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Post by soulfien on Oct 28, 2005 20:35:27 GMT -5
yeah, it's a hurting someone's feelings vs. roleplaying issue.
I'm not talking about robbing someone of everything they own, only one or two items that are the most prudent.
Of course, you still need a reason to do the pvp in the first place, and a reason to take an item.
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Post by DM Grizwald on Oct 29, 2005 3:18:09 GMT -5
good example being, all your friends in rl are banites and lonely padrin is out for a walk..
banites: " hey theres padrin" Padrin: "oh crap, lost of banites" *padrin gets smitted and offered to bane*
hahahaha im just joking guys..its all for fun and just a video game!
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Post by marklar on Nov 12, 2005 4:15:25 GMT -5
LOL good to know you don't mind us slaughtering you
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Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 19, 2005 20:24:28 GMT -5
Don't worry, i'll get you guys back...in real life *mumbes something about them all being smaller and weaker and more prone to getting a good butt kicking*
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Post by wynter on Jan 23, 2008 23:49:21 GMT -5
I would like to add my name here and give this a bump,to me it makes good sence,especially from personal exp with wynter being able to run faster then most i usually get away when things go bad for me so it usually takes a few goodies to get me and it only seems fair for their effort that the evil person disappears and is gone for while,I would like to ask though about the looting other players characters,i myself have no problem with maybe the gold on them or some gems or what not but kinda dislike the idea of looting something special or expensive
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Post by EDM Entori on Jan 24, 2008 0:17:05 GMT -5
would follow the 500 coin rule no? ent edit: mark entori up for this list as well.. death by PVP = study break
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Post by wynter on Jan 24, 2008 0:36:10 GMT -5
i myself am good with that
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Post by dmimmersion on Jan 24, 2008 0:40:54 GMT -5
and I quote.. well.. copy/paste at least.
THEFT
Theft is allowed on the server, so long as it is roleplayed at all times. Whether by highway robbery, alley muggings or simple-pickpocketing, theft needs to be roleplayed. Simply standing near someone and spamming your quick-keyed pick-pockets slot is not acceptable.
Abuse of theft will not be tolerated.
Stealing a character's most prized possessions is also not allowed. The general rule of thumb is that if an item is valued at more than 500 gold, then that item MUST be returned. Use common sense. If you would not want it stolen from your own character, be considerate and find a way to get it back to them. Remember that there is a real person on the other end that may have worked very hard to obtain that item.
(Note: To clarify: The item must be returned before you log out, not necessarily immediately. However, should you keep the item you must provide the roleplay opportunities for the other character to 'play detective' or otherwise allow for the items return. A quick OOC tell to that player to let him know that you fully intend to see the item returned, so that he doesn't freak out in the event should you crash)
The prefered way of handling an items return is in character. The item can be 'turned in' to the law, the 'funny gnome' in the corner could be framed for the theft, or you could merely go with a quick "Hey, I think you dropped this back there..." if you are in a hurry.
If however, due to OOC factors (time restraints etc...) you cannot handle the situation in character either contact a DM or send a tell to the "victim" and arrange for the item's return out of character.
Just act responsibly on this and theft can be used as a means to foster some truly excellent roleplaying.
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Post by ancientempathy on Jan 24, 2008 5:39:13 GMT -5
*Stamps his name in*
;D
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Post by EDM Entori on Jan 24, 2008 6:29:23 GMT -5
just curious about the theft, I've seen that rule before. But I swear it was scripted into FRC.
anyways thanks immer ent
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Post by TermaForever on Jan 24, 2008 8:18:27 GMT -5
Ah what the hey...
*stamp of agreement +4*
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JCrux
Old School
Posts: 603
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Post by JCrux on Jan 24, 2008 10:20:39 GMT -5
I'll add my characters to the list. Not that I fight in many PvP fights anyway.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Jan 24, 2008 10:53:32 GMT -5
just curious about the theft, I've seen that rule before. But I swear it was scripted into FRC. anyways thanks immer ent It is scripted into FRC. However, there are a few items that can be pickpocketed from players still that could be over 500 gold (we had to allow them to be pickpocketable for quest purposes). It is still good policy to practice what Immersion posted.
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jaxstrife
New Member
Zachart Rogerthel, axe swinging extraordinaire.
Posts: 6
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Post by jaxstrife on Jan 24, 2008 16:47:12 GMT -5
Right, I can easily agree to this.
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irene
Proven Member
Posts: 226
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Post by irene on Jan 25, 2008 10:06:46 GMT -5
Hm.
I don't know what to say.
I really think that PvP is used to much and to often, instead of some other kind of solution.
PvP proves nothing but whom has the stronger build.... not something I find recommendable on a roleplay-server.
