|
|
Post by glittereye on Nov 26, 2005 14:11:13 GMT -5
Yesterday I was being trailed by two players. I moved to where they couldn't see me and I cast greater sanctuary. I then went to follow them to see why they had been tailing me. Immediately they saw me!
I assume this means you have to be hostile for the spell to work. Is that true?
Today I was going to meet someone at a location I couldn't afford to be seen going in. When I toggled everyone hostile I started recieving lots of tells telling me I was a bad roleplayer! The server crashed. After the server was back up I did the same thing to try to sneak to the meeting place. Before I could even leave the welcome room I was told I couldn't toggle people to hostile and to seek DM permission.
Unfortunately everyone will know what I was trying to do now. But was this ok to do?
I think the ones that got jumpy and started sending ME tells were the bad role players. THEY jumped to conclusions and went out of character for no reason.
One even claimed he was player killed in the chat room and all it was is him being turned hostile! I didn't attack anyone nor did I intend to do so.
So what should I have done?
|
|
|
|
Post by Talus on Nov 26, 2005 14:24:03 GMT -5
Well, from my experience there is no way he could have been killed in the welcome area, by another player. Even if you have someone set to hostile, and are in a No Pvp area they will appear green and be untargetable. The rules state that you are to turn someone hostile before you attack. Doesn't say you need DM permission to set someone to hostile. I have turned people to hostile before during RP just because I was worried it would come to blows, and wanted to give them fair warning, and so there spells would work right. I would say, these other people are misinformed. But that is just my opinion.
The only real concern anyone should have with people turning each other hostile is errant misclicks are very easy.
|
|
|
|
Post by b0urgeoisie on Nov 26, 2005 14:30:51 GMT -5
As the person that supposedly claimed I was PK'd in chat, I should probably comment on this.
I said something along the lines of, "I love it when people decide to PK me for no apparent reason". I didn't say that I had been PK'd and I think I even went out of my way to explain that afterwards. The rules state that you need to toggle a player hostile before engagement, and assumed that this was what happened.
I never claimed you were a bad RP'er for what you did, and really have no idea whether you are or not. What got me jumpy was the fact that I had never even heard of your character before, and have played on quite a few "RP" modules where people are more then happy to murder other characters over the stupidest infractions ever. I also explained that, though you apparently chose only to single out a statement which was misunderstood.
If you're signaling your intention to kill other players, I think you should expect others to get a little upset, particularly when they can see absolutely no reason for it. The fact that there are tells in game only makes this worse. Now, that doesn't make it okay.. but it's going to happen regardless.
|
|
|
|
Post by kenny26 on Nov 26, 2005 14:34:24 GMT -5
look at this from the other player's perspective:
he walks around with his low level character and think "i'm going to go easy today, no dangerous stuff, just sit around and talk".
the next thing he knows is that someone sets him to hostile. he has no way of knowing that he is merely one out of many. he can only come to the conclussion that he's being singled out for an eminent attack.
the gameplay doesn't tell him anything else.
think of how many people you startle before you turn them hostile. most of them will fear that a PvP fight is unavoidable...
|
|
|
|
Post by glittereye on Nov 26, 2005 14:39:47 GMT -5
Once again you jump to conclusions! I didn't say YOU called me a bad RP'er.
And yes you said "I love it when people decide to PK me for no apparent reason". Which people took to mean I HAD PKed you. Everyone is jumping to conclusions BEFORE ANYTHING has happened. THAT'S BAD RP!!!
"I also explained that, though you apparently chose only to single out a statement which was misunderstood."
Not me but Skunkeen Tone'Clay read below! And in all fairness you did explain but he was too busy calling me names to read that.
