Sit-Com FRC

[SlothfulCat]

This is food for thought... so please read all of it before anyoen becomes defensive.

Cormyr is a monarchy, granted a LG one.. but no where under LG does it say "spineless" "prideless" "permissible" "non-violent" "light-handed" "lawful stupid" or "unathoritive". Think about the sort of gods that are LG.. Tyr, Torm, Ilmater, Nobanion... none of these gods are exactly noted for looking the other way when blantant and not-so blantant wrong is being done.

As a monarchy, the people of the lands dont get to dictate what the rules are. ((They can try, usually its called rebellion.)) Only the monarch, and the royalcourt or seat of power gets to make the rules. As a LG monarchy, that means that the rules are generally very reasonable ones. I think that we can all agree, Cormyr's list of laws are pretty reasonable.

As players however, many seem to have a chronic problem with something as simple as "obey the police" being in with the laws that PCs are expected to follow. Or at least they do when it is a PC who has been approved by the staff, pre-existing PCs, and RP IG to be in the position to be called "police."

The catch here is, I've only seen this problem in reguards to PC "police" Characters. When it is a DM possessed NPC.. all I have ever observed is compliance. I want players to ask themselves here... "whats the difference?" before they get offended. You don't tell a policeofficer in RL to ****-off because he's black, hispanic, white, or anything else... why would you tell a "police" PC IG to do so just because tehy're a PC? Every PC Dragon, weither a Blade or a Lionar, excercises the same authority every NPC Blade, Militiamen etc weilds.

Here is the ironic part of the situation to me, the PC "Dragons" aren't out to be the police. I am sure I can speak for everyone in the PDs when I say none of us enjoy being in the "police" role. Its something we have to do now and then to stay IC, but its not something any of us ((and I include myself here)) really go out of our way to do. Why? Because its not fun and 9 out of 10 times, we enjoy it even less then those who are on the recieving end of it. We all have things we'd rather do... trust me.

Now, noting that the PD PC players arent out to police you ((again, my belief and one I think we all share)) and dont enjoy playing police... why is it that PC PDs are the one's forced into the corner of either backing down ((which is taken and ran with as the Crown being weak, so we can't ICly do that)) or exerting that "policing" power of it being illegal not to follow a PD's order? Why aren't NPC PDs put into that position as well?


End food for thought.. and I have to just toss this in here as a short vent:

I find myself not logging in at times because I dont want to have to make a choice to be penalized IC for not not following orders... or to be penalized OOC by having people waste my time, when Aria does follow her orders. After all, when she's suppose to do something as simple as ask a few questions or the like.. its not worth /my/ play-time to have to go through a 2 hour ordeal to ask 3 questions... for all I have no choice but to break character or go ahead and go through the ordeal.

Just tossing this out there... I mean, yeah I /know/ it was my choice to play a not-so-nice PC, but how IC is it to constantly disobey authority figures right infront of them when you wouldnt do it to an authority figure in RL? After all, arent we on a roleplay server? Wouldn't the role of anyoen who chronically did this be permnant jail-bird, particuarly in a monarchy? And this behavior isn't even limited to Aria with whom it seems to be a server joke to do it to, but to other PCs such as Sharita as well.

[moulinous]

I can tell you a few times that Guldar has mouthed off to whatever dm controlled pansy war wizard they possessed as well as all them purple bucketheads. Compliance aint in many of the pcs vocabs so good point on some. It sounds to me though you need a break from Aria and having her go for a walk to Waterdeep for a bit and you playing a new pc would help and smooth some of the rough shod stuff over. Jsut a quicky suggestion and one that can be easily ignored... ;D

[SlothfulCat]

For the record: in this it is solely the players, not the DMs who have prompted this. Otherwise I'd be banging on Justicar and Richard's PM boxes.

[Toreavamp]

I doubt this has anything to do specifically with me or the way I play Aren. I'd just like to use Aren as exemple for this. But first I have a wondering.

If you do not want to play the police what is the exact reason that you join up in the PD ? It is completely understandable to not want to play the police role 24/7, don't get me wrong.

