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Post by Dachshund on Sept 11, 2006 0:06:54 GMT -5
Is True Seeing even going to be nerfed? Has it been decided yet? And who decides it? The DM's? The Community? The Rogues?
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Post by olwentheold on Sept 11, 2006 1:51:13 GMT -5
All that said and done, it's not that we (or specifically, I) don't listen to the rants of the community, I would like point out that I (and every other builder, DM, and player here) have only X hours a day to build, DM, play (and yes, I don't care what you expect from me, from us, I do want to play too), so every minute spent trying to figure out something that I think isn't that big of a deal (i.e., that affects only a handful of sad players who abuse the system), is every minute lost better spent in making/doing something that would benefit the community at large.
I honestly don't see it to be such a big deal that I have to dedicate hours to figuring out how to modify true seeing to 20' or whatever. My time can be better spent churning out new towns and quests. I like to give the benefit of the doubt to players that they will not abuse stealth or true seeing - if I catch that in action - SMITE! nuff said.
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Post by Dachshund on Sept 11, 2006 4:24:01 GMT -5
Thank you.
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Post by Dachshund on Sept 11, 2006 5:56:51 GMT -5
My time can be better spent churning out new towns and quests. I don't think there's a single player on FRC who wouldn't agree with you on that.
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Post by soulfien on Sept 11, 2006 15:36:51 GMT -5
Manshin doesn't see things like I do- or maybe he's not as evil as he would like people to believe Say True seeing is reduced to 20'... Say I'm a rogue following Manshin, the paranoid wizard with extended True Seeing... I follow about 50' behind him using stealth and when he begins running off at high speed I turn off stealth and keep up (with not having any loud enchantments he'll never know someone is following him) and when he slows down I immediately reengage the cloaking device... Then just as he stops to rest (or true seeing finally wears off), I come in fast and hard and kill him. Even with True Seeing at it's current level it's still possible to assassinate a mage- it's just not as easy.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Sept 11, 2006 15:59:50 GMT -5
Let's take your example soul. Manshin takes off at a sprint. You have to wait till he is no longer in visible range of your character before you can turn off "the cloaking device", otherwise you will be autospotted. Now it is a game of guess where manshin was headed. If you are lucky, you know where he was headed. BUT! If he stops suddenly and you run up on him out of stealth mode, as soon as he comes in visual range, you will be automatically spotted. So in your example, you have to be doubly lucky of 1) knowing where the person is headed and 2) catching up to them while stealthed.
Unless of course Manshin refuses to rotate his camera and use the tab key (regardless of floating names). Course this leads to the point that nerfing true seeing to 20' would actually help people who stealth through invisibility the most, because they can switch between running and walking on a whim.
I cannot tell you how many times I have been following people and they broke into a sprint and I was not able to find them again, even without true seeing.
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Post by soulfien on Sept 11, 2006 16:09:48 GMT -5
even if you have the camera all the way zoomed out you still can't see all the way back to the limits of visual range so if you don't have any loud enchantments or lights (aka bells, whistles, or neon signs saying "thief is over here") then they won't know. It's so easy to follow someone as long as you're careful and quiet- then when you want to engage cloaking device agian, run up a hill, around a large tree, just outside range and back in, etc.... for one, it's SUPER easy with a 20' range (otherwise you all wouldn't be pushing it so hard so don't ague that point ) and it's even possible if you're careful at the normal visual range.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Sept 11, 2006 16:21:49 GMT -5
even if you have the camera all the way zoomed out you still can't see all the way back to the limits of visual range I'll have to double check this with a lower resolution, but I know without a doubt that as a player, on the highest resolution, i can see beyond Hroth's visual range.
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Post by Laurk on Sept 11, 2006 18:12:24 GMT -5
We have got to stop spamming this topic. It was meant as a place where spell effects and changes to them would be suggested not a debate topic where we refute each other endlessly. I will make a new topic for the debate of true seeing.
Laurk
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Post by dajuke on Sept 15, 2006 21:20:12 GMT -5
well, since this is a topic about spell effects, i'll throw my two cents in about shapechange. First, i want to aploligize to dirkperfect for putting these thoughts there. sorry man wasn't trying to be rude just seemed a good place for them. I just reached lvl 17 and was all excited to try out my new shapes. Then I took my newly changed red dragon form agains a group of basic remnant orc mercs and started to watch their simple arrows picking me apart. I had to change back just so I could defeat them. This got me thinking that a bit of tweaking would make this spell much more useful, indeed even worth of being put into a slot. Because right now there are only two useful spells, elemental swarm and mass heal for a druid when he gets to the ninth level. Earthquake hurts everyone, summon IX lasts a short time and can't be extended, storm of vengeance is useless. so this is what i was thinking about the forms, and feel free anyone to disagree, yell at me, whichever, i'm just hoping to get some kind of response.
Dragon form-keep mainly as is, but add a limited breath weapon, say 2-3 times, that way it will actuailly be useful in an emergency when things suddenly get overwhelming.
