Massive lag

[Gordy101st]

In the starting halls theres a sign that advises players to try and not congregate and cluster together in the same area unless completely unavoidable. So when you're lagging so badly your character stands still then warps to another part of the map you're in you begin to wonder why theres about 3 or 4 little groups of 4/5 players sat roughly 10 feet away from each other in the center of Isinhold on a pitch black night without any light, all talking about absolutely nothing.

I don't want to dig at anyone in particular but even if you have to break character slightly (though how moving INSIDE in the dead of night into a warm inn to talk constitutes breaking character I'll never know) to keep the server alive, its worth doing, if only out of consideration for the guys not MSNing in Isinhold. Why the DMs put Common Rooms in most Inns is beyond me too.

It confuses me as to why IC:

Self important wizards, ugly massive half-orcs, necromantic sorcerors, cutesie wootsie halflings/elven anime girls, all want to be in the same place. Not only that but they all want to be in the same cruddy little backwater town that has NO economic/political offerings for them. Theres a million and one places in the module where gatherings could occur so I don't understand why Isinhold is so rammed full all the time.

Redmist might not cater to everyones tastes because of the 'recent' (with regards to how I remember it from ages past) political strife, but Suzail has plenty of inns/temples. Marsember is literally BURSTING with taverns that are all completely empty and thats not even mentioning the smaller settlements.

It might disperse the playerbase slightly, but after the lag tonight I can't see why thats a bad thing honestly. Its crazy that the DMs have spent god knows how long building the module and then trying to get lag scuppered only for the playerbase to completely undermine the effort for the sake of a bit of "nice weather we're having" chat.

[Aodhan the Unusual]

*points to Gordy* See? We aren't just griping!

[Theramin]

I have to agree. I mean, it's all very well hanging around Isinhold. However, this was exactly what was happening in 2004, only then at least people had the curtosey to do it around that campfire on those logs. As it stands, people just stand around directly OUTSIDE the Inn when facilities exist for them to discuss what is, often ICly, quite sensitive business in a private environment.

In the UK at least, gangs of people standing on street corners, especially at night, get told to move along by the police

Anyway, when we first played everyone hung around Isinhold because the majority of players back then, IIRC, were relatively low level. So it made sense to hang where all the starter dungeons were. But now we've got epic level characters still conducting business around this little hamlet town.

What really annoys me that when our party went exploring the wider world, particularly the cities (Suzail, Marsember, etc.) they were barren of players. I think I've seen people there a handful of times, but mostly just to buy something then return straight to Isinhold. Redmist is better for population but that's probably due to all the metaplot going on there.

I really don't think there's any excuse for the higher level characters to 'stay' in Isinhold really when people have taken the trouble to craft (very nicely, I might add) massive cities like Suzail and Marsember for things to happen in. As Gordy said, Marsember is practically 90% inn and tavern, so arranging to meet at one of those would surely be preferable and more IC for most 'adventuring groups'. It's extra easy when higher levels can easily afford the caravan fees and even go straight there via the OOC lobby doors.

I know that we have not been (re)playing very long, but this is something that consistently glares out during play. And if it contributes to lag too, then that's just an extra 'bonus'.

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

I would like to agree with that, except my character depends on the Isenhold crowds to make money on a regular basis, since he isn't an adventurer. Also..DMs tend to come there and start events in motion which tends to gather more people as it progresses. There actually is a -really- good reason for the epics to hang around Isenhold, as there is currently trouble there with Zhents, and Redmist and they all want to help defend. I do my part to try and bring the crowds elsewhere by playing shows, but when I am not playing a scheduled show..I usually hang around Isenhold and play for a few coins here and there. I certainly see the validity of your point, that it causes lag, but..*shrugs* I have alot of fun with my daily isenhold roleplay, plus I am so low level it's not safe for me to go anywhere else, and I am likely to remain low level for some time. I am really not sure there is a soultion to this besides punishing people for hanging around and roleplaying, which..would kind of be counter productive to the playerbase.

[Helgrin Granitesoul]

that is fine.. hand around isinhold.. but do it inside.. if a dm is going to start something.. I think they will send a gaurd into the regal to get people to come out to be a part of it..

I have really made a conscience effort with Raven to completly try and stay out of Isinhold as much as possible.. The only time you will see him there is if he is walking through. Does that mean I miss out on alot of DM events.. Yeah.. But I also walk away from a bunch of DM events too becuase IC they just dont seem to fit Helgrin/Raven. And I dont play for that reason anyway.. DM attention is a gift and i appreciate it when it happens but never expect it to come.. And unfortunately.. that is what Isinhold has become it seems at times.. People wait there for the chance to jump on any DM event that comes along.