Aren generally views every person individually, even necromancers though a lot less than other types.
- For a PD, like Aria, who Aren sincerely hates, she will act up.
- For a PD, like Kelric, who Aren loves, she'd probaly allow him to arrest her even if she'd done nothing wrong but because she'd have trust in that he did what he had to do.
- For a PD that she has had no interaction with and who she doesn't think has a reason to try and make her life as annoying as possible, be that PC or NPC, she'd be likely to do as told, in most cases unless it's something really absurd then she might try and get out of.

I hope that was a little bit useful.

Love
Hanne

[malanthyus]

In my pitiful defense, I would say that my character has been an equal opportunity pain in the but. Equally insulting to persons of authority, and the those possesing the ability to negligently slice her in half.
I'd like to point out that the upside to being a pd type pc is that you -do- have authority that comes with the responcibilities as well. Don't be afraid to exercise it.

[Thrym]

Well, I still can't play, but I thought I'd add my two cent:

SlothfulCat brings up some good points. I also realized many people seem to respect DM controlled NPCs a lot more then PCs doing exactly the same.

Now, I think it depends a bit on your alignment. Most lawful chars should obey the authority (I say most as you might very well be lawful towards some organization that opposes the local authority), if not even offer to assist them if some punk's giving them trouble.

Nonlawful PCs... well, depends more on the specific person I guess. But, and that's a BIG but, no matter how chaotic you are, you might still very well obey the PDKs IC. Think of it in a real word example: Someone who's all 'Anarchy!' and thinks the government sucks would probably still think twice about pissing off the cops standing in front of him, and that is in a time/place you have quite a lot more rights then in a monarchy like Cormyr.

On the issue about not treating PC and NPC PDKs alike, well... I think it has a lot to do with metagaming. Of course there is the thing with knowing it's no DM, but there are also things like knowing the PC OOC and knowing he won't do anything anyways.

Also, well... you can get to know a PC PDK both IC and OOC.

Think about it.

Some random policeman you meet on the street, you'll have respect of.

Now, if someone you know becomes a policeman, do you actually think your respect will change? I know I'd still think 'Bob's a great guy/a complete moron'. So, if you did not respect the person in question before, chances are you won't start it because someone gave them a uniform (unless you're really, really lawful to the extreme, I guess).

Over time though, if you meet the 'random policeman' more often, you will also gain/loose respect of him. Now granted, in RL you would probably still not insult him, but ... well, you're no adventurer who can kill dragon's with pointy sticks or drop mountains on people.

I think the main point is simply that with PC PDKs, over time you form an opinion about them, while NPCs are just... there once, and disobeying them is a serious risk for the lippy PC.

Now all of this might have changed while I was gone, and maybe people today really simply disobey player PDKs because they're PCs. In that case... well, not much one can do. Well, unless it are lawful PCs. Then you could give the PDKs some OOC item that allows them to hand out chaotic points. Once they are smacked with a little alignment shift, even if it's just 1 or 2 points, they might think twice about treating the PC PDK not like every other PDK.

[ancientempathy]

shazzar said:

Now all of this might have changed while I was gone, and maybe people today really simply disobey player PDKs because they're PCs. In that case... well, not much one can do. Well, unless it are lawful PCs. Then you could give the PDKs some OOC item that allows them to hand out chaotic points. Once they are smacked with a little alignment shift, even if it's just 1 or 2 points, they might think twice about treating the PC PDK not like every other PDK.

Ooo. Would be a big responsibility, but that is interesting, this alignment shift idea. Or at least, any lawful PC being jailed I would think have some sort of alignment shift anyway a bit? Depending on what they did. I wouldn't know yet as it's never happened to a character of mine, and I've never spoken with anyone about in in terms of OOC detail.

Pertaining to obeying the law; regardless if you're chaotic or not, as said numerous times - it is a monarchy. You risk your life being by snappy and negligent. Besides, it'll add to the RP anyway and after all, if you're just being asked to be questioned, no biggie right? Unless you have a secret hidden agenda that would threaten the monarch

I was surprised that the Lady Sharita's name was mentioned, so I had to add my own thoughts in. I like to point out - good luck resisting a paladin in authority, or pampering them in some manner. They will hunt you down, and maybe even get any other brethren of theirs to help them out too, if a person doesn't comply. Paladins aren't ones to take too kindly to those who disobey orders or won't follow the law of their good King. Now granted, I would suspect a paladin would try to approach the situation with a calm and clear mind, while trying to persuade the person to come with them to be questioned first, hmm?

