|
|
Post by arisnorman1 on Feb 7, 2013 19:07:15 GMT -5
so you are saying no epics would take intrest in upstarts? How would wizards get apprentices or Fighters students? I see many flaws in what you just posted no offence. But i can also see the other side of the coin. If you are there to relax fine but if you are epic and all you do is hang out in GG something is wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lady Frost on Feb 7, 2013 19:08:24 GMT -5
As well, our server is a very finite space. It's possible to see it all (or think you have). You can't just walk up to an NPC and chat either. If you could interact with any NPC, I promise I'd never have an epic in GG, but you can't.
|
|
|
|
Post by arisnorman1 on Feb 7, 2013 19:10:36 GMT -5
As well, our server is a very finite space. It's possible to see it all (or think you have). You can't just walk up to an NPC and chat either. If you could interact with any NPC, I promise I'd never have an epic in GG, but you can't. +1 |
|
|
|
Post by soulfien on Feb 7, 2013 19:13:03 GMT -5
so you are saying no epics would take intrest in upstarts? How would wizards get apprentices or Fighters students? I see many flaws in what you just posted no offence. But i can also see the other side of the coin. If you are there to relax fine but if you are epic and all you do is hang out in GG something is wrong. Epics don't train in PnP. Mid level PC's do. My logic was not flawed. My PnP epic PC (cleric) didn't train and was hardly ever in Toril. Being able to travel around with ease, he didn't stay put. He owned a temple, but was never there. He had mid level PC's run it for him and train new clerics in Selune's ways. |
|
|
|
Post by arisnorman1 on Feb 7, 2013 19:18:32 GMT -5
yes see you just said your epic trained new upstarts so there for they have a reason. if all they do is hang out in GG 24/7 then i would be worried most epics pop into GG once a week that i have seen.
|
|
|
|
Post by soulfien on Feb 7, 2013 19:21:01 GMT -5
yes see you just said your epic trained new upstarts so there for they have a reason. if all they do is hang out in GG 24/7 then i would be worried most epics pop into GG once a week that i have seen. No I didn't. My epic didn't... he did when he was lvl 12. There's a huge difference between level 12 and epic. Why are you so insistent to place words in my mouth? Are you TRYING to start an argument? |
|
|
|
Post by Lady Frost on Feb 7, 2013 19:26:22 GMT -5
Aris, when he said:
He had mid level PC's run it for him and train new clerics in Selune's ways.
He meant the mid levels that run the temple do the training also.
|
|
|
|
Post by arisnorman1 on Feb 7, 2013 19:29:10 GMT -5
misunderstood what he said. And argument no. But it seems you are so insitent on kicking epics out of GG. And once that happens it is easier to say well you over 16 now out of suzail and so on and so forth. All i see is if you start this is a rolling wave that will screw this server up.
|
|
|
|
Post by soulfien on Feb 7, 2013 19:32:50 GMT -5
The entirety of my suggestion was to install a playground for epics only. Of course, I doubt it will happen, but if it were to happen, epics wouldn't want to spend their days in a farming village because they'd have cooler stuff to do.
So, since that's not likely to happen, I'd settle for epics being considerate of newbies even if that means going OOC a bit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 20:23:04 GMT -5
I really don't think there's an issue with epics being in Greatgaunt, in itself. We had an event happen that some number of people got upset about, and everyone wants to pitch in and offer their two cents to see people not get so upset again. And that's good. But it doesn't mean people need to reinvent the wheel over every aspect of the game. I think that if each player takes personal responsibility for on the one hand, handling their epic character with care around lowbies and considering how their PC's power magnifies the effect for others of what they do, and on the other hand, giving people the benefit of the doubt when things don't look right, a lot of this upset can be avoided just by that.
But as for people going to other places, I could see epic characters creating a draw for people to go to other places. A wizard could hold a magical audition for potential apprentices, and offer prizes. Fighters could hold tournaments and tests of skill. Clerics could host religious festivals. You name it. Instead of going to the lowbies, they could draw the lowbies to them, according to who is interested.
|
|
|
|
Post by ID10Tango on Feb 7, 2013 21:06:00 GMT -5
Sorry but unless a rule (and an ill advised one at that) is put into place or a DM says otherwise my epic will continue visiting GG and every other town in Cormyr as often and for as long as he likes. He will also continue to treat the others around him based solely upon their actions and of those around them, not by some mysterious OOC knowledge of their lvl. Nobody is going to tell me how I should play so long as I'm abiding by the server rules.
