it not? Just my coppers worth. Ya thanks for clarifying my point... I think... "Grandad'? Anyway my point is who is to say the most momentous RP occasions took place is Isinhold? Actually to be honest having been around this server a while many huge events took place outside of Isinhold. Most of the RP today within Isinhold is people sitting around inside the tavern and chatting. Ya there is an odd thing from time to time but that is not going to change the face of the town... Secondly if anything would truly be effecting the town if would be the threat of invasion. The current setting is a stronghold of Zhentarim forces are staging themselves just west of town and have in the past pounded the little town. The threat of invasion is ever present. So if anything the damage for feigned attacks and minor incursions would make the town in worse condition as well as drive up the number of defenders stationed there. Anyway just my thoughts which I hope are more clear even with my senility.
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Post by catmage on May 9, 2006 16:33:54 GMT -5
The other day there was a wagon with a campfire on the way to Redmist and i stoped there for a good half hour to an hour just hunting a deer, making stew, looking for wild vegetables, basically doing nothing other then hanging out to see who walked by. Low and behold, Kam showed up and off we went after eating some dwarven travelling stew. (Wonder what happened to the wagons owner?) Uh, if it's the wagon I think you mean, they were lycanthropes and Ailren kind of had to fight and kill them. I also think a door to Redmist would be a good idea. Ailren would have been long gone from Isinhold, but spending gold or risking being caught by those remnant orcs isn't a fun idea. And there is the fact that having the PCs drop in Isinhold's inn right next to the door does lend credence to the claim that we're all housed up top the Regal Griffon. EDIT: Oh, I also think perhaps having the fugue plane link to other cities would be a good idea too. I mean, realistically ((Funny thing to mention when we talk abut reviving the dead)) why would Merriss be the one saving yer bottom if you had you got the snot beaten out of you on the far side of Redmist, when they have their very own temple of goodie goods?
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Post by Talus on May 9, 2006 16:46:32 GMT -5
Well this is not the first time this topic has been discussed. One of the reasons Kam got started in his business was with the idea of moving people from Isinhold and to say Suzail. Now the idea that a few of us had never panned out. I personally would love to see everyone meeting in Suzail, there are many different temples, taverns, shops, and you can get just about anywhere from there. These are alot of things that would draw our adventures to Suzail. And the main reason that folk don't gather there. price of supplies. Everyone goes there to resupply. I think that is the main reason, and the result of that is that everyone knows that is where people go to resupply and thus find others to interact with.
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Post by marklar on May 9, 2006 17:26:54 GMT -5
i can think of tons of reason marklar would be there, a close forest that he can retreat to, people to bug, more mouths to over hear infomation, frubo's wonderful songs, it's more nuetral then alot of the other towns in Cormyr, only purple dragons there are PC's or old man Callen. besides when you spend your time in one place for a long time you begin to call it home.
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Post by Booze Hound on May 9, 2006 18:26:30 GMT -5
Vind for one avoids Isin like the plage IC it is because he is the ranger of the Hullack, and the Hullack is where he hangs, and is the place he calls home. He also is an elf getting on in the mid part of his life, and doesnt really have the patience to listen to the babblings and drama that goes on in the small always tortured Isinhold. I mean seriously, if anyone was sane, they would all leave Isin because of all the terrible crap that happens there. OOC I stay away because, well...I want people to get out of Isinhold. When I play with my buddies, and I log in, the first door I take is the Arabel door. When I see some guys I want to RP with, I tell them to meet me there, and they are all more than happy to head over even though it costs an arm and a leg, and we sit in the Inn there. the ONLY reason I am basically ever in Isin is cause, you guessed it, supplies. I know that Arabel is comparable, but there are some things I cant get out there (like arrows) and it is just the only way to be able to afford anything. I know Justi is fixing it, and working his arse off to do it, so I aint complaining. Also, since the new prices on the caravan system (you used to be able to go anywhere in the kingdom for 100g) it is harder to move around, though I dont want that changed back, cause it makes a LOT more sense this way. but, if you want things to move away from Isin...move away from Isin. Make somewhere else your home, and let others know about it. You are on the right track. If you are gonna be in Arabel, you'll see me out there, and a few other vagabonds to be sure. the only way to get anything done is to do it your damn self
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Foomanchu
Old School
The next 'Big Thing'
Posts: 299
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Post by Foomanchu on May 9, 2006 19:00:45 GMT -5
if you want things to move away from Isin...move away from Isin. Make somewhere else your home, and let others know about it. ............ the only way to get anything done is to do it your damn self haha i agree with this. the only reason Jorban goes to Isinhold is because that's were everyone is. He rarely buys potions now because he hasn't fought anything note-worthy in ages lol he just drifts between redmist and isinhold trying to find someone to talk to. So that's my excuse...I just follow the crowd if they moved away then I wouldn't go there anymore unless I had business of some sort there and sometimes...I avoid it because people there either want me dead, or have angered me enough to leave IC of course haha also i think that there are a LOT of new people on the server, so again, the crowd drifts towards the other crowd of people who are online, which usually happens to be new guys, and they just happen to be in Isin cuz...well...they'd die elsewere just my spuratic thoughts on the matter.