Fine so no more misunderstanding happen here is what happened.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:34] Lana Hall now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:34] Crom now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:35] Talon Andal now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:35] Kruhl now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:36] Sigmond Rathstone now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:36] Vindir Wende'dweth now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:37] Skunkeen Tone'Clay now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:39] Glewien Sellows now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:40] Vico now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:41] Louis Cypher now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:45] Solo Nightblade now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:45] Son'ya now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:46] Tedia Kalladin now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:46] Yasha Jars now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:51] Deserae Stormbringer casting Greater Sanctuary
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:32:53] Deserae Stormbringer casts Greater Sanctuary
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:15] Tedia Kalladin: [Tell] errr you turned me on dislike on prupose?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:15] Tedia Kalladin: [Tell] purpose*
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:16] [Server] You are now in a No PVP area.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:23] Son'ya : [Tell] huh?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:28] Vindir Wende'dweth: [Tell] ...
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:30] Deserae Stormbringer: [Tell] nods everyone on the server
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:39] Tedia Kalladin: [Tell] umm why?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:33:48] Tedia Kalladin: [Tell] that's bad rp when you dont' know me
Server crash then I log back on.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:49:40] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: ya gonna go hostile again?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:49:46] Done resting.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:49:54] Deserae Stormbringer: *nods*
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:04] Jargo now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:05] Cortiana Calaudra now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:05] Tedia Kalladin now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:06] Glewien Sellows now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:07] Solo Nightblade now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:08] Skunkeen Tone'Clay now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:09] Talon Andal now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:10] Lana Hall now dislikes you!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:12] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: is this in charactor?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:20] Deserae Stormbringer: once we get in
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:41] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: and there is a ligit RP reason?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:50:46] Deserae Stormbringer: just because you are toggled hostile doesn't mean Des hates you
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:51:11] Deserae Stormbringer: yes i'm sneaking around and greater sanctuary doesnt work unless hostile
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:51:25] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: doesnt seem right
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:51:29] Deserae Stormbringer: but i'm not planning on attacking anyone
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:51:46] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: there was a player that said he was pked
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:51:54] Deserae Stormbringer: Des just cant be seen in isinhold
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:51:55] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: was there a story reason behind that?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:05] Deserae Stormbringer: he lied
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:14] Deserae Stormbringer: he was set to hostile
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:19] Deserae Stormbringer: no pk happened
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:30] Deserae Stormbringer: at least not by me
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:32] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: maybe ya should get a DM to aprove this
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:39] Solo Nightblade: [Tell] bro.. u cant just put me on dislike
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:40] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: im cool with it if they are
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:49] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: just doesnt seem a lil right
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:52] Deserae Stormbringer: is there one one?
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:52:58] Deserae Stormbringer: no answer
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:53:03] Skunkeen Tone'Clay: not at the moment
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:53:31] Deserae Stormbringer: ok i'll just log off
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:53:39] green clover has joined as a player..
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Nov 26 12:53:44] Deserae Stormbringer: wasn't planning on attacking anyone
|
|
|
|
Post by glittereye on Nov 26, 2005 14:43:37 GMT -5
I understand that kenny26 and some took it well. The ones that upset me are the ones claiming i was a bad rper for no reason. And those that called me names in chat because of it. Some people were downright rude over nothing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Talus on Nov 26, 2005 14:45:26 GMT -5
Well hostile certainly will grab folks attention. Interesting use for Greater Sanctuary. My applogies Glitter  You did say Greater Sanctuary. |
|
|
|
Post by glittereye on Nov 26, 2005 14:47:28 GMT -5
Greater Sanctuary.
|
|
|
|
Post by glittereye on Nov 26, 2005 15:06:24 GMT -5
"If you're signaling your intention to kill other players, I think you should expect others to get a little upset, particularly when they can see absolutely no reason for it."
Toggling hostile doesn't mean intent to kill. Or at least that wasn't MY intent!