I made a lower level alt to play around with while things with Moby slowed down. I've had just as much fun as a low lvl as I do playing my epic. I see it from both ends of the spectrum and my opinion is that there's nothing wrong here. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Getting your feelings hurt by one or many doesn't require a change in the server.
|
|
leaflord
New Member
Watching, Love from Above
Posts: 50
|
Post by leaflord on Feb 7, 2013 22:26:29 GMT -5
Not sure how relevant what happens on other servers is same on Frc but if changed to Frc setting i suppose it would work. Watching and listening as lowbie to all the epics around town of late talk about events kinda shocking. As A Great Gaunt lowbie I hate to admit this but wish i was on and could been part of it even if i was killed. Its an event and sometimes things happen and as levl 5 the exp is mere 500 exp at worst and there was from what i gather dm present for the massacre. Kudos to who ever made it to the basement and survived to tell the tale cause thats the real hero not epic I think cleric or paladin not sure details but he certainly was not hero died and could not remember a thing. Sometimes the most unlikely hero is the one that ego is in check and realizes hey someone needs to live to tell the tale. We are mortal epic , lowbie, super wizards, powerful clerics. As they say everytime time is at hand just never know when and where.
Also like to say thanks to dms and such at first glance i thought the massacre would be negative with few postives but seen alot good things from it too.
1. More epic characters have showed up in Gaunt and been dusted off sorta speak.
2. People are talking and what to do instead just milling about and wanting to go kill orcs for hundreth time.
3. Server feels alive good emotion or bad emotion its emotion, people want to log in just to get a taste.
4. Never been as many people on since i logged in.
5. This one is important hard to understand for most...please take breathe and listen carefully..... respect your opponent win today might lose tomorrow but at end day still person on the other end computer. When something finished give your fella player an acknowledgement of there part , goes long ways toward there reaction to the event.
Enjoy this been service announcemnt from the friendly trees and shrubs..
Do not be shrub!!
LeafLord
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 23:43:03 GMT -5
Do not be shrub!! LeafLord Leaflord, I have no idea what, "Do not be shrub!" is supposed to mean, but you just became a lot more cool in my mind for saying it.  |
|
|
|
Post by 828stingstingneo on Feb 8, 2013 10:05:55 GMT -5
if you rly want to have people more spread and ''thin out'' people from the area.. make more starting towns like greatgaunt. with same difficulty areas.. I really like this idea. Even if it doesn't get people out of Greatgaunt it's a win because it gives starting PCs new and interesting stuff to do, especially if they've done all the Greatgaunt dungeons tons of times with other characters already. It used to be (and may still be) that people could choose to go into the Thayan Enclave from the Border Outpost. Perhaps new beginner level dungeons could be centered around there. Some of them could even have an evil slant for those who like to go to the Enclave for evil purposes. |
|
|
|
Post by breadandcircuses on Feb 8, 2013 13:25:07 GMT -5
Well, one reason to get the epics out of greatgaunt is the Superman Issue.
Mind you this could be a server wide issue as well.
But basically, when you run an event you have to tailor it to the highest level char, not the lowest level, right?
For example, the other day with the 'undead army' thing. It sort of lost all tension when we had RCMH people show up, who are all very high level. For a lower level char, you have to say 'Ok, so either they'll spawn something tough for the RCMH folks, which will instantly kill me, or they'll spawn something that won't instantly kill me, which the RCMH will just blow apart like their nothing."
