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Post by Church of Bane on Oct 28, 2020 6:37:21 GMT -5
Church of Bane I hate to repeat it, since it has been said so many times before. You are the one thst spoke of the "recent events". And you used these events in a sentence in your OP as the reason for your post. Now I can get your frustration over hat this is something that happens all the time, and that it might have nothing to do with recent events. And before you get all defensive about it again, I know what you said. But the sentence with the recent events is there, in that post, staring in our faces as the reason for this thread. Everyone who wants to join in the thread will ignore the 4 pages of the comments already made, but they will always see your post speaking of the events as the reason for your post and the poll. If these events are not the reason, and we shojld ignore them, why are they in that post? There is an explanation you owe here. And I don't mean you need to explain the events. Uoj need to explain why you have them in the OP at all. Consider this comment. Make an explanation post, and I beg you - edit your first post to retcon that sentence and explain in that post that you did it and why. Thank you for the reply but this thread was not made due to just one event, or the last event. It's an overall thing, and recent events that have happened were the straw that broke the camel's back. I have already stated my stance on revealing IC info OOCly, and everyone who has responded here has not been involved in events that either have already been mentioned or the ones I have not talked about. So trying to dig on what specific events have caused this post is pointless. I'm not going to edit the original post. Most comments wouldn't change if the original post was edited to how you want them to be constructed anyway.
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Post by Southpaw on Oct 28, 2020 7:04:10 GMT -5
My take on the "recent events" comment is that it serves to indicate a basic motivation for starting the thread, and is a point that's meant to be moved on from. If this is going to be such an issue that people can't get past, I might suggest that Church Of Bane go back to the OP and edit that comment out of the OP. If a person spills the beans on the forum about what events led them to start a thread like this, they're causing drama on the forum and this is bad. If they don't spill the beans on the forum about what events led them to start the thread, they're holding back and not telling us everything, and this is bad. Guys ... let's move on from that singular point. A question was posed. The reason for asking doesn't change your answer.
On the subject, to CoB, I'd suggest that you don't know the reasons so many people have suggested players not be allowed to play evil characters. It might not be that anyone is in any way offended by the presence of evil PC's. It could be motivations that are more out of consideration to that player, such as, allowing evil PC's lets people get their hopes up that they'll be able to accomplish things they can't, and leads to *them* being disappointed, at least to some people. I wouldn't read too much into the number until people who voted "no" come out and say why.
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Post by mandene on Oct 28, 2020 7:29:34 GMT -5
@southpaw That's an interesting analysis on the votes. I didn't even concider it a possibility. Good call.
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Post by Razgriz on Oct 28, 2020 8:47:43 GMT -5
I purposedly avoided naming any ;) Years ago, my paladin was killed in a PvP in Gretagaunt that originated from evils selling fingers taken from purple dragon bodies. When it all concluded, the leader of those evils, a prominent banite at the time, emoted something like "The Gates of the Thayan Enclave are Closed". I believe that event also was a sore point on how evil got treated on OOC knowledge, due to the destruction that was put out, around 10 wails of banshees cast (( if I recall correctly)) would have left all farmers/townsfolk dead, aka no witness's) and that every PC there also was killed. so how the knowledge and information about what happened occurred ((is still a riddle to me this day)). back then a lot of people also left the server (( or took a long break)) due to the ''IC'' knowledge that was thrown around by these events :P as you stated your self your PC died ((so how would he have gained the knowledge)) due to the memory haze that happens to people that dies. And if I recall correctly, every member there was in disguise. But this event was a poorly executed thing by ''Us'' as evil PS's that I'll give ya i still regret it to this day as it made me leave a server i love to play on for over 1 ½ year It should not have happened, and I believe it was due to some hot blood running at that time. Not all were dead. Zeek and some others were still standing. Anyway, that was like 7 years ago and I don't really care. Edit: Some were not in disguise.
