Us vs Them

[hellscream123]

Jun 24, 2017 5:19:38 GMT -5 @lilithstarling said:

Jun 23, 2017 10:00:09 GMT -5 Penguin said:

FRC exists because it was established as a server where all players can find a role for themselves, and accept the ways in which others play their own characters. There are conflicts from this, both IC, and OOC, because no one plays the same, nor do we always agree with each others choices. We survive however because when we find ourselves in a state of disagreement, we discuss it and come to a resolution. If a resolution between two characters is not in the cards, then the players of those characters can still come to an understanding with each other than their characters will pass each other by when possible, and not maliciously target each other, accepting that there may be times when conflict is inevitable due to groups, companions, DM events, etc. At those times, players are expected to accept each other with good grace.

There is no "them" on this server. There is only "us." And what we make of it.

It seems to me that if your purpose is to advance your chars story and partake in advancing other chars stories then the pvp rules make your task much harder.  After all only the winner is allowed to use that rp in advancing their story... the loser just wakes up dead with no story.  Why not allow losers to advance their story too? (yes, Lily is a loser)

How can you not have 'Us vs Them' if only the winner of pvp is allowed to advance their story?


You can call me an Us if you wish... but I sure feel like a Them.  Perhaps the popularity of this thread speaks to the chance that I am not the only one. 

You can not becime us and them because both get a story. One side must now exist after the fight having won it. The other has no reason not to wake up. Bruised battered and blurry. Unknowing how, but nowing that something has fought and beaten them.

Now you can play sherlock upon your iwn self to try and piece together what happened. The story only ends when one side choses to write no longer.

Blue was collateral in a fught once and i got to spend the next few days piecing together what happened. Was good fun to me.

This is the only minor upside to the death rules (to me) death isnt the end, its just another page in our stories.

[bloodalchemist]

Jun 24, 2017 18:36:19 GMT -5 smacrasmacrasmacra said:

By my recollections, in PnP, skills like bluff and intimidate and sense motive were intended to represent a PC's interaction with an NPC (and vice verse). The rule of thumb being, player v. player stuff is built entirely on roleplay not roll-play. Versus NPCs the roleplay influences the roll-play heavily, but there are still rolls.

In NWN PW's, though? Eh...they're all different and they're all the same. Everybody's bringing a hundred different preconceptions into this with how it should be and how they've seen it done and how the thousands of posts are all conflicting, swirling rehashes similar to this particular iteration of rehash. I don't know if any set of rules is gonna be able to sort this out for us, guys. I don't think so...it's been a long time since I /have/ thought that any set of rules could sort out these kinds of interactions on an RP server. None of the hard and fast rules are worth a durn unless we're all in agreement about a few things:

1) Don't be a dick.
2) Play a bit of "yes and."
3) Really...don't be a dick.
4) DO try to have FUN.
5) See 1 and 3.

The inherent issues with this are NWN has proven time and time again some people cannot be expected to keep other players fun in mind, let alone to make sure everyone has fun during these battle royales. If any set of rules worked for every single potential possibility, we wouldn't need dm's. Look at this games history, hell even just this server. Lets ignore the larger issue of pvp on frc for the moment, and just focus on skill checks against players.

Now, this is not an easy issue to resolve, I know I just posted saying how I dislike players rolling against players with diplomacy skills. On the other hand, allowing for the old system where a simple color/outfit change and a hood gives the wearer an impervious defence against detection is not acceptable either. Every situation is going to be different, every roleplayer's skills are going to vary, even the same roleplayer's performance will vary day to day.

As a friend told me; "If you box without a referee, you're just fighting." The point of this? With a referee present, you have to follow the agreed upon rules or be called out. If you're just fighting, you're not doing anything more than trying to hurt the other guy, which....doesn't sound very beneficial to anyone's roleplay. If you have someone there to call out when someone has crossed a line or done something inappropriate, its a lot easier to nip it in the butt then (I know its supposed to be bud, but I prefer Butt), rather than dig through whatever screenshots either side thought they could send you to make their case look better. It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission after all and I think that's a huge part of the reason why these threads keep coming up. This server has made it a lot easier for players to 'get away' with bs during these conflicts. It doesn't even require actual rules to be broken or foul play on either side, the simple fact that everything is resolved behind the scenes after the fact by dm's parsing through each side's biased portrayal of events, trust is built on far, far shakier ground than need be.