It does sort of remove all tension from a situation. Even though IC we can't know that stuff, OOC we do, and even if we try to act IC, it feels a little hollow and takes you out of the situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Feb 8, 2013 15:03:21 GMT -5
Well, one reason to get the epics out of greatgaunt is the Superman Issue. Mind you this could be a server wide issue as well. But basically, when you run an event you have to tailor it to the highest level char, not the lowest level, right? For example, the other day with the 'undead army' thing. It sort of lost all tension when we had RCMH people show up, who are all very high level. For a lower level char, you have to say 'Ok, so either they'll spawn something tough for the RCMH folks, which will instantly kill me, or they'll spawn something that won't instantly kill me, which the RCMH will just blow apart like their nothing." It does sort of remove all tension from a situation. Even though IC we can't know that stuff, OOC we do, and even if we try to act IC, it feels a little hollow and takes you out of the situation. This can be easily fixed though. Remember how the gates were organized, with one or two high levels chars and 2-3 other low levels with them? Well, if there are more tan 1 DMs in charge of the event we players could have done it different: Gate 1: Characters with levels 1-5. Zombies, weak spectres and skeletons. Gate 2: Characters with levels 6-10. Zombie warriors, ghouls, mummies and spectres. Gate 3: Characters with levels 11- 16. Skeleton warriors, mummy warriors, Zombie lords and a bodak or two Gate 4: Supermen and superwomen against well...You get the idea.  This way everyone feels that they are actually useful. To avoid the massive lag, the attacks could be send in waves, one gate first then the other and so... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 15:09:17 GMT -5
It's not as hard as you might think to survive with a low level character on a high level battlefield. If you insist on being the "tank" on your level 5 barbarian in regular chain mail with a greatsword against epic level monsters, that might be a challenge. But take a bow, flank, cast from a distance, turn invisible and run around with healing kits ... there's a lot of ways even a level 1 mage who's out of spells can contribute in a fight involving level 20 characters. You just have to play smart and focus on what you are in fact able to do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Feb 8, 2013 15:13:49 GMT -5
It's not as hard as you might think to survive with a low level character on a high level battlefield. If you insist on being the "tank" on your level 5 barbarian in regular chain mail with a greatsword against epic level monsters, that might be a challenge. But take a bow, flank, cast from a distance, turn invisible and run around with healing kits ... there's a lot of ways even a level 1 mage who's out of spells can contribute in a fight involving level 20 characters. You just have to play smart and focus on what you are in fact able to do. Sure, it could be up to the player to decide and fight weak spawns or the stronger ones. |
|
|
|
Post by soulfien on Feb 8, 2013 15:39:51 GMT -5
It's not as hard as you might think to survive with a low level character on a high level battlefield. If you insist on being the "tank" on your level 5 barbarian in regular chain mail with a greatsword against epic level monsters, that might be a challenge. But take a bow, flank, cast from a distance, turn invisible and run around with healing kits ... there's a lot of ways even a level 1 mage who's out of spells can contribute in a fight involving level 20 characters. You just have to play smart and focus on what you are in fact able to do. Well, there is a server rule in place that implies that PC's have to be able to contribute to the fight. A lvl 1 mage who casts his one and only magic missile against the first mob doesn't qualify as contributing. Also, a lvl 5 guy with a crossbow in a crypt full of mummies isn't going to be contributing either unless his crossbow is a +2- which hardly any level 5 PC has. Just carrying healing kits won't help because running up to the "tank" (hate using WoW terms when talking about this game), will get you killed thanks to that Attack of Opportunity system. So, unless you're strong enough to personally do business in the dungeon, you're not going to be able to do enough to "contribute". I personally know of one rogue who was ejected from her group by a DM because she was only picking locks and disarming traps- she wasn't effective in fighting what the party was going after. That's a grey area, of course- not every DM will see that as a violation, but it could happen. I personally dislike going anywhere I feel I have to be "protected" by the rest of the party. I was placed in this situation recently by a DM- he sent us into a crypt to fight mummies and my mage couldn't do anything useful except traps and locks- the party had to carry her through and protect her all the way and I hated it... won't do it again, DM event or no. It's just me... I don't like playing the part anymore than I like carrying someone through who shouldn't be there. Pull your weight or don't bother coming is how I see it. But, like I said, it's just my opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Feb 8, 2013 15:45:27 GMT -5