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Post by bloodalchemist on Oct 28, 2020 9:07:47 GMT -5
The benefits of my RP should have no effect on your play. I'm not here to be a dancing monkey for others. Nor should you be here to be my punching bag. That's not how this works. That's not how this should work. Your story is your own, and I should have no influence over it unless we cross paths in game. Ok, highlighting this as an issue specifically, because I think it perfectly captures in essence a large issue I've seen in the broad community of nwn for a long time, and couldn't better identify it till stepping away and more towards tabletop a few years ago. Im not saying anyone needs to take on a role of punching bag or dancing monkey, and having that mindset at all is setting up for a bad time, on all sides, in any conflict storytelling. I know this might sound reductive, or like im being an ass, please hear me out though I'm really not trying to be. This is a shared storytelling experience. It is distinctly not tabletop i know, but its trying to capture the same communal storytelling elements from it and share it across a broader swath of players and stories, with entire dm teams, not just singular dms. Its really important to remember that almost always, unless a dm is specifically running an story catering to an evil party doing evil things, even if evil alignments are at the table, pvp is an incredibly rare thing. The dm has the responsibility of creating villains, minor, major and otherwise for the party to overcome as a larger part of the story and mechanical play of dnd. The second you as a player, take on a role of conflict in this equation, no matter if you are good or evil, or if you are at a table or behind a pc, you are stepping into dm territory. This can be an amazing thing, conflict is important, its real and it breathes life and consequence into stories, but as aggressors seeking conflict you now are taking upon yourselves (good or evil, both sides must remember this as aggressor roles in starting conflict be it rp/pvp or a mix of both) you now as someone taking on a dm role, must also take on the same job requirements. You are taking on a role, not a power play position. You are trying to create story, not wins, not victory points or even your own personal story. You are in DM TERRITORY- if you are starting fights, you are signalling to other players that you want to be engaged and interacted with, and like a dm, should be able to find a fair way to play things out within the game so that everyone has fun, win or lose. If a player isnt, its on you to ask why, to try and find a compromise and understanding or if you are unable to, to give that player an out so as to let the stories diverge and go their own way so no one's fun within this -game- is sabotaged for the others. Dming is hard. So is playing conflict oriented characters, no matter good or evil. You have to have a solid sense of fair play, good sportmanship and understand that at the end of the day, you are helping to make story. By taking on that role, you have the responsibility just like a dm to make sure those involved in your story are having fun and a chance to tell their own within it. Those who jump in also owe you the same respect, just as a player should respect the time and energy their dm puts in, a player that jumps into a conflict should appreciate the chance given, when or lose, to have an interesting story that another player has taken the time to offer others inclusion in. The point still stands though, if you are beginning conflict-you're in dm territory now baby. Get ready to have people give you a squeeze and tell you to cough, every chance they get. Its hard, thankless work, and we dont get paid for it. You do it for the love of helping others grow stories with you, or you shouldnt be doing it at all, full stop.
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Post by Church of Bane on Oct 28, 2020 9:20:04 GMT -5
If evil is needed to fulfill your story as team good then team evil isn't the one missing something, and team evil isn't the one that needs to better think their overall plan or goals.
It should not be mandatory that we all interact with each other. There should be some level of choice involved, and to state otherwise defeats the purpose of players having a choice in what their characters can and can't do.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Oct 28, 2020 9:42:25 GMT -5
Dming is hard. So is playing conflict oriented characters, no matter good or evil. You have to have a solid sense of fair play, good sportmanship and understand that at the end of the day, you are helping to make story. By taking on that role, you have the responsibility just like a dm to make sure those involved in your story are having fun and a chance to tell their own within it. Those who jump in also owe you the same respect, just as a player should respect the time and energy their dm puts in, a player that jumps into a conflict should appreciate the chance given, when or lose, to have an interesting story that another player has taken the time to offer others inclusion in. The point still stands though, if you are beginning conflict-you're in dm territory now baby. Get ready to have people give you a squeeze and tell you to cough, every chance they get. Its hard, thankless work, and we dont get paid for it. You do it for the love of helping others grow stories with you, or you shouldnt be doing it at all, full stop. This.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 12:15:47 GMT -5
Regarding votes, it should also be considered that many people do not use the forums for daily social interactions such as this. Of the thousands of people registered, and the likely hundreds we have that play somewhat or really actively throughout multiple timezones etc, a small fraction of the most vocal have weighed in, and none have yet given a reason that they don't want evil characters on FRC. So 1/3 of voters said No, none gave an actual answer, and many many many more probably will never see or respond to this post. I think it's pretty solid that 2/3 of players who regularly visit the forum are fine with evil characters on FRC and thus see them as fulfilling a need. That nee to them might be someone else likes to play them and the need is fun. It might be that they contribute to server events and stories. I would like to see some of the no voters comment though. It is somewhat disheartening that 1/3 of regular forum users so far do not feel that evil characters should be allowed. Is having others play evil characters affecting your fun that much? I am honestly curious, mostly because I have played evil alignment for over a decade now and have never once thought FRC would be a better place without the other half of the alignment spectrum. Even as a player of evil, I'm going to be totally honest and say that I could do without brawls inside greatgaunt that kill all NPCs, bystanders, adventurers, etc. This kind of activity impresses no one and rarely contributes to a good story. The number of times I have seen PC led slaughters inside the town has made it a cliche. These kind of forays into the realm of cyricist type evil are a half step from grieving. Sometimes less than a half-step. That brand of evil -just might- be better left to the DM Team and NPCs.
