|
Post by khuff9 on Feb 12, 2019 20:54:33 GMT -5
As a new player about a month or so and being low lvl I don't expect what I have to say to carry much weight. And not being a builder or scripter don't know how difficult anything would be to implement. But here goes.
1.) New palyers want to carve out their niche. We want to be included in more then just having conversations. Let's face it this is a game where people want to be heros or villains. If not why would you not multiclass in busboy/barback. I have had great encounters with multiple characters but in the end left alone as they left on thier adventures. My only opions, stand around or try to lvl. To be an asset and not a tag along. I think there is some resentment to newer players attaining high lvls. I play to adventure, not hang around and talk. If I just want to talk I'll talk to my wife or surgically remove the phone from my daughters hands. I don't mean to offend but you can rp while adventuring. 2.) Make epic, well epic. Make it more then leveling.Think Simo Hayha/Josef Stalin. Hayha considered the greatest sniper in history 500+ kills in under a yr vs the Red Army/ Stalin well we all know. My point. Make them have a impact on world good or bad. On a server a long time ago to progress after lvl 20 it had to be unlocked . And once a char reached the needed xp they need to earn the promotion weather it be a dm event or a reward overall good play. Now I can see this would be alot of work for dms on every lvl. But make it so as one unlocks lvl 20 they can regularly lvl to 25, new unlock to lvl 30, etc.
Thought I had more to say. The flu sucks.
|
|
|
Post by EDM Entori on Feb 12, 2019 20:56:54 GMT -5
The point I'm trying to get across is. Why are we as a community being punished because few abused the old system. I honestly see this as a punishment to us all and I fail to see how this will improve anything. your not being punished because several quest, granted a reward of thousands of XP. you still went fought the monsters and roleplayed, several of these quests were brought more in line with the rest of FRC. imo standard quest reward should be near 150-200 xp.
|
|
Eldok
Proven Member
Atonement is the way
Posts: 217
|
Post by Eldok on Feb 12, 2019 21:07:23 GMT -5
Is there much of a way for post-epic characters to arrange some sort of 'ending'? Like, maybe the DMs could give them a tangible conclusion to their personal story, and have that affect the server somehow in return for retiring the character? It honestly feels that would be more dynamic and useful than making it yet more inconvenient to reach the level cap. There have been some folk who've done this. But there's no formal system. The cap is open as a free choice made at the start of FRC. But it was never a number this place was designed for. Beyond 24 the server scales badly. It just does. You've hit the built soft limit and going further is no longer an activity easily supported by the structure itself. But as Radman says, newer places that are so tailored for this tier of play 25-30 and 30+ wpuld suit better than the prior scale places. Being "worth it" when you are outside their design scale. Indeed, that would be genious.
|
|
|
Post by Dobian on Feb 13, 2019 12:14:39 GMT -5
I honestly don't understand why people suddenly think after all these years that players are leveling "too fast". I think it's a lot more perception than reality. I level up in my real life career faster than I level up in this game. That is not an exaggeration. Most quest xp rewards are (were) in the 150-300 range, which is a pittance. The ones that give more substantial rewards, like the Wizard's Tower and the Thunderstone dracoliches, are ones you need a party for. So they're not something you can easily roll your epic through to farm some quick xp. Nerfing quest xp rewards doesn't have the intended effect at all and won't slow down the already slow leveling any further. It just means players might be inclined to keep their character out and about a little longer to make another 100 xp or so when they would have just headed back to town to rp after the dungeon, so if anything it just promotes more grinding.
|
|
|
Post by Vaxel on Feb 13, 2019 13:33:47 GMT -5
Personally? I'd feel fine if this change occurred after a vault wipe. But to make the change after generations of different characters have been able to create their epics under the old system so that they can sit back with their comfortable level X epic is what I feel is not right, and thus making new and old players 'hard done by' with their new characters.
If there was a vault wipe, it would all be fair. We'd all get the same start.
To make a change like this after so many years is what perplexes me, as it upsets a balance that's been in place years before.
I don't know what other thoughts were behind the full basis of the change of course, but after all the comments saying how it's been slow-going even before the re-balance... was such an update -really- necessary?