It's not as hard as you might think to survive with a low level character on a high level battlefield. If you insist on being the "tank" on your level 5 barbarian in regular chain mail with a greatsword against epic level monsters, that might be a challenge. But take a bow, flank, cast from a distance, turn invisible and run around with healing kits ... there's a lot of ways even a level 1 mage who's out of spells can contribute in a fight involving level 20 characters. You just have to play smart and focus on what you are in fact able to do. Well, there is a server rule in place that implies that PC's have to be able to contribute to the fight. A lvl 1 mage who casts his one and only magic missile against the first mob doesn't qualify as contributing. Also, a lvl 5 guy with a crossbow in a crypt full of mummies isn't going to be contributing either unless his crossbow is a +2- which hardly any level 5 PC has. Just carrying healing kits won't help because running up to the "tank" (hate using WoW terms when talking about this game), will get you killed thanks to that Attack of Opportunity system. So, unless you're strong enough to personally do business in the dungeon, you're not going to be able to do enough to "contribute". I personally know of one rogue who was ejected from her group by a DM because she was only picking locks and disarming traps- she wasn't effective in fighting what the party was going after. That's a grey area, of course- not every DM will see that as a violation, but it could happen. I personally dislike going anywhere I feel I have to be "protected" by the rest of the party. I was placed in this situation recently by a DM- he sent us into a crypt to fight mummies and my mage couldn't do anything useful except traps and locks- the party had to carry her through and protect her all the way and I hated it... won't do it again, DM event or no. It's just me... I don't like playing the part anymore than I like carrying someone through who shouldn't be there. Pull your weight or don't bother coming is how I see it. But, like I said, it's just my opinion. But during DM event everyone should be able to at least try, unless the Dm says "No chars higher or lower than." |
|
|
|
Post by EDM Entori on Feb 8, 2013 15:50:19 GMT -5
It's not as hard as you might think to survive with a low level character on a high level battlefield. If you insist on being the "tank" on your level 5 barbarian in regular chain mail with a greatsword against epic level monsters, that might be a challenge. But take a bow, flank, cast from a distance, turn invisible and run around with healing kits ... there's a lot of ways even a level 1 mage who's out of spells can contribute in a fight involving level 20 characters. You just have to play smart and focus on what you are in fact able to do. . A lvl 1 mage who casts his one and only magic missile against the first mob doesn't qualify as contributing. Also, a lvl 5 guy with a crossbow in a crypt full of mummies isn't going to be contributing either unless his crossbow is a +2- which hardly any level 5 PC has. Just carrying healing kits won't help because running up to the "tank" (hate using WoW terms when talking about this game), will get you killed thanks to that Attack of Opportunity system. So, unless you're strong enough to personally do business in the dungeon, you're not going to be able to do enough to "contribute". I personally know of one rogue who was ejected from her group by a DM because she was only picking locks and disarming traps- she wasn't effective in fighting what the party was going after. That's a grey area, of course- not every DM will see that as a violation, but it could happen. I personally dislike going anywhere I feel I have to be "protected" by the rest of the party. I was placed in this situation recently by a DM- he sent us into a crypt to fight mummies and my mage couldn't do anything useful except traps and locks- the party had to carry her through and protect her all the way and I hated it... won't do it again, DM event or no. It's just me... I don't like playing the part anymore than I like carrying someone through who shouldn't be there. Pull your weight or don't bother coming is how I see it. But, like I said, it's just my opinion. I was under the impression this is why the "hard and fast" 10 level rule came into effect. unless there is something quotable from elsewhere. Once upon a time. the 10 level hard cap that we have on FRC didn't exist, if you were more then 10 levels but you went with a group anyways the rule was "you had to be useful" which meant you had to contribute, this meaning buffing/defend/ destroying something and making youself "useful" (which I consider locsk and traps given some of the new duegons, especially with knock nerfed). The reasoning to this was that you were making a mint by traveling with higher levels. though that changed with the hard level cap of 10 levels being put in, sure you can travel wtih people beyond 10 levels above/below you but no one benefits. (Ie by not looting/gaining XP) So I wouldn't worry about "contribution" and dm reprimand if your within 10 levels, most likely pinking off a cross bow shot is landing and is in some small way contributing. |
