Us vs Them

[Razgriz]

Perhaps it is time for another of these threads to be started, so here it is.

Guys, rivals are there enhance your own character’s story and to give you something different to do. Without them, FRC would be simply about loitering semi AFK in GG, hanging out with your IC/OC friends, or also grinding dungeons all day long and waiting for the next DM event to start. A good rival of any alignment, can enrich your character’s story and development if you are willing to play nice with them, and -not- against them. Frost, Forsetis and several others before their time already posted similar thoughts that they had.

It is not about crushing in both, IC and OC superiority those that oppose your character’s ideals; it is not about complaining that it is unfair, and it certainly it is not about calling foul just because things did not go your way. Things are not perfect and they will probably never be, but they are not broken either. Even to this day the server keeps growing, new rules are being implemented and improved. What is needed of you then? Trust, patience and respect. It is unlikely that someone who has been in the server for years is simply waiting for the perfect opportunity to ruin your fun. It can happen, but those players do not tend to last long here. We do not want them and we do not need them.

Why is it that this has become an “Us vs Them” game? Why instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, the first reaction is to shout “cheater!”? Anger blinds and baseless anger is even worse. If you feel that something ingame or the forums occurred and it needs to be addressed by the staff, then make it known to them. It is your right to be heard. There are ways to go about these things though, and there are ways that are not. There is however no need to explain them here, I hope.

Recently, I have noticed that there seems to be trend to start “conflict RP” very late. Newer characters of every class, alignment and background seem to be caught here. In my opinion and from point of view, starting this so-called conflict RP in the late stages of your character’s story arc is not recommended. If you want to get involved in conflict RP and your character background, faith and motivations are all geared for it, then why not starting right away? “Because epics shut us down” some say. Well, just as those epic characters of every kind are there now, some if not most of them had to raise to the top and struggle while they did it. It is my personal choice and others can disagree, but in general, I tend to respect the rivals of my characters that were rivals from the start. Granted, there are different generations of characters and everyone advances in levels at specific speeds. Yet, there is something that has changed here. Nowadays, there are signs.

Grinding up to the top as fast as possible is not against the rules, but I would say it is against the spirit of them if the main motivation for this is to start conflict once your character is finally built and ready for it. It is very likely that your character could be perceived in a negative light if you do this. Sometimes it is unfair, but others you deserve it. FRC is not about grinding to start PvP in the late epics and when your characters are powerful and rich. It is about creating stories as your character advances and grows. This is a very delicate matter and perhaps some could feel offended now that I said it, but I thought it was worth to mention it. I am certain that much of the negativity would disappear if the spirit of FRC was maintained, instead of letting it twist quietly over time.

Everything that I type here is not directed at anyone, but it is mostly in general because I doubt that I am the only one who has noticed it. Back in the days there were OOC tensions between me and a specific rival that will not be named, I remember Padrin’s player telling Holance a conflict story about Ranan and Manhsin. Long story short... it was awesome and gave me something to think about. Clark knew why I was upset and he I think agreed with me that the reasons were valid. However, the way he had Padrin tell the story, combined with how he explained some details of past times OOC, made me realize that back in the day people in general allowed their rivals to shine, and that the main goal was not to destroy someone’s fun, but to -have- fun with them. Perhaps players in general were simply less paranoid, and simply different.

There are still glimpses and sparks of those times here, but often, they seem to be eclipsed by the Us vs Them mentality. Have some faith in the community and in your fellow players! Interact with them as soon as you can, so that you can get to know them before a difficult situation appears. It will be easier to solve OOC issues if people see more and know more of your character. When you make alts, try to have them join groups of players that are not your usual clique. Try to see how they see things and how they play. It is constructive RP you and for them. If they are noobs, be patient and explain to them how things work. If they have been here longer than you, try to accept their advice and don’t simply shut it down because it makes no sense to you. Anyway, game on.

-Merc

[Spirit of a Phoenix]

+1

Good post, Merc!

[Abii]

Great post, Sometimes I feel im the one who throws massive tells to one player(for sure he knows who he is) about tons of things and such to make everything in a right way, not against rules and to not make anyone 'sad' or such, tho still many weeks for me to learn, anyway great post Merc, many of us play different way of their characters along with their personal alingment and such, but besides this we are everyone one big familly of this server <3

[Thrym]

Having played on FRC since 05, I can assure you ... nope, it's always been this way. It's just that no one really cares to talk about all the less-than-fantastic villains after they're gone, so you don't hear much of them. People are glad they're gone and move on.
It's like when people think music used to be better a few decades ago because all the songs they hear from back then are great ... which makes perfect sense, of course. After all, why would they play bad songs from thirty years ago on the radio? They only play the stuff people liked enough to still wanna hear all this time later.

I can assure you there were PvP obsessed sorts overdoing it and people getting OOCly annoyed with them during just about any point of FRC's history.

[...]

That was a lovely and very important post Merc.


In times gone by I tried to give people an enemy and others a rival for the very reasons you've outlined. I also loved my character because she let me explore elements of my own psyche which I wanted to understand in a safe environment.