I personally wish the DM crew would never start events in Isinhold except for low level characters that are new to the server.. Unfortantly.. it is a vicious cycle.. People hang out in Isinhold because that is where DM start things.. and DM's start things in Isinhold because that is where people hang out..

Then again.. I am not a DM so what the heck do I know.. *grins*

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

I guess one partial solution would be for some other players to plan roleplaying events that don't require DMs. I play a show about once every two weeks that usually draws at least ten people out to an inn somewhere other then Isenhold. I have yet to play one performance that was actually a planned event there. Not everyone is a bard..but you could all organize like..tournaments, archery contests etc, totally without DM assistance. These kinds of things if held in the right place (small indoor areas) would help some. I am one person..if I can get a group to go somewhere once every two weeks, then if some others did so..well..say 3 more people started running something on their own..that would be three more days out of two weeks that lag was cut back some. Maybe not the final soultion..but as I said, something partial. And for the record I am not trying to claim I am the only person doing roleplay events without a DM, I realise many others that I know and don't know do the same. I go the extra mile though and make posters for the forums and try to annouce regularly up until they happen. DMs are normally cool enough to give me a DM shout to annouce the events starting if I ask.

My 2 cents.

-V

[bleah]

Gordy is person after my own heart. Why people insist on gathering around that backwater village is beyond me. All it really takes is a band of adventurers to make another inn/square/cesspit their regular haunt, and others will follow. I recall the Laughing Lass used to be a popular spot for a lot of older players (back in 2005).

Anyways, thanks for bringing it up, Gordy, if I was a DM, I would give you a magical trophy or something

[fred]

gordy101st said:

...
I don't want to dig at anyone in particular [snip snip]
cutesie wootsie halflings/elven anime girls

Well, I'm glad you don't want to dig at anyone in particular, because that might hurt someone's feelings.

- Mouse

[zizyballuba]

I'd like to thank Gordy, for making us feel so welcome. This being our second weekend of play, still learning the many faces, and the lay of the land.

I'm also sorry that my character (and friends) don't meet with your approval, but I think you'll be happy to hear we will not be playing here this weekend, so as not to cause any unnecessary lag that would spoil your gaming enjoyment.

To think I was trying to get more friends to come here, so they could enjoy all this worlds splendors, silly me.

Thankyou Gordy

[Toreavamp]

One of the reasons some highlevels/epics might chose to hang around in Isinhold, besides the threat from Redmist/zhents is it's the place to meet new people. In fact I was once even suggested (given one of my characters' specific role) that I hang her out more in Isinhold, she's level 12.
While moving inside could seem to help, it simply just means you'll get the same amount of many people inside the inn, an area which is already smaller and thusly easier clustered than the outside. That at least for me results in more lag.
You're absolutely right about the oppositions wouldn't be the logical choise to place together, like a necromance and a priestess of Lathander. How ever things aren't always logical, part of the fun is for the very opposite people to meet, to snare at each other and to throw offences. I do consider it fun, as long as it's done with reason.
I hope this was to some help given you some insight to why some of us hangs out there.

Love
Hanne

[davrosmandrake]

toreavamp said:

While moving inside could seem to help, it simply just means you'll get the same amount of many people inside the inn, an area which is already smaller and thusly easier clustered than the outside. That at least for me results in more lag.

Technicaly (sorry I am a geek) a smaller area has a smaller memory foot print so that when a player enters he has less to download or get from the server and therefore takes up less of the servers time.

As more people enter that area then time to get/download the information will increase and lag in that area will increase but as your starting with a smaller memory foot print in the first place this will take much much longer to occour.

Add to this that the Inn only has three doors (four if you count people porting in) so the need for the server to reload that area and create lag is less.

Now the outside of Isinhold is a much larger area to be loaded to your client and has way more than three doors into it. Basicaly the server has to reload the area to someones client when they come out of the healing house, the barracks, the tomb, the ruins, the smithy, the abandoned house, the Red Ravens, the Inn, Garrots, the Archer bloke, Giselles, the barn and all of the four entrances to the area from other places AND people comming in from caravans.

Each time this information is downloaded to a client (it may not be yours its being downloaded to) then it ties up what the server can do and lag gets created.

Add to this that characters with fuller inventories (a slow moving noob returning from a run into the ruins or the epic level merchant with 10 giziolion bandages in his various bags of holding) take longer for the server to process...put all these together in one area and....well we all know what happens.

Then of course everyone standing around talking about the weather gets bored and DM drops an attack on the town, more stuff gets put into the download equation, people cast off some realy pretty spells, lots of people decide to move around and our poor little server goes 'Bugg&r this!!! I need a lay down a moment' and promptly rolls over with all four legs in the air.