Wouldn't want one of those zealot paladins after you lol

[kaltorac]

Since Aria is "percieved" by at least one of my PC's as a flagrant abuser of the laws she is charged to uphold, I can't imagine why you seem taken aback by what happened.

[TermaForever]

There is such a thing as legitimate cause for giving authority the finger. I think the point SlothfulCat is trying to make is not so much not respecting authority (The level 20 CE Wizard of Death eats authority for breakfast its what they do.) so much as people playing differently when the cop is a DM. I mean taking the 'opinion' and 'perception' stance on the matter only takes you so far.

And lets face it, as someone who has interacted with Aria ALOT I can guess who some of the people Slothful has in mind are and I will be bold and go out on a limb and say it does indeed boil down to a couple of things.

1) DM's can kill you with a click and take away levels. PCs can't (usually...)

2) DM's can ban you. PC's can't.

3) If a DM is showing its face, a lot of people say "oh! Opportunity for toys! Time to refine my act." I think everyone is guilty of this to some small degree...kind of human nature when authority is around.

And lets not forget the thing a lot of problems here stem from. Death. Death doesn't mean much on FRC...not to a person who is level 20 and can solo a dragon at least. In real life you don't make the authority figure mad because he can kill you. And you can't respawn unfortunately (unless of course you believe in reincarnation. I'm not here to preach but honestly I hate those belief systems simply because if I were to die tomorrow I would probably come back as a chicken enchilada.)

See lethal force here just isn't a meaningful threat UNLESS its coming from a DM because as I said they can do mean things to you.

So...in a long winded version...yeah its a metagaming thing. Please stop. I mean seriously if the word 'Lawful' or 'Neutral' is the first word in your alignment then 79% of the time you should be respecting the guy throwing the book at you. If you're chaotic well....bets are off.

[kaltorac]

I'll be more blunt. My PC Beloril was accosted while in disguise by Aria. The only reason she stopped him and questioned him was due to the fact he carried a shield of Malar. Malar is an accepted god in Cormyr not just Faeruin as a whole. He has a legitimate public temple within the capital where he was stopped by her. The Laws of Cormyr have stated in the past that pesecution based soley on religion is a punishable offense. Had she stopped him as a "stranger" and asked he unhood, or followed discreatly to gauge his intentions there would have been no conflict. It is because she singaled him out for his percieved "legal" faith that it has escalated. Her line of questioning was stristly about his faith and at least in Beloril's mind ... regardless of her rank, she was once again overstepping her bounds.

[ancientempathy]

kaltorac said:

I'll be more blunt. My PC Beloril was accosted while in disguise by Aria. The only reason she stopped him and questioned him was due to the fact he carried a shield of Malar. Malar is an accepted god in Cormyr not just Faeruin as a whole. He has a legitimate public temple within the capital where he was stopped by her. The Laws of Cormyr have stated in the past that pesecution based soley on religion is a punishable offense. Had she stopped him as a "stranger" and asked he unhood, or followed discreatly to gauge his intentions there would have been no conflict. It is because she singaled him out for his percieved "legal" faith that it has escalated. Her line of questioning was stristly about his faith and at least in Beloril's mind ... regardless of her rank, she was once again overstepping her bounds.

Worship of the Furies isnt allowed, though followers of them are not harrassed as long as their worship doesnt break the laws. Devote servitude is frowned upon, hence no temples. There is a difference between a shrine and a temple. And yes, temples have shrines within them, but a temple's presence indicates -that- particular deities major influence in the area, where as a shrine is just some 'humble' little go-to place really for a particular faith so their followers can seek some 'spiritual comfort' - in whichever means they need. That's how I like to explain it at least =)

Just trying to provide some clarity there. As per Aria herself, that's something I think should be discussed with a DM from here on out before this turns the riverboat in the open forums.