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Post by Animayhem on Oct 28, 2020 12:16:29 GMT -5
Also everything we as players do, regardless of alignment, should not revolve around a DM plot. Don't we have our own stories to tell? Why are we waiting on them (the DMs)? That has never made sense to me. Yes it is true this is an rp server and players should be and for the most part are. Sometimes a dm is needed for the plot to continue for that person or persons.
It can be hard sometimes when a dm has started a plot but due to rl reasons it is interrupted and does not continue causing players to try and revamp.
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Post by Animayhem on Oct 28, 2020 12:36:21 GMT -5
I don't consider it that big of a deal honestly. You can assume that probably most NPCs and common folk at least pay lip service to a handful of evil deities, for their own good. I think it's a thing that needs discussion. Players seem to assume that it starts and ends with patron deities when most people pay tribute to many deities. It's only a little off topic and it's relevant. One of the things that evil PCs do to fill a void sometimes is act more like real realmsites. You don't seem to be focused at all on the hidden evils so much as the outed evils. There are realms traditions of paying tributes to evil deities and that's a void filled primarily by evil PCs most of the time, even if very few of them. One of these PCs might draw the attention of a deity or it's faith into a plot with their worship or lip service to said deities. Evil is subtle and complex and much less 'Up Front'. I think most good characters already regard Darkharp as at least a dark neutral. regarding Beshaba Beshaba was revered more out of fear than out of religious faith. Her doctrine stated that bad luck befell everybody and the only way to avoid it was by worshiping her.regarding Talona Festivals are held every 12 and are open to nondevotees, where such visitors are encouraged to pray and give offerings to Talona to spare themselves or loved ones from death, disease, wasting illnesses, and the like.regarding Shar many seek out her servants in times of grief or bereavementregarding Malar Along the frontier and in wilderness settings, however, those who must hunt for food reluctantly pay homage to the Beastlord, even as they fear his cruelty.I understand all of that as I am quite versed in The Realms. My point is I should not learn about your character through the forums. I should learn about your character in game (and preferably in game only). Forums are necessary. There are rp public, rp password and guild. We live in different time zones and have lives outside of gaming. You can read the public rp forums for instance and if a character seems to peak your interest, you can always send them a PM and arrange times to meet. Yes this "Takes away from Spontaneity" but fact is fact. I have set times when I come in game as I feel like coming in game. If given enough time and it is feasible I make exceptions.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 13:10:29 GMT -5
Also everything we as players do, regardless of alignment, should not revolve around a DM plot. Don't we have our own stories to tell? Why are we waiting on them (the DMs)? That has never made sense to me. Yes it is true this is an rp server and players should be and for the most part are. Sometimes a dm is needed for the plot to continue for that person or persons. It can be hard sometimes when a dm has started a plot but due to rl reasons it is interrupted and does not continue causing players to try and revamp.
Depending on what type of roleplay you enjoy, a DM isn't necessary most of the time. They aren't needed to monitor everything, especially regular social interactions (this is 70% of my existance as a character), research and other things requiring rolls can be logged and sent to the corresponding DM (language learning, plot relevant research). It also largely depends on ones dedication to a plot and/or cause. I spend most of my time lingering in the pass of ruin or at cloudstone because it's reflective of what I am doing 'off camera' with my efforts. I do semi-regular performing at Cloudstone which requires no DM, and I do forum roleplay to reflect my efforts in the pass. It's not necessary for the plot that I live and work in the pass of ruin, but I am doing it anyways because it isn't realistic to think I have the funding to caravan around Cormyr and make appointments in the Stonelands, Marsember, Suzail, VR and GG. I make exceptions for important events elsewhere. My own story has never been one that DMs tell, it's a story I tell and DMs occasionally participate in. It's the thing I love about NWN PWs. I get to tell the part of my story that takes place in the majority of time, off camera time, that isn't accounted for well in PnP most times. I consider that the really fun part of this, my character has a life off the simulated tabletop we play on when DMs are available, or have pre-planned events.