When we cant even trust one another's skill checks or lack there of in roleplay, when we cannnot even agree on the fundamental aspects of how to play this silly little game, it is a tall order to expect trust to be built up when it comes to things that have a HUGE impact on a character's story. PvP requires high levels of trust in one's fellow player which I think we can all agree, after years and years of these threads we do not trust one another and there is a significant problem of Us vs Them. Nice posts about "Lets all get along!" while nice, don't actually make any real steps towards fixing the fundamental problems we are obviously dealing with here. Because we cannot count on our dm's to step in as they would in pen and paper games, I would suggest that players who expect their characters roleplay to result in 'conflict' or full blown violence should seek out an independant PA or even another player to help mediate the interaction. Otherwise, we will just continue down this same road where because we fundamentally do not trust in the expectation of fair play from the player behind that character, we aren't really engaging in character vs character conflict, but true player vs player activities where roleplay is only going to suffer.

Has anyone ever done this? I've witnessed a few occasions where dm's were involved in the conflict and even if i was unhappy with the results of it, I had far less issues than those situations where i got involved in a drive by inviso-gank and had to hope that screenshots would be enough to actually get some sort of meaningful resolution.

If we cannot count on our DM staff to be everywhere at once (and I do know that at least some of you do try), I think we should find some other solution. Do not let the enemy of the perfect be the enemy of the good. Let's find some other means of mediation, even if its just talking in a few tells before hand and finding a player who is willing to be witness to things ooc and step in if things get out of hand or what have you. The current system of no holds bar free for all pvp is not acceptable, that much is obvious by how often these threads come up and how often either side of the equation bitches about how things are. I don't wanna be witness to or be involved in with another evil running up to invisogank me or one of my guild members for 'rp reasons'. It sure sounds like team evil is tired of making one slip up or a single bad roll and getting smote by paladins and or banned from towns. This isn't working and I think we can as a community do better. First and foremost is to be willing to say, we have kind of let this get out of hand and we could use some help policing ourselves and enforcing the actual rules of the server and fair play, so that we can all have fun.

[FlyingMidget]

Jun 24, 2017 18:36:19 GMT -5 smacrasmacrasmacra said:

By my recollections, in PnP, skills like bluff and intimidate and sense motive were intended to represent a PC's interaction with an NPC (and vice verse). The rule of thumb being, player v. player stuff is built entirely on roleplay not roll-play. Versus NPCs the roleplay influences the roll-play heavily, but there are still rolls.

In NWN PW's, though? Eh...they're all different and they're all the same. Everybody's bringing a hundred different preconceptions into this with how it should be and how they've seen it done and how the thousands of posts are all conflicting, swirling rehashes similar to this particular iteration of rehash. I don't know if any set of rules is gonna be able to sort this out for us, guys. I don't think so...it's been a long time since I /have/ thought that any set of rules could sort out these kinds of interactions on an RP server. None of the hard and fast rules are worth a durn unless we're all in agreement about a few things:

1) Don't be a dick.
2) Play a bit of "yes and."
3) Really...don't be a dick.
4) DO try to have FUN.
5) See 1 and 3.

These skills, even in PnP represented your characters skill at such, I'd argue that if you want to claim your character is good at lying, you still need to have a reasonable amount of points in such to represent such, otherwise you aren't roleplaying the character you elected to play.  The character sheets skills, attack bonus, ac, saving throws, hp, ability scores are all representations of the characters we choose to play.

If you want to skimp out on bluff but claim to be an amazing liar regardless then I'm probably going to roll my eyes at you and not believe a single lie your character tells because it isn't part of your character.  I care less about the roll itself really then that you've taken the effort to represent it as part of your characters being. 