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Feb 8, 2013 15:57:50 GMT -5
It's not as hard as you might think to survive with a low level character on a high level battlefield. If you insist on being the "tank" on your level 5 barbarian in regular chain mail with a greatsword against epic level monsters, that might be a challenge. But take a bow, flank, cast from a distance, turn invisible and run around with healing kits ... there's a lot of ways even a level 1 mage who's out of spells can contribute in a fight involving level 20 characters. You just have to play smart and focus on what you are in fact able to do. Well, there is a server rule in place that implies that PC's have to be able to contribute to the fight. A lvl 1 mage who casts his one and only magic missile against the first mob doesn't qualify as contributing. Also, a lvl 5 guy with a crossbow in a crypt full of mummies isn't going to be contributing either unless his crossbow is a +2- which hardly any level 5 PC has. Just carrying healing kits won't help because running up to the "tank" (hate using WoW terms when talking about this game), will get you killed thanks to that Attack of Opportunity system. So, unless you're strong enough to personally do business in the dungeon, you're not going to be able to do enough to "contribute". I personally know of one rogue who was ejected from her group by a DM because she was only picking locks and disarming traps- she wasn't effective in fighting what the party was going after. That's a grey area, of course- not every DM will see that as a violation, but it could happen. I personally dislike going anywhere I feel I have to be "protected" by the rest of the party. I was placed in this situation recently by a DM- he sent us into a crypt to fight mummies and my mage couldn't do anything useful except traps and locks- the party had to carry her through and protect her all the way and I hated it... won't do it again, DM event or no. It's just me... I don't like playing the part anymore than I like carrying someone through who shouldn't be there. Pull your weight or don't bother coming is how I see it. But, like I said, it's just my opinion. Feel like we are getting back to the old post os how people should behave in a party. and if they aint effective at all time all through the party they should just dont come.. i like the idea of actully playing it as real as possible.. a Rouge is not brought for close combat fighting in a party.. in forgotten realms he is brought along for that exact reson to disarm traps open locks and scouting.. the fighter is brought in to defend the ones in the party with his close combat skills.. and the mage is brought in to the party to that rare situation when something ugly that is about to devour the entire party he steps in and unleash his mighty spells to save the day.. that is how i like to see people play it.. when i use to party with magius.. i wouldn't unleash a Isaacs greater missile storm on a goblin when i have the support of 2 archers and a melee fighter with me.. i would save the strength for when it was needed.. i remember one party we were out in the wild near arabel and a Dm all of a sudden dicidet to kill us..i had saved my spells and pretty much not done much in the party.. but at that moment out fighter died archer's got screwed and very badly hurt very fast.. and well i unleashed all i had and got our party away safely... playing your role in a party is exactly what makes this world real in my eyes.. expecting that every class dose euqeal amount of work all the way through is just naive.. |
|
|
|
Post by soulfien on Feb 9, 2013 6:13:43 GMT -5
I was under the impression this is why the "hard and fast" 10 level rule came into effect. unless there is something quotable from elsewhere. Once upon a time. the 10 level hard cap that we have on FRC didn't exist, if you were more then 10 levels but you went with a group anyways the rule was "you had to be useful" which meant you had to contribute, this meaning buffing/defend/ destroying something and making youself "useful" (which I consider locsk and traps given some of the new duegons, especially with knock nerfed). The reasoning to this was that you were making a mint by traveling with higher levels. though that changed with the hard level cap of 10 levels being put in, sure you can travel wtih people beyond 10 levels above/below you but no one benefits. (Ie by not looting/gaining XP) So I wouldn't worry about "contribution" and dm reprimand if your within 10 levels, most likely pinking off a cross bow shot is landing and is in some small way contributing. Quoted from rules: Powerleveling is defined as a higher level taking a lower level into places they couldn't survive to level them faster. A higher level should not be taking a lower level into places where they would die just stepping in.This means that if a lvl 21 takes a lvl 11 into a really rough area that would kill the level 11 were he alone, then it's power leveling. And yes, I've seen this rule enforced long after the 10 level rule was put in place and this rule, obviously, still exists in the rule list. Thus, even in DM events, if it gets obnoxiously difficult or impossible for my PC, I almost always walk away and find something else to do (or log off is lag is bad due to the event) |