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Post by arcadiadragonloy on Oct 28, 2020 13:48:24 GMT -5
just a few quick coppers...I voted yes, eventhough I don't play that often anymore and Chrys has predominately been team good to team neutral some of my favorite RP moments with her has been when her and some of team evil in the past have had common purpose and not always in the crowns best interest. I do so miss Darkharp Ailren and sometimes Ranan and her glaring at each other and her going "fine" then a week later sharing a beer and a song.
Evil Pcs are extremely needed and valid on this server and I enjoy the fact they exist and have their own stories and goals
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 14:52:52 GMT -5
The Crown absolutely takes losses. We spent a good period of FRCs history in a period where the nation was completely divided and territory the crown owned was a new state. Eventually this area was brought back into the fold as sort of a campaign reset, but it doesn't change the fact that the crown took a heavy loss that lasted years. The Obarskyr Dynasty has lasted like 1000 years and rarely has the DM Team really had to unleash even part of the might that upholds them. The War Wizards are underused intentionally to allow evil PCs to exist and operate. Then provide examples of what evil PCs own that used to belong to the Crown, that the Crown has not been able to take back. Again I'm not wanting this thread to derail, but it seems to be heading that way. Going back to this,your expectation should most likely never be to take Nd hold a swathe of territory of any size from Cormyr. The thought is ridiculous on the face of it since Cormyr has not only a large standing army well known for its military might, but also a large order of wizards, ominously known as the war wizards. The might of both the Dragoneers and the WW is legendary. Unless you can field an army with a division hosting exceptional arcane might, or somehow turn Cormyrs own against the king, shoot way way lower.
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Post by Razgriz on Oct 28, 2020 17:36:47 GMT -5
It is somewhat disheartening that 1/3 of regular forum users so far do not feel that evil characters should be allowed. Is having others play evil characters affecting your fun that much? These forums are not a troll-free zone though. Unless the 11 Nay sayers so far truly dislike evils, PvP or conflict between characters altogether, I would take those 11 votes with a grain of salt.
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Post by scrubyoukai on Oct 28, 2020 17:40:47 GMT -5
I voted no on the poll and reading the comments above, it seems like many people are wondering: "Who in their right mind wouldn't want evil characters?" I feel like I should explain my point of view.
A bit of background first, I have a few evil characters: a necromancer and a sharp tongued bounty hunter. I also have a paladin whom I enjoyed playing quite a bit. I usually prefer good-aligned characters, as a matter of fact.
From my time playing both evil characters, I noticed that player character conflict nearly inevitably leads to simple player conflict. I voted no because it seems to me that the server is not equipped to properly support evil characters. I have seen multiple ragequits over injustices (whether they are perceived or real is irrelevant in my humble opinion). Should there be evil characters? Definitely. Should there be Player Character conflict? Also definitely and it can be done. EDM Plotter's events are the gold standard on how to handle player character conflicts, in my opinion.
I think where things get difficult for evil aligned characters is the feeling like DMs aren't there to back them up or support them and the impression that, for the most part, the known evil groups are considered a bit of a joke by most PCs. These two sticking points makes it very frustrating for some players, who just want to have fun, and eventually leads to Player conflict, that is, conflict between the players instead of keeping in-character.
I think there is some work to be done by the players and the DMs to bring the server to a place where characters of all alignments are accepted, which is why I voted no since, as things currently are, there is a lack of communication between players of characters of varied alignments to ensure that everyone has a fun time playing their characters. Ultimately, we all just want to have fun.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 18:04:14 GMT -5
I voted no on the poll and reading the comments above, it seems like many people are wondering: "Who in their right mind wouldn't want evil characters?" I feel like I should explain my point of view. A bit of background first, I have a few evil characters: a necromancer and a sharp tongued bounty hunter. I also have a paladin whom I enjoyed playing quite a bit. I usually prefer good-aligned characters, as a matter of fact. From my time playing both evil characters, I noticed that player character conflict nearly inevitably leads to simple player conflict. I voted no because it seems to me that the server is not equipped to properly support evil characters. I have seen multiple ragequits over injustices (whether they are perceived or real is irrelevant in my humble opinion). Should there be evil characters? Definitely. Should there be Player Character conflict? Also definitely and it can be done. EDM Plotter's events are the gold standard on how to handle player character conflicts, in my opinion. I think where things get difficult for evil aligned characters is the feeling like DMs aren't there to back them up or support them and the impression that, for the most part, the known evil groups are considered a bit of a joke by most PCs. These two sticking points makes it very frustrating for some players, who just want to have fun, and eventually leads to Player conflict, that is, conflict between the players instead of keeping in-character. I think there is some work to be done by the players and the DMs to bring the server to a place where characters of all alignments are accepted, which is why I voted no since, as things currently are, there is a lack of communication between players of characters of varied alignments to ensure that everyone has a fun time playing their characters. Ultimately, we all just want to have fun. I understand this perspective, but I do not agree with disallowing evil characters even if this were true. Some people can obviously deal with the level of frustration you allude to (but to be clear playing an evil character has always been more challenging to me than frustrating. Just because one person cannot operate within these perceived constraints does not in any way mean others cannot. Lets take another group, single them out, and see how it feels to you. These, by the way are not my views, but I am going to scapegoat a particular group: Elves that are not wardens. Elves that are not wardens have complained a good deal recently about the lack of proper places of worship, and how difficult it is to get to the Elven settlement, without DM aid they cannot operate as elves who want to live in the settlement. Lets run a poll and see if non-hullack elves should be allowed because they feel marginalized and do not get enough DM interaction. We might as well just not let people be elves at all because the server wasn't designed for them, there is only one place for them to hang out and it's so hard to get to that it's not worth it. Even the Hullack elves and Wardens who aren't complaining at all and are fine with working their way to a point where they can get there, should just probably be included in the poll on wether or not people can actually play elves at all. I guess what I am very, not subtly saying is: Just because you get frustrated and do not enjoy it...doesn't mean -I- do.