Claiming your character has any special skills or abilities that aren't represented or DM endorsed has always struck me as god modding, but to each their own I guess.

FM.

[smacrasmacrasmacra]

Jun 24, 2017 20:53:10 GMT -5 FlyingMidget said:

These skills, even in PnP represented your characters skill at such, I'd argue that if you want to claim your character is good at lying, you still need to have a reasonable amount of points in such to represent such, otherwise you aren't roleplaying the character you elected to play.  The character sheets skills, attack bonus, ac, saving throws, hp, ability scores are all representations of the characters we choose to play.

If you want to skimp out on bluff but claim to be an amazing liar regardless then I'm probably going to roll my eyes at you and not believe a single lie your character tells because it isn't part of your character.  I care less about the roll itself really then that you've taken the effort to represent it as part of your characters being. 

Claiming your character has any special skills or abilities that aren't represented or DM endorsed has always struck me as god modding, but to each their own I guess.

FM.

Yeah, I fully get that and agree with it. I like to see a roll not for the actual dice-y implication of a roll, but to get a gauge of just how seriously this character is invested, mechanically, into the RP as portrayed. Charismatic sorceror wants to be super suave...gives us a peek at their score...we know that, yes, in fact they are quite suave. Good on 'em, I'm far more receptive to their argument.

Cha 6 DD wants to persuade you from your evil ways and...wtf, dude? Where'd this heart-felt Dear Abby thing come from? It colors the RP with the brown crayons at that point.

I want to be able to believe we're all doing this in best intentions. I always try to and the /vast/ majority of you I've interacted with do so as well.

But...rules aren't for the rule followers, ya know?

[Lady Frost]

Jun 24, 2017 16:43:11 GMT -5 bloodalchemist said:

Rolling bluff, intimidate, persuade on things your character says is not a catch all for convincing someone. Merely a suggestion that their words carry more weight, depending on the roll. Outside of the disguise rules, there are no established rules about how one plays out these rolls against another player. Especially lacking a real Sense Motive skill, i think this is important, because people are always going to disagree how to handle/react to these things, especially if your rp can't back up your rolls. Keep in mind Mara has a 43 intimidate before buffs, I follow these rules myself and will only very very rarely roll intimidate, usually as a last warning before potential pvp.

I don't disagree. I'm not sure I've ever used persuade (which is really "Diplomacy") so someone can roll against me. I tend to roll it to show other players just how persuasive - or diplomatic - Zoe is, then let the player decide how their PC would respond. That said, when you look into the skills of bluff and diplomacy those skills can be extremely powerful. Bluff can literally convince someone of outrageous, unbelievable stuff. So when a player complains "My PC would never do that". Well, according to the rules, they /might/.
Bluff
Similarly, diplomacy/persuade (which isn't bluff) can have huge effects towards influencing a PC, and simply saying "My PC wouldn't do that" is lame.
Diplomacy

I've also always hated the "If your RP can't back up your rolls". That's like telling someone that isn't a primary english speaker that they can't play a wizard because they can't communicate like a 20 int wizard would. If your PC can roll it, they can do it, regardless of quality of RP, so long as some effort is made towards what they're doing. If they walk up with no RP and roll 30 bluff and demand you change your faith because "your god is dumb and you need a new one", fine, I get that. But just because the -player- can't convince -you- doesn't mean their PC can't convince your PC.

[Lady Frost]

Jun 24, 2017 16:56:11 GMT -5 ... said:

That's because you're simply better than me, Frost.

It wasn't a rule when I played. A guideline perhaps, but not a hard rule.

Spot and Listen are combat skills.

I think I'm going to have to pull the "I don't care" card on you being peeved off with people not dumping skill points into bluff. I mean, you're free to be peeved off by it but I don't see it as being cheaty or anything. I think it's kinda cool to put ranks in these skills if you want to but it's not something I'd ever hold someone over or look down upon for. That's just me though. If it makes you feel any better I did take 10 in charisma because I didn't feel my character was ugly enough to warrant an 8. I hope at least in that you can be proud of me.