The means to reach the high epics already required an unhealthy amount of game-play to level up within a space of time which is deemed 'too fast'. And that's on whoever does that, one or two cases of someone leveling up at a faster rate than others at such a high level should not be reason enough to affect the many who don't, and prefer to play a much more healthy and/or casual way.
To make a change like this can be interpreted as a means of making players play and remain on the server for even more unhealthy amounts of time to get even mildly close to the same amount of turnout as before to 'catch up' to the other epics that exist still today.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Feb 13, 2019 13:44:26 GMT -5
The point I'm trying to get across is. Why are we as a community being punished because few abused the old system. I honestly see this as a punishment to us all and I fail to see how this will improve anything. your not being punished because several quest, granted a reward of thousands of XP. you still went fought the monsters and roleplayed, several of these quests were brought more in line with the rest of FRC. imo standard quest reward should be near 150-200 xp. but we all are being punished because few abused it.
|
|
|
Post by Helgrin Granitesoul on Feb 13, 2019 13:55:07 GMT -5
Vaxel, I am not sure where you saw that this was done just because of one or two cases?
In regards to everyone else that is taking issue with this, no one has the data in regards to how fast people are achieving epic levels and beyond except for the dm team. We each may have our own personal thoughts and our own experience, but they can see the player base as a whole.. how fast people are getting to epic, what those epics are doing on a daily/weekly basis once they start getting to post epic levels, what locations people are hitting over and over again based on the risk/reward and XP bonuses. I bet donuts to dollars, the only reason people were going to these high level XP reward places was JUST for the quest reward.
I am absolutely positive that the decision was not a quick one, and when it was decided, it was for what they believe is the best for the server as a whole.
Personally I don't know why grinding out post epic would even be fun. Personally once I got Helgrin that high, I hardly ever went out on dungeon crawls. It got SOOO boring always hitting the same things over and over and over again just so you can achieve the next level and get the next little shiny ability. In my opinion, if you are playing to just get to that next level, you miss the point of what this place was meant to be.
|
|
|
Post by FlyingMidget on Feb 13, 2019 13:55:38 GMT -5
I think people need to take a step back, take a deep breath and remember that nobody has been punished by this change, it was merely a change that the administration believed would have the server fit back closer to the original vision and put more of the quests on a similar footing so that it wasn't just a handful of honey pots that grant close to a thousand experience regardless of level ontop of all the combat experience and the like acquired.
I think it's also important that people realize that beyond about level 18-20 anything extra is just bonus that comes with time regardless and really the level 10-20 level range is the most fun to be in of all the level ranges, DM's are more likely to do things with your group, there's always somebody around in your level range and a vast number of different areas and dungeons you can do rather then the same old few day in day out. Also nobody should be spending unhealthy amounts of time grinding to begin with either before or after this change, this change doesn't really have a large effect on characters that are under level 23 anyhow as below that point you're still likely to be getting more then a single experience point for each of the 100-350ish or so monsters you fought ontop of the small bonus from the boss and another small bonus from the associated quest.
FM.
|
|
|
Post by Vaertai on Feb 13, 2019 14:21:22 GMT -5
Alright. Nice white knighting guys but be real. It is a punshiment to the many that arent out there constantly grinding. If you dont see that you missed the point being made. It was uneeded. Bottle line. A few people went out and grinded it up while the rest played how they wished. Slowly gaining progression between dealing with IC and real life things. Funny to see mostly people woth epics already being firmly ok with it and trying to downplay everyone else.
Oh well. Im done in here.
Have a good one.
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Feb 13, 2019 14:24:23 GMT -5
I think the change was good! *thumps up to the DM's'' some of those quests XP's were insanely high comapred to the rest of the server. and as been stated mupliple times by the DM's... reaching lvl 40 just usely never happend
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Feb 13, 2019 14:26:43 GMT -5
Alright. Nice white knighting guys but be real. It is a punshiment to the many that arent out there constantly grinding. If you dont see that you missed the point being made. It was uneeded. Bottle line. A few people went out and grinded it up while the rest played how they wished. Slowly gaining progression between dealing with IC and real life things. Funny to see mostly people woth epics already being firmly ok with it and trying to downplay everyone else. Oh well. Im done in here. Have a good one. Thats a funny statement.. that only people with Epic Chars are fine with this ?... i don't think i really every did the hullack before i was over lvl 23 with my highest active epic. and to do most of those places you need to be epic to even attempt it..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 15:34:36 GMT -5
If you are going to have a lvl 40 server and enjoy the people that are brought in by that fact than I am surprised how much ppl get upset and stomp their feet and cross their arms about people reaching those lvls. Lvl 40 server and everyone loses their minds when one person hit 40 or others filling into the late 20s and early 30s. It is completely within the right of those that run the server to change things on the server without asking the player base. (I may not agree with it but... *Shrug* I'm still going to enjoy a dungeon even if the XP is less.) It's all the high browing and telling others how they should spend their time and play that makes me wince here. Everyone aslong as they play by the rules should be allowed to play however they wish here without getting looked down on. People get so judgmental of others. Of others they don't even give a chance to rp with and then claim they don't rp enough. If the server is going to be lvl 40 cap then it should cater to all those lvls.