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Post by Lady Frost on Oct 28, 2020 18:12:56 GMT -5
I voted no on the poll and reading the comments above, it seems like many people are wondering: "Who in their right mind wouldn't want evil characters?" I feel like I should explain my point of view. A bit of background first, I have a few evil characters: a necromancer and a sharp tongued bounty hunter. I also have a paladin whom I enjoyed playing quite a bit. I usually prefer good-aligned characters, as a matter of fact. From my time playing both evil characters, I noticed that player character conflict nearly inevitably leads to simple player conflict. I voted no because it seems to me that the server is not equipped to properly support evil characters. I have seen multiple ragequits over injustices (whether they are perceived or real is irrelevant in my humble opinion). Should there be evil characters? Definitely. Should there be Player Character conflict? Also definitely and it can be done. EDM Plotter's events are the gold standard on how to handle player character conflicts, in my opinion. I think where things get difficult for evil aligned characters is the feeling like DMs aren't there to back them up or support them and the impression that, for the most part, the known evil groups are considered a bit of a joke by most PCs. These two sticking points makes it very frustrating for some players, who just want to have fun, and eventually leads to Player conflict, that is, conflict between the players instead of keeping in-character. I think there is some work to be done by the players and the DMs to bring the server to a place where characters of all alignments are accepted, which is why I voted no since, as things currently are, there is a lack of communication between players of characters of varied alignments to ensure that everyone has a fun time playing their characters. Ultimately, we all just want to have fun. I understand this perspective, but I do not agree with disallowing evil characters even if this were true. Some people can obviously deal with the level of frustration you allude to (but to be clear playing an evil character has always been more challenging to me than frustrating. Just because one person cannot operate within these perceived constraints does not in any way mean others cannot. Lets take another group, single them out, and see how it feels to you. These, by the way are not my views, but I am going to scapegoat a particular group: Elves that are not wardens. Elves that are not wardens have complained a good deal recently about the lack of proper places of worship, and how difficult it is to get to the Elven settlement, without DM aid they cannot operate as elves who want to live in the settlement. Lets run a poll and see if non-hullack elves should be allowed because they feel marginalized and do not get enough DM interaction. We might as well just not let people be elves at all because the server wasn't designed for them, there is only one place for them to hang out and it's so hard to get to that it's not worth it. Even the Hullack elves and Wardens who aren't complaining at all and are fine with working their way to a point where they can get there, should just probably be included in the poll on wether or not people can actually play elves at all. I guess what I am very, not subtly saying is: Just because you get frustrated and do not enjoy it...doesn't mean -I- do. Heh. I think I feel like you're taking this poll as a "lets get rid of evil" as opposed to "what's everyone opinion on whether playing evil here makes sense". I don't think you need to defend playing evil like it might be going away. That wouldn't happen. It's just opinions. I think I can feel your anxiety. ❤
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 18:20:21 GMT -5
I understand this perspective, but I do not agree with disallowing evil characters even if this were true. Some people can obviously deal with the level of frustration you allude to (but to be clear playing an evil character has always been more challenging to me than frustrating. Just because one person cannot operate within these perceived constraints does not in any way mean others cannot. Lets take another group, single them out, and see how it feels to you. These, by the way are not my views, but I am going to scapegoat a particular group: Elves that are not wardens. Elves that are not wardens have complained a good deal recently about the lack of proper places of worship, and how difficult it is to get to the Elven settlement, without DM aid they cannot operate as elves who want to live in the settlement. Lets run a poll and see