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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Aug 3, 2005 0:39:53 GMT -5
As most of you know we are currently engaged in a rebuild project of fairly massive scope. You may or may not know that we have been working (almost) around the clock to bring a stable module version under control.
Tonight, I feel that we hit a little bit of pay-dirt in several ways. These changes will be effective for tomorrows load.
I would like to mention that while we have all been working equally as hard, Jurivancer deserves the lions share of credit here, especially considering he has been the "tip of the spear" for the rebuild of the module. Many discoveries have been made in executing the rebuild, and these discoveries/corrections represent an amazing amount of painstaking work on all of our parts... hours and hours of pouring through script and areas seeking any small indicator of an issue.
Now, it's not so easy even when (understatement) the module in question is maybe 5 megs, or 10 megs... but FRC is 130 megs... man, that's alot of data! In any event, we have made considerable progress and I venture that about 99% of you won't see or feel any difference with the exception of the reduction of lag/crashes and generally improved performance.
Before I get to "the good stuff" I need to mention that we are really working on two projects here... One is the actually rebuilding of the module from the core to the seams, and two is the general improvement of the currently running module... both are teaching us enormous lessons about the other and we are discovering many things that will ultimately leave you with a better playing experience.
We are in the process of re-evaluating FRC in general and determining what can stay, what can go, etc, but I think we are now making massive progress without jeopardizing what you have all come to know and love about the server, and we are attempting to eliminate what you hate. Enough said there.
Without further rambling, here is tonight's progress, and this is all good stuff...
1. The area cleaner should now be functioning properly to remove all spawned encounters, left behind drops, etc, on the properly timed sequence. We kind of stumbled on this one while comparing a couple of scripts that I had sewn together... then Juri hit the money when he realized there was a line that distinguished creatures from plot creatures... now we are all set.
2. Jurivancer repaired a couple of crucial on enter/on exit scripts that were making way too many calls to the database, thus causing what we think were way too many calls to the lag monster... hopefully, this will have a significant impact.
3. I repaired (in total) our very crucial nw_i0_generic include file. I had to remove, replace or re-arrange multiple scripts to do so. This encompassed the "familiar" issue of familiars/dominated animals ceasing to function and should help to relieve a number of other issues as well. It turned out that this script was far too massive for it's own good, and has been successfully wrestled to the ground, and it's guts have been thoroughly stomped. Wurd.
It is unknown to some extent what impact this will have on henchmen, but it is my guess that they will now be working better than before... but this is also the bad news... if they are not, then it is time we remove them from the module until we can get some guys and gals in who will *really* work for you. We will just have to see...
Is the work done? Hell no
Will the work continue? Absolutely
Will FRC be rebuilt? Definitely... this is putting us further down the road to the 1.0 version than ever
Does FRC have to be totally rebuilt? Yet to be seen
How long will this take? Hopefully we are conquering the larger issues everyday and the impact will soon be felt... possibly as early as this weekend
This is getting long winded, so I will wrap it up with this last paragraph:
We currently have a brand new working core to the module. We are continuing to fix issues going forward for both the current version and the upcoming rebuild should it prove necessary.
I must mention that there are some areas of the module that will always have "lag" usually CLIENT SIDE GENERATED. We noticed during the rebuild process that Isinhold and Redmist for that matter are always going to be "laggy" in their current incarnations due to the size/scope/intensive nature of their environs. We are working to correct this, I am personally undertaking those rebuilds as well. This will take time.
Final suggestions:
1. Walk through town... use detect mode if you must
2. Lower your video settings... this will help with lag on your end
Well... that's it... perhaps my longest post ever, but I felt I needed to catch you folks "up to speed" on what is going on that you can't readily see. I think we are truly turning a better corner.
Cheers!
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Post by marklar on Aug 3, 2005 1:41:43 GMT -5
i..i don't know what else to say but thank you very much.
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Post by Gaurdian on Aug 3, 2005 4:51:33 GMT -5
*thumbs up* keep up the good work people, and know that no matter what we say and what we do we appreciate all the hard work and effort. Much kudos to you all. looking forward to being able to log in and see what the changes are like.