Reina has been in PvP three time since I started plying her, about six months ago. All three times she has been absolutely outclassed and without a chance. All three times it was instigated by the opponent. I don't begrudge any of those involved, but I don't see it adding anything useful to the roleplay either.
I don't mind PvP having more consequence that it has now, but I'm not certain I'll put my name here, as I fear it will cause more PvP. And all I see PvP do, is causing grief and discontentment.
-thinking it over-
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Post by Charon's Claw on Jan 25, 2008 10:29:06 GMT -5
While I don't PvP too often, even with having a character that could be seen as high PvP, I do think if handled right and with the right situation it can be valid RP and even a fun thing, although I do understand that some people don't enjoy it as much as others. PvP to prove superiority of builds is meh for me, but say in an RP context like *coughs* assassinating someone as long as they have ooc warning ((vows to do this more)) it can be nice. And I agree with all the points posted in the original post *stamps name here*
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Post by EDM Entori on Jan 25, 2008 12:58:13 GMT -5
personally I don't see PVP as being outside the realm of Roleplay, characters are going to disagree and their going to fight. Especially all the religious clashes there are on a server and different characters. personally I wouldn't even think about the builds. if its IC its good. I mean I'm against greifing and I'm against any form of being a bully ooc to lower characters.
but if you payed XXXX too kill *long list of names*
GO nuts!
but I would like to see some kind of repercussions to a PVP kill outside of a respawn and boom your back in isinhold, I'd really like to see that for monster kills too... if you stay in the fugue waiting for you gods, more then 20 seconds, I mean it is an RP zone.
as for builds..meh.. not everyone is the greatest builder, but depending on the situation lower levels can take down the higher levels...or even those outmatched.. and I don't say this theoretically I've seen it done.
personally I find the thought of any RP server without PVP, well how does it work? there are some situations where you can't RP solve it, and a good old blood bath works.
like think about cyric.. just spells pvping for your god!
without conflict and strife there is no advancement, but I do agree pvp here is pointless due to the system, therefore thats where the players have to get talking oocly and agree what will/ can happen if said person dies...
thats just a quick personal opinion and I don't think I phrased it quite right, but I hope it gives an idea, of my thoughts on the subject.
without pvp theres no conflict between players, and thus lower fun ratio.. conflict breeds fun, if everything was heavenly, there would be nothing to do, as players. without some DM giving some characters quest/ story/plotline/ npc conversation...
and that said I've not been in a lot of pvp, but I've been in my fair share, and it adds excitement to it all.
knowing what a persons build is, and not fighting because of it, is metagaming, in my opinion its using ooc information to curve your character.
now knowing how powerful a character is because your character has seen him/her fight. well thats cool..
anyways I've come full circle, and here this post dies.
Ent..
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Post by Charon's Claw on Jan 25, 2008 13:22:32 GMT -5
^^ I think you phrased what I wanted to say nicely
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Post by Grozer on Jan 25, 2008 15:44:46 GMT -5
personally I don't see PVP as being outside the realm of Roleplay, characters are going to disagree and their going to fight. Especially all the religious clashes there are on a server and different characters. personally I wouldn't even think about the builds. if its IC its good. You hit it right there... having been involved in more PvP than I can recall I cant tell you how many times the other player has sent me a tell or a message afterwards that they dont or didnt want PvP and they were not going to initiate it. But I think its important to realize that just because you dont approach someone, get in their face and draw a weapon doesnt mean you didnt initiate PvP. If your PC is plotting, planning or working to undermine/destroy/kill (you get the picture) another PC, you are initiating potential PvP. Mind you, me the player, I am NOT fond of PvP to be honest (yes I know its difficult to believe) especially if the opposing character has no chance or significantly lower level and many times I WILL try to find an alternative including in some cases I have completely IGNORED other PCs plotting against Ranan. However that being said there are many times where there is no other choice and the PC is backed into a corner. Anyway, I am NOT calling anyone out on this and I agree with Entori, but my point is if you really dont want to be involved in PvP then its best to stay out of all scenarios/RP which may lead to such an event.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Jan 25, 2008 16:38:57 GMT -5
PvP has, and always will be, a double edged sword.
I've been on servers that have had full blown, fully allowed, no consent or reason needed PvP. I've also been on servers where no PvP was allowed at all. I've been in one place where PvP was allowed, but you had to get full OOC consent before, during, and after initiating PvP (the after having to PM the DM crew as to why you initiated PvP and if you followed all the previous rules). And, of course, I've been here where PvP is allowed, and some guildelines are expected to be followed for the sake of both good RP and good gameplay.