if non-hullack elves should be allowed because they feel marginalized and do not get enough DM interaction. We might as well just not let people be elves at all because the server wasn't designed for them, there is only one place for them to hang out and it's so hard to get to that it's not worth it. Even the Hullack elves and Wardens who aren't complaining at all and are fine with working their way to a point where they can get there, should just probably be included in the poll on wether or not people can actually play elves at all. I guess what I am very, not subtly saying is: Just because you get frustrated and do not enjoy it...doesn't mean -I- do. Heh. I think I feel like you're taking this poll as a "lets get rid of evil" as opposed to "what's everyone opinion on whether playing evil here makes sense". I don't think you need to defend playing evil like it might be going away. That wouldn't happen. It's just opinions. I think I can feel your anxiety. ❤ The name of the thread we are commenting is 'Should FRC continue to allow evil player characters? '. Those who voted no do not feel that we should be allowed to play evil characters for whatever reason. I find that more than a little offensive to be honest. I can understand that maybe someone -else- doesn't have fun playing evil characters on FRC, but...because of that it should be something that is removed as an option? I don't buy it. It's passive aggressive 'if I can't do it no one should be able to'.
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Post by PhatDorf on Oct 28, 2020 18:27:42 GMT -5
There are definitely flavors of evil characters I don't particularly enjoy, and then others which MAKE the entire game for me. I'd take the bad with the good, we've all got different abilities, and I know other people enjoy the styles I don't... But it doesn't make them invalid because its not my cuppa tea.
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Post by scrubyoukai on Oct 28, 2020 18:34:40 GMT -5
Heh. I think I feel like you're taking this poll as a "lets get rid of evil" as opposed to "what's everyone opinion on whether playing evil here makes sense". I don't think you need to defend playing evil like it might be going away. That wouldn't happen. It's just opinions. I think I can feel your anxiety. ❤ The name of the thread we are commenting is 'Should FRC continue to allow evil player characters? '. Those who voted no do not feel that we should be allowed to play evil characters for whatever reason. I find that more than a little offensive to be honest. I can understand that maybe someone -else- doesn't have fun playing evil characters on FRC, but...because of that it should be something that is removed as an option? I don't buy it. It's passive aggressive 'if I can't do it no one should be able to'. I was simply voicing my opinion and, frankly, I am a little hurt that you're reacting so strongly when I just wanted to open a door to a simple discussion... Regardless of this poll's results, I will happily continue playing my evil characters, since I have fun playing them... as Lady Frost mentions, I took this as "what's everyone opinion on whether or not playing evil here makes sense." Sincerely, ScrubYoukai
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 18:43:28 GMT -5
The name of the thread we are commenting is 'Should FRC continue to allow evil player characters? '. Those who voted no do not feel that we should be allowed to play evil characters for whatever reason. I find that more than a little offensive to be honest. I can understand that maybe someone -else- doesn't have fun playing evil characters on FRC, but...because of that it should be something that is removed as an option? I don't buy it. It's passive aggressive 'if I can't do it no one should be able to'. I was simply voicing my opinion and, frankly, I am a little hurt that you're reacting so strongly when I just wanted to open a door to a simple discussion... Regardless of this poll's results, I will happily continue playing my evil characters, since I have fun playing them... as Lady Frost mentions, I took this as "what's everyone opinion on whether or not playing evil here makes sense." Sincerely, ScrubYoukai So I asked people who voted no to comment. I wanted to know if you actually wanted evil players to not be an option since thats what you voted for in the poll. There weren't like a plethora of options other than yes or no. You feel strongly enough that the server doesn't support evil characters that you would take the ability to play them away from everyone...even when you enjoy playing yours and will continue to play them? Seems like you should have voted yes.
