In game clues and monster difficulty curves

[dorkling]

Im sure this will make more public enemy number one but it always pops in my head when I am playing so I figure i'll ask.


Alot of monsters are pretty much death traps that have no in game clues to their toughness or no build up of difficulty. Prime examples are the Frost Giant Priestess and the Bugbears on the way to redmist. In one example you go from fighting wolves to the bugbears and the other you go from fighting tough orcs to fighting a spell casting giant.

Is there any plans to add more in game clues to make up for the fact you can't get a general idea on how tough a monster is via the user interface? I'm sure there is a kick butt reason the giantess is there but I can't find it. Same with the bugbears.

I mean I love to explore and see the new regions but really most of the time I end up dying to something that spawns on my head
( still alot of trigger's spawn points are right on top of each other, though I must admit that it is pretty good compared to other servers ) or I walk into something like Bugbears or the 50 different versions of orcs and get owned in one hit and makes me wish I stopped exploring.

Heaven forbid I spend a couple hundred lions to goto different towns and actually leave the gates. I have yet to be rewarded for that tactic with something other then a respawn.

Seems the server spends alot of time fighting farmers but honestly it's so hard to predict monster toughness and i feel like I get punished for exploring. Heck when I find someplace new..I am almost afraid to go to town and tell anyone because I dont want to lead others to their death.

There are times I honestly feel like I should farm till I get enough loot to powergame so I can actually explore without getting myself or others killed.

I guess my big issue is I never seem to feel like "Wow, this is getting tough I better turn back now or something bad will happen"
Usually it goes from being too easy to a deathtrap without a warning or a clue.

Not sure what the answer is but I figured i'd throw it out for the big brains to figure out.

[megascorpion]

Perhaps asking other adventurers about that stuff before exploring is a good idea Generally walking into unkown terrain not knowing what to expect is 'very' dangerous...
And makes for good RP aswell asking more experienced adventurers about such

And ambushes always happen, especialy if you did no resach and simply walked right into frost giant territory..

Just my view on it

[Booze Hound]

the server is geared to partys.

find others to explore with. that way, when one of you pisses off the priestess and she stomps you, there is someone else to help out, or run away and get help, or run away and never see you again.

and yes, asking others is a fine way to figure things out. I don't know about you, ut if I was walking around, and saw a blue chick that was 4 times taller than I was walking around barefoot in the snow, I think I'd turn around and ask someone what she was all about before I pissed her off. that's just me though.

[EDM Entori]

I agree with vesh's player. Talk to other people and travel with those who have been around for awhile and know what your getting into.
but that being said, I've never seen a frostie on the way to redmist, maybe a dm was playing with you LOL

..

feel free to ask my character, he'll tell you what to avoid, maybe..

Ent

[Savage]

I have gotten to the point where I use extreme caution when ever I enter a cave I have never been in before. I find the possability of extreme danger in every cave to add to the thrill of the hunt. It I knew what to expect all the time. It would get veru dull very quickly.

[tleilaxughola]

I just use the "Death is my Mentor" technique and don't sweat it. It's only XP. Sylya's been pounded into the earth so many damn times, I'd probably be level 800 by now if I'd been more cautious instead of still stuck at 6.

[SlothfulCat]

And never... ever.... follow these characters into a cave:

Guldar
Helgrin
Aria
Grimnar
...

alright... new suggestion

1.) Dont let the dwarf drive
2.) Assume the worse
3.) Hey... its an adventure not knowing what to expect!
4.) Be careful who you ask... I can think of some *cough* who'd /love/ to tell you all about how easy things are.

[kaltorac]

I think you're forgetting the most important strategy of all.

RUN! ....... don't stop ..... RUN! ...... don't look back .... just ... RUN!

Then go ask about what you narrowly escaped from .... heh ... but then again ... I play a "poncy" elf.