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Post by olwentheold on Aug 3, 2005 6:36:49 GMT -5
Thanks!
We all appreciate the endless hours spent improving FRC - kudos!
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Post by Aodhan the Unusual on Aug 3, 2005 7:46:23 GMT -5
Sweet! You guys so totally rock!!
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Post by soulfien on Aug 3, 2005 8:27:55 GMT -5
You guys kick rocks!!!
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Aug 3, 2005 9:27:27 GMT -5
Oh NOOO !!! My best friend lag monster !!! You can't kill him! So many times he has helped me in battle. So many times he has gave me a good laugh as I try to sit in a chair. I can't live without him! *shoots himself in the head*
Honestly guys, we all appreciate the time you guys put into this thing. Your constant effort to improve our fun ... well not many people are that giving of themselves. Keep up the hard work and know that we do appreciate what you are doing.
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Post by kenny26 on Aug 3, 2005 14:35:53 GMT -5
dumb question: what excactely is it you mean when you say "rebuild the mod"? do you mean create an almost excact but better functioning dublicate of the module that will replace?
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Aug 3, 2005 15:10:02 GMT -5
dumb question: what excactely is it you mean when you say "rebuild the mod"? do you mean create an almost excact but better functioning dublicate of the module that will replace? That's pretty much exactly what it means. It's a real pain when you have hundreds of areas, thousands of NPC's, monsters, items, etc...
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Post by kenny26 on Aug 3, 2005 21:45:38 GMT -5
well, in that case, keep at it. hey, i'll even support you and stand here singing like elan, the bard. ;D
*sings in a loud unforgiving tone while playing his lute* build build build the module...! build build build build the module...!
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racestark
Proven Member
R-E-A-D-A-B-O-Okay!
Posts: 241
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Post by racestark on Aug 3, 2005 23:00:57 GMT -5
Yes, a big thank you. In the meantime, I've developed a serious drinking problem while I yell at my computer. In the meantime, I've got good 'ole Jack to help threaten this insubordinate piece of hardware into submission.
By the way, did I say thanks? Thanks.
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Jurivancer
Old School
Retired FRC DM
Thats Right - Your Next
Posts: 386
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Post by Jurivancer on Aug 4, 2005 11:20:41 GMT -5
One thing I noticed last night.
I logged in, and there was the standard converstation lag we have all come to know and love, even with some of Justicars changes.
Regarless of said lag, I put together a big group of tough epic PC's and went on the hunt to see how bad we could get it. Needless to say that outside of one "bad spot" which I think is more client-side lag from visual problems, that our epic combats did not seem to add to the lag. The lag did not get worse and most of the party was able to fight respectibly (and cast spells) with the same conversation lag we had before and did not continually get the "stuck action" bug when the lag truly gets horrendous.
This may not seem like much, but to me it says we are working in the right direction. It does not mean we are going to stop our rebuild efforts, but it does give me a good feeling that our rebuild efforts will be worth the payoff.
We are still looking for any lag advantages we can gain in our scripts and such without losing the integrity of our world or the baddies who inhabit it. I am thinking that the henchmen are an expendable source of lag and may not make the cut and I am expecting a reduction in store inventories as they have also be tagged as good source of lag.
Changes will be coming. Some of you may like the changes and others may have to get used to them, but we hope to make the world better.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Aug 4, 2005 16:00:16 GMT -5
Thank you all for the encouragement... had to take a night off last night, but I will be back at it tonight.
I will be limiting the numbers of NPC's in certain areas that really don't need as many as are already there and working to reduce shops of redundant inventory.
This should continue to help things along.