<3

I am proud of you for that.
Ability point are super important and willingly putting points in CHA (especially) is a tough choice.

Hopefully, that didn't come across too condescendingly, I was serious.

[bloodalchemist]

And Smacra brought up a lovely point in that those checks were not meant to be used player to player, but against DM Controlled NPC's. Saying someone has to believe you or take interest in what you're saying because of a high roll just does not translate the same to adventurers as it does common folk. A lot of this *chickenwing* we make up as we go because they game as we know and love it was never intended for the sort of mass play that we see here. Just like villians typically were supposed to be in the hands of a DM so that the party could work together and avoid the sort of infighting and mistrust that breaks apart pnp groups, and is so easily mishandled or badly done, as we also see here. That is why I said i'll only use my rolls as a precaution to folks. A last ditch warning that hey, you've said some stuff that really really pisses my character off and they are very threatening, maybe its a good idea to de-escalate. I don't expect mara to growl and grind her teeth and get the ebil necromancer talking in town about steaing souls, or the shar/cyric worshipper showing off signs of their faith, to stop what they are doing for forever but maybe to not do it in my characters face.

High rolls are far too often determind by who has the most levels, and I do not believe that having levels makes your rp any better or more convincing. DC checks are great in dm plots against npcs but if you wanna rp with a player, rp with them, dont shove your dice/levels in their face and expect them to give a damn. Use it as a precaution maybe, but otherwise...why not just stick to the actual roleplay?

Why I'm for dm's or some other form of mediators taking a larger role in such adversarial rp so an impartial judgement can be made. Everyone Mary Sues their characters to one degree or another, we are all heavily invested in our stories we are trying to tell. If we leave things in the wild west state they are in, we're just gonna keep having threads like this pop up every 1-2 months for as long as people still populate this place.

[smacrasmacrasmacra]

Ugh...that's a central gripe, a deep fissure in my core, bloodalchemist .  The levels influencing stuff.  You pretty much only get levels in being smooth, in the fine art of seduction, in the tablut board of maneuvering the body politic, in the reading of subtle tells...via the endless slaughter of undesirable ugly people.  That is SOOOO dumb.  So dumb.  Mais, c'est le jeu.  It's a crappy facet of the game I'd rather just completely work around with that bizarre hitch-step of "i rp this...i roll this to show i'm X good at the thing I RP'd.  You take it from there."

[...]

I dunno!

<3

[perspicacity]

Jun 24, 2017 22:02:31 GMT -5 bloodalchemist said:

And Smacra brought up a lovely point in that those checks were not meant to be used player to player, but against DM Controlled NPC's. Saying someone has to believe you or take interest in what you're saying because of a high roll just does not translate the same to adventurers as it does common folk. A lot of this *chickenwing* we make up as we go because they game as we know and love it was never intended for the sort of mass play that we see here. Just like villians typically were supposed to be in the hands of a DM so that the party could work together and avoid the sort of infighting and mistrust that breaks apart pnp groups, and is so easily mishandled or badly done, as we also see here. That is why I said i'll only use my rolls as a precaution to folks. A last ditch warning that hey, you've said some stuff that really really pisses my character off and they are very threatening, maybe its a good idea to de-escalate. I don't expect mara to growl and grind her teeth and get the ebil necromancer talking in town about steaing souls, or the shar/cyric worshipper showing off signs of their faith, to stop what they are doing for forever but maybe to not do it in my characters face.

High rolls are far too often determind by who has the most levels, and I do not believe that having levels makes your rp any better or more convincing. DC checks are great in dm plots against npcs but if you wanna rp with a player, rp with them, dont shove your dice/levels in their face and expect them to give a damn. Use it as a precaution maybe, but otherwise...why not just stick to the actual roleplay?

Why I'm for dm's or some other form of mediators taking a larger role in such adversarial rp so an impartial judgement can be made. Everyone Mary Sues their characters to one degree or another, we are all heavily invested in our stories we are trying to tell. If we leave things in the wild west state they are in, we're just gonna keep having threads like this pop up every 1-2 months for as long as people still populate this place.

