Time to get out of Greatgaunt!

[Savoie Faire]

There isgreat roleplay in Greatgaunt.

Every day you spend there you miss out on an oppotunity to shape the fate fo Valkur's Roar, or Arabel, or any of several dozen other great locations in the module.

Do I think DM's need to 'make you' look elsewhere? Well, no. I think that as players you may want to, because it's really in your best interest to do so.

Much has been made of the scaling issue I discussed, and that was my own personal opinion. It is certainly not a server rule. However, there has never been a shortage of dungeons for levels 6-10. Valkur's Roar and it's vicinity is full of them. There have been times when I have logged in and seen no one in them for weeks at a time, but the dungeons are there, waiting.

So, really, it's up to the players. When I want to host a lowbie-only event in Greatgaunt, I'm not shy about coming up with an IC reason for your group to go elsewhere, and I have been in the past so lazy I simply OOC asked players to leave, or to not involve themselves, in my lowbie event.

I don't want to 'kick the epics out' so much as encourage them to take advantage of the rest of the module. Valkur's Roar, for example, is highly underutilized, but it is a fantastic dungeon complex in it's own right, and perfect for mid-levels. There are other such examples out there, if you take a moment to think about it. Eveningstar comes to mind, but Dhedluk, Arabel, Skull Crag, and other places make excellent starting points for appropriate level-ranges of characters.

Finding these dungeons is in itself a reward, and so much of the 'I'm bored, let's go hack Dungeon X again' can be alleviated when you discover there are alphabets full of dungeons out there waiting for you.

[Blazingshadowz]

This is a little off topic, or late to say, maybe, But here we go!

As any of my characters (Highest being Lv.9) i'm always stuck in Greatgaunt. I would like to go other places, and explore, but like said, the places to go are around Greatgaunt, and that's really it. Everything else is too hard, specially since I usually miss everyone else in my level range to travel with due to them already being busy, missing them altogether with differing timezones, or I finally meet them, maybe want to go somewhere, but they already did everything and can't act within the 1 week rule. So i'm falling behind, I can't do anything by myself, and i'm stuck in Greatgaunt.

I believe in specific this might be happening to wizard/sorcerers because a lot of the spells they have (specially summons) were made almost entirely useless while low level. Unlike other classes (fighters, clerics, paladins, rangers) which weren't nerfed to be entirely dependent on other people.

So in proposition to solving this problem, I think the best way to do it would either be to broaden the places low/mid-levels can go, reduce the difficulty, or remove the nerf on wizard/sorcerer summons, so they aren't doomed to be dependent on others being online.

I think that makes sense! Now sorry for ranting!

[Hellwalker]

Feb 6, 2013 18:24:51 GMT -5 Blazingshadowz said:

This is a little off topic, or late to say, maybe, But here we go!

As any of my characters (Highest being Lv.9) i'm always stuck in Greatgaunt. I would like to go other places, and explore, but like said, the places to go are around Greatgaunt, and that's really it. Everything else is too hard, specially since I usually miss everyone else in my level range to travel with due to them already being busy, missing them altogether with differing timezones, or I finally meet them, maybe want to go somewhere, but they already did everything and can't act within the 1 week rule. So i'm falling behind, I can't do anything by myself, and i'm stuck in Greatgaunt.

I believe in specific this might be happening to wizard/sorcerers because a lot of the spells they have (specially summons) were made almost entirely useless while low level. Unlike other classes (fighters, clerics, paladins, rangers) which weren't nerfed to be entirely dependent on other people.

So in proposition to solving this problem, I think the best way to do it would either be to broaden the places low/mid-levels can go, reduce the difficulty, or remove the nerf on wizard/sorcerer summons, so they aren't doomed to be dependent on others being online.

I think that makes sense! Now sorry for ranting!

The server is balanced for party play. That said, honestly, mages (wizards and sorcerers) are the best classes for soloing at low levels (1-6, and in some cases even a few levels past). Though I do agree that summons specifically aren't very impressive at low levels, but I don't necessarily think they need to be.