If anyone thinks I deserve pain then congratulations, your wish has already come true. I cried myself to sleep at night. I bled. I left for years. Trust me I've suffered all the pain you could possibly wish on a person.

I give it another shot now because people finally convinced me. My aims? To avoid taking part in the forum debates (lol fail) because this place has the potential to hurt me very deeply. to avoid altercations with the staff. To play with my friends, the people that actually want me here.. lovely people who are fun to roleplay with and understand and appreciate that I am not my character. To stick to myself when they aren't around. I'm not here to do pvp funtime. I've had my fill of it and I've had my fill of players who can't get their head around my style of roleplay. I only want to explore my character in peace. If people want to pvp with me then they should be my friends ooc. They shouldn't be waging a ooc battle after 2 or 3 years or however long it's been. I hate that crap and always have.

I surely made mistakes and I paid the price. I was playing a dangerous game but it's one that came with great rewards that not everyone will be able to comprehend. Now, I can be that bitch again if you force me and get me in a corner with absurd ooc tricks, but honestly I'm not here for that.

I absolutely hate fighting players. Someone once told me that a great roleplayer knows that a player and a character are one and the same. That statement made me furious because it's people who think like that which has caused me so much grief.

If all you want to do is kill my character, chop her into little bits and do everything you can to have her removed from the server and me gone then maybe ask yourself, why?? What are you getting out of it? I will fight because I am worth more than that. On some levels I am scum but not here. Here I am a roleplayer. I'm a very emotional person but also honest (which is kind of ironic). Some people either never understood what I was trying to do those years ago or just wanted to paint me with a brush.

Some people might wanna pick up on me here and argue or waggle their finger or whatever. Before you even touch your keyboard let me just tell you right now, clearly.. I don't care. I can't care because with caring comes pain and I won't take any more of it.

It's really hard to exist in a world that you don't understand, with people who seem to think differently than you do. I truly wish people would understand.

Stay classy and if you hate me just please leave me alone and I will leave you alone and we can all explore our characters and tell our own stories in peace. <3

[Animayhem]

Jun 22, 2017 18:24:15 GMT -5 ... said:

That was a lovely and very important post Merc.


In times gone by I tried to give people an enemy and others a rival for the very reasons you've outlined. I also loved my character because she let me explore elements of my own psyche which I wanted to understand in a safe environment.


I give it another shot now because people finally convinced me. To play with my friends, the people that actually want me here.. lovely people who are fun to roleplay with and understand and appreciate that I am not my character. To stick to myself when they aren't around. I'm not here to do pvp funtime.  I only want to explore my character in peace.


If all you want to do is kill my character, chop her into little bits and do everything you can to have her removed from the server and me gone then maybe ask yourself, why?? What are you getting out of it? I will fight because I am worth more than that. Here I am a roleplayer. I'm a very emotional person but also honest (which is kind of ironic). Some people either never understood what I was trying to do those years ago or just wanted to paint me with a brush.

Stay classy and if you hate me just please leave me alone and I will leave you alone and we can all explore our characters and tell our own stories in peace. <3

+1

[Slaughterhouse]

*sets Ban hammer on table* That is enough. Back on topic.

[Animayhem]

We are all here to play and relax.  We do not have to be buddy buddy and kissy kissy just respectful.

Remember we are from different countries, backgrounds, etc.

There are many whose rp I think is bad form or just lazy but I let it go as they are playing how they think their character should be.

I just focus on developing my character. I really do not care if others think I am playing my character "properly"


Yes rivalry can be good and spice up things as can some tensions but not at the expensive of a player making them feel unwanted on the server.

I try and take time to rp with people even if I do not travel with them due to level, alignment etc.  Even if its only for a short time.

There will always be PVPer, rpers and loners

I have leveled slow to have my character grow that's how I always played where ever.

I am a writer and enjoy the freedoms this place offers writers.

I have been trolled more times than I can count but hey its the other person's problem not mine.  I have enough to deal with in rl.

This is the first time in a long time I have really enjoyed a PW.

[DOT]

Thanks Merc .

[Malzaron]

Jun 22, 2017 18:24:15 GMT -5 ... said:

That was a lovely and very important post Merc.


In times gone by I tried to give people an enemy and others a rival for the very reasons you've outlined. I also loved my character because she let me explore elements of my own psyche which I wanted to understand in a safe environment.

If anyone thinks I deserve pain then congratulations, your wish has already come true. I cried myself to sleep at night. I bled. I left for years. Trust me I've suffered all the pain you could possibly wish on a person.

I give it another shot now because people finally convinced me. My aims? To avoid taking part in the forum debates (lol fail) because this place has the potential to hurt me very deeply. to avoid altercations with the staff. To play with my friends, the people that actually want me here.. lovely people who are fun to roleplay with and understand and appreciate that I am not my character. To stick to myself when they aren't around. I'm not here to do pvp funtime. I've had my fill of it and I've had my fill of players who can't get their head around my style of roleplay. I only want to explore my character in peace. If people want to pvp with me then they should be my friends ooc. They shouldn't be waging a ooc battle after 2 or 3 years or however long it's been. I hate that crap and always have.