I will digress though again, - it is a monarch. Even if the figure in authority is stepping their bounds, its normally best to comply, as there may be other figures who are more lenient.

[TermaForever]

Also remember in a realistic monarchy there is no 'questioning' its arrest and execution. Be glad you at least get the chance for fast talking your way out.

[kaltorac]

Cormyr is a lawful based kingdom according to all the sources. If the laws only apply to the citizens and not the enforcers then in my opinion Cormyr is a simple tyranny no better than that of Zhentil Keep.

[ancientempathy]

kaltorac said:

Cormyr is a lawful based kingdom according to all the sources. If the laws only apply to the citizens and not the enforcers then in my opinion Cormyr is a simple tyranny no better than that of Zhentil Keep.

The law applies to the enforcers too of course.

Here though;

The Law of Cormyr - Second Plaint: Crimes agaisnt the Kingdom.

Willful disobedience of a directive of a Royal Guardian, Steward, or Military; Imprisonment (Military Compound, up to 2 days), and then a Fine.

And I believe the War Wizards are apart of the military..?

So if you were being directed in some manner and didn't follow accordingly, then like Arak said, the character is lucky to have gotten away.

[kaltorac]

Not when the command is UnLawful ... but that's just my PC's perception of it also.

[HeatherRae]

kaltorac said:

I'll be more blunt. My PC Beloril was accosted while in disguise by Aria. The only reason she stopped him and questioned him was due to the fact he carried a shield of Malar. Malar is an accepted god in Cormyr not just Faeruin as a whole. He has a legitimate public temple within the capital where he was stopped by her. The Laws of Cormyr have stated in the past that pesecution based soley on religion is a punishable offense. Had she stopped him as a "stranger" and asked he unhood, or followed discreatly to gauge his intentions there would have been no conflict. It is because she singaled him out for his percieved "legal" faith that it has escalated. Her line of questioning was stristly about his faith and at least in Beloril's mind ... regardless of her rank, she was once again overstepping her bounds.

I'm probably biased, but I don't think questioning about someone's faith is "persecution."

Persecution is someone being imprisoned simply because of a belief. Persecution is being beaten within an inch of your life because you won't give up your faith. Persecution is losing your job, your home, your livelihood because you are part of a faith the government dislikes. Persecution is having your children denied entry into schools. Persecution is you being taken from your home, beaten, tried and convicted in a puppet trial, and then sentenced to a gulag.

Millions of people all over the world today are being persecuted like this. Millions more are literally dying from that persecution.

What happened to Bel - who, if I recall, was trying to deliberately provoke Aria - was not persecution, in my opinion.

Maybe it was unfair. But it wasn't persecution. The only reason why she attempted to harm Bel was because he didn't obey her order, which, in Cormyr, near as I can tell, she has a right to give. You don't have to like it - and you can complain that she stepped over the line when she gave the order. What you don't have the right to do, however, is disobey her order within the borders of the Kingdom of Cormyr.

Just my $0.02.

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

Hmm...well, comparing this to real life probably isn't going to get us far since it is a fantasy RPG. But Kal is right, theres a Malar shrine in Suzail where this took place. You don't see anyone with a Tyr, Torm, Tymora, LLira, or Red Knights symbol bieng stopped and questioned about their religion.

Bottom line is Aria has made so many enemies over the time she has been on the server that she can expect a negative reaction from 90% of the people she attempts to police. As she said, it was her choice to play a not so nice PC. I am just playing one character right now, and the only way he cooperates with Aria is if he is threatened with arrest if he doesn't. Real or imagined her crimes against the adventurers of Cormyr have earned her a very bad name among even most of the good aligned players.

EDIT: This is not a flaming attempt at Aria, she sticks to her character and I respect that; but that being said her character has a reputation on equal grounds with some of the worste PC and NPC villians alive on the server today.

[ShadowCatJen]

I'm going to set aside all the IC/Lawful/Chaotic argument of this subject and address what seems to be the most negative aspect of what you're getting at Slothfulcat.

You are not having fun with that aspect of being part of the PDK to the point of not wanting to play your character. This is not good.