If I may make one suggestion to our hard working DM team that must be as bored with the lag as I am as it hinders them from doing things. How about changing some of location of where you enter Suzail and Redmist and Immsea from the welcome area to one of the Inns rather than by the caravan...this might help the higher levels -think- to congregate in other places.

Sorry for the ramble people I just figured I would have my try at explaining why this is happening...I hope it helps the people that have not fallen asleep or now have blood comming out of there ears

Toodles

[Toreavamp]

You are absolutely right, Davros. How ever for me I'm getting more lag the closer people are to me than compared to how many are in the area. Of course many people in an area means lags too, for me, but if I have to chosoe, based on my experiences of lag, many people close to me is more horrible than many people scattered around.
As for DMs throwing in some attack on town I'd think is a somewhat other discuession, but a possible solution to that could be maybe try and make less "go kill the thing raging around town; -again-" and more "go out save something/solve a mystery outside of town" events.

Another thing specifically for Griffon, is all those many NPCs giving out horrible long "speeches" when you talk to them, it's for me a reason to stay away as it seriously disrupts my RP seeing my ability to focus on things can at times be severely bad.

Love
Hanne

[Gordy101st]

I'd like to thank Gordy, for making us feel so welcome. This being our second weekend of play, still learning the many faces, and the lay of the land.

I'm also sorry that my character (and friends) don't meet with your approval, but I think you'll be happy to hear we will not be playing here this weekend, so as not to cause any unnecessary lag that would spoil your gaming enjoyment.

To think I was trying to get more friends to come here, so they could enjoy all this worlds splendors, silly me.

Thankyou Gordy

I don't know which nerve I touched but the funny thing is, I don't even know who you or your character or your friends are. If you're one of the things I mentioned above then tbh, I'm sorry you're offended, but its simply true. Having a level one character who is a super-saiyan, 18 year old, half fiend who happens to be simply beautiful but absolutely unapproachable (I take it that means people minmaxed and don't want their sucky CHA ability score to make their character ugly as sin) is rediculous and it doesn't fit Faerun.

Part of the reason I like this server is that its got SPECIFIC rules/regulations and most importantly LORE. You don't just get "oh I'm from that land over there, my dad was king, yeah" or "I came from another universe, thats why I can do this *invisible*". If you came from another place, you'll have to get in the source book, see what king is there and then realise you're writing out of your station, with the other place you'll have to admit you're a cleric with a certain domain and therefore a cleric of a very specific god.

fred said:

gordy101st said:

...
I don't want to dig at anyone in particular [snip snip]
cutesie wootsie halflings/elven anime girls

Well, I'm glad you don't want to dig at anyone in particular, because that might hurt someone's feelings.

- Mouse

Sorry but seeing level one characters running around with a biog the length of your arm saying how they came from another universe, battled an evil emperor and saved the world only to be dumped in faerun with mythical powers that they don't actually have on their char sheets is a pisstake.

Or seeing yet another "You don't know why but this woman is beautiful yet completely unapproachable, she makes you feel like you would trust her with your very life, in actual fact you've accidentally just proposed to her" bio in the examine tab. A pet hate of mine has always been other players telling me how my character feels in their 'descriptions'. Writing "this character is wearing X and they move in Y way" is an invitation to play out your character's response, but saying "You're character is scared of mine" without even giving a reason is 'I'm the center of the universe' bollocks tbh

Fair enough I shouldn't have griped about that in this thread, sorry for that.

Its frustrating when you know that the lag is being caused by people breaking the rules on multiple counts and theres not a thing you can do about it but log off and hope a reset has come and they've logged off when you want to play. The other day a session was ruined because of stupid lag death. I played out carrying the guy I was with's body to the med-shed and walking through Isinhold just made me angry, hence the OP.

I would like to point out however, I've said nothing personal here. I've not met anyone yet on FRC that I don't want anything to do with OOC.

[EDM Entori]

eh sorry folks, I've not had to time to read through this thread. But we've an influx of new players, the lag was good for awhile, I think once everyone is direct connecting again it should work itself out.

thanks

don

[tleilaxughola]

It would be a lot easier to accomodate your demands, Gordy, if someone would kindly explain how I am supposed to get ANYWHERE before level 12 without getting my head caved in. I don't even know where these other places are. I've paid to get to redmist and a couple other places through the caravan, but it's not like my pathetic level 6 sorc who dies left and right is rolling in gold, and most of the time when I do go somewhere else, hoping to find someone, it's a ghost town and I've wasted my money. When I have found people elsewhere they've been too busy for the likes of me.

