He's Bleeding!

[brian333]

A quote from another post:

... winces when he sees people bleeding profusely (injured or worse) and acting normal...

I never realized this was an issue with anyone until I read the quoted line, and certainly didn't intend to make anyone cringe.
I'm guilty of this, and there is a reason. Actually, two reasons, one RP related, the other Game Mechanics related.

RP:
Kasur is a dwarf. Pride and stubbornness are hallmarks of his race. To admit weakness in public would shame him. Kasur could be at 1 hp and tell you, "It's just a flesh wound, come back here and I'll bite your ankles!" Even if he feels the pain, like the Sioux warriors of a century and a half ago, he won't let anyone see it.

Game Mechanics:
I've been playing D&D since the late '70's, and a lot of information packed into the small typeset AD&D books got left out in later versions, but on pg. 82 of the first edition DMG it's clearly stated that hit points are more than just the physical capacity to absorb wounds.

It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his or her class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to sustain physical damage takes place. It is preposterous to state such an assumption, for if we are to assume that a man is killed by a sword thrust which does four hit points of damage, we must similarly assume that a hero could, on the average, withstand five such thrusts before being slain.

It then goes on to describe in greater detail what makes this so in game terms, but basically, HP loss is more than physical wounds.

In the course of a fight a person may otherwise be unhurt, but his loss of HP could represent his fatigue at blocking the blows of his foes, his growing fear of powerful enemies, his guardian angel's loss of patience with his recklessness, or any of a host of other magical or spiritual explanations.

Certainly some HP represent physical ability to withstand punishment, (you do get a CON bonus after all,) but the vast majority of HP are dependent on your character's ability to actively defend himself.

This is why coup-de-grace attacks work, by the way! An unconscious or immobilized character can't dodge, deflect, or turn his vulnerable spots away from the attack, so a single dagger slice can kill an immobilized level 20 character with 300 hp.

When Kasur walks into Isinhold with half his hp missing, he's not bleeding. Give me a chance to emote before just healing Kasur and you'll discover he's very meticulous about bandaging himself. Chances are he's just exhausted, sweaty, and covered with the blood of his foes when you see Kasur "Injured."

Now that I've presented my view, I'd like to hear other opinions. If this really bothers anyone I'll stop doing it. If it is contrary to FRC policy on hp and wounding, I'll conform to the FRC ruling.

[Toreavamp]

I don't have much more to say than I agree. I usually ask if people are okay, leaving them a chance to moan about their wounds or just say that they took a bad beating and they feel sore, and thusly limps or walks slow.

Also it's possible that said character uses something to hide their wounds, be they bandaged or not. I have a character who during the fights wear a sorta skimpy outfit, but as soon as she's out of that fight and have seen to her wounds pulls on a heavy robe, as well does she carry a hood. It's always been a great mystery to me how people could tell she had wounds.

As Brian said, give people a chance to emote, the less than uninjuried can be something else than open wounds. I like to believe that when I run around with a character of 30+ in heal he has seen to and dressed up my wounds. It doesn't mean I couldn't have bandages or bruises around me though.

Love
Hanne

[catmage]

I'll just add to that, my character's change their clothes after adventuring. However, when I get to badly wounded amd intend to return to a public setting very soon, I cast Cure Light Wounds and Cure Minor Wounds, mainly because I know it bugs other people to see that little sign up more than it's an IC action of tending wounds. Ailren worships, among other gods, Tiamat, and in page 72 of Dragons of Faerun, it states as follows:

"Tiamatans lust to aquire items that increase their personaland spiritual power, including common magic items as well as powerful and rare artifacts. The church likes to keep a large store of items in it's temple tjat keeps it's members prepared for any occasion, but it disapproves of certain kinds of items. Tiamat teaches that people must take credit for their successes and understand their losses; thus. she frowns on the use of magical healing in all but the most drastic situations."

To Ailren, the idea of healing up with magic after finishing a task is insulting to Tiamat, and the idea of someone else healing him without permission, as many healer characters are apt to do, is as horrible to him as it would be if someone felt you up on the bus. As for others, unless they're at near death, I don't chime in IC because Ailren only takes a stranger's well being into account when they pose a threat or are amusing. But at near death, a person who's not at least taking the time to emote *Looks alot squisher than a human ought to be* or *Seems to have lost a fight with a food processor* is stretching the realm of plausibility.

All that said, it can be distracting to see people walking around at badly injured or below, simply because it makes people stop and look at a random person and break out of conversations to run and save the day. So, I heal up to injured, and if I can do it reasonably without too many heal kits, barely injured. It just makes for less of a hassle to drop the IC reasons and go OOC.

[wynter]

coup-de-grace attacks ;D love those babies

[Panros]

Yeah, I feel what Brian is saying. I make up the injuries as I go along. So, if it says Torgeir is badly wounded then it means he is badly wounded. It does not for the most part mean he's bleeding out his guts onto the grass.

wynter said:

coup-de-grace attacks ;D love those babies

That's not even the point of this thread, you lost your posting privileges with that one. Heh, heh.

[iangallowglas]

I agree with Brian on this and would like to add this:

How do I know that when you start casting a spell to heal me, you aren't really casting a powerword kill or dominate Person spell, especially when we just met out on the road. None of my characters have a lot of spell craft, so most of the time all I see is, "this person is casting unknown spell". I have a freind who's character will attack someone they don't know who starts casting a spell at them. I don't do that, but I think he has a valid point.