I would like to bring something to everyone's attention specifically about the PDK. When it was originally started as a guild, it's intent was not to become a PC police force. The PDK guild was basically supposed to be like Delta Force. A core unit of Purple Dragon Knights and War Wizards that would go anywhere the Crown needed them to or go to where the trouble was. They had no specific area they were stationed in, nor did they have "jurisdiction" over any area.

They were called "The Monster Hunters" for that very reason. Go to where the monsters or threat to Cormyr was and deal with it. They were not originally meant to be a police force to where they get burdened with the responsibility of having to basically see to a jay walker. That's what the NPC guards are for.

Somewhere along the way, though, that got very much lost. Suddenly the PDK guild was no longer a guild and simply an extension of the DM function of guards arresting or fining PCs for breaking the law.

It's my opinion that the PDK guild should have never gotten the function to be able to (and thus are suddenly obligated to) jail and fine other PCs. It is not a fun function for players to have to deal with and typically ends up leading to one grievance issue or another between players. If the PDK could be reverted back to the way they were supposed to be then that will free up those PCs to see to more adventuresome pursuits.

For IC argument sake you can easily have it that the Crown dictates that those in the "Monster Hunters" unit are not obligated to seeing to the daily ins and outs of guard duty seeing that they are busy with the greater safety of the Kingdom as a whole.

And... that is my two cents on the matter. There are other things I could add that pertain to it, but I'd rather not ramble.

[ancientempathy]

I really like what ShadowCat said. Although I wasn't around for the 'old days', it would be nice to see the PDKs revert back to what Shadow described. Being a police is/would be hard and fun even to an extent, but my paladin would enjoy and be content with just smitting evil monsters! hehe

[kaltorac]

feanorre said:

Hmm...well, comparing this to real life probably isn't going to get us far since it is a fantasy RPG. But Kal is right, theres a Malar shrine in Suzail where this took place. You don't see anyone with a Tyr, Torm, Tymora, LLira, or Red Knights symbol bieng stopped and questioned about their religion.

Bottom line is Aria has made so many enemies over the time she has been on the server that she can expect a negative reaction from 90% of the people she attempts to police. As she said, it was her choice to play a not so nice PC. I am just playing one character right now, and the only way he cooperates with Aria is if he is threatened with arrest if he doesn't. Real or imagined her crimes against the adventurers of Cormyr have earned her a very bad name among even most of the good aligned players.

EDIT: This is not a flaming attempt at Aria, she sticks to her character and I respect that; but that being said her character has a reputation on equal grounds with some of the worste PC and NPC villians alive on the server today.

Can't agree more Darky.

Yes, what occured that night was a "Set Up". Beloril knew he'd likely cause a reaction from Aria when he entered the inn in that disguise. This is just one in a long series of events between him and Aria though. He expects that Paldadins and PDK's be held to the highest of standards. When he "percieves" that they aren't, he has always gone out of his way to teach them a lesson. Sorry you fell for the bait, but it was your choice to do so. Aria is not the only PDK or WarWizard he's done this too. Beloril has nearly talked poor Kelric to death over her and others in the past. He's also had a run in with a certain Paladin of Nabanion in regards to his IC actions and comments. Aria wouldn't be Aria if she'd failed to fall for his trap. Nor would Bel be Bel if he'd passed up such an easy attempt to trap her publicly. I'd no sooner expect different from Aria than I would expect 'not' to be fireballed by Fisten or chased across the tun by Guldar and Helgrin seeking my toes for singing their beards. Bel and Aria have had more than one prolonged chat IC regarding his views .... nothing occured the other night that deviates from our past encounters and as He's always told Aria "were you not a PDK or WarWizard there would be no issue".

[ancientempathy]

kaltorac said:

feanorre said:

Hmm...well, comparing this to real life probably isn't going to get us far since it is a fantasy RPG. But Kal is right, theres a Malar shrine in Suzail where this took place. You don't see anyone with a Tyr, Torm, Tymora, LLira, or Red Knights symbol bieng stopped and questioned about their religion.