Nor is it like anyone who is not also a n00blar like myself has any desire to "waste time" travelling with me. I think it's happened twice since I started here. The only contact I have with ANYONE on this server is in Isinhold.

So what am I left with, exactly? This rule is great for old-timers like yourself, not so great for the rest of us. Your policy is basically "screw the newcomers, let them rot so we can kick ass with less lag." Can't say I like that much, sorry.

[Haydena]

Well, my level 11 rogue doesn't go anywhere apart from Isinhold and Shallybrook (she's a hin, go figure). Simply because she can't without a group. She usually hangs out in Isinhold, because it's a quiet hamlet town, and that's the kind of place she enjoys to spend her time, along with Shallybrook.

You don't have to have oodles of time and gold to go places, just be a little forthcoming, if your character isn't that sort of person then send and OOC tell asking them if they'd like to go somewhere.

It usually beats sitting around Isinhold, just going anywhere. What my hin usually does is wait around for a little bit to find some adventure, head out and then hit the nearest inn for a drink and some serious RP, that way she doesn't do loops and stay in Isinhold all the time, although she does get a lot of business in Isinhold.

However it does annoy me a little how -everyone- spends their lives around Isinhold, as if it is the centre of everything at Cormyr, it's not even on any of the maps I've seen. I tend to spend most time in the place my characters feel most welcome, and Isinhold is meant to be the entrance to Cormyr, not the centre of all attention.

Rambled a bit there, but if you get any of that - well done!

[Gordy101st]

tleilaxughola said:

It would be a lot easier to accomodate your demands, Gordy, if someone would kindly explain how I am supposed to get ANYWHERE before level 12 without getting my head caved in. I don't even know where these other places are. I've paid to get to redmist and a couple other places through the caravan, but it's not like my pathetic level 6 sorc who dies left and right is rolling in gold, and most of the time when I do go somewhere else, hoping to find someone, it's a ghost town and I've wasted my money. When I have found people elsewhere they've been too busy for the likes of me.

Nor is it like anyone who is not also a n00blar like myself has any desire to "waste time" travelling with me. I think it's happened twice since I started here. The only contact I have with ANYONE on this server is in Isinhold.

So what am I left with, exactly? This rule is great for old-timers like yourself, not so great for the rest of us. Your policy is basically "screw the newcomers, let them rot so we can kick ass with less lag." Can't say I like that much, sorry.

No, the policy is to help reduce lag on the entire server. I'm not making demands, I'm pointing out the bloody server RULES and trying to prompt a little bit of reflection so people can think "actually, yeah. what the hell am I doing here?".

Its nothing to do with kicking ass. Its to do with a nights worth of play pretty much out of the window unless you want to sit there RPing recovering from death ( a pretty serious condition and pretty dreary to sit playing a recovery from) simply because you don't have spring attack and theres a bunch of people making the server lag for no reason.

I and the people I'm playing with tend to log out when we die because its serious IC *bleep* and none of us can personally justify getting up and being right as rain and just heading on out of the med-shed to carry on doing anything. Thats not even beginning to mention the OOC frustration of dying purely because of lag.

If you're on your own, log out and back in, see who else is a low level and try and bodge it OOC so you can at least get in the same place and do something together. Once you've met up, its game on, back IC. If your character is completely inept and incapable of getting on with anyone long enough to go anywhere, then sorry, but realistically they wouldn't survive, and the server is well-built enough to reflect that.

The OP wasn't even aimed at anyone who isn't a high level because theres reason enough for you to be in Isinhold. Please don't take this as an attack on you, its not. Like I said up there ^ to the other guy, I don't even know you or who your character is. Theres no need to be defensive really.

By the way, I've been back here playing for about 2 weeks I think. maybe 3. Old timers like myself? Theres about 3 people who even remember me being here the last time I played and none of it is to do with having a high level or even well known character. I played a rogue with no health, and I'm glad I played a fighter this time because the lag sometimes is attrocious.

[EDM Entori]

ok just read the last post. The whole point is that if everyone came inside, then you could find out from other players what to go. And level 12.. took me at least 4 months and thats fast, This server is very balanced. "before level 12 without getting my head caved in" Level twelve is rather high, for the short term. I mean its prety much past halfway to most of the higherlevels, the only people I know who are higher is Sharita and glewien. the whole point of this I think is that we come back to isinhold and most people go outside instead of the in the inn, and if everyone went int the inn, things would be better.