|
|
|
Post by Pedantry INC on Feb 9, 2013 7:34:22 GMT -5
Just carrying healing kits won't help because running up to the "tank" (hate using WoW terms when talking about this game), will get you killed thanks to that Attack of Opportunity system. though a bit off the mark, i might suggest that anyone that has this difficulty look into learning to 'walk' in combat, aka, move carefully so the enemy cannot take advantage of you while repositioning. +1 weapons as a side note injure most mummies and +1 bows are quite affordable. Not to mention alchemists fire can be purchased quite cheaply and overcomes this. Examples used should be perhaps a little more focused on actual fact. ---- A rogue I played was level 11 and was asked to help a level 18. She was able to pick all the locks, traps, as well as hit and deal a lot of damage to enemies despite the level gap. While there was a sense of stress, my character did pretty well so long as she was smart about moving. My other group often takes a mage that is about 4 levels lower than we are, and the spells contributed by the mage allow us to face challenges we otherwise could not. Don't be afraid of the level gap - so long as it is -appropriate- via roleplay and you -can- contribute consistently, IE, participate in action regularly, the opportunities in off level groupings is great. Higher levels serve as excellent mentors, where lower levels can inspire those set in their ways to a little change perhaps, teach old dogs new tricks, as it were. Higher levels can in tihs manner help lower levels expand their horizons and see what's beyond the farm town area. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 8:59:10 GMT -5
Well, there is a server rule in place that implies that PC's have to be able to contribute to the fight. A lvl 1 mage who casts his one and only magic missile against the first mob doesn't qualify as contributing. My comment was made in the context of defending a town from a DM-spawned monster group, not dungeoning. I've never known a DM to fault a player for helping to respond to a threat they spawned and dropped on the players in an otherwise safe area. |
|
Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 706
|
Post by Manshin on Feb 9, 2013 14:47:26 GMT -5
I personally don't like going anywhere unless I need my group to protect my PC to survive as much as they need my PC to protect them.
With kits, walk, don't run. Always useful.
Rinny and Abby were able to be instrumental to Butcher and Kiki against a Frost Giant priestess and a pack of winter wolves(as far as I could tell).
Dispite having only 36 hp (and Rinny close too) we could walk in and apply healing kits, then walk out. There were several close calls, such as getting caught in a Winter Wolf's cone of cold, but we lived, and so did they. It would be hard to argue we didn't contribute. And we weren't even close to being within 10 levels of those two (yes it was a DM thing... don't ban be bro!).
Contributing to me could mean a few things. Hows this for contributing. A low level PC hires high level PCs to take him to a particularly dangerous place so he can perform a holy ceremony at the altar therin. No he has 0 ability to influence combat, but his role playing started the entire thing in the first place, so you could say he's the "main" contributer.
Im not sure I understand the 10 level rule, considering you don't get any XP when you are below the required level split. So long as high levels also withhold loot I can't imagine a purpose to a rule like that. It seems removing the incentive should be enough to make certain that the only reason people would go with someone 10 levels higher is RP. In Abby's case, she can be useful to just about any group so long as they give her invis potions. She never takes loot anyway, so since she wouldn't be getting XP, im not sure anyone wouldn't want her accompanying the Triad group or some other group she has a good reason to "want" to help, dispite level differances.
|
|
|
|
Post by FORSETIS on Feb 9, 2013 18:39:21 GMT -5
Rinny and Abby were able to be instrumental to Butcher and Kiki against a Frost Giant priestess and a pack of winter wolves(as far as I could tell). Dispite having only 36 hp (and Rinny close too) we could walk in and apply healing kits, then walk out. There were several close calls, such as getting caught in a Winter Wolf's cone of cold, but we lived, and so did they. It would be hard to argue we didn't contribute. And we weren't even close to being within 10 levels of those two (yes it was a DM thing... don't ban be bro!).. We would have died without Abby and Rinny there helping, strait up. |
|