To the first? Chaos, plain and simple. Constant griefing, severe lack of RP (though the place touted to be an RP server), and the server was ruled by those who simply had the most time and best combat character builds. Those who were better built could bully those who were not as well built or had lower levels and carried an arrogance that was borderline disgusting.
To the second? Some RP, but since there was no hostility and everyone had to get along, there was no tension, no suspense, no dynamics between characters. At the most you sat about a tavern all day or slew the local spawns until a DM came along to spice things up. And a DM couldn't be around all the time.
The third. Confining and sometimes lead to more headaches for the crew. Every time PvP was initiated a full log by all characters had to be provided to make sure everyone was following the rules. Seven times out of ten there would be some griefing issue of some sort, but only because of the accusation of one or the other not following the rules of.... first you ask the player if they want PvP, then if they accept you state you're going to initiate it, then you toggle them hostile, then after the results of the battle you basically had to log the situation to make sure everything was fair, then...
Yeah, it was a headache.
Now, the way it's done here on FRC may not be a perfect system, but so far it's the best system I've seen. Granted, as mentioned, death hardly holds any repercussions as all that happens on a mechanics level is you're resurrected. But that's what this thread is supposed to help with: Giving yourself a logical RP reason to not go back into another fight and giving all parties involved a cool off period.
I have heard on the breeze that lately there have been some of our newer members who have not taken to this spirit yet or were simply not aware that it existed. Though I'm not one to go and look for PvP myself I will put my stamp on this and encourage the community to spread this way of thinking to those who don't come to the forum as often.
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Post by amolus on Jan 25, 2008 16:42:38 GMT -5
I generally try to avoid pvp. If you can find a way to hurt your enemies without killing them, (and without risking yourself being killed ), then that is a much better way to go about things. Which is kind of pvp if you think about it Sometimes pvp is inevitable, even if you play a neutral character there will come a point where you will have to take a side, sitting on the fence only gets you enemies on both sides. It should all however be guided by rp, as previously stated. Anyway those are my thoughts.
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Post by Grozer on Jan 25, 2008 17:18:17 GMT -5
I generally try to avoid pvp. If you can find a way to hurt your enemies without killing them, (and without risking yourself being killed ), then that is a much better way to go about things. Which is kind of pvp if you think about it Note I added the underline for emphasis. Many people do... but whats important to keep in mind is you are not avoiding PvP. Your enemy may decide to strike back with PvP.
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mastersenge
Old School
[orange]Player Advocate[/orange] Scoutmaster of Evil Scouts Troop 1372
"I can't brain today. I've got the dumb."
Posts: 516
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Post by mastersenge on Jan 25, 2008 18:35:45 GMT -5
I figure I should put somethin here. I play a couple of characters that have a few enemies. I havent been in as much PVP as some may think but I have no problem with PVP at all. I have characters that would be pretty quick to kill someone before finding other ways out of it depending on the situation and if i did anything else it would be really OOC even though i do avoid some PVP confrontation for OOC reasons it never feels right. If people make enemies of a bad guy or make allies with enemies of a bad guy you should expect PVP could happen any time. The idea that the other players could be out to get me makes the game that much more fun.
I would also like to add that anytime my characters are killed in PVP I dont bring them back until something happens in game that would bring them back. DMs have always been good about helping with that kind of thing if needed but I have no problem at all spending a week or so not playing a character because hes dead and I expect they could even get permakilled one of these days depending on what happens.
I personally find conflict between players the most fun. NPCs are limited and stupid and DMs are godly and can have no real limits so fighting players is the most fun.
I just wanted to be sure everyone knows if you are lucky enough to kill my characters they wont be back without some in game reason so have at em.
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Post by amolus on Jan 25, 2008 19:19:48 GMT -5
Note I added the underline for emphasis. Many people do... but whats important to keep in mind is you are not avoiding PvP. Your enemy may decide to strike back with PvP. Yes, this is why I did'nt say I avoid pvp altogether. I try[/u] to avoid pvp, but that does'nt mean I'm going to be successful in doing so.
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Post by SlothfulCat on Jan 25, 2008 22:38:22 GMT -5
I can think of 1 PvP I've entered into here that I enjoyed, and it was one I initiated as well.
It was a duel between Irene's Reina, and my paladin Zoriya, when both were wee little mites in low levels.
Few things it appart: 1.) We agreed OOC what would happen before it took place if someoen should loose. 2.) We agreed IC to treat it seriously 3.) We held to that.
The result was, Zoriya won, spared Reina's life ((who was bleeding but stabilized)) because she was utterly defensless. And they havent fought since, they keep their distance, they don't push their company on each other to cause headaches etc etc. They also do not continually argue over the matter the duel was about. That being their faiths. Reina no longer makes snide comments abotu Sune, Zoriya doesnt get on her zealot soapbox to preach the evils of Umberlee.