[EliahPhos]

Haha. I thought back in the day there were guidesigns (for players such-to-such- and soforth)

Also, a bit off topic, but other than joining a party and looking at someone's HP (which is a very bad judge of level, other than massive differences), you can't tell their level... thus you can't really tell whether or not a DM will go a'smitin' for powerleveling, nor do you know what they could handle otherwise. The idea is "if they get killed instantly somewhere and you're a higher level and take them there, you're powerleveling"... well, squishy characters tend to get killed at their OWN level of fighting. That's why you need some idiot... I mean, strong, dependable meatshield...that's not quite right. Get my meaning? My rule has always been, "Five levels above, don't party"

On my first server(bless it's dead server heart), it was three levels, and there was a mechanism to show who was around your level (and/or who wanted to party), and a way to let them know and/or go to their location via caravan/whatnot/etc.

Okay, so REALLY off topic, but I think it addresses the same issue.

[Booze Hound]

actually, partying with people that are way out of your level is perfectly ok.

AS LONG AS YOU ARE PARTIED

we have an xp system in place so that players in a party that are more than 10 levels apart the lower player wont get xp.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD NOT BE PARTIED! ALWAYS PARTY WITH WHOMEVER YOU ARE TRAVELLING WITH.

many many many times, characters of widely varying levels travel together, and I actually encourage it. It teaches the higher and lower levels an amazing thing called TACTICS.

rather than running headlong into battle, the higher level character must consider the safety of the lower level character, and the lower level character must try to be useful without dying all the time.

but as a rule of thumb, when 2 such players are travelling together, they should be travelling through areas that are a challenge to the higher level character. A level 15 character going through the Bramblewood ruins with a level 6 character is not acceptable. A level 15 character showing a level 6 character the Marsh of Tun is awesome.

off topic, but a good thing to address for all the new faces here.

[EliahPhos]

logandoug said:

actually, partying with people that are way out of your level is perfectly ok.

AS LONG AS YOU ARE PARTIED

THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD NOT BE PARTIED! ALWAYS PARTY WITH WHOMEVER YOU ARE TRAVELLING WITH.

Oh. Okay. This was the confusion: Here

[DM Richard (Retired)]

By being in the party the max exp is limited to the risk of the higher level character instead of the lower level character.

Now if one person is doing all the fighting and the other is hiding leeching exp... then there is a problem.

If the two are not partied and the higher level character disables the monster and the lower level kills for the full CR difference of exp then we have another problem.

[Booze Hound]

yea, Greenie in that other thread is talking about powerlevelling. Just use common sense. If you are doing something that feels wrong. Guess what? it almost certainly is.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

*whispers to Boozer*

Psst ... that wasn't me ... I'm not a girl...

[dorkling]

I do party up alot and in both instances above the party got wiped out by the unexpected difficulty curve.

I love challenges and don't want things to be easy. Thats why I would rather explore and die then another trip to the kobolds, orcs or the well. But I have yet to find any reason but shops to leave Isinhold or Redmist. The other places are always empty and leaving the town results in a spawn designed for 5 person partys buffed with stoneskin and other spells out the butt.

When I explore the other towns which in theory most low levels can get to via the caravan I have yet to find some level balance around them. Its pretty much look at the shops and then leave the town and die. Everything out side of redmist and isinhold that I have found is for high levels or uber parties. (the one exception to this is the couple quests I found and enjoyed in Immersea )

I mean everyones complains about farming the kobolds and the lag caused by huge parties in Isinhold and Redmist but I have yet to find a place that I or a small party of non uber characters could handle.

It would make my day to find some place and get a group together and take like 3 caravans and have a fun adventure in a place none of them have ever been.

[Booze Hound]

quadhund said:

*whispers to Boozer*

Psst ... that wasn't me ... I'm not a girl...

BWAHAHA!

that's what you get for having a dorky smiley face avatar ya dork!

and Greenhouse and Goldilocks are close....I mean they both start with G that basically makes the words identical!

*grumbles and flips Greenie the bird then buys him an obligatory "My bad" shot of Bushmills*

[Booze Hound]

dorkling said:

I do party up alot and in both instances above the party got wiped out by the unexpected difficulty curve.

I love challenges and don't want things to be easy. Thats why I would rather explore and die then another trip to the kobolds, orcs or the well. But I have yet to find any reason but shops to leave Isinhold or Redmist. The other places are always empty and leaving the town results in a spawn designed for 5 person partys buffed with stoneskin and other spells out the butt.