"So what am I left with, exactly? This rule is great for old-timers like yourself, not so great for the rest of us. Your policy is basically "screw the newcomers, let them rot so we can kick ass with less lag." Can't say I like that much, sorry. "

I mean I get that your frustrated with the lag, and the coin and stuff. But this is a Roleplay server, if you want to take a group and go start a party in immersea go right ahead. Isinhold is one place people go, because thats where some peopel go. I mean I agree we should try to spread out more. I'm sorry your "level 6 sorc dies all the time and is rolling gold".. well to me that just downs what the whole server is about. From what I know of roleplay the mindset you should have there, is that your sorcerer is working hard and has set goals for himself to accomplish, and hes a little low on money, heck we all get like that. This server is not a level and coin show. no one cares if you came up to someone and asked to go traveling with them, if you want to see cormyr. if your level 6 or 30. Heck I was out bopping around dying every two minutes with beloril and brin when I was like level 6 or 7. I know Alot of other lower characters, think oocly. Hey that guy is 6 levels above me I'm not going to travel with him. My character doesn't care, its not about xp. I don't care, I'll come along for a bloody death if its going to be fun. I mean there is a 10 level party span for a reason, anyone thats level 7 can travel with someone whos up to level 17 and as low as 1. I mean thats a huge range. getting out there shouldn't be that hard. Being afraid oocly, that someone is going to say no, or that hes not going to get Xp is not a problem. its about the characters and the fun we have with them.

I garentee you no one here has the opinion of screw the newbies to cut on lag. But the fact is, you want information you have to ask. and 95% of the time people in isinhold don't even talk we just sit around outside, and yes I'm guilty of it too. from now maybe some of us should spawn in suzial?..who knows and who can say what to do.

I just think some people miss the point to FRC sometimes, and its sad. But heck the lags not even -that- bad. I remember times when we crashed 4 times a hour.

all this is just food for thought.
Direct connecting, picking up drops (yes all the silk glands) and such will cut back on the lag, aswell, I doubt that having 10 characters in isinhold makes a diffrence, I know we used to get parties of 20-30 on one of my old servers all level 40-60 and go off to a certain area and mass spawned and meteor stormed and such wiht like 10 mages. it was hack and slash but I've yet to seet that kind of lag yet.

turning graphics down also helps.

anyways opinions and suggestions..

Ent

[tleilaxughola]

I'm not being defensive (or, "wasn't", anyway, probably am now) I'm just pointing out that your policy will remove the high levels from anywhere I can ever talk to them. The only interaction I ever have with non-noobs is in Isinhold, and you propose to eliminate that. This will completely shut anyone low level out of the loop of what's going on in the world beyond the occasional DM shout about some town I can't get to being invaded.

If your character is completely inept and incapable of getting on with anyone long enough to go anywhere, then sorry, but realistically they wouldn't survive, and the server is well-built enough to reflect that.

That's not what I said. You seem to be stuck on extremes. In one breath you disdain those with a min/maxed powerbuild, then in the next you scoff that if I'm so pathetic, I deserve to die. Some of us do occupy the middle ground.

But here's what I'm trying to say. If I go three screens toward Redmist, I get ambushed by ogres and there's no way I can beat them. If I head toward the mountain town, those orcs in the mountains will kill me before I can even blink. North any more and that dogheaded bastard will tear me to shreds. Yes, even if I have a party, unless I've managed to tag along behind someone over 12 (one of those 2 excursions I mentioned earlier took me to the mountain town, which was a blast).

I'm not allowed to avoid them, leaving spawns is a greater lagfest than being a bench turd, and is also illegal IIRC. So my only option is not to go there at all, or stand around for an hour waiting for a party that may never materialize. Now you're saying I shouldn't stand around for an hour waiting for a party, because I'm causing you and your party lag? That doesn't sound so fair.

If you're on your own, log out and back in, see who else is a low level and try and bodge it OOC so you can at least get in the same place and do something together.

You know, it's funny, but I tried this twice and was told on both occasions that nobody does this because it's metagaming, I shouldn't party up OOCly, that I should find a party IC or deal with being solo. One told me using the lobby for OOC info gathering was illegal and if I was supposed to know peoples levels they wouldn't have implemented the "everything's effortless" script. The rules seem to confirm this, unless I missed something? Whether it was legal or not, though, the result was the same, and it is certainly not "common sense" to do as you suggest, though I will try again in the future.

well to me that just downs what the whole server is about. From what I know of roleplay the mindset you should have there, is that your sorcerer is working hard and has set goals for himself to accomplish, and hes a little low on money, heck we all get like that. This server is not a level and coin show.

