Immersion (Not the DM)

[DM Richard (Retired)]

entori said:

I have been one of those few who have spent 12-16 hours on FRC+ on certain days. But that has varied widely in my experience. I generally these days find that the RP is lacking in some individuals, I mean the I'm bord lets go hunt.... is a silly phrase.

first of all, your a twiddly little human/elf/dwarf. And thats a big mean Giant! it hunts you, you don't hunt it. I find that if your rping and that leads to going into the storm horns .. sure fine, but when people just leave cause the others are not getting where they are going fast enough (time constrains is one thing, but just getting annoyed cause their not getting their XP) there is something wrong. I mean I will say it, I prefer to sit down and RP, I find it more rewarding and the many "Slow leveler extremes" really are a great example, but they do what they enjoy.

Just sometimes I find the 'immersion' or 'realism' I have seen in the past on FRC, is somewhat lacking these days. Again in specific people. Many people I love to RP with, and many I don't get to just due to diffrent timezones/ character alignments (not the CG LG. I mean just how the characters are different)

anyways I would like to say that is been seen though in my opinion and I goes along with the farming post immersion has bumped more then once.

MHO.

ent

[DM Richard (Retired)]

shadowcatjen said:

This is going to sound, really really weird, but...

If you want to develop your characters personality more, have him/her find a hobby.

I kid you not, this works. It helps a player get into the mentality of that PC. What sort of hobby would your character have that didn't include combat training (i.e. going to fight creatures)? Do they like to read, gamble, go fishing, make wood carvings, work on a garden? There are a ton of options when you think of it.

This adds to two things: One, your characters personality when they are not in the heat of battle making them seem richer. Two, other PCs viewing what your character is doing, maybe taking an interest and then striking up a conversation with you.

One of my characters sometimes sees to the vegetable garden next to the Regal Griffon Inn. I've had quite a few other PCs come along and inquire things and all I had her do is emote tending to the garden. It honestly doesn't take that much imagination to find something along these lines.

Another thing that helps with it is when you think of why your character may take up a hobby it could help with filling out his/her history. Another character of mine took up fishing. After some thought I had it that it was also a hobby her Uncle (the person that raised her) had taught her. She found a love for it herself and continues it to this day.

It has nothing to do with combat, it has nothing to do with training, it has nothing to do with your character's ultimate goal. However, it does add an aspect to your character that will give them more depth and gives a reason for your character to do something other then "hunt". It generates a different sort of RP that can fall under that "realism" category.

Hope this helps.

[DM Richard (Retired)]

richard said:

Here are a few tips I would recommend to anyone that wants to slow down and add to the immersion.

1. Have the character spend time making friends with other characters. This is more than just traveling together... it includes getting to know them and their personality.

2. Develop a personality for your character. Know why the character will react in a specific way. I'm talking about more than an alignment check.

For example while a chaotic character might not be stopped by the fact that a door was locked, if he comes across one would he bash it, pick it, remove the hinges, or decide this is to much work and leave it alone? (In other words is your character one that resorts to strength, intelligence or skill to remove obstacles or is he to lazy to deal with an obstacle?)

If you are a thief what type of thief are you a con man, a thug, a cat burglar or maybe a politician? ;D

3. Have your character spend time learning things.

These are just a few things to get this started. Anyone who has tips feel free to add more.

*grumbles because ShadowCatJen got hers in first*

[DM Richard (Retired)]

entori said:

immersion I think is a key to this problem.

IF you cannot explain going after a pack of powerful giants/orcs in Character and not just .. 'I heard there were orcs around here'

I mean get into the role! polish your blades, prepare, pray for luck

other such things, also to travel to one spot or another WALK, that leads RP, camp out for the night when you have to stop RP it. fish if you need it. this is all battle oriented.

Also I really should start a seperate thread for this, but if the immersion is the key to the problem. Spell names, speech should all be FRC ified, IE Cone of cold does not exsist as s uch, a spell that conjures a blast of frigid air etc would be a good descripton. This all adds to the Rp.

When you get that deep with it, the thoughts of character sheets and other things tend to disappear, you think about your characters wants hopes dreams.