Giant-add the ability to throw boulders for those times when a sling just can't do the job
iron golem-perhaps an acid attack like it's main counterpart?
death slaad- really nothing much to change, cause it alread has great armor, and that regen 5 every round? is huge
balor-maybe spawn with one of the swords that the summon has? not quite sure on that one
and here's the kicker- make them shorter duration. Perhaps whatever the summon duration is i forget. This makes them less useful as a form to just go running around in, and makes up for the added boost, which seems a reasonble hope for those who spent a year or more getting the form. I realize this will only affect wizards and druids. For wizards it gives the nod to what phelzaron said, making it that much harder to prepare spells for different situations and making their spell more useful. and for druids it would actually give us a third spell that we could use at that level. so i've gone long enough here with my whining. Let the flood begin! *opens the floodgates* And also remember folks, that when in these forms no other abilities, skills, or spells can be used save for what is inherent to that creature, so it's not a path to being "godlike". ok, thanks for listening ;D
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Post by Munroe on Sept 15, 2006 22:18:32 GMT -5
One reason dragon shape and golem shape don't have their breath weapons is because those would basically be temporary feats, which would have to be transferred or created feats usable by the player. ( could be reused from RDD, but it would have to be modified for non-RDD use.) These new feats would require not just additional coding but an additional client side file as well for every player. Then the means of giving these feats to a player and taking them back would have to be developed. The only means I can think is to give the player a temporary item in their inventory that allows them to use the feat on the item. I would say put it on a hide and temporarily equip that hide, but abilities on hides for use can be problematic on its own. What's really great about the Shapechange spell in 3.5e D&D is that you can assume a new form every round for the spell's duration, and it can be any non-unique creature you can think of between fine and colossal. You can be a dragon one round, a flea the next. THAT is a powerful spell. Unfortunately, that's not the NWN version.
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Post by dajuke on Sept 15, 2006 23:47:23 GMT -5
ah, so that explains it then. I don't know much about scripting, and i know the class is banned, (sadness cause it is the whole reason I started a druid in the first place ) but i was just wondering how that works with the shifter class and the druids ancient dragon form which is unlocked at levels too high to even dream of. I know they each have a special skill which is why I thought this might be a possiblity. does it make a difference for those special shapes that the abilities are unlimited, so don't require all that coding stuff? as well, at least two of the druid's elemental froms have form specific feats for the shapes (drowning for the water and knockdown for the air) just wondering, and thanks for the response.
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Post by Hackmaster on Sept 15, 2006 23:52:11 GMT -5
No sweat Dajuke I did not mind at all and if you keep reading in that thread you will notice it is very easy to derail me cause I got AD&D....errr.....A.D.D. I mean....Someone talks about something else I am all over it and then pass off to something else entirely without a moment warning HAHA Oh well....
Well....Not sure if this can be done or not but I know you can make a potion of Fire Breathing. I made them before and I think they seem to be more potent with the level of the player? Don't quote me on it but I used it as a first level and it only did like 10 HP's of damage if it even effected the monsters most saved and took no damage that I was aware of. I used it with a epic level and I was getting between 40 - 69 HP's of damage in it's area effect.
What if the script called into the Players Inventory these potions to use like say three of them. Then when the Dragon form was broken by the player or the spell wore off the script removed any remaining potions of fire breathing from the Inventory? The player would merely go to inventory when they transformed drop them in a quick slot and BAM! Toasty Wheats and Raisins! That might be the simplest way to do that. Not sure.
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Post by dajuke on Sept 16, 2006 11:06:45 GMT -5
hey, this is great stuff. Thanks for the thoughts guys. anyone else? keep it coming
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Post by Munroe on Sept 16, 2006 19:24:47 GMT -5
I really know nothing about the shifter forms so I can't really say regarding how ths shifter works. I would assume it works roughly same way as the shapechange and Wild Shape except that any extra stuff it has is built-in already.
I should also say that I am not a scripter, so everything sounds hard to me. However, I am with the understanding that it would involve client-side files. Part of the design of FRC is to require only CEP in addition to NWN+SoU+HotU so any additional client-side files would violate a design ethic.
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Post by soulfien on Sept 16, 2006 22:41:58 GMT -5
I think there's nothbing wrong with the iron golem form. Personally, it's my favorite form. 25 damage reduction and immunity to mind spells, level drain, death magic, critical hits, sneak attack, ability drain, etc... just don't get hit by lightning or have dispel magic cast on ya and head into a crypt! I never wasted my time with the dragon form- it sucks. Big, bad, and umm.... yeah, that's about it. oh, that's right- it gets immunity to fire and true seeing. Big deal.
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Post by Munroe on Sept 17, 2006 3:15:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I like Iron Golem form myself. I used that once on another server for all the immunities. Very handy. Of course as I was a rogue, I only used it once.
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Post by Hackmaster on Sept 17, 2006 15:20:53 GMT -5
Yeah the Iron Golem is Fairly Useful I can agree with that. At least as far as keeping you from dieing a little longer. It's the one I usually use.