I surely made mistakes and I paid the price. I was playing a dangerous game but it's one that came with great rewards that not everyone will be able to comprehend. Now, I can be that bitch again if you force me and get me in a corner with absurd ooc tricks, but honestly I'm not here for that.

I absolutely hate fighting players. Someone once told me that a great roleplayer knows that a player and a character are one and the same. That statement made me furious because it's people who think like that which has caused me so much grief.

If all you want to do is kill my character, chop her into little bits and do everything you can to have her removed from the server and me gone then maybe ask yourself, why?? What are you getting out of it? I will fight because I am worth more than that. On some levels I am scum but not here. Here I am a roleplayer. I'm a very emotional person but also honest (which is kind of ironic). Some people either never understood what I was trying to do those years ago or just wanted to paint me with a brush.

Some people might wanna pick up on me here and argue or waggle their finger or whatever. Before you even touch your keyboard let me just tell you right now, clearly.. I don't care. I can't care because with caring comes pain and I won't take any more of it.

It's really hard to exist in a world that you don't understand, with people who seem to think differently than you do. I truly wish people would understand.

Stay classy and if you hate me just please leave me alone and I will leave you alone and we can all explore our characters and tell our own stories in peace. <3

Honestly, LOVE having you here and don't wish you gone . I know how you feel about those trying to push you to make you feel like your character isn't welcome on the server or even yourself playing any character for that matter . In those cases I've learned to ignore their comments and keep on trucking . Asking questions talking to others and learning how I can be a better member of the community . Don't leave cause those who keep arguing against you without trying to help or talk one on one are just arsehats looking for attention and want to wave their hostility and real life feeling of unimportance around . Your an amazing role player and I enjoy every encounter .

[Malzaron]

Jun 22, 2017 15:27:27 GMT -5 Razgriz said:

Perhaps it is time for another of these threads to be started, so here it is.

Guys, rivals are there enhance your own character’s story and to give you something different to do. Without them, FRC would be simply about loitering semi AFK in GG, hanging out with your IC/OC friends, or also grinding dungeons all day long and waiting for the next DM event to start. A good rival of any alignment, can enrich your character’s story and development if you are willing to play nice with them, and -not- against them. Frost, Forsetis and several others before their time already posted similar thoughts that they had.

It is not about crushing in both, IC and OC superiority those that oppose your character’s ideals; it is not about complaining that it is unfair, and it certainly it is not about calling foul just because things did not go your way. Things are not perfect and they will probably never be, but they are not broken either. Even to this day the server keeps growing, new rules are being implemented and improved. What is needed of you then? Trust, patience and respect. It is unlikely that someone who has been in the server for years is simply waiting for the perfect opportunity to ruin your fun. It can happen, but those players do not tend to last long here. We do not want them and we do not need them.

Why is it that this has become an “Us vs Them” game? Why instead of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, the first reaction is to shout “cheater!”? Anger blinds and baseless anger is even worse. If you feel that something ingame or the forums occurred and it needs to be addressed by the staff, then make it known to them. It is your right to be heard. There are ways to go about these things though, and there are ways that are not. There is however no need to explain them here, I hope.

Recently, I have noticed that there seems to be trend to start “conflict RP” very late. Newer characters of every class, alignment and background seem to be caught here. In my opinion and from point of view, starting this so-called conflict RP in the late stages of your character’s story arc is not recommended. If you want to get involved in conflict RP and your character background, faith and motivations are all geared for it, then why not starting right away? “Because epics shut us down” some say. Well, just as those epic characters of every kind are there now, some if not most of them had to raise to the top and struggle while they did it. It is my personal choice and others can disagree, but in general, I tend to respect the rivals of my characters that were rivals from the start. Granted, there are different generations of characters and everyone advances in levels at specific speeds. Yet, there is something that has changed here. Nowadays, there are signs.

Grinding up to the top as fast as possible is not against the rules, but I would say it is against the spirit of them if the main motivation for this is to start conflict once your character is finally built and ready for it. It is very likely that your character could be perceived in a negative light if you do this. Sometimes it is unfair, but others you deserve it. FRC is not about grinding to start PvP in the late epics and when your characters are powerful and rich. It is about creating stories as your character advances and grows. This is a very delicate matter and perhaps some could feel offended now that I said it, but I thought it was worth to mention it. I am certain that much of the negativity would disappear if the spirit of FRC was maintained, instead of letting it twist quietly over time.

Everything that I type here is not directed at anyone, but it is mostly in general because I doubt that I am the only one who has noticed it. Back in the days there were OOC tensions between me and a specific rival that will not be named, I remember Padrin’s player telling Holance a conflict story about Ranan and Manhsin. Long story short... it was awesome and gave me something to think about. Clark knew why I was upset and he I think agreed with me that the reasons were valid. However, the way he had Padrin tell the story, combined with how he explained some details of past times OOC, made me realize that back in the day people in general allowed their rivals to shine, and that the main goal was not to destroy someone’s fun, but to -have- fun with them. Perhaps players in general were simply less paranoid, and simply different.