When I explore the other towns which in theory most low levels can get to via the caravan I have yet to find some level balance around them. Its pretty much look at the shops and then leave the town and die. Everything out side of redmist and isinhold that I have found is for high levels or uber parties. (the one exception to this is the couple quests I found and enjoyed in Immersea )

I mean everyones complains about farming the kobolds and the lag caused by huge parties in Isinhold and Redmist but I have yet to find a place that I or a small party of non uber characters could handle.

It would make my day to find some place and get a group together and take like 3 caravans and have a fun adventure in a place none of them have ever been.

ok I am going to go ahead and say this:

the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

some people out ther emay remember my groovy dwarf Harr'Uk. Harr'Uk only ever got to level 7. At level 3 I was fighting Remenant orcs outside Redmist. At level 5 I was fighting them in the King's Forest around Waymoot, Dhedluk, and Eveningstar. I was making the trip to Skull Crag from Isinhold ALONE. I walked from Redmist to Suzail ALONE. Several times.

Did I die? yea sometimes. Did I make the trip alive? more often than not.

Why? cause when one thing didn't work, I tried something else. So that Hill giant squishes you in one blow? don't let it hit you. Get on a high spot and throw rocks at it. That's what Harr'Uk did. Was I a master rock thrower? hell no. Did it help? hell yea. Did it take a long ass time to kill a small group of orcs? sometimes.

and then when I travelled with a group of other characters, all they wanted to do was run the kobold caves again. So I dragged them kicking and screaming to those places I listed above. Did we die? sometimes. But more often than not, by ROLEPLAYING, talking, thinking, and trying to survive the journey, no matter how long it took, we made it, had some AWESOME adventures, and people were STUNNED by the fact that you could do a LOT, see a LOT, and make a LOT of money if you think outside the freaking box.


so the excuse that "I tried to go somewhere and I instantly die except Redmist and Isinhold" holds no water. Plain and simple. Try a different tactic when adventuring.

[Grimnir Gurnison]

Bah the number one survival tip is to always stand next to the dwarf and hope that whatever is after you will hit him instead.

The second is to always follow Grimnir into the cave. Always! And if he hands you a pick and tells you to start mining you do it. I think I've only died like nine times out of ten when I enter any cave and yes that includes the ones I know. Nobody can beat my death record. Well... Maybe Guldar but that's cause he's really lucky and tastes like chicken.

So remember follow Grimnir and you'll do fine ;D

[DM Richard (Retired)]

logandoug said:

dorkling said:

I do party up alot and in both instances above the party got wiped out by the unexpected difficulty curve.

I love challenges and don't want things to be easy. Thats why I would rather explore and die then another trip to the kobolds, orcs or the well. But I have yet to find any reason but shops to leave Isinhold or Redmist. The other places are always empty and leaving the town results in a spawn designed for 5 person partys buffed with stoneskin and other spells out the butt.

When I explore the other towns which in theory most low levels can get to via the caravan I have yet to find some level balance around them. Its pretty much look at the shops and then leave the town and die. Everything out side of redmist and isinhold that I have found is for high levels or uber parties. (the one exception to this is the couple quests I found and enjoyed in Immersea )

I mean everyones complains about farming the kobolds and the lag caused by huge parties in Isinhold and Redmist but I have yet to find a place that I or a small party of non uber characters could handle.

It would make my day to find some place and get a group together and take like 3 caravans and have a fun adventure in a place none of them have ever been.

ok I am going to go ahead and say this:

the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

some people out ther emay remember my groovy dwarf Harr'Uk. Harr'Uk only ever got to level 7. At level 3 I was fighting Remenant orcs outside Redmist. At level 5 I was fighting them in the King's Forest around Waymoot, Dhedluk, and Eveningstar. I was making the trip to Skull Crag from Isinhold ALONE. I walked from Redmist to Suzail ALONE. Several times.

Did I die? yea sometimes. Did I make the trip alive? more often than not.