I will say, however, that some of us like the difficulty just the way it is, or above if at all possible.

There's usually people around to play with though. I'll repeat what I said earlier in the thread, but this time in a different context; go out there and have a look around. See someone you've never met before standing around in Greatgaunt? Maybe they'll be able to do something with you and help you see the world.

It occurs to me, however, that this is a slight derailment of the topic at hand, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

PS: If you do want pointers concerning how to get by with a lowbie mage however, whether in solo play or party play, I'd be happy to give you pointers by way of PM or ingame, so as not to further derail the current topic.

[TermaForever]

Feb 6, 2013 18:23:40 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

Finding these dungeons is in itself a reward, and so much of the 'I'm bored, let's go hack Dungeon X again' can be alleviated when you discover there are alphabets full of dungeons out there waiting for you.

I don't want to derail my own topic, but the problem with this (and I see this said alot) is that there risk/reward balance for blind exploration of any sort is way out of whack.

You MAY find a nifty dungeon to do, or you more likely will stumble on something that is just going to curb stomp you and undo a month of adventuring in one respawn. You have no way of knowing what you're getting into because there is no IC way of finding out, and in fact at times it seems like the development of the server has gone out of its way to make sure that you don't know and to punish your ignorance harshly.

This is something I've said before but there really needs to be some way ICly of knowing that A) Something might be out that way and B) Its not going to insta-gib you to go explore.

I could start a whole different topic on the adventuring paradigm of FRC and its desperate need of a shift away from being punishing in the not enjoyable sense, but since its something that is unlikely to change, I'm not going to say anything more.

(Other than to give my sympathies to BlazingShadowz because that is precisely what tends to happen to me. and trust me, fighters aren't all that much sunshine. Expensive gear dependent and cookie cuttered into a few builds if they want to make any real progress early on).

Now then - back to the topic.

[ID10Tango]

The only way to know what's out there whether IC or OOC is to just go. There's something out there for just about every level range. Pick a character and get moving. You want to roll new characters out of the vault like a Ford assembly line then yes you will forever be stuck in GG. I somewhat agree that it is a bit of a habit to return to GG for RP when things elsewhere are slow. Some of the things that happen there, whether considered too often or not often enough, at least provide something for people to talk about and roll with.

Hopefully without ruffling anyone's feathers, I must say that having only played on this "new" server it seems to me that a lot of the more recent startups have it pretty easy. When the server came back under temp hosts, there weren't any smiths around to sell +items at cheaper prices. There were areas that were completely unexplored simply because not a single PC was high enough to go there. Hours had to be spent just wandering around because hardly anybody knew where to buy/sell items for the best prices. There were plenty of TPK situations during dungeon crawls because nobody IC knew any better and nobody was around to warn them of the dangers.

I see it often that high lvls and epics that return to GG usually end up bringing something noteworthy to the table, even if it is an all out attack. Now if I have ruffled any feathers with my statements then i sincerely apologize for it was not my intent.

[TermaForever]

No feather ruffled, but I disagree with the sentiment that some people have that "since it was bad once for these people it should stay bad for everyone kind of thing". I don't think that's actually what you were saying but I've seen it come up in discussions here in the (distant) past and well...flash backs

There are ways to spruce the place up and keep it challenging without having to keep it cruel like FRC is often known to be.

I think the topic has drifted enough that it can be closed now. If anyone wants to discuss some of the points related to balance, exploration, etc that were brought up here in a different topic I'd be game.

[Rane]

Feb 6, 2013 18:03:42 GMT -5 TermaForever said:

I'm also not saying that evil shouldn't be evil. But really, is it fun to have a high level evil show up in a town of lowbies and slaughter them all with no prayer of defending themselves? That's griefing in my book. But that's not for me to define and that's not the point of this conversation.

I think most of the points to be made have been made and I'm worried that this conversation is going to drift to the wrong places now.