|
|
|
|
Post by Kolfrosta on Nov 26, 2005 17:00:35 GMT -5
If I may chime in.... Think about this from a roleplay/metagame aspect. Just because that little message comes up "Soandso dislikes you!" does NOT mean your PC knows this. That is metagame of the worst variety. How should your character know from across the server that they are being disliked? Also, why should your character just assume "everyone" likes you? It has become a habit between two guilds on the server to toggle each other to hostile as they log in. This doesn't necessarily mean one group is actively looking for the other. ( The Banite's feel they are being ignored, or not seen as a threat if we don't at least give them a little acknowledgement ) While I always toggle everyone my main PC knows is a part of the Banite guild, I have yet to actually go looking for them (they are a minor annoyance, in Shari's opinion, compared with the other things the Silver Shield has been dealing with ;D). But I do this just in case we *do* cross paths. Will Sharita automatically attack? Not likely. Will she defend herself? Of Course! Bottom line, being toggled to hostile does not rule out RP. If anything, it should encourage some, as your character who doesn't know this person that has toggled them, may want to know why they are taking a hostile stance against you. You can always ask, and if they attack for no reason or without explanation *then* you can begin to wonder about their RP ability.... |
|
|
|
Post by Talus on Nov 26, 2005 17:19:14 GMT -5
Well said Kolfrosta. I have been trying to put together something like that in my head all day.
|
|
|
|
Post by thogrimur on Nov 26, 2005 17:19:55 GMT -5
This is a Full PvP server - it is perfectly within server rules to set anyone & everyone to hostile. You do not need DM permission, and you do not need the permission/consent of the other player(s) to engage in PvP. PvP however requires there to be some legitimate IC/RP reasoning. *Note that this does not mean the "targeted" victim will necessarily know of the RP surrounding the attack...the RP could have been built up for days or more on the 'attacker's' end. If you feel you have been griefed, then PLEASE STAY IC while on the server and take your screenshots, then take it up with PM's to any DM for an investigation. If you are targetted hostile and then behave as though your are preparing for an imminent attack, that is bad RP. Being clicked hostile is OOC knowledge. your character should be going on about their IG business as usual. For those who may not understand, being targeted hostile does not mean you are going to be targeted for PvP. Nor does it mean you are not going to be targeted, but there are many valid reasons for the need to set folks hostile, and none of them need be explained to you OOC through a tell. Enjoy the extra adrenaline, I personally love being clicked hostile when I enter the server...makes me feel like I am doing my job. |
|
|
|
Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 26, 2005 17:28:40 GMT -5
I was just about to say the same thing. Your Character should not know that others have 'toggled' you hostile. You'll see the attack coming through good role play or if the characters have bad history. I mean if theres not history behind the characters then there is no reason there should be any pvp between them and hence you should not worry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Talus on Nov 26, 2005 17:38:50 GMT -5
Oh I would disagree. Just because you get toggled by someone you have no history with does not mean they don't have a good RP reason. A good assasination may have no connection to the person doin the attacking. Now granted there are not many assasinations on FRC, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 26, 2005 22:07:17 GMT -5
Ah yes but thats a valid rp reason though, forgot to mension that (sorry about my bad spelling if i make any mistakes)
|
|
|
|
Post by marklar on Nov 26, 2005 23:55:49 GMT -5
ok as a guy who always has 3 people on dislike at a time and i've had some greater sanctuary excitement too. i've been set to dislike all the time by people who have never seen marklar, i see no problem with setting someone to dislike if you've heard really bad things about them from people you trust for expamle. don't worry about those people who PM you about that just say that's right i love you. and with greater sanctuary can't you bee seen by the enemies just they can't attack you?
|
|
|
|
Post by moulinous on Nov 27, 2005 0:07:19 GMT -5
gotto add my two lions worth as well i guess. If you are hit with a dislike take it as a compliment, means you are doing something right and you are being noticed. Trust me, i am being noticed ALOT! take it as a compliment instead of anything else. I sometimes send a funny tell like ohhhhh, i am so scared. but my guy still goes on like nothing happened, because that is what he would do. Once i even spotted a higher level dude following me who I knew was going to attack m guy and i had little chance really against him. problem was i saw him ooc and not really IC type. I wanted to run...but would that have been valid rping? nope. and when he did attack, a huge lagg spike happened and my guy took it as the gods like me more then his smelly butt as he escaped,lol. so if you are toggled, be happy about it revel in the fact you made somebodys pc so mad, he now hates you.
Oh, and marklar, there is WAY more then 3 people on at all times who dislike you...(lmao)
|
|
Skunkeen
New Member
this one time....at band camp...