Why? cause when one thing didn't work, I tried something else. So that Hill giant squishes you in one blow? don't let it hit you. Get on a high spot and throw rocks at it. That's what Harr'Uk did. Was I a master rock thrower? hell no. Did it help? hell yea. Did it take a long ass time to kill a small group of orcs? sometimes.

and then when I travelled with a group of other characters, all they wanted to do was run the kobold caves again. So I dragged them kicking and screaming to those places I listed above. Did we die? sometimes. But more often than not, by ROLEPLAYING, talking, thinking, and trying to survive the journey, no matter how long it took, we made it, had some AWESOME adventures, and people were STUNNED by the fact that you could do a LOT, see a LOT, and make a LOT of money if you think outside the freaking box.


so the excuse that "I tried to go somewhere and I instantly die except Redmist and Isinhold" holds no water. Plain and simple. Try a different tactic when adventuring.

I had a level 2 - 3 sorcerer that accompanied a level 2 - 3 warrior to Redmist no problem. Neither of us were buffed up much at that level and we mainly traveled overland instead of by caravan. You don't have to be high level to beat those orcs.

I've watched character after character run up to zombies in the isinhold crypts to hit them with a melee weapon. When the zombie get a hit in and kills the character I've seen all sorts of unkind things typed about our server. Then they go right back at it again toe to toe instead of using a missile weapon.

What I'm saying here is look outside the box. Try new tactics like DM Booze Hound has said. If your group is unable to cope with the creatures and changing tactics doesn't work try adding a different class into the mix. What three fighters can't handle maybe a fighter, a wizard and a rogue can.

[dorkling]

forget I mentioned anything I knew it was all going to get turned back at me.

[Booze Hound]

not trying to turn anything back on ya man. just trying to tell you how to make it better.

[Savage]

My thoughts and perspectives… and for those of you new to server

When you are new you go to Inshold and explore it. I figured it was like most places the farther you get from starting point the harder it gets. I explored every adventure I could find out of Isnhold before Then I went to Proksur and Redmist and started questing out of there and exploring surrounding areas.

I wont’ give any spoilers but I can tell you this. Just about every region you explore you will find a place where the challenge rating jumps up. I think this makes it more fun. Use your head when you come to new places. I believe this is done to encourage us to RP explorers in a realistic and cautious way.

In my opinion Redmist was designed to be the next leg of the journey in the exploration of Cormyr. It was the place you went next and after you had finished searching most of the Inshold area’s you would start there and find like minded like leveled players to search the new areas.

However the RP and plots have taken away Redmist as a viable meeting place. I mean it does not take much for anyone these days to join the server and be told, “Be careful if you go to Redmist its run by bad guys.”

In my opinion this has disrupted what I feel like is the intentional progression and flow of server exploration. This means you either wear out your welcome in Isnhold or jump to the more difficult places. This situation is the result of RP and this is an RP server.

Unfortunately this is a case where RP events have damaged the general dungeon crawling aspects of the server. The intent of the this server is RP not dungeon crawling.

[Theramin]

With regards to this I just have to say the 'Ruins of Ya'Nr' or whatever they are called,


*edited for spoilers*

-Boozy

[davrosmandrake]

savage said:

However the RP and plots have taken away Redmist as a viable meeting place. I mean it does not take much for anyone these days to join the server and be told, “Be careful if you go to Redmist its run by bad guys.”

In my opinion this has disrupted what I feel like is the intentional progression and flow of server exploration. This means you either wear out your welcome in Isnhold or jump to the more difficult places. This situation is the result of RP and this is an RP server.

I would disagree that Redmist is the only jump from Isinhold, yes it is by far the most convienient and has the most stuff per square inch than any other places but there other places outside of Redmist that you can easily get to.

For the record my highest char in the server is 17...or is it 18..either way she is quite tough...and you know what...SHE walks into areas and suddenly gets the popped kicked out of her and its not a DM dropping stuff on me.

You all want to know who to get chars up on this server, its simple, team up with other player and 'role-play'...all of my chars (well ok maybe not all but most) will stop and give people the time of day and talk about what they know, but I never get asked.

Rarely do I encounter someone new to the server that wants to do anything other than run around and level there char, which I think is a crying shame...if your char is at the stage where nothing around Isin is challange anymore then you should be over that, you should be working on character relationships (and I dont mean getting boyfriends/girlfriends here) or even your own character storyline if your that comfortable.

My chars would not be the levels they are (And I have at least 3 that are 10 or over) without stopping to talk to people and more importantly I would not have made the friends I have made.