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Post by scrubyoukai on Oct 28, 2020 18:44:34 GMT -5
I was simply voicing my opinion and, frankly, I am a little hurt that you're reacting so strongly when I just wanted to open a door to a simple discussion... Regardless of this poll's results, I will happily continue playing my evil characters, since I have fun playing them... as Lady Frost mentions, I took this as "what's everyone opinion on whether or not playing evil here makes sense." Sincerely, ScrubYoukai So I asked people who voted no to comment. I wanted to know if you actually wanted evil players to not be an option since thats what you voted for in the poll. There weren't like a plethora of options other than yes or no. You feel strongly enough that the server doesn't support evil characters that you would take the ability to play them away from everyone...even when you enjoy playing yours and will continue to play them? Seems like you should have voted yes. That's unfortunately not what I said in my post and I would invite you to read it again. Cheers! ScrubYoukai
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Post by Church of Bane on Oct 28, 2020 18:48:48 GMT -5
I was simply voicing my opinion and, frankly, I am a little hurt that you're reacting so strongly when I just wanted to open a door to a simple discussion... Regardless of this poll's results, I will happily continue playing my evil characters, since I have fun playing them... as Lady Frost mentions, I took this as "what's everyone opinion on whether or not playing evil here makes sense." Sincerely, ScrubYoukai So I asked people who voted no to comment. I wanted to know if you actually wanted evil players to not be an option since thats what you voted for in the poll. There weren't like a plethora of options other than yes or no. You feel strongly enough that the server doesn't support evil characters that you would take the ability to play them away from everyone...even when you enjoy playing yours and will continue to play them? Seems like you should have voted yes. That's your opinion, but let's not let our opinions overshadow points like that scrubyoukai made, or make them feel like they have to conform to your point of view. Btw thank scrubyoukai you for sharing your thoughts. I echo a lot of what you said.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 18:51:17 GMT -5
So I asked people who voted no to comment. I wanted to know if you actually wanted evil players to not be an option since thats what you voted for in the poll. There weren't like a plethora of options other than yes or no. You feel strongly enough that the server doesn't support evil characters that you would take the ability to play them away from everyone...even when you enjoy playing yours and will continue to play them? Seems like you should have voted yes. That's unfortunately not what I said in my post and I would invite you to read it again. Cheers! ScrubYoukai I read what you wrote really carefully. You think that it leads to player conflict, and not character conflict, to cut it down to a sentence. I read the other bits but that is the crux of it. I will again reiterate, that has not happened to me. There have been minor things sure, but they were usually more concerned with rules, not me and another player being pissed at each other. If what you think is true, is true, it still doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to play an evil character. You and a handful of other people not liking the experience you had, doesn't equal me also going down that road and ragequitting. I have played a character for 14 years that became evil over 12 years ago. I am really enjoying it, love it. I have lots of fun playing my character and interacting with a variety of other characters. I really have trouble wrapping my head around me not being able to play my character because someone else tried it and didn't have fun, and argued with other players because of it.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 18:59:37 GMT -5
So I asked people who voted no to comment. I wanted to know if you actually wanted evil players to not be an option since thats what you voted for in the poll. There weren't like a plethora of options other than yes or no. You feel strongly enough that the server doesn't support evil characters that you would take the ability to play them away from everyone...even when you enjoy playing yours and will continue to play them? Seems like you should have voted yes. That's your opinion, but let's not let our opinions overshadow points like that scrubyoukai made, or make them feel like they have to conform to your point of view. Btw thank scrubyoukai you for sharing your thoughts. I echo a lot of what you said. I am not asking anyone to conform to anything. The current way things stand is that evil players are allowed. You have introduced a poll to see if they should be or not. Those who voted no, have an opinion. In their opinion I would need to conform to some new guidlines with set forward expectations for what I was allowed to accomplish, or not be able to even have the option of playing evil.
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Post by Church of Bane on Oct 28, 2020 19:00:23 GMT -5
That's unfortunately not what I said in my post and I would invite you to read it again. Cheers! ScrubYoukai I read what you wrote really carefully. You think that it leads to player conflict, and not character conflict, to cut it down to a sentence. I read the other bits but that is the crux of it. I will again reiterate, that has not happened to me. There have been minor things sure, but they were usually more concerned with rules, not me and another player being pissed at each other. If what you think is true, is true, it still doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to play an evil character. You and a handful of other people not liking the experience you had, doesn't equal me also going down that road and ragequitting. I have played a character for 14 years that became evil over 12 years ago. I am really enjoying it, love it. I have lots of fun playing my character and interacting with a variety of other characters. I really have trouble wrapping my head around me not being able to play my character because someone else tried it and didn't have fun, and argued with other players because of it. Just because you have a different experience than others doesn't invalidate the experience someone had. Just because someone votes on something doesn't mean something is being taken away from you. I never thought I would have to use expressions used IN REAL LIFE to defend someone points about their thoughts, and experiences in a game, but here we (censored)ing are.