Entori, I am crushed that you would disparage my roleplay mindset after our interactions. Seriously, that sucks. I thought you'd enjoyed that but I guess you were just bored. I -DON'T- care about the damn gold. I am just pointing out that -because- I don't, as everyone seems to expect/demand of a "real" roleplayer, I have to take the caravan at exactly the right moment if I expect to find anyone else. If I do so twice in a day, I'm done. No amount of RP in the world will convince that caravan driver that my character sheet has a number other than "12" in the Gold: slot. I'm also apparently not supposed to hunt kobolds anymore, so I have to deal with orcs, and I generally break even with them at best. It's hard to accumulate gold when you have to keep using supplies to continue.

For the record, I am not protesting asking people to hang out in the inn, I'm protesting the idea that all the high level folks should go somewhere else, unless travel by caravan becomes free or something.

[kaltorac]

Few if any Higher Level characters simply hang out in Isinhold as far as I've seen. In the past ... newer players have complained of a lack of help and feeling lost in our large world due to a lack of interaction with others. Many of the higher level PC's I've seen take an interest in newcomers more quickly and aid them in there start here. There is also the fact that Isinhold seems in constant peril from the forces of the Zhentarim and Redmist ..... would you really expect the local "Heroes" to abandon Isinhold so easily? Also .... where better to find new recruits to each of our causes. If the elves waited for the newer players to venture into the Hullack and make contact .... most would be in their teen levels to simply stand a chance. Same goes for visiting their kin if they are dwarves. Then again .... my main PC Beloril .... will usually leave town when it does become crowded ... or at least as soon as RP allows it (hate crowds even without the lag). A bigger concern I think would be the recent bouts of appernt Ninja Looting in some areas. Several times in the last few weeks my PC's have traveled into areas that had active spawns already .... and in most cases they were significantly less than the PC would normally spawn. I'm not just talking about a single screen either. Last week I walked from Redmist to Isinhold after a ten minute wait for the caravan ticketeer to spawn .... and found every screen crawling with spawns along the way. The same thing happened for 3 screens of travel in the Hullack a few days ago. Lag is a combination of things here .... and crowds in Isinhold are certainly one of them .... but so is people who don't direct connect .... and people that chat VIA MSN the whole time they're playing also ...... or are downloading music while they play.

I also remember the severe lag here from just a year or so ago .... Lag just doesn't happen instantly. Most of us know that if we adventure in "windy" conditions ... there is a risk that things will go poorly. Go slow ..... go in groups. The majority of people I get tells from that have suffered a lag death did so alone.

Bah! ..... enough though .... I should leaves rants to a professional like Vestele.

[Gordy101st]

tleilaxughola said:

If your character is completely inept and incapable of getting on with anyone long enough to go anywhere, then sorry, but realistically they wouldn't survive, and the server is well-built enough to reflect that.

That's not what I said. You seem to be stuck on extremes. In one breath you disdain those with a min/maxed powerbuild, then in the next you scoff that if I'm so pathetic, I deserve to die. Some of us do occupy the middle ground.

I know nothing of your character, I didn't mean the ability scores etc, nothing to do with minmaxing (which in itself is only bad if the abilities aren't played) or powerbuilding. I meant if your character has the personality of a wet mop or you're antisocial IC. The disdain for powerbuilding when the disadvantages aren't played is consistently there with me, don't worry I'm not a hypocrit.

But here's what I'm trying to say. If I go three screens toward Redmist, I get ambushed by ogres and there's no way I can beat them. If I head toward the mountain town, those orcs in the mountains will kill me before I can even blink. North any more and that dogheaded bastard will tear me to shreds. Yes, even if I have a party, unless I've managed to tag along behind someone over 12 (one of those 2 excursions I mentioned earlier took me to the mountain town, which was a blast).

I'm not allowed to avoid them, leaving spawns is a greater lagfest than being a bench turd, and is also illegal IIRC. So my only option is not to go there at all, or stand around for an hour waiting for a party that may never materialize. Now you're saying I shouldn't stand around for an hour waiting for a party, because I'm causing you and your party lag? That doesn't sound so fair.

This isn't aimed at you though, thats what I was trying to say. I've not come on here and attacked you for doing what you're doing. If you've got a reason to be there (and not being able to go ANYWHERE else seems like a damned fine reason, haha) then fair enough, more power to you.

You know, it's funny, but I tried this twice and was told on both occasions that nobody does this because it's metagaming, I shouldn't party up OOCly, that I should find a party IC or deal with being solo. One told me using the lobby for OOC info gathering was illegal and if I was supposed to know peoples levels they wouldn't have implemented the "everything's effortless" script. The rules seem to confirm this, unless I missed something? Whether it was legal or not, though, the result was the same, and it is certainly not "common sense" to do as you suggest, though I will try again in the future.