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Post by Spooks on Aug 4, 2005 17:37:26 GMT -5
*cough* Such as Rolandy the rabid attack child? ;D
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Post by Keetena on Aug 5, 2005 4:57:12 GMT -5
It seens like unecessary sometimes, but I always feel necessary to tell that we love and apreciate such devotion to your creation and fun guys, but take care about go trhowing nights ok, no sense in get sick or something like thank you
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Post by Talus on Aug 5, 2005 18:45:38 GMT -5
Yes, a big thank you. In the meantime, I've developed a serious drinking problem while I yell at my computer. In the meantime, I've got good 'ole Jack to help threaten this insubordinate piece of hardware into submission. By the way, did I say thanks? Thanks. LOL Yeah I have noticed my bottle collection around my computer has grown as of late. Thanks agian DM Team for all you do.
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Post by Keetena on Aug 5, 2005 19:10:26 GMT -5
Well, what saves me is that I live with my parents, and we have someone to clean things, or other way I should be under an amount of million empty bottles and cups LOL
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 9, 2005 3:10:57 GMT -5
Well, here I am again, up very late and reporting on tonights progress.
I placed about 30 NPC's on spawn timers tonight. I also reduced our cached scripts to the bare minimum.
From this point forth I/we will be continuing to re-refine the module, while still introducing new content for the upcoming release of FRC 1.0. Hopefully, the efforts we are making will be re-doubled when the (exe) CEP 1.52 patch emerges, and we will see some real improvement as we move toward module completion.
DM Usurper recently contributed Marsember (and it is pretty incredible) and I will be doing the outlying areas... as well as finishing Hullack and some other guild housing needs that are long overdue. AnvilX recently contributed a very complex and excellent campaign against Malarites that will also soon be appearing in module. I will also be (finally) finishing my foray into parts unknown that I have been relegating for seemingly months now... and that will turn some heads too.
So, hopefully, a noticeable turn in lag will be seen and felt soon; as well as we try and complete Cormyr, for better or worse... for your enjoyment, as always.
I truly feel that we are about to turn a corner back to the positive!
Cheers!
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Post by Grozer on Sept 9, 2005 5:25:50 GMT -5
Great job and thanks for working late Justi.. for what its worth, I was on tonight from 2-3 am (PST) approx and the lag factor was almost non-existent. Mind you, there were only 3-4 of us which I notice is normally the case (few players = almost no lag), but one interesting note, there were periodic lag spike that practically brought everything to a halt.
I know it wasn't only me, since I could see Glewien and another log in and out several times, I assume to fix lag related issues. Then after several minutes it would greatly improve. I just wonder if it might have something to do with specific areas we were running through? Would that be helpful for you to know?
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Post by olwentheold on Sept 9, 2005 6:32:04 GMT -5
I know it wasn't only me, since I could see Glewien and another log in and out several times, I assume to fix lag related issues. Then after several minutes it would greatly improve. I just wonder if it might have something to do with specific areas we were running through? Would that be helpful for you to know? To answer the question on where and what - we were in the 2nd level of the Northern Redmidst crypts when a DM spawned some i undeads on us - which somehow cause me (and possibly others with me) to lag out (and die). Later, there was another spike just north of the northern reaches of redmidst - where it seemed to occur when things were spawning on us - if that's helpful at all *shrugs*.
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Post by surfinonblood on Sept 9, 2005 9:23:24 GMT -5
Thank you for all of your work.
From this noob to you DM's thanks ;D
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 11, 2005 23:39:14 GMT -5
Thanks to all of you for the feedback. I am now totally convinced that the cause of lag has been all of the NPC's that we have active at any given moment. This problem is being fixed, and I put another 20-30 on spawn timers tonight (I lost exact count, but it was alot). This project will continue until lag is minimized, or the vast majority of our hundreds of NPC's are on timers.
You should see another slight reduction in lag tommorow, and more over the next couple of weeks until it is gone.
Then, back to building fun stuff, like new adventures, areas, etc, and ultimately the conclusion of the module!
Anyway, this project should vastly improve the lag issues we have been having over the last few months.
Cheers!
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Post by Spooks on Sept 12, 2005 0:11:03 GMT -5
*nod nod* Thankyou Justi.
So can we have an updated guesstimate on FRC 1.0?