I'd say the social checks were not primarily meant to be used player to player, but that's splitting hairs. And as Lady Frost pointed out, in most cases they weren't designed as opposed rolls but rolls to augment the skills in regard to the attempted influence. But not all Bluffs are created equal, nor Persuades, nor Intimidates, etc. What, whom, where, even when should all have a role, hence the Circumstance Modifier.

[PhatDorf]

Want to just chime another echo for this level-thing. And I've debated actually posting it, it could warrant a whole other thread and discussion... And I don't usually partake in these talks that much anyway
Also, it's very rambling, so sorry in advance.

I've felt... (and maybe wrongly, but still a niggling thought), that because I'm limited in how much I can play, and of that time how much actual 'experience point gaining activities' I actually can tolerate doing, that when it comes to any conflict with other players in which high stats and skillmods are in play I'm unable to compete or participate. Alongside that I don't actually want to play a 'powerbuild', and snooze through FRC's dungeons.
Be that in combat insta-splatting someone in pvp, or clubbing someone with a 70 persuade/perform/bluff/etc in a situation of non-combat player conflict.

And, sure, before people tell me that those who have earned their xp deserve recognition for it, I grant that there's a lot of investment in getting to a high level,(though not as much as there used to be...) and I don't want to take any value away from that. So due to that, I feel like I don't really have a foot to stand on, or be allowed to be upset about it.

But it doesn't stop feeling a bit like crap.

So with that, why the heck should I be restricted on how well I can play a character, who may have invested interest and effort into a situation just be completely crushed and deemed worthless when push comes to shove in the face of someone else (and no-one in particular) who kills the dracolich and does the WW tower every week?
I don't like the idea that my investments and efforts are null, because I favor less dungeons in the time I do get to play.

I try my hardest to help, and use what clout and respect I've gained on my character to try and achieve goals, organise and help, but it sucks feeling like I'm sat on the bench forever, watching the 'big fish' play the actual game.

I am lucky that many of the people I frequently RP with are very friendly and easygoing players, who've assured me that level isn't everything. They are absolutely right, of course. But I think to some degree that only applies to people of the same mindset, who are willing to accommodate others more, regardless of the numbers.. and we all have different visions on FRC, and enjoy different things.

Edit:
And with that said, I'm outta here.

[Syd's Blue Sky]

You guys all realize Darkharp is like... level 12, right? And one of the most influential PCs in the history of FRC?

All this level talk is kinda moot in my opinion. Levels don't equal respect. People who grind up to 30 in 4 months and then just try to throw their levels around turn into laughing stocks not legends... and they never seem to last very long, either.

Being low to mid teens is way more fun on FRC anyway.

Is this on point anymore? Guess not.


EDIT

I know that quivery-lipped rage over injustices real and imagined is all in vogue and *chickenwing* when it comes to the forum, but does this epic bullying stuff even happen? Is this a real problem, or is this a manufactured hypothetical complaint that just started to roll down the internet hill? I've only really seen someone low level actually get railroaded by an epic once or twice in my 10 years (and lotta in game hours) here. Alternatively, I see epics propping up lowbies daily... rarely do I see epics knocking them down.

Do PCs with massive reputations tend to roll over PCs made, say, last week? Yes. Does this have anything to do with levels? No. Not even a little. Is this considered Epic Bullying? Is people with epic skill focus in Bluff being good at lying considered Epic Bullying? I'm not sure this is actually a problem...

Where is this happening that I'm not seeing it? I can't even remember the last time someone rolled a social skill on me or I rolled a social skill on someone else in a situation that wasn't angling at comedy. Maybe Zodika rolled a persuade to support an argument (as Frosty explained above) like... a year ago?

[StabbingNirvana]

None of this changes that bluff has always been used as the go to skill against other PCs to validate the strength and believability of their lie, disguise, or dare I said it ... Their bluff. This has gone on way before the disguise system was set up.

All we do is read text. IC we lack the senses we have IRL to discern lying and the like. All we have is read, read, more read and maaaaaaybe if the opposing side is playing nice, they'll add an emote describing their shiftiness otherwise everything needs to be taken at word value.