There are still glimpses and sparks of those times here, but often, they seem to be eclipsed by the Us vs Them mentality. Have some faith in the community and in your fellow players! Interact with them as soon as you can, so that you can get to know them before a difficult situation appears. It will be easier to solve OOC issues if people see more and know more of your character. When you make alts, try to have them join groups of players that are not your usual clique. Try to see how they see things and how they play. It is constructive RP you and for them. If they are noobs, be patient and explain to them how things work. If they have been here longer than you, try to accept their advice and don’t simply shut it down because it makes no sense to you. Anyway, game on.

-Merc

Also , lovely post 

[bloodalchemist]

Ok, So I get snipping the dead mom comment, but deleting drunken elegies other point? And Thyrms? You guys realize the root issue of all of this is a lack of transparency in things the staff does. It's been causing issues in pvp surrounding rule breaking for near a decade (that I have been around). Deleting people's posts, pointing out issues in the "why cant we all just get along" isn't going to really help this.

[Southpaw]

I think the only thing I can really add to this discussion is that so far as people's behavior, you get what you reward. If you want to see a more OOC'ly congenial mentality, then you need to find ways to reward it. If you want to see people be more willing to engage with conflict at lower levels, you need to reward it. This is the server where anyone hanging out in the starter town currently has more chance of being epic level than level 19 or less. You think my bard of mouthy-mouthiness is going to step out of character creation and say "boo" to someone in Greatgaunt? Considering the power of characters in town, the place is literally more dangerous than a dragon's lair. This is also the server where the slightest provocation is an open invitation to a sudden gank-style PVP beat down, and the only thing keeping you from it is keeping your mouth shut. We've spent years reading threads to the effect of, "If you don't want my level 35 assassiny gank stabber of doom annihilating your level 1 bard of mouthy-mouthiness in a single round, and leaving absolutely no trace by which you can ever come to know that your character got killed by the character who you knew was going to kill you before it even happened, then don't 'mess with him.'" (By looking at him crosswise.) It's actually been recommended on the same threads that people wait until they have some firepower before starting conflicts with just anyone. So now when I decide my level 1 bard of mouthy-mouthiness isn't going to become mouthy until he's epic in level, you're now saying, "Why isn't anyone starting conflict at lower levels these days?" My friend Merc, I respectfully ask you the question, "Which way do you want it?"

I'm saying all of this rather tongue in cheek, but the serious point is that I believe there are some pretty obvious and easy to understand reasons why some of the issues you brought up in the OP are the way they are.

[Razgriz]

Jun 22, 2017 22:33:25 GMT -5 Southpaw said:

I think the only thing I can really add to this discussion is that so far as people's behavior, you get what you reward. If you want to see a more OOC'ly congenial mentality, then you need to find ways to reward it. If you want to see people be more willing to engage with conflict at lower levels, you need to reward it. This is the server where anyone hanging out in the starter town currently has more chance of being epic level than level 19 or less. You think my bard of mouthy-mouthiness is going to step out of character creation and say "boo" to someone in Greatgaunt? Considering the power of characters in town, the place is literally more dangerous than a dragon's lair. This is also the server where the slightest provocation is an open invitation to a sudden gank-style PVP beat down, and the only thing keeping you from it is keeping your mouth shut. We've spent years reading threads to the effect of, "If you don't want my level 35 assassiny gank stabber of doom annihilating your level 1 bard of mouthy-mouthiness in a single round, and leaving absolutely no trace by which you can ever come to know that your character got killed by the character who you knew was going to kill you before it even happened, then don't 'mess with him.'" (By looking at him crosswise.) It's actually been recommended on the same threads that people wait until they have some firepower before starting conflicts with just anyone. So now when I decide my level 1 bard of mouthy-mouthiness isn't going to become mouthy until he's epic in level, you're now saying, "Why isn't anyone starting conflict at lower levels these days?" My friend Merc, I respectfully ask you the question, "Which way do you want it?" :)

I'm saying all of this rather tongue in cheek, but the serious point is that I believe there are some pretty obvious and easy to understand reasons why some of the issues you brought up in the OP are the way they are.

It is exactly about getting to know them and gauge their power, before giving their characters a reason to beat yours down. I would say that at least one among the growing epic crowd is still around your character's rank.

And I know nothing about removed posts here. If they were, it wasn't because of me.

[Southpaw]

The point, Merc, is simply that if you want to see behavior X, then you need to find ways of rewarding behavior X. Starting conflicts in the *starter town* is not rewarded/rewarding for a lowbie, if you ask me. The same could be said of a lot of the other issues you brought up.

[StabbingNirvana]

I think you're blurring the lines between IC and OOC, Rednails.