I think its a reasonable belief that people should consider ways that they can get out of town, see the world, and let the lowbies have their time in the lowbie zone. Its also seems to be something a lot of people can agree on, I think.

Lol here we are again. So ill comment on this... Assaults are going to happen. Usually one epic against about fifteen people... There was another epic in town and one near it that died to by te way...


One epic cant take the town. We attacked fast and hard. Now this is one of the many reasons i did it. Because everyone is growing too comfy, too many of you people have te courage to accuse a necromancer in the open, or slander an epic level banite in the streets.

WhAt are we supposed to do? Are the evil players just supposed to take insults, and do nothing? Well you can call me a griefer all you want but teo dms were there one witnessing everything. if what I did was wrong ide be in alot of troubel right now but im not.

Not only were you all growing a bit too comfy and letting everything become a bit too much routine, BUT... There was a ton of rp leading up to this attack.

If you werent involved in that rp then you are now. Maybe instead of whining you should try to figure somethin out about it. Ive tried to offer clues on the related forumn post and noone seems to care.


Its truly shocking how you can all be like this, and cast soo many insults my way for switching up your cozy little world. Slaughter will happen. Ive played kross on the new vault since it came back up. If you think a town slaughtered by an epic is commonplace then your wrong. In kross's time he has attacked greatgaunt once and although the goal was achieved, oocly I wont do it ever again.


Its funny though, if a dm drops undead on all of you and you get a tpk, you all laugh. But if your attacked by an actual evil pc you claim grief. Im sorry I ever tried to act my own alignment.


Side note

*this is ontopic, you did bring it up on your own thread*

[kalbaern]

Feb 6, 2013 16:09:27 GMT -5 Munroe said:

I still want a widget to temporarily disable the day/night cycle.

Not possible.

[arisnorman1]

i'v been on a server where the dms held it as day. then would change it to night then back. I know there is a way but not sure if a hak is needed.

[kalbaern]

Feb 6, 2013 23:12:16 GMT -5 arisnorman1 said:

i'v been on a server where the dms held it as day. then would change it to night then back. I know there is a way but not sure if a hak is needed.

Not possible without glitching spell durations amonst other things.

[Extropy]

It could be simulated easily enough, though it might not be the best idea for other reasons.

[arisnorman1]

ahh well then perhaps dm messages throught out a short time reminding people of it being day time or night?

[Extropy]

WRT areas for low levels .. some of the areas near Greatgaunt & Valkur's Roar will be changed (or restored to the module) in the near future, which will give more options.

There are also a number of areas suitable for 7-10 outside of this region, but certainly they can be dangerous to find amongst other areas that are not for that level range. Whether that's a good or bad thing, really depends on your playing style & expectations.

[FORSETIS]

Everyone is welcome to hang out at the Tipsy Imp =)

[sky]

Feb 6, 2013 23:33:45 GMT -5 FORSETIS said:

Everyone is welcome to hang out at the Tipsy Imp =)

it is a pretty enjoyable place.

[arisnorman1]

All my toons hang there lol. getting to up class tho i liked it when it was a run down junk of a building

[TermaForever]

We're off topic now, and apparently I've managed to anger some people. Its what I get I guess for trying to start a sensible dialogue in a place where such things are frowned upon.

This thread can be locked now, or it can continue I guess depending on DM judgement. I've said my piece and now I'm quite done with the topic.

[Rane]

It does make me angry when you accuse me of being a griefer. Thats true.

[TermaForever]

Feb 7, 2013 7:27:29 GMT -5 Rane said:

It does make me angry when you accuse me of being a griefer. Thats true.

No. I gave what I thought was a definition of griefing and also pointed out that my definition and the servers definition were not the same and therefore your actions, if disagreeable to me personally, were in the bounds of the rules. Poor choice of wording on my part? Looking back, yes.

I already sent you my full thoughts in private. I don't want to get dragged into the hateful discussion springing up around what happened, though you seem quite intent to do just that, and I don't really understand why. I will say that this is the last time in a long time I ever post suggestions or thoughts on here. Its really not worth it.