It's why asking characters for bluff rolls or recognizing characters by pressing tab and seeing their name ISN'T metagaming. It's because their floaty name assumes the role of face and identity. There aren't that many different face styles in game and many of the same ones attract lots of players. Vel and Holance have the exact identical armor but its not often that people come up to him and call him Holance.

[...]

No.

Your character picked out an elf in a crowded GG dressed in white robes who stood quietly next to another character as someone that he hadn't seen in years (real time). This sort of thing doesn't scream "respect" from my perspective. It feels like "Us vs Them". It feels like I'm fighting an ooc battle. It feels like the excrement of a male cow. This is a glimpse of things to come, of course. It's a glimpse of things gone by. It's you fighting me on an ooc level and I'm not fooled one moment by it. It's sneaky, it's deceitful and I can see right through it. You'd make a brilliant Cyricist. Do not patronise me further.

It is a rule and I have to go along with it. I do not have to agree with it and I can call it for what I perceive it to be, a rigged system that you can exploit.

You've made your bed, now you can sleep in it.

[StabbingNirvana]

Nope.

Vel spotted someone he has high familiarity with concealing herself standing next to an evil priest. Vel's being played according to a red flag system made 3 years ago. Neth hit three different red flags. 1) Hooded. 2) Hanging out with a known evil priest. 3) Conversing quietly. My character was already in GG actively seeking Abii for hours. He was paying attention to people who were hooded, including Halkas and the folk standing with Lucien Cain (i think is the name.) He found Neth.

The only OOC I saw was when I asked for a bluff roll the second time AFTER postponing it and waiting for a DM when the DM crashed/went offline. The clear metagame was your evil priest whom you already joined parties with getting himself and Neth battle ready via heavy magical buffage of strong short duration spells. So spare me the sob story and pity party.

No OOC about it. Learn the rules. Neth shouldn't have even been inside a town to start with without DM permission. She's an outlaw.

[DOT]

Is everyone done here? Does the thread seem like its run its course DMs?

[Syd's Blue Sky]

Jun 25, 2017 8:09:10 GMT -5 StabbingNirvana said:

Nope.

Vel spotted someone he has high familiarity with concealing herself standing next to an evil priest. Vel's being played according to a red flag system made 3 years ago. Neth hit three different red flags. 1) Hooded. 2) Hanging out with a known evil priest. 3) Conversing quietly. My character was already in GG actively seeking Abii for hours. He was paying attention to people who were hooded, including Halkas and the folk standing with Lucien Cain (i think is the name.) He found Neth.

The only OOC I saw was when I asked for a bluff roll the second time AFTER postponing it and waiting for a DM when the DM crashed/went offline. The clear metagame was your evil priest whom you already joined parties with getting himself and Neth battle ready via heavy magical buffage of strong short duration spells. So spare me the sob story and pity party.

No OOC about it. Learn the rules. Neth shouldn't have even been inside a town to start with without DM permission. She's an outlaw.

Seems very thin. Is this how the new rules are being broadly applied by everyone to everyone?

[Southpaw]

To Syds's point about epic bullying:

No, I don't think it happens that epics roll over lowbies all that often in practice. But they do overshadow to the point of tamping down role play. If I may exaggerate a little (but only a little) to make the point, after a particular event I was part of years ago, if I'm playing a low level hin in Greatgaunt, it's not going to hug anyone in the town square if Zodika is afk on her private island but visible on the players list as logged in. Now you think it's going to do something someone might find mildly annoying when Kian, Marister, and Kanti are having a chat with Shiv by The Tree, Velisario and Holance are sitting at the table with Elon catching up on events, Valera is selling wares to Salina and Kori, and Abii is wandering around in disguise? My little hin is going to grind its way up to level 30 before eating a ham sandwich at the table if it chews with its mouth open.