The IC reality is that Neth is a known cyricist, a murderer, and most importantly an outlaw. You decided this fate for Neth. For quite some time you were PvPing people. My earliest record of Neth in my reports is back in November 14, 2014 stating that several weeks prior Vel was attacked by her. My latest mention of Neth is on March 5, 2015 stated Neth was "resurrected and continuing on with her antics." On Dec 4, 2016 Neth was made an official outlaw from Cormyr when the outlaw system was introduced, along with Aris and Darius. Here's the rules for outlaws. frc.proboards.com/thread/26586/outlaw-status-provisions

Neth returned during a high period of Cyricist attacks from Abii's direction. Abii is a Cyricist. Neth is Cyricist. Neth is known to have last been seen alive. Here's the rule for disguises. frc.proboards.com/thread/26587/disguise-rules-guidelines

Here's what the Triad knows about Neth and how we go about the disguises.

From a post back in Dec 28, 14

"Both Netharmirth and Rarebril are known to spend time in and around Valkur's Roar, in particular The Tipsy Imp.

Netharmirth is known to walk the roads stealthily with her weapon at the ready. She may have pushed out into the Mistwood. She may also be wearing a disguise or a head cover. Speak to any suspect characters and identify her by voice. She is a lithe figured elf, with pale skin and dark hair who carries two blades of a length that may be large daggers or short swords. She also carries a bow of dark make. As she may have hold a Cyricist faith, her range may also reach out to Eveningstar which symbols of the Black Sun have been painted.

Rarebril is also known to frequent the Tipsy Imp. He also appears to have the ability to use wands which he carries tauntingly. The nature of a wand he brandished against Holance and myself is unknown, but it may be of sufficient strength to act as some deterrent in capturing him, considering the manner in which he was wielding it when he was stumbled upon by Holance and myself. He too may be sought in similar areas as Netharmirth and they may be discovered supporting one another

They are both to be considered armed and dangerous and with allies that may be unknown and unscene by us. They may both be making use of haste and invisibility potions so be prepared to use your own hastes and true seeing potions when pursuing. If pursuing with allies, to conserve on potions, have one member of the party use true seeing and to alert others of a sighting.

Also, we seek samples of writing from both of the wanted. On detainment, confiscate belongings and search them when able."

From a post on Dec 29, 14

"As with people on the run, be prepared to maneuver around disguises.

- Look under hoods.
- Use true seeing.
- Be mindful of equipment.
- Watch for known companions.

If suspicious activity is suspected, act appropriately. Speak to the person of suspicion to and be mindful of the face. Request the removal of hoods and other face covers.

Veiled hoods, masks, and other identity guards are not common place items in Cormyr. They are red flags. Red flags need to be followed up on.

Go out of your way to speak with figures who are of similar body type to those wanted. Thin, shorter females who cannot be identified immediately should be spoken to that you may verify an identity. Males of average size who cannot be identified should also be spoken to in an attempt to verify an identity.

Rarebril is known to carry a heavy shield and a scimitar. His general equipment is light armors, possibly ranging from leathers to varying degrees of chain.

Netharmirth is known to carry a bow with a dark shaft and two blades ranging from dagger to short swords in size. She generally wears leathers, most recently being black and purple. As her main skill is stealth, she will likely remain with a dark color upon her garb.

Both may have swapped out to other types of garb of varying colors, generally lighter ones to attempt to throw off any possible attraction. Additional red flags:

-Loose fitting robes.
-Items that mark one's training or status. Ie: Carrying a staff to give the appearance of a mage or elder.
-Hoods, masks, other face covers.
-Being mute.
-Being very still.
-Leaving an area when one who may recognize them approaches.

Again, red flags need to be pursued and investigated. If you see someone of suspicious activity, approach them and make mention of the bounty. Politely ask them to remove any covers without giving any perception of hostility. It would be best to pursue this method while with another, in the case that they refuse, your companion could get the attention of a guard and push the action.

A possible script may be but is not limited to: "Greeting friend. As you may know, there is an active Crown bounty set upon Rarebril and Netharmirth. To ensure the safety of the Kingdom and the people therein, I kindly request that you present your face momentarily."

Always treat those you encounter with respect and dignity that you maintain the highest standard of honor, including towards our adversaries."


Don't be so quick to jump into claims of OOC attacks. This is strictly IC.

[Razgriz]

Jun 22, 2017 22:51:01 GMT -5 Southpaw said:

The point, Merc, is simply that if you want to see behavior X, then you need to find ways of rewarding behavior X. Starting conflicts in the *starter town* is not rewarded/rewarding for a lowbie, if you ask me. The same could be said of a lot of the other issues you brought up.

I can think of some, but they all depend on things that are not always possible.

Anyway, Im not saying that I disagree with you. I actually agree to some extent.

[Syd's Blue Sky]

I tend to become friends with the people who plays the PCs my PC hates. Is it natural? *bleep-itty-bleep* no. I go out of my way to be cool with them. I force it, and I have never (okay hardly ever) failed to find those players worth the effort I spent to make it happen. Razgriz is a great example. So is StabbingNirvana. These two guys have helped make my time here worth spending for years. If I had to dislike everyone Card disliked I would just not play here.

It's a post which has been made a million times, but always good nonetheless.

As for Thrym's point, I echo the wisdom of Eugene Hütz. For not the first time on this forum.

There was never any good old days
They are today, they are tomorrow
It's a stupid thing we say
Cursing tomorrow with sorrow




Also I <3 u ...

