Shadow and Shadow weave.

[ritefoot]

I have been playing Naralia for two years and this creepy little elf has only just gained 4th level spells. As such she now have the chance to cast Shadow spells and so I would like to ask a few questions.
Shadow weave is not allowed on the server. (Shar’s little trick to tick off Mystra, big in the underdark)
Shadow Spells are on the other hand not shadow weave and more powered by tapping the shadow plane.
Summoning shadows is frowned on RPwise as they are in the end undeadish.
Given this and that I know that Shadows and their plane drain and corrupt life, Is there anything I need to know so that the use of the word Shadow is both Weave and Planer Spells does not end me up bothering DMs and players by crossing any lines of bad play?
Also shadows are treated like demons when looked at from a social level. By summoning them and letting them loose, you are guilty of draining life, on the other hand you are not getting someone’s dead granny to walk about looking for the brains of the innocent.
Though it is still on a par with Necromancy.
Naralia has no interest in Shadow Weave and is looking for herself, Shadows however like her.
Any info would be of use.
Rite.

[EDM Neo]

See this topic.

Shadow conjuration spells are illusions, and can be cast using Mystra's weave. My understanding is that they use "shadowstuff" to make the illusion partially real, but, it's still just that, an illusion. You aren't normally creating actual shadows with it, just partially real illusionary ones, that fade away when the spell's duration runs out.

[ritefoot]

That is great news and leaves my first plan for Naralia not needing any changes at all. That they are illusions would fit even better than I had planned.
One question about the shadow spells though. If they are only illusions how come the summon shadow one has the energy drain ability.
Is that shadow and the Mastiff one really only an illusion?
Rite.

[EDM Neo]

Here're some links to the PnP versions of the spells.

Shadow Conjuration

Shadow Evocation

Shadow Conjuration, Greater

Shadow Evocation, Greater

I won't quote all of them (you can read them in the links yourself), but, here's regular Shadow Conjuration:

Shadow Conjuration
Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with); varies; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text

You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.

Shadow conjurations are actually one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things, though creatures who believe the shadow conjurations to be real are affected by them at full strength.

Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature.

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless the affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth (20%) damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow conjuration’s level (4th) rather than the spell’s normal level. In addition, any effect created by shadow conjuration allows spell resistance, even if the spell it is simulating does not. Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them.

Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.

A shadow creature has one-fifth the hit points of a normal creature of its kind (regardless of whether it’s recognized as shadowy). It deals normal damage and has all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature that recognizes it as a shadow creature, however, the shadow creature’s damage is one-fifth (20%) normal, and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work. (Roll for each use and each affected character separately.) Furthermore, the shadow creature’s AC bonuses are one-fifth as large.

A creature that succeeds on its save sees the shadow conjurations as transparent images superimposed on vague, shadowy forms.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.

Really, I think we'll just have to blame it on game mechanics. As you can read above, in PnP, they could be used to summon illusionary doubles of anything, not just shadows, but that if recognized as an illusion, whatever effect is replicated would be much weaker. If not recognized as an illusion, it has it's full effect. Mind over matter and all that.

[ritefoot]

Thanks!
Rite.

[EDM Entori]

Illusion
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause
people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there,
hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.
Representative illusions include silent image, invisibility, and veil.
Illusions come in five types: figments, glamers, patterns, phantasms,
and shadows.
Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who
perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly
different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental
impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be
something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot
duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically
says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language
you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak,
the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual
copy of something unless you know what it looks like.
Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot
produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They
cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide
nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently,
these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless
for attacking them directly. For example, it is possible to use a silent
image spell to create an illusory cottage, but the cottage offers no
protection from rain.
A figment’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.
Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities,
making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or
even seem to disappear.
Pattern: Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that
others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see
it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.
Phantasm: A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually
only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive.
This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a
personalized mental impression. (It’s all in their heads and not a fake
picture or something that they actually see.) Third parties viewing or
studying the scene don’t notice the phantasm. All phantasms are
mind-affecting spells.
Shadow: A shadow spell creates something that is partially real
from extradimensional energy. Such illusions can have real effects.
Damage dealt by a shadow illusion is real.
Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering
an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize
it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some
fashion. For example, if a party encounters a section of illusory floor,
the character in the lead would receive a saving throw if she stopped
and studied the floor or if she probed the floor.
A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false,
but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline. For
examples, a character making a successful saving throw against a
figment of an illusory section of floor knows the “floor” isn’t safe to
walk on and can see what lies below (light permitting), but he or she
can still note where the figment lies.


A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice
something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion
isn’t real needs no saving throw. A character who falls through a
section of illusory floor into a pit knows something is amiss, as does


one who spends a few rounds poking at the same illusion. If any
viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this
fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4
bonus.


//

PHB states this ((as above))
//

Shadow is one of the different types of illusions, they are equally dark and chaotic (I think this is why shadow has Undead properties in NWN)

However, the shadow weave, is completely different from the weave.

if say elf, who has known only one weave his life, and some say are slightly attuned to a weave suddenly goes the other way. well it just wouldn't work, or feel very off RP wise.

In terms of mechanics I cannot remember where I saw it but I do know that say a mystra weave mantle won't stop a shadow weave spell. Or something like that

they are polar opposites. I think of a magnet when i think of the separate weaves, but I have not done much research into the shadow stuff at all.

[EDM Entori]

Mar 24, 2009 7:46:21 GMT -5 ritefoot said:

That is great news and leaves my first plan for Naralia not needing any changes at all. That they are illusions would fit even better than I had planned.
One question about the shadow spells though. If they are only illusions how come the summon shadow one has the energy drain ability.
Is that shadow and the Mastiff one really only an illusion?
Rite.

I would prefer the mastiff to stay throughout the levels, the same as I would prefer the battle horror mortekins sword summons is weak as anything. at least some DR is needed for a round per level summon, it sucks.

but again that would come from the PHB quote above, the shadow is an extra dimensional energy (freaky gestures)


but besides that your guess is as good as mine, maybe someone with a bit more knowledge in the undeath version of things would know more.

But again it depends on the character and the roleplay of the spell I think