Now I know not everyone does PvP as duels... but when you do... for christ sake a duel is suppose to be the end argument. You don't go and fight a duel.. then go back into town and keep squabling. Extremely poor form IC and OOC for the looser to do that. I would even say it goes so far as griefing from an OOC standpoint to click that respawn or enjoy a free raise then go right back to bickering at the victor.
And I say that because that is generally what I have seen. And while people may say "well my PC is chaotic" I think that amounts to the same as "I killed him because i'm evil" alignment is a tendency, not an excuse.
Guess the point i'm making here is the circle of PvP is extremly pointless when 1.) it circles for one thing and 2.) the situation doesnt change as a result.
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Post by EDM Entori on Jan 26, 2008 0:00:32 GMT -5
yeah you turn down a duel same a losing as well..from my knowledge
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Post by DM Hawk on Jan 26, 2008 7:57:34 GMT -5
But I think its important to realize that just because you dont approach someone, get in their face and draw a weapon doesnt mean you didnt initiate PvP. If your PC is plotting, planning or working to undermine/destroy/kill (you get the picture) another PC, you are initiating potential PvP. I agree 100%.
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arcadiadragon
New Member
the world does not revolve around me, I revolve around the world
Posts: 47
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Post by arcadiadragon on Jan 26, 2008 8:07:15 GMT -5
not too go to far off topic....this duel idea brings up one of my favorite scenes in recent memory in movies..Rob Roy in particular...cant remember the characters name but this lout challenges Rob Roy(Liam Neeson) to a duel over something petty i believe so rob being the challenged party is able to name the terms so they agree to fight till first blood..they draw their swords...then Rob walks up grabs the other guys sword and slides his palm lightly down the blade and walks off saying okay you win....great scene..which brings me slightly back top topic..sometimes losing can mean winning depending how important the duel or fight really is to you...as for me i loathe PvP but hey when in Cormyr it happens
also when i have died in PvP or PvM i usually take about 2-3 days off of either adventuring or fighting depending how emotionally involved i was in either actions
my two platinums
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Feb 3, 2008 15:16:53 GMT -5
I'm posting my personal PvP rules here (and these are not the view of the DM team, just something I follow).
I'm changing my policy slightly on OOC raises. If I PvP with you, and someone is offered an OOC raise, I would ask that you repay me with either a raise scroll or 1600 gold. I would do the same if you offered me an OOC raise.
If you are killed by Hroth in the middle of a town or common area that people would find you, I will offer you an OOC raise.
If you have 7 less levels than Hroth, I will offer you an OOC raise.
If PvP rules were not followed (i.e. targeted hostile after attack is initiated), I will offer you an OOC raise, with the ability to "go back in time".
There MUST be a legitimate RP reason to engage in PvP. If for some reason you get caught in the ugly crossfire of PvP with me (this excludes you sticking up for a buddy when Hroth has come to assassinate him), then you will be offered an OOC raise.
Given that, I play Hrothgar as mostly a permadeath PC. If you eliminate Hroth in such a way as that would force a permanent death, then very likely he will not come back. On that note, I do not expect any other players to be forced to permadeath. However, given my personal rules above, I may not offer you an OOC raise. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I would like there to be at least some realism when we engage in PvP.
I do try to avoid PvP at all costs. You should only really expect to be attacked if I have flagged you hostile (and even in some of those cases, I'll still try to talk it out).
EDIT: Please do try to consider the surroundings when engaging in PvP.
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on Feb 3, 2008 16:57:50 GMT -5
I was reading through these and found this reply that I figure deserves an answer.
When I started this thread way back in 2005, we had a lot of PvP going on on the server, and a lot of people complaining about the pointlessness of it. These guidlines have shown over the time since people began using them that they dont increase PvP, infact, they decrease it. They also add a point to it.
For example. If two characters involved in a scheme or plot involving dozens of characters, and one eliminates the other, then the elimintaed player is out of that particular plot for a bit. Think of it as playing Dodgeball. Each new plot is like a new game of dodge ball. If you get hit, you're on the sidelines until your brought back in, or a new game begins.
The other major benifit and slow-down of PvP is that you have time to cool off and dont go looking for revenge. People who adheir to these principals in PvP arent going to be out greifing one another, indeed, there wont be any need to since the victor doesnt have to worry about the looser showing up and getting right back into the same troulbe that started it all to begin with.
So, in the end, I think these rules have greatly helped PvP on this server, so I hope you will reconsider.
I would like to add one more "guideline" to this in the spirit of Greene's post. If someone is NICE enough to give you an OOC raise... dont get up and go hunt them down and kill them. That is just rude.
Manshin
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