[Syd's Blue Sky]

Jun 22, 2017 22:25:58 GMT -5 bloodalchemist said:

Ok, So I get snipping the dead mom comment, but deleting drunken elegies other point? And Thyrms? You guys realize the root issue of all of this is a lack of transparency in things the staff does. It's been causing issues in pvp surrounding rule breaking for near a decade (that I have been around). Deleting people's posts, pointing out issues in the "why cant we all just get along" isn't going to really help this.

Posts don't generally get deleted. They are archived in DM only area of the forum.

Blam. Transparency.

Also, I don't think the lack of transparency is part of this particular problem. It's an entirely different problem unto itself.

[Kolfrosta]

Excellent post merc.

I would add that conflict is not always combat. People can oppose each other using their wits (or lack there of).

[Syd's Blue Sky]

Jun 23, 2017 1:03:22 GMT -5 Kolfrosta said:

Excellent post merc.

I would add that conflict is not always combat. People can oppose each other using their wits (or lack there of).

I think we just had a thread about this. Someone should link it... I'm sure I posted, and I'm sure it was EPHEMERALLY PORTENTOUS.

LadyFrost also posted... I mean, I'm sure that was okay too.

[hellscream123]

Make friends woth eveyone oocly. Seemed to work for me *shrug* mind you i also am an active pvp avoider. Still the concept remains.

If we're all friends outside of our characters. Then the actions of our characters can be second person instead of 3rd or 1st dependant on mentality.

Play from 2nd person whenever you can. Know what size shoe your character wears. How and why they walk. Tell everyone how anx why when needed. But stay in your computer chair.

Its really freaking hard. But leaves the drama with your (insert witty character joke here)

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2017 18:24:15 GMT -5 ... said:

I don't care. I can't care because with caring comes pain and I won't take any more of it.

I so wish I did not care anymore.

[...]

It is OOC. You can't just pick Neth out of a crowded GG.. but maybe you can. I dunno and I don't care. It's your logic after all. My logic says no. Your logic says yes. We're at an impasse. Endless argument ensue.

I'm not fighting you anymore on this platform because this platform makes no sense to me. There are too many things to consider. In a purely in character world then Neth would be free to murder people and Veli would be free to check every single elf in Cormyr. We'd have a blast! Things have changed, however. I can't play like that because of ooc constraints, I get grief, I get *chickenwing*, I get people who don't understand and don't want to understand. I can't do it. I can't play my character like I used to. I'm sorry but I'm not here for you. You won. You've defeated her. I can't be your enemy this time around. I'm going in a different direction with my character now, one that's more inward focused. I'm exploring my character and playing with my friends, end of.

This server failed me and I failed it.

After all this time, you need to ease up on me man.

From what I can see, there's fresh blood for you to gorge on. People who have yet to become as jaded by this system as I have become. There are different flavors of evils, the safe sorts that are far less reckless than I. Some people may think that it's the "better" way to play evil. I say that it's simply the different way to play it.

You have two choices.
Stick to your character 100% and do everything you can both ic and ooc to pick on me and in response I will stick to my character 100% and pvp like a psychopath. If you're going to use every rule to your advantage to prevent me from existing then I will do the same.

OR

Let me attempt to play in this new way. Alone.

<3

[...]

Jun 23, 2017 5:32:21 GMT -5 @lilithstarling said:

Jun 22, 2017 18:24:15 GMT -5 ... said:

I don't care. I can't care because with caring comes pain and I won't take any more of it.

I so wish I did not care anymore.

Of all the people here, you are the one who has the most reason to hate me Lilith. I feel that what happened between us was brutal and yet also perhaps the highlight of roleplay I've had on this server. That means a great deal to me and so I am both incredibly thankful to you while simultaneously eternally sorry.

<3

[Penguin]

FRC exists because it was established as a server where all players can find a role for themselves, and accept the ways in which others play their own characters. There are conflicts from this, both IC, and OOC, because no one plays the same, nor do we always agree with each others choices. We survive however because when we find ourselves in a state of disagreement, we discuss it and come to a resolution. If a resolution between two characters is not in the cards, then the players of those characters can still come to an understanding with each other than their characters will pass each other by when possible, and not maliciously target each other, accepting that there may be times when conflict is inevitable due to groups, companions, DM events, etc. At those times, players are expected to accept each other with good grace.

There is no "them" on this server. There is only "us." And what we make of it.

[Aoi]

Konban wa.

I would like....no i need to say something to this. Leveling up to maximum and then bullying or killing other people is in my eyes non-rp. Why? Easy, because i have been here for almost a full year now and watched characters leveling up to 30 where my highest character is "only" 14. I did and do a lot of RP whilst others grind every dungeon they can do. I barely or never get to experience a complete DM-Quest here.
And that hasn't changed in months, because a have become opportunity-player. But if i have to be "afraid", that i get caught by a level 30 and get killed  as soon as i log in and want to have a bit fun with my friends, something is wrong. I think that objects the rule that says, everyone should have fun, but not on the expense of others.

