Transition Play (a.k.a. Transing)

[kenny26]

I didn't see any mention of this in the rulebooks, though I'm sure it's a well-known exploit.
Before posting this here I had Gallin review it to be sure I'm not breaking any rules.

I thought to write about it here to raise the level of awareness on the issue.

Disclaimer: Don't do the things detailed below. They're examples of how transing can be used as an exploit in-game.

Transition Play / Transing:

Whenever you use the transitions to give yourself an unfair, unexplainable advantage in combat, fleeing or persuit.

Examples follow, but there are many other unfair ways to use the transitions:

- Ducking persuit. If under persuit from other players, some transers enter another area through a transition, and wait until they think the other player(s) would be on the loading screen, and then emmidiately click on the transition to go back before the follower(s) have fully loaded the new area. Not only is this cheap, but also utterly pointless to try and find IC excuses for doing.

- Fighting near transitions. Some players (particularly those with sneak attacks) could become tempted to lurk by a transition and use it to appear out of nowhere on the other side and emmidiately sneak attack an unsuspecting target. Again this is unfair, and the attacker doesn't even need to by stealthed to do this.
Simularly, he could jump into the next area if under persuit, and then turn to fight his persuer before he is fully loaded in the next area.

- Using a transition as a convenient escape while stealthed. This one isn't as servere as the others, but I still think it unfair.
If a player is stealthed, and other players are looking for him in the same area, knowing he is close by, the stealthy character can click a transition point and effortlessly evade the persuers and once in the next area, unclick his stealth and run for miles before the others suspect that he could have left.

- Surprise attack. This one is rather nasty, but it takes at least two cooperating players to pull off, and fortunately I've never seen it done more than once on another server, a long time ago.
Player 1 is being persued for a crime and the guard is hot on his tail. Meanwhile, in the same party as Player 1, Player 2 lurks in a nearby area waiting for a signal. As player 1 draws near the transition point, the guard still hot on his tail, he sends a tell to his partner who emmidiately warps into the other area, and at the same time Player 1 turns and fights with Player 2 by his side. They're now two against one, and thanks to metagaming and transition play they have the element of complete surprise for reasons impossible to explain IC.

Following are a few tips to avoid commiting transition play, and to avoid having it used against you:

- Don't fight near transitions. Unsuspecting players could wander into the middle of the fight at anytime and get killed.
This matters especially for spellcasters using large area of effect spells, and any fights involving hostile NPCs.

- Don't hang around transition points for any good reason if it can be avoided. If you have somebody toggled hostile, for an example, and they were to appear right next to you, they could trigger an automated response from your character and/or any summons/companions and get killed.
Simularly, you could risk they started doing the same to you...

- When being persued by other players, try to avoid making many transitions. Computer speed and loading times should not play a big factor in determining whether someone gets caught or not. Nor should it allow you to completely disappear from the following party's sight before they can load the new area.

- When being persued by spawns, don't try escaping through transitions unless you plan on turning back to kill them all quickly, before another player can pass through that transition for a nasty surprise.

- Don't ever run into Isinhold or another No PvP area to evade persuit. Things will get very awkward if characters suddenly no longer can harm each other when they were trying to do just that only moments ago...

This is meant to prevent transition play, not encourage it.
Thanks for reading, and I hope it helps.

[Moloch]

Great points Kenny, even though you implied it, just to be clear lets add:

- Do not set ambushes at transitions. Laying a series of deadly traps at the foot of a transition is not acceptable. If you plan an ambush it should be a reasonable distance away.

[DM Richard (Retired)]

Very good post!



For those that think they could do this and get away with it... you never know when the player you ambush will turn out to be a DM or be running around with a DM. So don't assume we will not find out what you are doing. You may be doing it to us or in front of us!

[Keetena]

Really a wonderfull post, all points are wonderfull - but in just one I don't think the same --- avoid a transition yes, but enter a no pvp is teh same as enter a pvp city in isinhold case -- I mean, if someone enter isinhold he is running for his life, so I do think wise to run where you'll find guards - this is the same enter redmist or any other city, even those not pvp - technically the pursuer will not fight there dispiste the mode seted I do think he'll avoid so easy troubles with law. But really really great and I sign below

[moulinous]

Sometimes i think the dice bags take away from rping but sometimes they are appropriate. as for transing, never even thought of it though i do try to make it to isnhold sometimes when i know i am being followed or suzail not because of the pvp or npvp, but because i know i have more chance of running into allies. i have heard people say to me it is cheap to run to isnhold but i have alot more chance of running into someone there that might help me then running into Redmist...

[DM Grizwald]

Im going to say if im around isinhold and being chased by visitant, ranan and louis all at once...im running in there for a few reasons. 1. because there are alot of people there and good chance to run into friends 2. guards and the red ravens 3. because its a no pvp area (i mean did i say that out loud?)...no seriously i usually only run into isinhold if im near by.

When there was an attack by redmist, i did not go back to isinhold though. i evaded them and chilled around for a while, but eventually went to suzail (war wizards, lots of purple dragons) Just to say that isinhold may be a safe place but its not to be abused

and here i go again...ramble ramble ramble

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

I will say this, I have used traps at transitions before. Unfair ... totally. Though at the time i set about 20 so they kinda just ended up overlapping the trasition. I'll make it a point not to do it again, and i havent done it since then. I havent ever used the sneak attack deal at a transition.