Bottom line is Aria has made so many enemies over the time she has been on the server that she can expect a negative reaction from 90% of the people she attempts to police. As she said, it was her choice to play a not so nice PC. I am just playing one character right now, and the only way he cooperates with Aria is if he is threatened with arrest if he doesn't. Real or imagined her crimes against the adventurers of Cormyr have earned her a very bad name among even most of the good aligned players.

EDIT: This is not a flaming attempt at Aria, she sticks to her character and I respect that; but that being said her character has a reputation on equal grounds with some of the worste PC and NPC villians alive on the server today.

Can't agree more Darky.

Yes, what occured that night was a "Set Up". Beloril knew he'd likely cause a reaction from Aria when he entered the inn in that disguise. This is just one in a long series of events between him and Aria though. He expects that Paldadins and PDK's be held to the highest of standards. When he "percieves" that they aren't, he has always gone out of his way to teach them a lesson. Sorry you fell for the bait, but it was your choice to do so. Aria is not the only PDK or WarWizard he's done this too. Beloril has nearly talked poor Kelric to death over her and others in the past. He's also had a run in with a certain Paladin of Nabanion in regards to his IC actions and comments. Aria wouldn't be Aria if she'd failed to fall for his trap. Nor would Bel be Bel if he'd passed up such an easy attempt to trap her publicly. I'd no sooner expect different from Aria than I would expect 'not' to be fireballed by Fisten or chased across the tun by Guldar and Helgrin seeking my toes for singing their beards. Bel and Aria have had more than one prolonged chat IC regarding his views .... nothing occured the other night that deviates from our past encounters and as He's always told Aria "were you not a PDK or WarWizard there would be no issue".

Beloril tested any paladins of Torm as of late? ;P hehe

[kaltorac]

*coughs* uhm .... remember the elf with the bow that followed Randall and his buddy a few nights back? Did he not admit he'd done so from near the courthouse in Suzail until the point he showed himself? ...... In short, yes. And OOCly ..... wasn't the first time .... nor likely the last.

[ManyAsOne]

Malar worship is not against the law, nor is the worship of the Furies. You have to remember, Faerun is a polytheistic world. People may have one patron, but they still frequently pay tribute to others, depending on the situation. A captain might offer a tithe at a shrine of Umberlee for safe travel in the sea. A cleric of Velsharoon might still utter a 'thank Tymora' as a bolder crashes into the ground just a few feet away from him from the cliff above. An army out to war might receive blessings from clerics of Tempus, Red Knight, and Garagos. Someone traveling a dangerous road might offer a prayer to Shaundakul, and if a storm begins to brew, kick one up for Talos as well. A follower of Tiamat might still give a prayer to Waukeen for good trade.

There are, of course, a few exceptions. The Banites aren't loved to much in Cormyr because the active PC Banites have made themselves enemies of the Crown. The last High Priest of Cyric went on a slaughtering spree a few years back and now Cyricists are enemies of the Crown (whereas before, Azoun himself had struck a deal with them in the Cormyr novelS).

Polytheism. *nodnod.*

[ancientempathy]

kaltorac said:

*coughs* uhm .... remember the elf with the bow that followed Randall and his buddy a few nights back? Did he not admit he'd done so from near the courthouse in Suzail until the point he showed himself? ...... In short, yes. And OOCly ..... wasn't the first time .... nor likely the last.

Yes I rememebr that. And here I thought I was going to undergo some trial or test specifically that was a mental challenge =p *Tease*

[Nevajas]

kaltorac said:

Beloril knew he'd likely cause a reaction from Aria when he entered the inn in that disguise. This is just one in a long series of events between him and Aria though. He expects that Paldadins and PDK's be held to the highest of standards. When he "percieves" that they aren't, he has always gone out of his way to teach them a lesson.

I would like to point out that when you say it this way, Bel sounds as self-righteous and self-entitled as the people he's trying to teach a lesson to. And as someone who's character was there for the specific incident, it could hardly be called persecution. Yes, Malar has a legal temple in Suzail. But Aria tried to question Bel about potential illegal activities in other cities. Bel, in turn, was belligerent and uncooperative. That's when she declared him under arrest, which he promptly resisted.