[bloodalchemist]

Jun 25, 2017 6:22:18 GMT -5 perspicacity said:

I'd say the social checks were not primarily meant to be used player to player, but that's splitting hairs. And as Lady Frost pointed out, in most cases they weren't designed as opposed rolls but rolls to augment the skills in regard to the attempted influence. But not all Bluffs are created equal, nor Persuades, nor Intimidates, etc. What, whom, where, even when should all have a role, hence the Circumstance Modifier.

Hence why i think there should be a mediator for these things, like in pnp, who decides what the circumstance modifier should be. Like i said in my earlieer post about skills being used on other players, there is always going to be situational changes that can and should have an affect on any given day.

[Syd's Blue Sky]

Jun 25, 2017 9:11:26 GMT -5 Southpaw said:

To Syds's point about epic bullying:

No, I don't think it happens that epics roll over lowbies all that often in practice. But they do overshadow to the point of tamping down role play. If I may exaggerate a little (but only a little) to make the point, after a particular event I was part of years ago, if I'm playing a low level hin in Greatgaunt, it's not going to hug anyone in the town square if Zodika is afk on her private island but visible on the players list as logged in. Now you think it's going to do something someone might find mildly annoying when Kian, Marister, and Kanti are having a chat with Shiv by The Tree, Velisario and Holance are sitting at the table with Elon catching up on events, Valera is selling wares to Salina and Kori, and Abii is wandering around in disguise? My little hin is going to grind its way up to level 30 before eating a ham sandwich at the table if it chews with its mouth open.

This more sounds like you metagaming PC levels and acting with this in mind?

[Southpaw]

When every one of the characters in question openly boasts of how many dragons they've slain, it's called paying attention and acting on in character knowledge.

[bloodalchemist]

Jun 25, 2017 7:02:26 GMT -5 Syd's Blue Sky said:

I know that quivery-lipped rage over injustices real and imagined is all in vogue and *chickenwing*

Funny hearing this from the guy who got his position on the staff by bitching at the dm team

[Syd's Blue Sky]

Jun 25, 2017 9:17:24 GMT -5 bloodalchemist said:

Jun 25, 2017 7:02:26 GMT -5 Syd's Blue Sky said:

I know that quivery-lipped rage over injustices real and imagined is all in vogue and *chickenwing*

Funny hearing this from the guy who got his position on the staff by bitching at the dm team

?

Take your meltdown elsewhere.

[Southpaw]

When every one of the characters in question openly boasts of how many dragons they've slain, teleports out of the town square, full resurrects the dead, and spars with others who do these things outside the town gate, it's called paying attention and acting on in character knowledge.

[Southpaw]

(Sorry for the double post, my iPhone is being wonky in what it will let me do with editing/removing posts.)

[StabbingNirvana]

Which part was thin? The one where the guy that had roughly 7 or 8 or so PvP encounters with Neth who was actively out seeking cyricists (there's actually 6 on the list atm but Abii is the main driving force) actually found a cyricist? I've invested in maxing out spot on a character that gets 2 skill points + int bonus for skills. I know we could be willfully blind at times, but not all the time. Sometimes the hammer is going to drop. It likely won't drop against more peaceful enemies like Zodika who is known to be mostly peaceful (at least in the public sphere). But it will drop against characters that are not protected by the law, who have have demonstrated repeated evil acts post Crown judgment, and to a lesser degree, enemies that have made a career evading the divine laws of goodness and justice as written by a DM in our (as of right now) public triad guild temple. I mean, I could apologize if you think it's thin, but it wouldn't exactly be sincere.

Edit:
To add, we have been getting attacked for having a Torm symbol on our cloaks for years. You better damn well believe we're going to squeeze out every ounce we can so that we aren't the sitting ducks we have been.