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Post by DM Grizwald on May 9, 2006 19:48:36 GMT -5
wow wow wow wow....padrin's losing his chops? ? thats news to me...anyways...cormyr is huge....get out and see it...its been my goal to know the whole server like the back of my hand. I've been here for maybe over a year (i dont really know) and i know there are still area's i have not seen. GET OUT, SEE IT ALL!
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Post by Munroe on May 9, 2006 23:24:30 GMT -5
It is great to say "Cormyr is huge, get out and see it" but it comes down to Cormyr is deadly. Cormyr will kill you. Cormyr will kill you with or without supplies and the best place to get supplies is Isinhold, and that is NOT OOC. People go where prices are good. My family goes to Sam's Club and Wal-Mart to shop even though we pass two Kroger supermarkets and a Foodland on the way. Going where supplies are cheap is reasonable and only good sense and accusing it of being OOC I disagree with.
Speaking personally, my characters stay around Isinhold and Redmist because, as far as adventures go, they die everywhere else. Sometimes they even die around Isinhold and Redmist, but the chance of survival is much higher. The chance of meeting someone that my characters are useful to is also much higher in those two towns because anywhere else the characters are so skilled that my character is just a tag-along and I'd rather be useful.
As for the vampires, they are actually throughout Cormyr, they're just seen more in Isinhold because there are more people to see them.
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Driderman
Old School
Off-topic conversationalist extraordinaire!
Posts: 357
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Post by Driderman on May 11, 2006 4:08:29 GMT -5
Personally, I'd love to go and explore Cormyr and not just hang about Isinhold, but seeing as my character just recently hit lvl 6 I can barely make it to Redmist without getting squashed. Doesn't leave me a lot of options in respects to travelling and RP, since the only tavern I can get to is the one in Isinhold and thats also where everybody else is.
Adding a door to Redmist in the welcome area would be a very good idea, in my opinion. Also, adding more exits to the Fugue would probably make sense as well
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Post by Eons of Recluse on May 11, 2006 8:01:34 GMT -5
The reason Cortiana hangs around Isin is pretty simple. Where else should she be? She has no goals, no reasons to be honest and so she stays in that little town. If I had done as I thought and have Tia move to Arabel, she'd never see anyone. And with my other chars... their levels are not enough to go anywhere else heh...
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Post by soulfien on May 11, 2006 12:51:47 GMT -5
So, you stay in Isinhold for... healing kits. Hm. Interesting. Yes, believe it or not, having one place to go to for supplies creates a sort of tether. After a long and difficult campaign, a trip back to Isinhold to resupply is the most common decision. While you're there you might as well relax in the inn and chat with the other pc's there. As far as the pricing in other places is subject to change, Thank you very much, Justi!
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on May 11, 2006 13:54:13 GMT -5
I figured I would post here as well, but Isinhold is no longer the cheapest place for supplies in the module. I won't tell you where, but there are places that are much cheaper... and a place coming soon that will be really cheap! Get out and explore... there is nothing holding you back now.
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Post by Grozer on May 11, 2006 15:47:26 GMT -5
Would reducing the caravan prices motivate people to get out and explore more?
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Post by moulinous on May 11, 2006 15:49:42 GMT -5
door to redmist, that will help.
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