[Rane]

Keep your accusations to yourself and then there isnt anything to argue about. You implied im a griefer, then said that your post was sensible. It isnt sensible to act innocent and make accusations. Thats all im going to say. Continue with the OP topic if you like.

[TermaForever]

Feb 7, 2013 7:58:38 GMT -5 Rane said:

Keep your accusations to yourself and then there isnt anything to argue about.

I already said it was poor choice of wording. I am not making individual accusations anywhere.

I'm going to delete the long post I just started to make in response and instead simply say that I am sorry if you're seeing accusations everywhere and that your goal has been accomplished sir, I will not be on these forums now.

[Savoie Faire]

First warning: the topic will remain civil.

I highly advise players to seek a PA intermediary to help them discuss their differences with other players when they have become emotional on an issue. PA's love to help, and can translate 'angry rant' to 'respectful discussion of differing opinions'.

Bringing angry rants to the forums is not going to end well for any involved party.

[828stingstingneo]

Funny story:

My husband once stepped into Greatgaunt with a character and the load was really slow. He was able to guess how many players were in Greatgaunt based on the load time. ;D

All my characters on the new vault are low enough that they almost have to stay in Greatgaunt. (Sure, they can go to other towns from the Welcome Area, but they can't actually do any adventuring there.) I still don't like to hang around Greatgaunt if too many people are there. The lag bothers me, and I can't follow conversations when everyone is talking at once. If there are more than about seven people in any area, I usually leave. So, I think one really effective way to get people out of Greatgaunt would be to add laggy scripts that would activate when too many people are standing around. Also, if Frubo would start singing out loud when Greatgaunt is crowded, believe me, people would leave. Just a thought. Okay, just an evil thought.

[soulfien]

Due to recent events:

Epics and lowbies should never fight- there ARE IC ways to NOT fight.

Any evil cleric with 30 wisdom is going to find a better solution than to fight a lowbie who expresses a distaste over their god.

Any highly intelligent mage can realize that maybe killing someone who belittled their faith may be a bad idea when their faith is already deemed as being against the law.

This is why I'm all for establishing some sort of separation between Toril and "Epic Land" in order to give high levels something else to do other than to hang around the only starting town in the game.

"Epic Land" should be difficult to get to, have lots of things to make it appealing, and it should take a long time to get back from- even with teleportation.

[soulfien]

Here's an idea- place a teleport cage around Greatgaunt and make it a dead magic area.

Can't teleport in or out of the town.

Sure, people can leave the gates and teleport away, but it'd be a nice long walk since one can't teleport TO it.

Also, remove the caravan from Greatgaunt. If adventurers want to travel there, they can walk.

This type of strategy has already proven effective at limiting travel to the most beautiful city in the entire server. I won't say its name in case people don't know about it, but trust me- if teleportation or carvans to and from this place were put in place, people would indeed hang around there much more often!

[magiuss]

i dont understand why people wanna keep epics out ?.. only reson you guys are acting like this is cause ''in my opinion'' u look at it with ooc eyes.. an epic char.. is just a person whom is known to have good fighting prows.. in game there isnt a thing called lvls.. there is no epicness.

and besides that.. i like hanging out in Greatgaunt with my epic char because i like to meet the new people joining the server and want to give them good experiences about the server.. i also use the place to market off items at fair prices to people who just started. if you rly want to have people more spread and ''thin out'' people from the area.. make more starting towns like greatgaunt. with same difficulty areas.. untill then people will cluster in greatgaunt because It's here majority of the people low-right before middle hangs out. and high lvl people dont wanna log in to run around alone for a few hours to lolg off again. waiting months maby years for people to get up their lvls..

last year of playing magius i pretty much kept from adventuring.. i spent my time telling stories and having conversations with new people getting them interrested in the server.

just my opinion atleast. can't rly stop the dm team for changing anything about it anyways

[arisnorman1]

it is because people want rp. But dont want higher lvls in town that can actually kill those who down talk the pc. epics should be in my eyes a part of any town every town needs a hero and a villan.