At the end of the day, using the lobby to see who is realistically within your realms of opportunity for partying up with and going on a dungeon crawl isn't going to cause the apocalypse. Because this isn't an MMO you NEED to be able to bodge things OOC like this occasionally. You're not breaking character needlessly, you're doing it because if you didn't there simply wouldn't be anything but your character sat there wasting away in the Griffon. I don't mean see someone else is a level 6 and messaging them saying "OOC im level 6 we should party up and go grind". I meant you should just arrange to bump into each other somewhere and see if your characters would pheasably go on an adventure together. Being a purist to the point of isolation won't do anyone any good.

Nowhere am I attacking your ability to roleplay or anything like that. Take this response like the last one was meant that I'm saying "fair enough, you're not doing anything wrong in my eyes". I'm not having a go at you here

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Calm all your arses down.

There are several things that cause lag. And there are two different types of lag. Client side and server side. Davros pointed out the majority of reasons. Groups of PCs being in one area will cause lag, and if they begin opening and closing their inventories often, that also will affect lag. Buff spells generally create more client side lag.

Server side lag can be seen in a couple of things. Monsters take a while to react. Text takes longer to appear over your PCs head. You will have clicked somewhere to walk to, your PC will begin walking there, and then will be teleported back to where you just clicked from. Load times for screens are longer.

If you are seeing symptoms other than this, it is likely client side lag. Adjusting your graphics can help tremendously.

As for the OP, yes people should try to venture outside of isinhold. However, through the evolution of the server, a lot of emphasis has been placed upon Isinhold over the years. Unfortunately, it has created a place that everyone enjoys visiting. However, 10 people standing around just talking creates no more lag than 15 spawned monsters. So if you see things like spawns not being cleaned up, and loot drops on the ground, generally those create more lag. Also, players going in the inn IS a good idea. As has been pointed out, smaller areas generally have less things (ai, placeables etc...) to keep track of.

Direct connecting helps a lot as well.

These sorts of discussions generally do help all players understand implications of their actions. However, I see this thread going in a very wrong direction and it will be locked shortly if it continues on that path.

EDIT: Use of the tell function/ooc area to set up IC meetings between players for party play is acceptable. Using this method to find out where a player is, if they do not want you to know where they are, is not. Use of tells to find dead players and raise them is not acceptable. Knowing what level your party members are generally helps, but they do not need to tell you if they do not wish.

[tleilaxughola]

gordy101st said:

Nowhere am I attacking your ability to roleplay or anything like that. Take this response like the last one was meant that I'm saying "fair enough, you're not doing anything wrong in my eyes". I'm not having a go at you here

Okeydokey!

[DM Richard (Retired)]

There is no ONE answer folks. There is no RIGHT answer.

Listen to each other instead of blocking out each others concerns and come to an understanding of what each is saying. Quit twisting another's words around to play into your argument.

I challenge you to do the following:
Be considerate of each other.
Consider how to incorporate both views to find a solution.
Look at how the "new" solution effects the WHOLE SERVER.

[DM Richard (Retired)]

quadhund said:

Use of the tell function/ooc area to set up IC meetings between players for party play is acceptable. Using this method to find out where a player is, if they do not want you to know where they are, is not. Use of tells to find dead players and raise them is not acceptable. Knowing what level your party members are generally helps, but they do not need to tell you if they do not wish.

Yeah!

[EliahPhos]

It would be nice if there were an addition to Isinhold. A marketplace, perhaps, for gatherings of buyers/sellers/traders, and then the Inn obviously for socializing/planning, etc?

Isinhold seems like it's TOO advanced to be a backwater town. Usually they have outdoor (in a different area, mind) markets with the blacksmith, fletcher, general store, etc in one place. Easy shopping, lets the existing buildings go to better use.

That was just me thinking like a Builder, though. I could go on and on forever about small alterations I'd think would help, or be more interesting, or like to see. Sadly most servers don't take specific advice on how to change/run things, though the reasons are beyond me.

Anyway, I think the changes I've seen from two years ago are good... aside from the crazy mob danger fluctuations. I remember it being -hard-, but not so unpredictable as you couldn't get an idea of whether or not you're dead meat. I mean, adventurers, especially the wiser(woot, roll ability check!), or more knowledgable, would understand the dangers and know they'll get smacked down. My opinion. It's like my arse, it needs wiping every day or so.