If you dungeon once a day in a group you will end up hitting epics faster than most consider appropriate. This is a dnd game. Some ppl do nothing but rp because that makes them happy. And good for them we are all here to have fun! Some ppl like challenging dungeons and punching outside their weight class for the challenge. This is a game for people of all kinds to come together and play and rp and dungeon. FRC outside of the server from people elsewhere is known for its dungeons. And that it's a lvl 40 server. The more kind and open and accepting of diff ppls ways of playing the more they will be open to rping with us and perhaps even slowing their dungeoning to do it. (As a happy consequence for some that are concerned over such things) DND was an escape from the judgement of the world outside for so many that discovered it. A safe haven from prejudice and else. How about we keep it that way.
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Feb 13, 2019 15:52:15 GMT -5
I will be a bit more blunt.
It is really simple...
Do not play the "catch up with the old super epics game". Most characters that over level 30, are semi retired or in the process of retiring. If they are still around, then most of the time is to pass on knowledge, to RP, to hang out with their old friends, and to finish whatever business they still had. Some simply return for a brief cameo if anything.
Honestly, if some are playing the moot catch up game, then I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there was no race to begin with.
It is more healthy to play at your own pace, and worry not of what others are doing. If you worry that the enemies of your characters are too strong, or that others in general are just too high because they were around during the old system, you will only grow jealous and anxious. The natural tendency is that the number of super epics will eventually diminish, allowing the next generation to carry the torch.
That being said, I strongly prefer a FRC that still allows for a slower climb to 30 and 40, than a nerfed FRC of levels 12 or 20. Not all of us play characters that are playable and that can develop in 20 levels only.
|
|
|
Post by MTGPackFoils on Feb 13, 2019 17:18:46 GMT -5
Everyone’s focus is on the space between 30 and 40, and I’m just trying to get to 21.
Perhaps examining the current quests to see if there are any gaps that need fixed...
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Feb 13, 2019 17:28:26 GMT -5
Everyone’s focus is on the space between 30 and 40, and I’m just trying to get to 21. Perhaps examining the current quests to see if there are any gaps that need fixed... You just need a regular group to play with and that opens up access for the very challenging areas. Doing it solo will take twice the time if not more.
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Feb 13, 2019 17:36:47 GMT -5
Everyone’s focus is on the space between 30 and 40, and I’m just trying to get to 21. Perhaps examining the current quests to see if there are any gaps that need fixed... You just need a regular group to play with and that opens up access for the very challenging areas. Doing it solo will take twice the time if not more. Speaking from experience, though, solo is a lot faster when you don't have friends on the server.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Feb 13, 2019 17:41:30 GMT -5
Everyone’s focus is on the space between 30 and 40, and I’m just trying to get to 21. Perhaps examining the current quests to see if there are any gaps that need fixed... You just need a regular group to play with and that opens up access for the very challenging areas. Doing it solo will take twice the time if not more. aka if you dont have a cliche your boned.
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Feb 13, 2019 17:53:40 GMT -5
You just need a regular group to play with and that opens up access for the very challenging areas. Doing it solo will take twice the time if not more. aka if you dont have a cliche your boned. Clique* I assume you mean. Not exactly, and then some do alright solo. However, FRC's dungeons and areas are not really designed for solo play. If some can do it, it is because class, class combination, experience in the server, and a solid grasp of the mechanics.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Feb 13, 2019 18:14:45 GMT -5
I do not solo by choice. But I'm one of the many who are being punished for others abuses.
|
|
Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
|
Post by Andros on Feb 13, 2019 18:32:31 GMT -5
I honestly can't understand how people arriving at the conclusion that this punishes non grinders...let's see.