Like stated several times here, we are here to have fun. But many people don't think about one fact: Everyone has fun in their own way and tastes are different. One has fun beating up others and looking for "conflicts" all the time or gettong beaten up. Others have fun to have relaxed or creative or even funny RP - without beeing interrupted. Yes, funny means also something else for everyone, i understand that. I for example chose a peaceful main-character to offer a change to all the beating up and killing to others. I know, in that way i level slowly, but i have things i do for fun and a mix between adventuring and RP, i feel comfortable with. Still, this is also meant to be a RP-Server, not a hack & slay server, i thought.

At this point i would like to pick up this as it made me think about the possibilities that are given to players here and how good or bad RP-player types can play there characters here.

Jun 23, 2017 10:00:09 GMT -5 Penguin said:

FRC exists because it was established as a server where all players can find a role for themselves, and accept the ways in which others play their own characters.

What if a PVP-fan comes and drags someone into PVP, he does not want? I know, a DM once told me: If you log in, in that moment you agree to PvP. But what if i chose a character-concept that is not meant for ongoing PvP- attacks and overly drama? Sadly PvP here mostly ends up in violence or even getting killed without having a chance to flee as far as i experineced.

I mean, if the PvP-fanclub has fun with their PvP, it's ok. I begrudge everyone their way to have fun and to have as much PvP, as they like. But please, with those who have fun with it, too. Starting PvP without any communication or agreement of the other side, can end in frustration and makes players leave, sometimes without coming back. Then dear PvP-fans you won't soon have any more opponents either. Starting PvP without agreement or even against someones will is a way of having fun on the expense of others, too. At least in my (twisted) opinion. Saying someone doesn't understand the world just because he has a different opinion, can also mean, those those people don't understand something themselves. And that is the fact, that opinions are different and something is not bad just because someone has a different opinion than me. If PvP-fans want to have their PvP, i have no problem with it. But it should never be forced on others.

Now you can stone me for my following suggestion:
I wish there would be a rule change. I wish there would be an option, that if a player doesn't want PvP, they can refuse.

My 2 ecnts to this.

Sayonara
Aoi <3

[erratic1]

People have always waited for pvp until their character was considered of "high level", and isn't a matter unique to this server, the old argument of "epics whill shut us down" is never going to go away. This isn't the main issue for all of this, IMO and is merely an aside.

On a server like ours, where this all starts to fall apart is on is people are just not able to split IC from OOC and it's starting to show on a more glaring level. People are unwilling to cede minor issues, rules lawyer to a ridiculous degree or even just refuse to have their characters' become involved in any situation that puts them on the losing side or makes their character vulnerable. Players so desperate to get the upper hand that they have their characters act in ways that they would never do in accordance of either their alignment or their class.


When we play these games we have to remember that there's a person on the other end, trying to have fun as well. I recall having numerous conversations with Forsetis (wotcha bud ) about how to try and include others to have fun in what where essentially quite epic journies we would arrange. Sometimes we'd mention how we couldn't believe at how some people reacted in some certain situations just because it didn't go well for them, or we'd done something IC they'd taken offense to. - My point here is that not everyone here seems to think about more than themselves when they try to murder half of the server population, nor do they seem to want to grasp the consequences of their characters' actions if they get caught or called out legitimately.

We now have events that happened now are considered to have "not happened" and as such consequences being avoided, and I have to say, I'm not a fan of this. Characters of any class or alignment, should not have their actions revoked just because of their level or because of their players standing or reputation or post count on the forum or whatever. They should be held accountable for their actions accordingly- consequences in game is just another form of roleplay and yet again something that is being treated as taboo because players get too upset about facing those consequences for actions that their characters created.

My question is why are we avoiding this? Rather than making awkward situations "go away" we should be dealing with them. If a player gets too butt-hurt over dealing with such consequences then is FRC really the server for them?

[erratic1]

Jun 23, 2017 6:55:40 GMT -5 ... said:

It is OOC. You can't just pick Neth out of a crowded GG.. but maybe you can. I dunno and I don't care. It's your logic after all. My logic says no. Your logic says yes. We're at an impasse. Endless argument ensue.

I'm not fighting you anymore on this platform because this platform makes no sense to me. There are too many things to consider. In a purely in character world then Neth would be free to murder people and Veli would be free to check every single elf in Cormyr. We'd have a blast! Things have changed, however. I can't play like that because of ooc constraints, I get grief, I get *chickenwing*, I get people who don't understand and don't want to understand. I can't do it. I can't play my character like I used to. I'm sorry but I'm not here for you. You won. You've defeated her. I can't be your enemy this time around. I'm going in a different direction with my character now, one that's more inward focused. I'm exploring my character and playing with my friends, end of.

This server failed me and I failed it.

After all this time, you need to ease up on me man.

From what I can see, there's fresh blood for you to gorge on. People who have yet to become as jaded by this system as I have become. There are different flavors of evils, the safe sorts that are far less reckless than I. Some people may think that it's the "better" way to play evil. I say that it's simply the different way to play it.

You have two choices.
Stick to your character 100% and do everything you can both ic and ooc to pick on me and in response I will stick to my character 100% and pvp like a psychopath. If you're going to use every rule to your advantage to prevent me from existing then I will do the same.