The Slaad has one decent use for me as well I discovered other then regeneration. Having one heck of a Dexterity bonus if I need to pick a difficult lock, transform into that sucker and I can usually get that complicated lock. Odd use of a form I suppose but it usually works. A wizard is not very good at picking locks but that form helps boost his meager skills into a moderate thief.
The other forms, the giant, and the Dragon, only look semi-cool and do little. They should be made a little more beneficial. A dragon should be feared. A fear radius and breath weapon would make that form beneficial. The giant....Only thing I can think of is giving the poor guy a weapon...maybe he can be the heavy hitter of the four forms. He is kinda just crappy in my mind...nobody ever talks about using the giant and for good reason.
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Post by Retired DM Gallin on Sept 18, 2006 0:15:49 GMT -5
While you talk of changing the spellshape spell, keep in mind that you don't want to unbalance the wizard/sorcerer class alltogether. On the list of other 9th level spells, they already have time stop, multiple instant multi-kill spells, the ability to summon balors, etc. etc. The higher level spellcasters are already on the verge of monstrous, if you keep beefing up the other spells, you'll unbalance it as a class.
~Gallin
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Post by dajuke on Sept 18, 2006 10:06:33 GMT -5
*jumps up and down excitedly as he sees other people talking*
YEAH, i totally agree about the golem and slaad, and basically what people are saying. I also understand gallin your thoughts on wiz/sorcs, which is why i mentioned that the the altered forms take away any other skills and the ability to cast spells, so while a wizard could turn into a dragon breathing fire, well, one they're big and can't fit through doors *subtle hint* and two unless there's some merchant out there selling level 9 spells *reyvan runs off yelling whoo hoo!* then that wizard still has to choose what spell he's going to pick for hi lvl, instant kill or that big nasty dragon? yes they would both be badass spells, but how many wizards actually make it hight enough to throw around lvl 9 spells with impunity? they should be mighty and feared. and the wizard now has one more choice to agonize over when memorizing those vital spell slots
And druids would get that nice third spell that would actually be useful at lvl 9 ;D
and dispel magic strips it right away (believe me, i know) so it's not really a god form, just another tool for fun tactics and planning. Anyway, thanks everybody for your thoughts on the matter. *crosses fingers*
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Post by Dachshund on Sept 18, 2006 14:17:18 GMT -5
Has any clerics experienced problems with Magic Vestment? I've noticed that recently it "only" makes my armor a +4 one and I cast it at level 17. It's supposed to be +1/3 levels, +5 max. Has it been capped or something? Grozer, has Ranan felt weak lately? And if so, could it please be posted in the top thread?
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Post by soulfien on Sept 18, 2006 14:34:01 GMT -5
hmmm if that's the case with greater magic wepon as well then there won't be anymore breaking through DR of stoneskin, greater stoneskin, or premonition.
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Post by Grozer on Sept 18, 2006 15:02:58 GMT -5
Has any clerics experienced problems with Magic Vestment? I've noticed that recently it "only" makes my armor a +4 one and I cast it at level 17. It's supposed to be +1/3 levels, +5 max. Has it been capped or something? Grozer, has Ranan felt weak lately? And if so, could it please be posted in the top thread? He is NEVER weak! But yes, seems Magic Vestment is now capped at +4.
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Post by soulfien on Sept 18, 2006 17:33:51 GMT -5
what about Greater Magic Weapon?
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Post by Grozer on Sept 18, 2006 19:26:04 GMT -5
what about Greater Magic Weapon? still gives up to +5 but duration shortened
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Post by Booze Hound on Sept 21, 2006 13:49:50 GMT -5
Visual effects removed from Barkskin and stoneskin are AWESOME!
the party actually looks like a group of adventurers rather than a rolling ball of rocks and sticks. the characters get to retain their identity, and none of that awkward looking all dumb when you come back to town.
Kudos to Ainur for getting that done! you rock!
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Post by soulfien on Sept 21, 2006 13:55:50 GMT -5
truely?! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think poor Phelzaron had something to do with this decision, not having access to Premonition and everything
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Post by olwentheold on Sept 21, 2006 13:57:32 GMT -5
Has any clerics experienced problems with Magic Vestment? I've noticed that recently it "only" makes my armor a +4 one and I cast it at level 17. It's supposed to be +1/3 levels, +5 max. Has it been capped or something? Grozer, has Ranan felt weak lately? And if so, could it please be posted in the top thread? Fixed, check main post.
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Post by olwentheold on Sept 21, 2006 13:58:46 GMT -5
I think poor Phelzaron had something to do with this decision, not having access to Premonition and everything Really? Bah, who cares about that puny Neomage?
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Post by gathera on Sept 21, 2006 15:34:43 GMT -5
I see the changes to Planar ally. Hmm okay so what does Neutral Evil get. Just wondering. Okay just another question on summonings then. Is there a way to select on the Summon Creature to select the elemental type or to at least block water out. Just a character thingie.
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