Point 1) Pre Epic rewards, not nerfed so getting there doesn't take any longer now than two weeks ago.
Point 2) Epic rewards nerfed so getting past 24 it's several times more difficult, grinders used to spend X hours grinding daily and getting XP now they are getting 4 times less or whatever for the same time investment.
Example: Before I go into an orc lair at 24, kill 200 mobs get 200 xp at 1xp a pop then go turn in reward and get 500 xp, total: 700. Now: get 200 xp from mobs turn in for 150, total: 350. Conclusion: 50% xp reduction for the same time investment.
So now grinders getting past 24 into the late 20s and early 30s takes twice as long for them, so maybe before they where taking 6 months to get to 30, now they take 1 year.
Meanwhile non-grinders get to 20 as usual and then maybe stay in the low 20s for months, the thing is recently being 20 had lost a lot of lustre thanks to the amount of late 20s and early 30s epics so there was a feeling (evidenced in this very thread) that 20 wasn't enough to be competitive with the cream of the crop.
Now with this change 20-21 is back to being competitive with the giants of the server (or at least the new generation of them coming from now on). Because now you get to 20 and are not overshadowed by the level 30 runing around in the event you are so desperate to excel at, because the 2019 version of this character is now 24 or 25.
PD: And let's be honest if you don't have enough time to do at least one dungeon run a day (and the right dungeons at that), you are not getting past 24 in anything less than years even without the nerfs.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Feb 13, 2019 19:25:40 GMT -5
I honestly can't understand how people arriving at the conclusion that this punishes non grinders...let's see. Point 1) Pre Epic rewards, not nerfed so getting there doesn't take any longer now than two weeks ago. Point 2) Epic rewards nerfed so getting past 24 it's several times more difficult, grinders used to spend X hours grinding daily and getting XP now they are getting 4 times less or whatever for the same time investment. Example: Before I go into an orc lair at 24, kill 200 mobs get 200 xp at 1xp a pop then go turn in reward and get 500 xp, total: 700. Now: get 200 xp from mobs turn in for 150, total: 350. Conclusion: 50% xp reduction for the same time investment. So now grinders getting past 24 into the late 20s and early 30s takes twice as long for them, so maybe before they where taking 6 months to get to 30, now they take 1 year. Meanwhile non-grinders get to 20 as usual and then maybe stay in the low 20s for months, the thing is recently being 20 had lost a lot of lustre thanks to the amount of late 20s and early 30s epics so there was a feeling (evidenced in this very thread) that 20 wasn't enough to be competitive with the cream of the crop. Now with this change 20-21 is back to being competitive with the giants of the server (or at least the new generation of them coming from now on). Because now you get to 20 and are not overshadowed by the level 30 runing around in the event you are so desperate to excel at, because the 2019 version of this character is now 24 or 25. PD: And let's be honest if you don't have enough time to do at least one dungeon run a day (and the right dungeons at that), you are not getting past 24 in anything less than years even without the nerfs. you see you are targeting grinders. But we as a community are being punished as a whole
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Feb 13, 2019 19:42:21 GMT -5
Meanwhile non-grinders get to 20 as usual and then maybe stay in the low 20s for months, the thing is recently being 20 had lost a lot of lustre thanks to the amount of late 20s and early 30s epics so there was a feeling (evidenced in this very thread) that 20 wasn't enough to be competitive with the cream of the crop. I didn't want to be "competitive" when I ground through 19 and 20, I just wanted to stop sucking the non-quest rewards out of the only grouping I could get by getting up to within 10 levels. People's reasons for doing things may not always be as simple as they first appear.
|
|
|
Post by probablyamage on Feb 13, 2019 20:20:33 GMT -5
My experience on leveling an (almost) level 30 character is that past level 24, it's a rare surprise to get a level. You don't grind for them because that would be agonizingly slow with both pre or post nerf xp. Most high epics are multiple years in the making, and have been labors of love. The exceptions involve grinding so hard that this change won't do more than delay them a little. You can't stop grinders from getting ridiculous levels. It's just not possible unless they're flat out disallowed. With all of that in mind, I find this change most annoying pre-epic. FRC leveling is slow unless you devote enormous amounts of time to it or have a perfectly synergized regular group with both mechanical knowledge and server knowledge. Slowing that rate further just encourages more and more dungeoning, as many have said.