[spyd3r97344]

Perhaps their is much anticipation as to the regards of clues about this thread. . .
Their where some amazing things written here by many of you.
I would like to point out this is -Tightrope walking over a volcano-
I play a Cyricist, you don't often see, much of my time is spend driving myself MAD with scribe work of a diverse pool of inspirations and lore, this is a group game, Whom I can or cannot engage and at what time is a very tricky decision.
Like Darkharp, William is a lowbie, sortof and being a Villain who could turn on anyone at any time for any reason in a snap, needless to say, the less you are a fighter for hire, soloing is a really bad idea, one distraction too many and I am screwed. Also having some crafting talents hinder that rate of growth, many a day, while adventurers are out killing monster growing the grass with their blood, I am using my role to write books, and as to make a large enough body of this Lazy work, and use it for a "Group" operation of building a lore pool among the players whom can claim geas over their own destinies, to have the Hand outs they may need to understand the roles of NPC's which their are around 129,000 folks living in Suzail, over 2500 of them are noblemen and 10,000 are craftsmen ect.
To have 30 adventurers in town at once, its really not that absurd because we are victim to the lies we all tell ourselves to this sort of hypocrisy.
I would prefer to write something involving all these thousands of souls ripe for harvest but those of you on the "US" with skeletons in your closet, lets try and think, is this one villain here worth "Hazing" when countless countrymen are in grave peril
And you didn't give the villain time enough to monologue their case because you jumped to conclusions and cut them asunder!

Someone has been writing rumors in game obviously but why?
They are Lazy - I like this answer I will allow you to decisive yourself here if you wish

Fundamentally the ideals given for this game was a double-edged sword for players to be either simply fooled into a goose chase (If you are I hope you Faith in RP and DM's makes this all the more fun because it becomes a minor event, oh cause DM's just wanna have fun, remember this is a group game!, I solo so who cares?, I am writing and not grinding, perhaps those plots are my rejects to the ones of a mastermind, or some juicy ones have really "Gotten Out" for another example.

I have been working on some more books with some relation to plots brewing out there. so should the bread crumbs come back to me maybe I have something you don't know about under my cloak, but is these Rumors are just rubbish then they are and if some rumors lead to IG gossip yielding results, then the aspects of the game can take a twist in use for RP allowing more Quests and plots to surface like a subtle plot weaving as we share this countryside and its tales.
Throw them out, keep them as souvenirs or sift out the clues within some of them, otherwise, this is part of my attempt to break the misnomer about Clicks and Gossip rings, seriously talk to someone new maybe? or don't get involved because your OOC side says is a trick or a curse or a hook and someone is going to kill me. . . Are they really?

Perhaps I avoid sticky situations like skill rolls when they might not be fun for what I am to accomplish but in being prepared I and the "Answers" playing hide and seek while taking answers to the grave with a nonstop deflection of the truth during a torture interrogation, I don't carry the big stick around here but if one does not wish to be seen, its a big countryside to hide in.
Distraction is a strong part of illusion and deception
Where did the ball go?

In addition I hope many of you can find some respect for Rednails courage in all this, she sincerely loves it here. 

[Aoi]

I just would like to say one thing, closing. There are people who make mistakes but don't want to see that. They do really bad things but don't want the consequences. Instead they play the poor sacrifice and hope to get your sympathy. Guys, please don't fall for that and don't let them foment you against eachother.

Now I'm done.

[Spirit of a Phoenix]

I'm not sure why this went from a let's get along thread into an actual "us verse them" argument.

How about we agree with the original post about how we should all be cool to each other and get along. That's the actual topic of discussion. Save the off topic discussion of how to play evil for a relevant thread. I doubt this was the kind of discussion that Merc was aiming for.

The topic isn't what other people can do to improve YOUR experience. The discussion was meant to be what you do to improve the experience of those you who play PCs that oppose yours.

That's what we should actually be discussing here.

[spyd3r97344]

I totally agree with you, some things are still happening in game as this thread grows, What Merc said was along the lines of what I would have said, had I not held my remarks
  He had said it with a much more experienced perspective as well, from his position that he has earned with the respect to state those opinions and values that someone of a different caliber would have landed deaf ears to, PC's who oppose mine, well not everyone can cut my arm off over and over again, PC's who oppose me are almost everyone simply due to the factions history, Sorry if I am only one person with 100 rumors and 20 books and if you have seen any of it if my post is too far off topic I can remove it for you
  So writing about people who oppose a betrayer? lots of wiggle room, but I hope more "Regal Cookies" and lore bit's make it to your screens soon