Posts: 25
|
Post by Skunkeen on Nov 27, 2005 0:29:25 GMT -5
I like a pvp RP server . just that theres been too many times in the past on any server where folks only play to cause folks other problems. and this is one of the many signs of trouble. it reminds everyone of the cliche im evil and this is what evil charactors do
the guild wars between different clans like the shields and the banites developed their reasons to go hostile and im sure they chat friendly ooc with each other so its more of just a sport with them. I dont think they just out of the blue set them to hostile without any in game knowledge of the other player
to avoid players reconizing you why not wear a mask/hood/different clothes/ different speaking style / different walking style
like most others do when they want to sneak around players. and use that spell to avoid the NPC's
again im alright with ya turning me hostile , but for the whole server I think its more of a attention seeking method in rp and ooc. anyother player can now claimed ya looked at em wrong in charactor and claim they have a valid reason to PK you. thus most likely leading to some forum post flames
please dont take offense cus im interested in your chars storyline now if I should ever learn it and become a part of its RP and im only trying to be constructive
|
|
racestark
Proven Member
R-E-A-D-A-B-O-Okay!
Posts: 241
|
Post by racestark on Nov 27, 2005 1:07:34 GMT -5
I got two folks who'll auto-dislike me and vice versa (only exception is I won't auto-dislike one of those two myself since my character still has a little bit of hope left for 'said' character) , but otherwise if someone happens to just set me on dislike I just take it as Talus suggested-- they more than likely misclicked me to dislike. But, although I've done it in the past to kind of clear any confusion when I first started playing, I won't send tells asking if this was the case.
If you don't believe there is a valid RP reason why someone would set you to HOSTILE, then just take it like that. Roughly 9 times out of 10, that's the case. If it isn't, well, maybe you'll finally find a good reason to leave Isinhold aside from the 'yada yada yada dungeon yada yada yada from here needs yada yada yada of the yada yada yada that dwell there.'
And as Thogrimur said, "Enjoy the adrenaline." That's what we play this, right?
|
|
|
|
Post by glittereye on Nov 27, 2005 1:17:34 GMT -5
"to avoid players reconizing you why not wear a mask/hood/different clothes/ different speaking style / different walking style like most others do when they want to sneak around players. and use that spell to avoid the NPC's"
If I didn't have Greater Sanctuary available then that is what I would have done. As long as I have a choice I prefer one that takes meta-gaming out of the picture. To many people look for excuses to why they recognise you even when disguised. Invisibility in one form or another is better.
"just that theres been too many times in the past on any server where folks only play to cause folks other problems. and this is one of the many signs of trouble. it reminds everyone of the cliche im evil and this is what evil charactors do"
The rule book clearly warns about what you just described. If I had caused trouble then the DM's would have delt with me. I've been around here long enough to know that. Haven't you? The problem is some people want to yell and scream before anything has been done that is wrong. FRC is not the same as all the other servers. If it was I wouldn't play here.
BTW, Did anyone say I was evil?
And thanks Marklar for the idea. Next time I'll just tell the first one that sends a tell the name of the second one that sends a tell and say THEY paid me to kill you. Repeat that with each of them and maybe I can get those that react to OOC information to attack each other.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 27, 2005 3:44:38 GMT -5
Im going to agree...disguises can be frustrating to deal with at times. Like lets say your in disguise (voice, walking, look, etc) and you say your fake name to someone, most of the times they'll think you're lying (like i've seen in the past) and say your a liar ic before even rolling a spot of a bluff or something. And on the other side of things, when your roll a spot and find that the person is lying/found a terribly made mask, the person you unvail then blames you for metagaming (its happened).
If i am to roll against a disguise, i usually make it pretty sure that he is lying and have other information to back it up. Im not going to walk up to lets say kam, when he's in diguis he usually doesnt talk much and tries to stay out of the picture, and roll a spot just out of no where. It ruins the whole attempt to be in a disguise.
alright im rambling and just typing thoughts as i go along...and im sure this doesnt make much sense because im probably the worst writter out there...aaaaaaaand done!