[ID10Tango]

There's plenty of other places for people who want to rp around gg...like the swimming hole to the west.

[soulfien]

Feb 7, 2013 16:14:25 GMT -5 magiuss said:

i dont understand why people wanna keep epics out ?.. only reson you guys are acting like this is cause ''in my opinion'' u look at it with ooc eyes.. an epic char.. is just a person whom is known to have good fighting prows.. in game there isnt a thing called lvls.. there is no epicness.

and besides that.. i like hanging out in Greatgaunt with my epic char because i like to meet the new people joining the server and want to give them good experiences about the server.. i also use the place to market off items at fair prices to people who just started. if you rly want to have people more spread and ''thin out'' people from the area.. make more starting towns like greatgaunt. with same difficulty areas.. untill then people will cluster in greatgaunt because It's here majority of the people low-right before middle hangs out. and high lvl people dont wanna log in to run around alone for a few hours to lolg off again. waiting months maby years for people to get up their lvls..

last year of playing magius i pretty much kept from adventuring.. i spent my time telling stories and having conversations with new people getting them interrested in the server.

just my opinion atleast. can't rly stop the dm team for changing anything about it anyways

Epic PC's who can travel the planes, challenge the very power of the gods, and cleave axes through mountains or change the fabric of reality with spells, should have more important things to do with their time than hanging out in a farming town associating with upstarts wearing rusty makeshift armour who can barely lift a sword or cast a cantrip.

It's OOC for them to remain in Greatgaunt when there are bigger and better things for them to do.

In PnP, my epic mage would have his own tower with a library that would be second to Candlekeep and he'd only be there when he wasn't visiting his winter home in the elemental plane of fire. The City of Brass is nice this time of year.

[Lady Frost]

Feb 7, 2013 18:53:02 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Feb 7, 2013 16:14:25 GMT -5 magiuss said:

i dont understand why people wanna keep epics out ?.. only reson you guys are acting like this is cause ''in my opinion'' u look at it with ooc eyes.. an epic char.. is just a person whom is known to have good fighting prows.. in game there isnt a thing called lvls.. there is no epicness.

and besides that.. i like hanging out in Greatgaunt with my epic char because i like to meet the new people joining the server and want to give them good experiences about the server.. i also use the place to market off items at fair prices to people who just started. if you rly want to have people more spread and ''thin out'' people from the area.. make more starting towns like greatgaunt. with same difficulty areas.. untill then people will cluster in greatgaunt because It's here majority of the people low-right before middle hangs out. and high lvl people dont wanna log in to run around alone for a few hours to lolg off again. waiting months maby years for people to get up their lvls..

last year of playing magius i pretty much kept from adventuring.. i spent my time telling stories and having conversations with new people getting them interrested in the server.

just my opinion atleast. can't rly stop the dm team for changing anything about it anyways

Epic PC's who can travel the planes, challenge the very power of the gods, and cleave axes through mountains or change the fabric of reality with spells, should have more important things to do with their time than hanging out in a farming town associating with upstarts wearing rusty makeshift armour who can barely lift a sword or cast a cantrip.

It's OOC for them to remain in Greatgaunt when there are bigger and better things for them to do.

In PnP, my epic mage would have his own tower with a library that would be second to Candlekeep and he'd only be there when he wasn't visiting his winter home in the elemental plane of fire. The City of Brass is nice this time of year.

And you would be bored out of your mind RP'ing reading a book for hours at a time in your tower. (well you might not, you seem to RP well on your own, but most people would). RP'ing by yourself isn't nearly as entertaining as actually doing what you're RP'ing. Players want to interact with other players. Telling someone they shouldn't want to sit and RP with new players, tell stories, and not be out adventuring is silly. We aren't our characters and can't get nearly the enjoyment of doing what they would "normally" do. We get the enjoyment by interacting with others.