Now the other side of this coin is I can hear folks saying 'its there to be used' yes it is. But best example I have for a really well RP plot was, we needed to go see a npc in castle craig with a group of members, the guy arranging the meet rped it needing supplies, we found giants along the way, we Rped them giving trouble to the castle and thuse we wandered into the hills did we go direct ot the cave even though most of us had been there before? no we made sure that area was giant free!. Then went back and told the npc. Not because a DM will reward us because it was IC

thats all it is, if your character is the barbarian who HAtes orcs, 'lets go orcs might cut it' I think though its pretty cut and dry thus boring. character development leads to interesting RP. Thats the point to FRC!, not levels, not gold not loot. none of it matters, outside of the story everyone adds to.

its just a big book and we play characters in it.

[Rashai]

Thank you for the feedback. I hope it helps others as much as it will help me. I really like the hobby idea. I'm going to use it.

richard said:

3. Have your character spend time learning things.

Would you elaborate, please? I may be hung up on the game mechanics of learning...

entori said:

When you get that deep with it, the thoughts of character sheets and other things tend to disappear, you think about your characters wants hopes dreams.

That is the heart of the matter...being able to forget the concept of the character as a set of stats in favor of the concept that the character is a role to play in a story. I'll have to ponder how to flesh out my character to facilitate this.

[EDM Entori]

thank you richard

[DM Richard (Retired)]

rashai said:

Thank you for the feedback. I hope it helps others as much as it will help me. I really like the hobby idea. I'm going to use it.

richard said:

3. Have your character spend time learning things.

Would you elaborate, please? I may be hung up on the game mechanics of learning...

What I'm talking about should be broken into the two groups, actual skills and imaginary skills.

Actual skills are those that are implemented in NWN and actually have scores like craft armor, appraise, detect traps, etc. When you level up you get points to spend in these skills which is purely game mechanics without any immersion value. However someone who is emoting the learning process as they learn or use the skill will be more immersing to their audience.

Someone could just crafting you a weapon in 5 seconds and say "here you go". Or someone can emote out the things he is doing while making the weapon. If you are wanting to learn that skill you can even:
1. emote watching what he is doing
2. express interest in learning
3. Have a dialog with him where he has you follow his instructions in working the metal

Sure it makes the job take longer but if he can draw you into the game with his story telling (emotes and conversation can create a vivid picture) isn't it worth the extra time?

Other skills that are implemented that you might not think of in that manner are languages. You have to have the intelligence modifier and not all of your languages chosen to actually get a language token but it is something that you can learn.

Even if you can't learn a skill you can spend time studying it. After all it is also realistic to fail sometimes when you attempt to learn something new.

Then there are the imaginary skills. I will break these down into two categories as well.

1. Substitute skills that use a different skill.
2. Completely made up skills that have no effect on anything other than adding personality.

Examples of substitute skills would be fishing or berry picking which actually use a different skill to determine success.

Examples of completely made up skills would be origami. The art of folding paper into shapes. There is no representation of this in NWN but you can sit in camp while everyone is telling ghost stories and fold paper cranes and give them out. Since this doesn't effect anything and only adds personality there would be no problem.

Creating and using a made up skill for an actual advantage or to justify metagaming would result in much anguish and smiting. An example would be learning how to "read minds" and then using tells to metagame.

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

To push DM Richard's point home I'll say a little myself on the subject of 'imaginary skills'. I have been playing Darkharp as a practicing alchemist for a long time now, even though there are no NWN mechanics to back this up. The only thing I can do is stretch the truth abit and do things like collect alchemist fire, and thunderstones, and 'pretend' that Darkharp has actually made these items. I also carry around a box filled with poison, mushrooms, various mundane and magical herbs available from around the server. I think it would be great if there was an alchemists apparatus that made the alchemy items, similarly to the one that makes potions; but there isn't. This doesn't mean you can't have fun with the concept though. I decided to find a niche for myself when I created the character, at first that niche was that I would be a different sort of bard, who sang only songs about death and loss. In the end I decided that since I was in fact a bard, I would branch out into other areas of dark and obscure lore such as alchemy and toxicology. Eventually I picked up the 'craft wand' feat, and have also done as Rich said with it. I don't simply create my wands in a few seconds. I have a whole thread in my guild section called 'Darkharp's Wand Research', where I post my personal IC wand making methods. These are all things I've just made up for my own enjoyment and character depth, I'll include one below just to give an idea of how to roleplay a skill.

[The Retired DM ARIES]

and you never know where something like this may lead.

My original character was a ranger. He made it his thing to travel every inch of every map on the server, and I RP'd him drawing maps all the time.

His cabin was FULL of maps, and drawings of Cormyr that he did while out wandering.