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 12, 2005 2:57:23 GMT -5
*nod nod* Thankyou Justi. So can we have an updated guesstimate on FRC 1.0? Well... this lag thing after 1.66 patch set us back a couple of months. Believe me, I would love to be in the perfection stage of the module as far as development goes, but... Soon, soon and soon. We are turning corners everyday now on lag, and I want to see how it looks at the end of this week. At that point I have DM Usurpers Marsember to add (which has been created under the new style of building that reduces lag), Usurpers addition to my elven town, multiple areas from DM Laurk, including a War Wizards Tower, a couple of player establishments, another addition to the elven city, and others... the city of Shade for example. Then we have Anvil X's malarite quest, which is actually 8 areas long... then there are my advances, into "parts unknown" (this is my way of keeping the locale secret), continuing several/multiple existing areas, portals, fun, fun, and fun... So much content that I can't really say more and I really don't want to spoil. I can say that I don't think you'll find another server that is trying to bring you so much quality content! *AHEM* We are close to the finished product, so to speak... and while I feel we will certainly revise even after FRC 1.0 (which more than anyone I am dying to see) that will not be the "end of the road". Our team is in for the long haul, and whether it be NWN, or NWN2 we will continue to try and bring you the best role-playing environments the community has to offer. To actually answer your question though, we are aiming for the holiday season 2005 now. So, deadline in stone... and we all really wanna see it... DEC 31, 2005. That way, everyone can log in on Jan 1st 2006 and have a fit that we actually have a fully functional module, with teeth! Here's to it!
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 25, 2005 17:57:04 GMT -5
I placed about another 40 NPC's on spawn timers over yesterday and today... this should cause much improvement.
I have also taken care of all the difficult places to convert these NPC's, so I now face a downhilll battle!
I should have all of the NPC's in the module on spawn timers by next week sometime and then I think lag will be history, for the greater part.
Right now crashes are down to a bare minimum, and this project is paying off alot better than I had thought it would in the first place.
I am really happy to report that I think we are about to see the last of major lag on FRC.
Cheers!
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Sarah
Old School
Son'ya the pure hearted one
Posts: 398
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Post by Sarah on Sept 25, 2005 18:05:11 GMT -5
(sara)
*cross my fingers and pray for no lag*
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henny
Proven Member
No Comparison. Period.
Posts: 218
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Post by henny on Sept 25, 2005 18:08:17 GMT -5
Well at least until a new version of either NWN or CEP come out that ruins all your hard work. Sigh. You know Justi, I think I speak for 99% of your server based family when I say, if you ever need manpower ... just start delegating the work to us. We're all behind you 100% and appreciate all the months(years now?) of hard work you have put into the module.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 25, 2005 18:21:48 GMT -5
(sara) *cross my fingers and pray for no lag* There simply is no crossing fingers to it... the more NPC's I throw onto spawn timers the less lag you are going to experience. It's just alot of work to go back and convert the previously placed NPC's we have onto timers. OK, that's a massive understatement... it is punishing, grueling, difficult (but rewarding) work. But, as I said the hardest part is behind. I think we will see really significant results in the coming week(s).
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 25, 2005 18:24:27 GMT -5
Well at least until a new version of either NWN or CEP come out that ruins all your hard work. Sigh. You know Justi, I think I speak for 99% of your server based family when I say, if you ever need manpower ... just start delegating the work to us. We're all behind you 100% and appreciate all the months(years now?) of hard work you have put into the module. Hey, thanks for the offer, but it's really something I need to do. I don't think another patch or anything will break the module because the most difficult issues are behind us. We have rooted out all the broken stuff, and the module should be back to running better than great in the next couple of weeks due to this lag reduction project. But oh the lessons learned... I think we are going to bring you one hell of a NWN2 module! Cheers!
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Post by kenny26 on Sept 25, 2005 20:18:26 GMT -5
WEEEE! ;D *has a heart attack and dies*
omg! you killed kenny! you bastards! >.<
anyhow, seriously, it just gives me the chills when i try to imagine a server of the same integrity as FRC running on a new up to date gaming engine...
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