OR

Let me attempt to play in this new way. Alone.

<3

I can understand your grievance here, Rednails, but this is a bed that you laid with your character yourself. Whilst I don't know the full story of what happened with your most recent encounter, previous events where extremely violent and ambush related with Neth. While I don't begrudge you the style of RP you wish to play, if you don't wish to have your PC attacked on sight anymore by anyone of good alignment then I'd suggest making a new PC, because Neth is a known violent outlaw and Cyrist worshipper, and therefore it's open season on her by anyone who cares.

[Asgardian Grey Hawk]

Jun 22, 2017 22:54:46 GMT -5 StabbingNirvana said:

I think you're blurring the lines between IC and OOC, Rednails.

The IC reality is that Neth is a known cyricist, a murderer, and most importantly an outlaw. You decided this fate for Neth. For quite some time you were PvPing people. My earliest record of Neth in my reports is back in November 14, 2014 stating that several weeks prior Vel was attacked by her. My latest mention of Neth is on March 5, 2015 stated Neth was "resurrected and continuing on with her antics." On Dec 4, 2016 Neth was made an official outlaw from Cormyr when the outlaw system was introduced, along with Aris and Darius. Here's the rules for outlaws. frc.proboards.com/thread/26586/outlaw-status-provisions

Neth returned during a high period of Cyricist attacks from Abii's direction. Abii is a Cyricist. Neth is Cyricist. Neth is known to have last been seen alive. Here's the rule for disguises. frc.proboards.com/thread/26587/disguise-rules-guidelines

Here's what the Triad knows about Neth and how we go about the disguises.

From a post back in Dec 28, 14

"Both Netharmirth and Rarebril are known to spend time in and around Valkur's Roar, in particular The Tipsy Imp.

Netharmirth is known to walk the roads stealthily with her weapon at the ready. She may have pushed out into the Mistwood. She may also be wearing a disguise or a head cover. Speak to any suspect characters and identify her by voice. She is a lithe figured elf, with pale skin and dark hair who carries two blades of a length that may be large daggers or short swords. She also carries a bow of dark make. As she may have hold a Cyricist faith, her range may also reach out to Eveningstar which symbols of the Black Sun have been painted.

Rarebril is also known to frequent the Tipsy Imp. He also appears to have the ability to use wands which he carries tauntingly. The nature of a wand he brandished against Holance and myself is unknown, but it may be of sufficient strength to act as some deterrent in capturing him, considering the manner in which he was wielding it when he was stumbled upon by Holance and myself. He too may be sought in similar areas as Netharmirth and they may be discovered supporting one another

They are both to be considered armed and dangerous and with allies that may be unknown and unscene by us. They may both be making use of haste and invisibility potions so be prepared to use your own hastes and true seeing potions when pursuing. If pursuing with allies, to conserve on potions, have one member of the party use true seeing and to alert others of a sighting.

Also, we seek samples of writing from both of the wanted. On detainment, confiscate belongings and search them when able."

From a post on Dec 29, 14

"As with people on the run, be prepared to maneuver around disguises.

- Look under hoods.
- Use true seeing.
- Be mindful of equipment.
- Watch for known companions.

If suspicious activity is suspected, act appropriately. Speak to the person of suspicion to and be mindful of the face. Request the removal of hoods and other face covers.

Veiled hoods, masks, and other identity guards are not common place items in Cormyr. They are red flags. Red flags need to be followed up on.

Go out of your way to speak with figures who are of similar body type to those wanted. Thin, shorter females who cannot be identified immediately should be spoken to that you may verify an identity. Males of average size who cannot be identified should also be spoken to in an attempt to verify an identity.

Rarebril is known to carry a heavy shield and a scimitar. His general equipment is light armors, possibly ranging from leathers to varying degrees of chain.

Netharmirth is known to carry a bow with a dark shaft and two blades ranging from dagger to short swords in size. She generally wears leathers, most recently being black and purple. As her main skill is stealth, she will likely remain with a dark color upon her garb.

Both may have swapped out to other types of garb of varying colors, generally lighter ones to attempt to throw off any possible attraction. Additional red flags:

-Loose fitting robes.
-Items that mark one's training or status. Ie: Carrying a staff to give the appearance of a mage or elder.
-Hoods, masks, other face covers.
-Being mute.
-Being very still.
-Leaving an area when one who may recognize them approaches.

Again, red flags need to be pursued and investigated. If you see someone of suspicious activity, approach them and make mention of the bounty. Politely ask them to remove any covers without giving any perception of hostility. It would be best to pursue this method while with another, in the case that they refuse, your companion could get the attention of a guard and push the action.

A possible script may be but is not limited to: "Greeting friend. As you may know, there is an active Crown bounty set upon Rarebril and Netharmirth. To ensure the safety of the Kingdom and the people therein, I kindly request that you present your face momentarily."

Always treat those you encounter with respect and dignity that you maintain the highest standard of honor, including towards our adversaries."


Don't be so quick to jump into claims of OOC attacks. This is strictly IC.

you out right metagamed bro your argument is invalid