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 27, 2005 3:48:27 GMT -5
Oh, lets and theres also the stalking of the disguised person i hate too...how many people walk through towns?...lots...are you just going to follow some random person through town that has a hood? i hate that.
I've been caught following a random person...this was a while ago...though the person i followed was a hooded tiefling (thats what its name was). Ic i would not of have known that it was a tiefling because it had its back to me and such. DM busted me and since then i dont do it anymore.....again im rambling and going to stop
|
|
|
|
Post by Bobbertto on Nov 27, 2005 5:51:58 GMT -5
I live in a cardboard box.
|
|
|
|
Post by Grozer on Nov 27, 2005 12:02:51 GMT -5
Im going to agree...disguises can be frustrating to deal with at times. Like lets say your in disguise (voice, walking, look, etc) and you say your fake name to someone, most of the times they'll think you're lying (like i've seen in the past) and say your a liar ic before even rolling a spot of a bluff or something. And on the other side of things, when your roll a spot and find that the person is lying/found a terribly made mask, the person you unvail then blames you for metagaming (its happened). I dont want to hi-jack the thread but since this involves metagaming... why do you automatically get to roll a spot or a bluff when someone is disguising themselves? It's similar to putting someone to hostile in my opinion. The "disguise" is transparent (just like seeing the message "Sharita dislikes you!" ). In both cases you should only react if you have a VALID in character reason for doing so and by reaction I mean rolling the spot/bluff check. |
|
|
|
Post by moulinous on Nov 27, 2005 12:39:36 GMT -5
total agreement with Gonad...i mean Grozer... ;D, rolling a bluff or any checks right off the bat is bad. Has to be some reason for it i think or it would be strait metagaming.
|
|
|
|
Post by Talus on Nov 27, 2005 13:08:30 GMT -5
|
|
RPR
New Member
Posts: 42
|
Post by RPR on Nov 27, 2005 13:17:39 GMT -5
As far as i udnerstand the turning to hostile was made so this player could by pass a Biowere mistake. The GS should not exist and was created for the solo campaign. Its a spell that works without sence.
Friendly players will still see the char under GS while enemies will not. Such spell, that does not exist in DnD (the correct spell should have saves-sanctuary) should mantain the char out of sight from enemies and friends.
The only way to by pass this is to turn everyone to enemy or to RP it in game. I usualy ask if the char is under GS. If he is, i pretend i did not saw it.
Long ago, when i first visited this server, the Initiation of a PvP required both players agreement.
Later i read about a possible decision or discussion that wished to eleminate the agreement before PvP.
At the present time i do not know if a pvp will need DM authorization or player agreement.
However to avoid fallling in a Arena fun game, i do hope that all players who will plan characters that will tend to PvP often will be players with great RP responsability.
I say this because i wish to see death having a meaning. If a PC is killed it must have some influence in the rp.
So, i would ask to potential assassins or PKers to think before giving the final hit. Or even before initiation a PvP.
Kill only if you must. Sometimes is best to let the victim run in fear or beat him until he is unconsious.
I see no sense if a killed char will just come back to live minutes after the assassination. If this happens what was accomplished?
And if death is to have any meaning, a out of control PKer may eleminate the player base just for fun or some...RP reason valid or forced.
Good RP responsabilty and knowing to rp deffeat or allowing the victim to escape is a key in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Talus on Nov 27, 2005 13:23:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by heimdall on Nov 27, 2005 15:53:49 GMT -5
At the present time i do not know if a pvp will need DM authorization or player agreement. This is a full PvP server. Neither DM approval, nor player consent is required. Hope that clarifies the issue. |
|
|
|
Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 30, 2005 1:22:36 GMT -5
total agreement with Gonad...i mean Grozer... ;D, rolling a bluff or any checks right off the bat is bad. Has to be some reason for it i think or it would be strait metagaming. thats what i was trying to say.....guess it came out wrong....i guess my english teacher is write, i cant put my ideas into words |
|
You did say Greater Sanctuary.