Just ask before you start healing.

[Wolf Munroe]

My esteem for my job has lessened. I'm posting from work.

I usually try to take into consideration that non-spellcasters don't have a lot of Spellcraft (some have none at all) and should be hostile to random characters casting spells on them. If I have an inclination to heal a stranger (it does happen on occasion), I will usually have Lydia introduce herself as a cleric of Lathander and ask permission to heal them. Depending on the character she will sometimes also state that healing them will involve touching them. (Cure spells are touch spells.)

Every time I see an injured character, I have to ask myself "Am I not playing my alignment if I don't try to help them, or am I metagaming their injured status if I do try to help them?" I'm not sure I reach the same conclusion every time.

[HeatherRae]

Wolf said:

Every time I see an injured character, I have to ask myself "Am I not playing my alignment if I don't try to help them, or am I metagaming their injured status if I do try to help them?" I'm not sure I reach the same conclusion every time.

That's the problem I run into. I don't want to upset players, and I certainly don't want to be rude or metagame, but when you have a certain level of the Heal skill, how can you ignore when someone is at Badly Wounded or Near Death? I feel torn in both directions - if I heal them, isn't that metagaming? But if I don't, am I not portraying my cleric correctly?

It's a conundrum.

[TermaForever]

Lets face it, the only thing my character Silus does is heal people (or beat Ranan on the head with a stick).

Because of that I too know the whole "To heal or not to heal. Whether it is..." argument and usually just say "You look a bit worse for wear, will you allow me to aid you." thing.

[trebarruna]

*grins* my character doesn't heal anyone, even those in her party, unless they beg/ask nicely for it.

Kits are expensive ya know... and she has to save coin for the Eyepatch man and his Blackjack card game... Curse the one who placed that npc in this game!!!

[canuckkane]

I would agree with one stipulation. There is no way anyone can tell me that when someones health is reading "near death" that they are 'just exhausted' that's a total crock, beyond that, sure, they can simply be exhausted, or badly beaten and exhausted, etc., but like I said, at 'near death' to me means you're still bleeding, maybe not enough to further injur you, but you're still bleeding and very seriously injured as well as exhausted and whatever else you'd like to emote.

[EDM Entori]

I find its the same with anyone that fights a mage, getting pummelled by a fireball, if it only does 30 out of 300 hp, you think that would hurt. So Generally Injured could mean scorched, charred. Heck Most of us, could quite possibly conceive that such a flash of fire would burn skin quite rapidly, which would also damage nerves etc.

The rule I've been following, since I met kasur, wait for an emote.. if non, then ask.

its an "if-then" script!

[pendragon1]

Its is quite surprising to see that one comment spark such discussion. I understand Brian and others points fully, but with some disagreements. Exhaustion and fatigue are not related to hit point lose according to the D&D 3.5 system, though he is correct in the analysis of gaining hit points as being related to a person's ability to deflect attacks. A wizard only gains a d4 per level because he does not train in combat defense, positioning, deflecting attacks, etc. In the same breath, a fighter gains a d10 because his whole training revolves around staying in the fight and overcoming. I think a barbarian gets a d12 because they force themselves to endure and keep going, but that is just opinion.

When a character is badly wounded or near death, strolling about the town in perfectly normal fashion seems like a poor example of metagaming. There are obvious signs of such injury. I understand that NWN allows us to use bandages on ourselves, unlike the actual 3.5 rules where heal cannot be done on oneself, but life threatening axe wounds, claw marks, flash burns, acid splashes, bolts and arrows protruding from ones body, hammer bashes, boulder smashes, and gnaw marks from dragons or ghouls all leave a person bloody, bruised, with broken bones, torn muscles, limp limbs, disfigured faces.

Even a minor wound of bruised ribs or a sprained ankle is obvious to attentive observer, so it seems unlikely that a person at badly wounded or near death can act as if they do not matter. Yes, a stubborn dwarf may wave off his broken arm as a flesh wound, but it does not change the fact that he can't hold up his shield. A spot check could easily be done to see such effects.

If someone is that injured, we should not be asked to assume that they have tended to their wounds. One casual look would say otherwise, and if you had had them tended, you would not be near death. Near death usually means you are relegated to bed rest, with injuries that may still kill you. A mosquito could bite you and send you to the Fugue. This is my perspective of injured, taken from the perspective of someone who has been injured and much worse numerous times.

[brian333]

I actually agree with Pendragon.

In my opinion, the lower end of the life bar is almost all physical while the upper end is almost all non-physical hp. So, a person at "Badly Wounded" or "Near Death" would be obviously physically damaged, a person "Injured" would limp, move stiffly, have obvious bandages on his obvious wounds, etc., while a person with lesser wounds may easily conceal them if he wishes, as a few scrapes and bruises are the most that would show to a person casually examining him.

Think of your typical football player after a game: he may be sore, have sprains and bruises, and be exhausted to the point where all he wants is a soak in the Jacuzzi and a good night's sleep. His HP are depleted, but is he bleeding all over the place?
How about the boxer after a bout? You can tell he's been through the ringer, but he stands up in front of the camera and acts like he's okay.

That's how I see it when I'm playing the half-injured character. I'm not saying, "Don't notice that he's wounded." Nor am I saying, "Don't react in character when you notice he's injured."

I just don't want players to actually be offended by my conduct, and if this is happening, I can change my ways to accommodate you. After all, I'm the new-guy here.