Had Belori played the role of a Malarite who was cooperative and went along with questioning but was still arrested, or if Aria had decided to use lethal force once he resisted arrest, she would have been the who escalated the situation. Instead he chose to resist in every way possible and the only thing he taught is that she should lock someone in a cell before she tries questioning them.

EDIT: I'm not trying to say that Aria isn't heavy-handed at times. What I'm saying is that, by my perspective IC and OOC, Belori's "trap" and guised persona's behavior gave Aria every right to react the way she did in that incident.

[kaltorac]

nevajas said:

kaltorac said:

Beloril knew he'd likely cause a reaction from Aria when he entered the inn in that disguise. This is just one in a long series of events between him and Aria though. He expects that Paldadins and PDK's be held to the highest of standards. When he "percieves" that they aren't, he has always gone out of his way to teach them a lesson.

I would like to point out that when you say it this way, Bel sounds as self-righteous and self-entitled as the people he's trying to teach a lesson to. And as someone who's character was there for the specific incident, it could hardly be called persecution. Yes, Malar has a legal temple in Suzail. But Aria tried to question Bel about potential illegal activities in other cities. Bel, in turn, was belligerent and uncooperative. That's when she declared him under arrest, which he promptly resisted.

Had Belori played the role of a Malarite who was cooperative and went along with questioning but was still arrested, or if Aria had decided to use lethal force once he resisted arrest, she would have been the who escalated the situation. Instead he chose to resist in every way possible and the only thing he taught is that she should lock someone in a cell before she tries questioning them.

I have to disagree. well, of course I would. If she desired this information so baddly then she could have made a point IC to do so at the shrine in town. Has she ever waited around to see who might enter it and question them? Has she ever RP'd questioning those in Dhedluk? And I'll stand by my PC's decision that to be held merely on account of his percieved faith is unlawful, or did we also toss out the Western Accord and just haven't put it in writing anywhere yet?

[ancientempathy]

I have to disagree. well, of course I would. If she desired this information so baddly then she could have made a point IC to do so at the shrine in town. Has she ever waited around to see who might enter it and question them? Has she ever RP'd questioning those in Dhedluk? And I'll stand by my PC's decision that to be held merely on account of his percieved faith is unlawful, or did we also toss out the Western Accord and just haven't put it in writing anywhere yet?

Actually Bel, Aria did RP some Malarite stuff with Randal last night in Dhedluk.. lol

[kaltorac]

*coughs* After the fact LOL. But good to see the RP is being followed up that way as Bel's actions would give her suspicion as to their intent now.

And in response to Nevajas ..... there's no shortage of PC's that would agree with you that Beloril is "self righteous" nor would I disagree.

Bel and Aria aren't ever fire and ice together, they've always been more like fire and gasoline.

While many PC's might disagree with his actions that night, I seriously doubt any that knew him well would be suprised either.

[TermaForever]

I just got done reading the posts since my last post. Of all of them I think one (SCJen's) addressed the actual point being brought up. Thank you all for making me sick to my stomach. I find it interesting how you all just prefer to bash one player rather than stop and say "hmm, you know, maybe there is a problem with PC's being forced to police people and people being butts all the time."

Anyway I will say that I do agree Jen's post even if I too wasn't around to see the old days. Its not up to the PC to handle day to day law enforcement. That isn't the point of the character, and if that is what is expected I can see why it wouldn't be fun at all.

[SlothfulCat]

This is getting off topic.... to address it all though...

Kalbraen... you did beloril to a T. This is also why I typically avoid you, no matter which way my PC twitches she can do no right, which means /I/ get the joy of knowing IC: she has every right just to toss you in a cell for wasting her time.. but OOC: I'm not exactly quick to do that to most players. No real problem with that.. its your choice just like aria being a "hardass" to those she percieves as doing wrong is my choice.
As was pointed out though, Aria stopped you. Asked to ask some questions about the High Hunt in delduk... in a polite manner. She was met with cursing and verbal attacks. Randal came to aria days ago, asking about the High Hunt. She's talked to everyone in Delduk (done the quest even) and was seeking to question more, since obviously the malarites must have some backup-layer for them to return to the known one to raise their dead... ((this is how aria thinks)). So hence... she was in the Wailing Wheel to do what she does... watch the adventurering populace for prospects.. wait for squires to wander in.. etc. In general be there to keep order if need be. A malarite walks in.. opportunity. ((For the record, I can count the times on 1 hand that aria has even come close to abusing her authority.)) ((on an ooc note, I avoided asking you to put down your hood because I didnt want to infringe on Beloril being disguised; given the issues recently... I didn't feel the need to possibly cause the DMs more headache about meta complaints))