There are no little prompts saying 'this is for level 10's and over' because this is a RP server, it was a RP server when I joined and there was still action servers out there and knowing the DM staff and creators as I do (or think I do) it will be a RP server long after they have all gone.

Basicaly, if your level 2 Hin rogue sticks his head in a cave and finds out there is a dragon in there...he should run away (or steal the ring of invisibility but Mr Tolkein might do you for plagerism)

[davrosmandrake]

xzamuel said:

*Also edited for spoilers* -Boozy.

hehehe That place has got me every char I have taken in there...I think I only have one thats been in and survived to know not to go in.

Watch posting spoilers by the way..you dont want to spoil the surprise for others

[Theramin]

It's not a spoiler, more of a bloody warning Haha.

[Savage]

davrosmandrake said:

I would disagree that Redmist is the only jump from Isinhold, yes it is by far the most convienient and has the most stuff per square inch than any other places but there other places outside of Redmist that you can easily get to.

I agree that Redmist is certainly not the only place to grind away those mid-level blues. I was simply saying they are not neatly packaged as they are in and around Redmist. I was more pointing out that Redmist was a gathering place for those seeking to expand beyond Isnhold. Now if you have a bad guy PC's you don't really have any problems going to Redmist and honestly just because some bad guys are in charge you shouldn't fear to use it. Unless your PC is easily provoked and/or has made enemies of the "bad guys" there.

They won't hunt you down and kill for using the Inn unless they are very bored. ;D

[nura]

number places round redmist that 4-8th lvl chars can go and have fun, theres fewer places outwith redmist isinhold area, and you would need to ask or be shown those in game but, isnhold and redmist areas are where you cut your teeth network make friends and adventurinmg buddies and meet the higher level chars you probably end up tooling about with later.

I never really had a problem with the deadliness of things you die at low levels its no biggie later on its pretty bad, as for having a few tough areas close to isinhold and redmist thats good too means theres something for the higher levels too when they pass through isinhold and dont have to always dash of to suzail or arabel.

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

Please understand that a great, vast - possibly mind numbing amount of thought has been put into FRC. Things generally work they way they do for multiple reasons and on on multiple levels.

I could probably sit here and type nearly a thesis on all of the reasoning for the way the spawns are set up, why the economy is essentially flawed but works and HAS to be that way, why the timers are set the way they are set, why we arrived at basically every rule over the last -- what's it been? 4-5 YEARS we have been doing this.

This is all you get, however:

It ain't broke. We ain't fixin' it. End of story.

[EDM Entori]

I think when I first got here I said the same thing. 9 months later.. I'm still here. The server is set up for a reason, and once you learn and explore you learn where things are on your own, and make mistakes that you pay for. but thats all about the experince. This server is still the best I've Ever played on. props to the DM team you all make this server special..

I still get that Warm fuzzie feeling when many as one appears in el drago form, and takes all my dragons blood, or when SCJen does her skit and rushmar bit, or GIANT JELLO CUBES OF DOOM. *Grins* its things like that, that make FRC, FRC. When theres DM envlolvedment it gives you that, wow this game is actually interacting with my character feeling, its not just set options like most RPG's. I mean thats the type of stuff that keeps people hooked. Aswell when you see characters like rannan hallowmien, milly, Sharita gallen, Phelzaron, Zaebros Deldhurn, Vinduil and Glewien. and I could sit here for hours and hours, torian, hroth, ailren, vestele. I mean the list and list and list goes on and on with great, creepy in some cases, but amazing Characters. and honestly Ic ould sit here all night and go on and on. spawns may seem tough. But you'll learn. and you'll also get hooked on the experince itself, where the very ACT of sitting around isinhold, waiting for something to happen becomes Exciting.


justi's comment made me give a little speech I just came off some great RP and decided to give praise where praise is due.

"it aint broke, I'm not going to fix it" - thats #$%@in' right.

to new players.. Get out there Get in peoples Faces. Be NOTICED. its something I do not do enough, and I regret it constantly but I see where I went wrong so I'll give the advice. Sure when your walking around and see a shinny electrical elemental and goo WOO.. (I died many times trying to fight those. in my early levels, and I posted a rant too) woo-- usually means RUN!

anyways my two cents. and to many many many I missed in my little rant you know I respect and appreciate you all, you make my experince here great.

Thanks

Don