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Post by iangallowglas on Oct 28, 2020 19:03:26 GMT -5
Heh. I think I feel like you're taking this poll as a "lets get rid of evil" as opposed to "what's everyone opinion on whether playing evil here makes sense". I don't think you need to defend playing evil like it might be going away. That wouldn't happen. It's just opinions. I think I can feel your anxiety. ❤ The name of the thread we are commenting is 'Should FRC continue to allow evil player characters? '. Those who voted no do not feel that we should be allowed to play evil characters for whatever reason. I find that more than a little offensive to be honest. I can understand that maybe someone -else- doesn't have fun playing evil characters on FRC, but...because of that it should be something that is removed as an option? I don't buy it. It's passive aggressive 'if I can't do it no one should be able to'. From my experience as a player advocate, I'd say that some if not all the "no" votes are legitimate votes. Ill admit the possibility of votes being made to "troll the poll", but the sentiment is out there. As to why no one is "coming out" to say why they voted no, well, I think that people know their opinion is not looked upon favorably by the community, and they are potentially opening themselves up to ridicule. Who wants that? Also...Good did not win the Zorastryl Plot. Evil won. Marister is not the Lord of a Zorastryl Barony, Evil still haunts the Zorastryl Manor. It may be just that the Evil that won was not the evil your side was backing. That's my 2 cents from a player with a character that was involved from the beginning of the plot, who spent his personal treasure financing Marister, (and lost it all) and put his skin and reputation on the line. Seamus DOES NOT consider it a win.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Oct 28, 2020 19:09:32 GMT -5
I read what you wrote really carefully. You think that it leads to player conflict, and not character conflict, to cut it down to a sentence. I read the other bits but that is the crux of it. I will again reiterate, that has not happened to me. There have been minor things sure, but they were usually more concerned with rules, not me and another player being pissed at each other. If what you think is true, is true, it still doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to play an evil character. You and a handful of other people not liking the experience you had, doesn't equal me also going down that road and ragequitting. I have played a character for 14 years that became evil over 12 years ago. I am really enjoying it, love it. I have lots of fun playing my character and interacting with a variety of other characters. I really have trouble wrapping my head around me not being able to play my character because someone else tried it and didn't have fun, and argued with other players because of it. Just because you have a different experience than others doesn't invalidate the experience someone had. Just because someone votes on something doesn't mean something is being taken away from you. I never thought I would have to use expressions used IN REAL LIFE to defend someone points about their thoughts, and experiences in a game, but here we (censored)ing are. Yes. Here we are. One player who thinks that the server isn't equipped to play evil, so questions whether or not anyone should be able to do it at all, and another player who has managed to get along just fine in an entire world of both good and evil characters for many many years, and will for many more. I think if you want a real conversation about improving things for the brand of evil that you play, you should just have that and not frame it as 'should we even be allowed to do this because I don't really like it'.
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Post by Church of Bane on Oct 28, 2020 19:11:33 GMT -5
Just because you have a different experience than others doesn't invalidate the experience someone had. Just because someone votes on something doesn't mean something is being taken away from you. I never thought I would have to use expressions used IN REAL LIFE to defend someone points about their thoughts, and experiences in a game, but here we (censored)ing are. Yes. Here we are. One player who thinks that the server isn't equipped to play evil, so questions whether or not anyone should be able to do it at all, and another player who has managed to get along just fine in an entire world of both good and evil characters for many many years, and will for many more. I think if you want a real conversation about improving things for the brand of evil that you play, you should just have that and not frame it as 'should we even be allowed to do this because I don't really like it'. Thank you for your opinion, but I (nor anyone else) has to frame anything to fit your point of view. You have stated your points ad nauseum now. If you have anything new to share then fine. Otherwise let's not bicker about this anymore, shall we?
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Post by scrubyoukai on Oct 28, 2020 19:12:21 GMT -5
Just because you have a different experience than others doesn't invalidate the experience someone had. Just because someone votes on something doesn't mean something is being taken away from you. I never thought I would have to use expressions used IN REAL LIFE to defend someone points about their thoughts, and experiences in a game, but here we (censored)ing are. Yes. Here we are. One player who thinks that the server isn't equipped to play evil, so questions whether or not anyone should be able to do it at all, and another player who has managed to get along just fine in an entire world of both good and evil characters for many many years, and will for many more. I think if you want a real conversation about improving things for the brand of evil that you play, you should just have that and not frame it as 'should we even be allowed to do this because I don't really like it'. I actually made the point that I think a healthy discussion would be a good idea, if you take the time to read my post. I'm sorry you're taking this so roughly. Cheers! ScrubYoukai
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