Then, one day, an item appears IG available in some shops. A set of maps, that function IG to reveal terrain to the user. With my characters name stamped on the bottom as being one responsible for charting some of the regions.

And so his legacy kinda lives on, and its cool. There are other things like this around, and who knows what your obscure hobby may turn into!

[Charon's Claw]

RPing trapmaking is always fun! Things could even explode! ;D

[ShadowCatJen]

These are questions that one can ask about their own character that may help give some depth outside the realm of combat or class.

Is my character a morning person, a night owl, or sleeps/rests normally for their race?

If they are a morning person then they may also be the sort that likes to get things done first thing in the morning. This could be true of someone who grew up on a farm and needed to get all the chores done during the daylight hours. If they are an elf then they don't sleep, but go into Reverie. What time of day do they prefer to do that? Mid-day when the sun is high? That could mean they are a night owl and like to live under the light of the stars.

Personal Examples:
Mynian is not a morning person. Some days it's almost a miracle to see her up before noon. If she doesn't sleep in, then she's really not quite awake until she's had a sweet drink like cocoa or "bean brew" laced with honey and milk.

Marichelle is blind and ill so she will sleep when she is tired. This sometimes means waking at odd hours and sometimes losing track of time when she is indoors.

If my character had one precious item that he/she would be very sad to lose, what would it be and why?

Precious or personal items can lead to a deeper character history or aspect that one didn't think of before with their character. Such a small thing can lead to a whole story and a deeper understanding of your own character.

Personal Example:
Mynian has an overly large gold coin with the symbol of Tymora on one side and Waukeen on the other. It was given to her by the man that helped raise her -- her now departed Uncle -- and has brought her both luck and fortune in her life. When she is uncertain of what path to take or uncertain of a decision to make she will flip the coin to aid her in the choice.

Marichelle lost any material possessions she had a very long time ago. The only item she would be distraught losing would be her walking staff as it aids her where ever she goes, but it isn't something she can't replace.

What sort of food does my character prefer? What sorts do they hate?

This can tell a lot about a character. Do they prefer meats and hearty food like potatoes? Do they have a healthy appetite or do they nit pic about what they eat? Do they like sweets or spices? Will they eat anything as long as it doesn't try to eat them? Food can easily lead one to a root of personality. If they grew up far inland in the woods then they may never have had salt water sea food before. In the northern colder climates they have less in the way of fruits available so they may never have had a banana or plum pie. Or they grew up on a poor farm and had every variety of oat that if they see another bowl of oatmeal it will be too soon.

Personal Examples:
Mynian eats like a bird. She doesn't eat much and her friends sometimes have to stand there to make sure she does eat. She prefers sweet and light things. This was all due to practically starving to death on the streets in her youth. When she came around to living under better conditions she still ate in small portions because it was what she was used to. Her stomach grew small and as a result is still small to this day.

Marichelle has a condition where she sometimes is unaware that her body needs food. She carries a small pouch with berries to eat from when she reminds herself to. Because of damage she had done to her throat, she only eats full meals that consist of softer foods like soup, stew, or bread dipped in broth. Anything rough and she ends up with a nasty coughing fit as her throat reacts.

[brian333]

Reading the last few posts, especially the parts about learning new skills, prompts me to tell about my own character's efforts:

Kasur was told to buy a warhorse. He never learned to ride because it's not a skill valued by dwarves.

I've been roleplaying his absolute failure to learn to ride horses, along with a growing dislike of equines in general.

Kasur is a dwarf. This means short, bandy legs with the majority of his weight above the hips. He lacks the length of leg to properly grip the barrel of a horse in maneuvers, he lacks the grace and flexibility to flow with the motions of the horse, or to rise up on the stirrups in a gallop. Because of all this, when his horse turns, Kasur keeps going straight.

Now a mule: a dwarf could make good use of a mule. And a wagon. No need to sit on a smelly, sweaty animal when you can sit on a nice comfortable bench with your feet in front of you where they are supposed to be!

[ShadowCatJen]

In regards to what Brian posted... that's another thing people can RP out. Characters figuring out what skills they aren't good at.

Having a perfect character where there is nothing they can't do or perform poorly at is... well.. to be blunt.. a bit boring. Having a character with faults can make them seem much richer. Especially when you figure if your character can admit to the fault or will stubbornly refuse to say they can't do it. Adds an element of humility or humor to a character.

[EDM Entori]

I think it would benefit many people to have a read.