However, it wasnt you that prompted this. It was nothing last night that prompted this. Its been my observation for /months/ since before Aria ever became an Apprentice War Wizard let alone an active member of the guild.


ShadowCat truely hit it on the head though. /I/ wanted to join the monsters hunters so that aria could be in on the goodguys doing good. On the missions... and because of the PCs who were involved at the time. If I wanted to police, I'd not have left a DM seat to start playing here after a few days. Now... I will say that its better for the PD PCs to be able to respond on the "police" level, simply because it helps immersion, and it makes way too much sense for them to do. I will say the issue gets pushed to that point to much... ((Think of us more as detectives in a police department than cops walking the beat... we're going to ignore speeders 9 times out of 10 unless youre doing something that endangers others)).

As for aria herself.. I know the issue... I'll say again, that like others pointed out.. if you think a cop is the biggest prick alive, that doesnt mean you drive off and think you should be able to get away with it after he's pulled you over.

My real point here was this... the PD PCs /are/ suppose to be out doing adventurerous things, working at our little missions we get tossed now and then by PDs... working at being better at fighting those monsters... and in general being on the lookout for any "unordinary problems". We get strapped into playing police when in the course of doing our normal thing, most often over what seems something pointless to me... refusing to answer what is usually harmless questions etc... and that this isnt a treatment NPC PDs get.

That said.. I guess what I'm asking the player base to consider.. .is acting as though every PD PC encounter is like an encounter with an NPC PD. Give us as players the benefit of the doubt. And remember, the PC PDs have as much backing as any NPC PD... and thats the entire authority and power of the Crown of Cormyr, any loyal noblemen and their retainers, the War Wizards ont eh whole, and so on...
Beyond that.. the PD PCs /are/ elite "warriors"; I dont know about you but if I was going to gamble my chances.. I'd do it to a draftee and not a green beret.

As for any complaints etc placed on Aria... I really dont care. I laugh usually when I read them. As I said.. I choose to have her be not the nicest person otu there... ((for all she is usually as nice as anyone else until you give her reason not to be))... and I choose to have her be one of a few PCs that holds people accountable for what they choose to be/do/etc... and I /choose/ for her to be willing to let things go.. and I /choose/ every time she looks the other way because she feels compassionate about that child stealing food, or understands the sitaution of that fellow who truely didnt know better.

Honestly; I said at the get-go this was food for thought. If it was a player attack on another I'd have gone to a DM... I've done it in the past and will do it again when I feel I need to. If It was an issue with the DMs... I'd go to the DMs or to the Admin. If it was an issue with the admin... hells... I'm on the wrong server at that point... and its time for me to go.

This was about an issue I noticed blanketed across the majority of PCs... and I felt I should toss it out there; and I'd much rather it get back to /that/ than degrade into a trade off of explainatiosn about individual PCs. /I/ have no desire for this to be labled a "troll" thread; It isnt suppose to be one. And I /really/ dont want to see a flame war errupt over this.

This is an RP Discussion/Suggestion... I can only relate it to how I've observed it on the server.. and my observation has been mostly limited to Aria's interactions... and to a few under alts.. which fell into the same manner... and hence I felt it was time to finally say something about it. So while certain interactions recently may have catalyzed me going ahead and posting it now.. ((the last time I'd decided to do it the DMs had been pushed to taking the server offline... and I felt it tactless to do so at the time))... its not those interactions that have the been the real root to this. I'll say that our dearly departed Morthasil prompted /alot/ of what I was trying to express.... and others like him.