[Gordy101st]

I'd find it really hard to even hear about improvements to the build when theres areas simply being ignored. People would rather stand leaning against the wall of Garrot's shop in the PITCH DARK (Seriously this is irksome) at night when its likely freezing cold, than go into the inn and get into the common room or round a table. Hell it wouldn't be so bad if anyone outside were sat around a fire or had 'light' cast anywhere but it just doesn't happen. Its really quite laughable and thats being polite.

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

*sigh* Could someone lock this thread please..it's become a rant!

[Theramin]

Surely it's more of a legitimate complaint rather than a rant some people have given IC reasons for being continually outside in Isinhold (yourself included Vxrazzn) but in most cases people seem to do it for largely metagaming reasons; either because it's simply convenient or because they want to get spotted easily by a DM. Going to that spot in Isinhold because you KNOW someone will be there to start 'adventuring' with is surely just as bad as arranging a meeting OOC. Plus those IC reasons that do exist are largely to do with the vicious cycle that has created itself, as was mentioned earlier.

The other reasons given, that Isinhold is going to attract a lot of adventurer attention because of it's status under attacks from all sides, is moot. The problem isn't that people are in Isinhold as-such, just that they are standing in exactly the same places all the time when there's no IC reason to do so, having long conversations in the cold and the dark, most of the time not even sat around the table, the campfire/logs, or inside the numerous buildings where discussions could take place. Don't fancy talking in the inn? Perhaps you could slip Garrot some money to use that big table he has and talk around it, it has seating for what, 8 or 9 people alone. I'm sure if you played it out that we can assume most of the NPC's wouldn't mind, providing the coin is right, people using their premises to conduct some business on.

If nothing else standing around on the same junction, EVERY time, usually ruins the suspension of disbelief for me completely. And that's all. It's not a rant, I just think we've been given a massive playground here and everyone is concentrating on the sandpit.

[Munroe]

xzamuel said:

Going to that spot in Isinhold because you KNOW someone will be there to start 'adventuring' with is surely just as bad as arranging a meeting OOC.

FRC has approximately 600 zones as I understand it. Arranging to meet someone OOC is acceptable as long as it isn't for the purposes of raising them when they have already died or are in some otherwise unsalvageable situation. Some players do not like to be found OOC. That is also their choice.

quadhund said:

Use of the tell function/ooc area to set up IC meetings between players for party play is acceptable. Using this method to find out where a player is, if they do not want you to know where they are, is not. Use of tells to find dead players and raise them is not acceptable. Knowing what level your party members are generally helps, but they do not need to tell you if they do not wish.

xzamuel said:

The other reasons given, that Isinhold is going to attract a lot of adventurer attention because of it's status under attacks from all sides, is moot. The problem isn't that people are in Isinhold as-such, just that they are standing in exactly the same places all the time when there's no IC reason to do so, having long conversations in the cold and the dark, most of the time not even sat around the table, the campfire/logs, or inside the numerous buildings where discussions could take place.

There used to be a big table in the open spot beside the little table in town. I'm pretty sure it was removed under the idea that if there was nowhere to sit, people would be less likely to congregate there.

xzamuel said:

I just think we've been given a massive playground here and everyone is concentrating on the sandpit.

I actually happen to like Isinhold. But then I always liked the sandbox too. Get some Hotwheels cars or G.I.Joes in there.... good stuff. (As long as nobody lets their cat poop in your sandbox.)

I think to a certain extent people do congregate in Isinhold less than they used to. I know certain groups favour towns and forests east of Suzail. I think people used to go to Redmist a lot more when they were in the mid-levels (8-14) but some of the current plot has discontinued that practice. (None of my characters go there anymore, for instance.)

I think part of the problem with this thread is that it seems more focused on the engine experience over the roleplay experience. Yes, admittedly, having archmages meet in Isinhold does run the risk of breaking immersion, but in order to roleplay people have to find one another. Isinhold is the easiest place to do that, and since it is where everyone started it is the most familiar to everyone.

Some of the DM plots do depend on Isinhold and that practice has been discouraged in the past but much like players, DMs go where there are people, and the best chance of finding people who are roleplaying is in town. Not necessarily Isinhold, but in a town. That town, more often than not, is Isinhold.

I understand you're pressing for OOC considerations to improve your playing experience. That's a reasonable desire. However, there are RP considerations as well (both player-driven and DM-driven plots), and while some of that RP could be shifted over time away from Isinhold, it isn't likely to happen overnight. There is always going to be some roleplay, both character- and DM-driven in Isinhold, and I could promise you nothing else, but, at least from a DM perspective, we can attempt to steer it elsewhere.

That having been said, I am running a plot right now where Isinhold is under threat of invasion by undead. So... There may be some lag yet to come. (I try to run anything in Isinhold responsibly, but I do love dropping bats on people.)