As a side note, it's getting dangerously close to the point where high epics find the best use of their time from a purely mechanical standpoint is to go quickly slaughter goblins in vast quantities. No one wants that, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it happening now.
|
|
|
Post by lucid on Feb 13, 2019 20:37:27 GMT -5
Hi I don’t care Thanks
Though the admin in me wonders why you don’t just make a searchable table of quest hits
|
|
|
Post by Vaertai on Feb 13, 2019 22:28:22 GMT -5
Alright. Nice white knighting guys but be real. It is a punishment to the many that arent out there constantly grinding. If you dont see that you missed the point being made. It was uneeded. Bottle line. A few people went out and grinded it up while the rest played how they wished. Slowly gaining progression between dealing with IC and real life things. Funny to see mostly people with epics already being firmly ok with it and trying to downplay everyone else. Oh well. Im done in here. Have a good one. Thats a funny statement.. that only people with Epic Chars are fine with this ?... i don't think i really every did the hullack before i was over lvl 23 with my highest active epic. and to do most of those places you need to be epic to even attempt it.. No. I said mostly not only. Also I hadn't done any hullack dungeon until 24. As you can see from my previous post (the one before the quoted), I did not post my level but those who know me know I have been around for a while and I can tell you it is sub 30 after, hmm, close to 12 years off and on. And this is including the releveling I had to do after the vault wipe as I did not have a bic. My only intention was to respond to who quoted me. Please carry on.
|
|
abby
Old School
Posts: 323
|
Post by abby on Feb 14, 2019 1:43:02 GMT -5
I don't care either... the only reason I like to level is so I can be compatible with the largest amount of characters so I never have to twiddle my thumbs, getting left behind. That's why epic levels are stupid and pointless. If it was 1-20, you'd always be compatible with roughly half the server at a minimum. NOT that I'm saying we should be level 20cap.
|
|
|
Post by xeneize on Feb 14, 2019 5:44:25 GMT -5
After experimenting a little around questing as of late and witnessing cuts in rewards to up to 70-80%, I think that the server would best benefit of going back on that change. I understand the pains that may come with trying to balance the challenge of events for the variety of levels we have; but those so called 'grinders' will likely, in my experience, adopt worse grinding behaviors now that they advance at an ever slower rate. Offenders are always best dealt with separately over mass-changes that make the rest of us feel like there has been some punishment delivered to us because of the 'few'. My points
|
|
|
Post by sergeil on Feb 14, 2019 5:54:06 GMT -5
I would propose everyone who glad, because reducing of quest reward, to visit his boss in real life and ask him to cut your salary a little bit. Maybe, it will be similar.
For 1.5 years I grew my first character till level 22 and my second second till level 19.
Also I have 2 low level characters to play in musters.
And I want grow my epic character as soon as possible because I want it.
|
|
Nicoen
Proven Member
Posts: 225
|
Post by Nicoen on Feb 14, 2019 8:00:38 GMT -5
I honestly can't understand how people arriving at the conclusion that this punishes non grinders...let's see. Point 1) Pre Epic rewards, not nerfed so getting there doesn't take any longer now than two weeks ago. The change isn't based on your level, so yes it also hits pre epics. The quest rewards that got nerfed aren't just the ones that are for epic characters, but also those that characters in their teens would go to.
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Feb 14, 2019 9:27:32 GMT -5
To be entirely honest, I don't get upset with other players who do nothing but grind dungeons. It doesn't affect me in any way, in the slightest. If they are out grinding a dungeon while I'm in RP interaction with other characters, the grinder is on the other side of the server somewhere totally offscreen to me. They're not affecting server politics and making life difficult for me socially if they're busy grinding away. They're not provoking PVP with me or getting involved in it if they're too busy grinding dungeons to ever give or pick up on an IC reason. The dungeons respawns the moment they're done with it, so it's not even as if the dungeon stays clear when I do show up to clear it myself. The items they buy in the shop with their gold never go out of stock. To me, a player that does nothing but grind provides another name on the player list when I tap the "P" key, and that's it. It affects me none at all. I honestly don't care if that's all they do.
|
|