As for escaping through transitions ... where are you supposed to go when being pursued? Stay in the same area and run in circles? I can see not transitioning back and forth as in doubling back.

BTW Isinhold has been turned back to full PvP so it is no longer a safe area... (i think thats what i saw last night).

But I won't side track this thread with my thoughts of PvP in town. Ill start a new thread.

[Moloch]

If you are running and a transition continues your path, I would expect you to take it. The problem is unfairly using the transition to cover yourself or gain an advantage.

As an example, if you make it through and lets say you have a faster PC so you load faster and can get farther away, maybe even go stealth before the pursuer loads that to me would be taking advantage of the transition. In truth the pursuer would "see" you as nothing is blocking their view.

Anyway.. I'll shut up now and just say we are watching!

[Booze Hound]

here's a little something on this...occasionally, I get myself into a little situation where I need to flee. ow this doesn't happen that often, because as a good ranger, Vind is pretty good at picking opponents apart from places where they have a hard time getting at him. (like I RP he is up in trees, or on rocks and such when I can shoot them from a spot they cannot reach since that is what a good ranger would do)

but occasionally things go sour, and they get wise to him and somehow manage to get to him, and even though he could take 1 hill giant or mountain giant at a time, 3 are gonna stomp him fast. So he runs. well unfortunatly game mechanics being how they are, no matter how far away I get, or how out of sight, or whatever, I cannot lose them, often even using stealth. you get on the complete opposite side of a mountain and find a place to hide, and they are gonna come right at ya. so he runs through a transition area stealthed and loses said giants.

I figure this as a good outdoorsman (with 50+ Hide MS)
could lose some dimwitted giants eventually, then circle back around through the forest and begin picking them off again.

I don't leave the spawns, I just need the element of surprise again.

is this alright?

[marklar]

here's one that sucks: being chased then the person who's chasing you loads before you so they wait for you then attack you when you come through.

and i don't know about you kenny but i have yet to be chased by someone without true seeing so the stealthing at a transition is pretty pointelss.

[Spooks]

Since this is a Party server, not a solo server... I'll have to say have your tank friend distract them while you shoot from far away.

Different topic:

If a rogue wants to ambush someone going to isinhold from redmist, is it allowed to "block" a transition with traps? Like say this:

You ambush a PC, hit him a couple times, and then run.

You have traps set up prior to this at the entrance to a transition, Isinhold as an example. you then run behind your traps, before a transition and shoot them. If they see the traps they sit there for a few minutes, figuring out what to do. If they dont see them, they charge you and get blown up(rogue wouldn't w/ Imp. Evasion + high reflex)

Or similarly, if you expect them to run through a transition to get away from you, can you put them in front of a transition, so that they need to run through them to escape. Effectively it's the same thing, but this way it gives them the choice of finding a way around/ using a different transition (if it isnt also trapped)

[kenny26]

spooks i'm not sure what you're trying to say, but to me it sounds like you're moving into a grey area.

planting traps near a transition is generally considered bad form because often the character won't be able to move around them.

besides, planting a trap 10 feet from a transition gives him much shorter time to spot ot before triggering it..

had your traps been planted out in the open, the character would be able to spot them well ahead (if his search skill is that high) and/or move around them.

if you set traps so close to a transition that you eliminate either of these options, then you're commiting transition play.

[Booze Hound]

I'd say that putting traps anywhere that you'd have to hit them to either get to a transition or when coming from a transition is a bad idea, and kinda crappy. I'd keep them in the open...cause really..how could your character see that little blue area to set traps there? personally if I were being chased like that...I'd climb trees hop up the cliff and head through the "transition" area but that little blue strip doesn't go all the way up the cliff and across the ground, it's just a little area that you would be seeing OOC to lay traps in front of it.

[DM Richard (Retired)]

"If a rogue wants to ambush someone going to isinhold from redmist, is it allowed to "block" a transition with traps? Like say this:

You have traps set up prior to this at the entrance to a transition, Isinhold as an example. you then run behind your traps, before a transition and shoot them."


No. That is not ok for several reasons.

1. If the traps are close to a transition then those coming through the transition will not have a fair chance to see them. I understand that you are saying the person you are fighting is already in the area but there is still a chance someone else will come through from the other side.

2. Logan's response is very much correct. The only reason you are trapping there is because of the ooc info of a transition. If it were a real world (or even a game world built like asherons call) there would be many ways around that spot and no such thing as transition areas.

Keep traps away from transitions please.

[DM Richard (Retired)]

"well unfortunatly game mechanics being how they are, no matter how far away I get, or how out of sight, or whatever, I cannot lose them, often even using stealth. you get on the complete opposite side of a mountain and find a place to hide, and they are gonna come right at ya. so he runs through a transition area stealthed and loses said giants."

Game mechanics seem messed up sometimes. That I'll grant you. However two wrongs does not make a right. There are several other tactics you could use to deal with that situation. Think about it. Besides maybe it isn't broken game mechanics but an evil DM behind it.

[kenny26]

to a devoted gamer who likes to roleplay and stay IC at all times, transitions are really a pain in the butt, because they're completely OOC and yet they have such a central role in making any server work...

generally try to keep fighting and RPing completely seperate from transitions and loading new areas...
i have often tried to roleplay near a transition, typing a line or two only to see all my friends disappearing through that blasted transition before i can hit enter.

i generally try to avoid transitions unless i'm going to use them right then and there.

other players don't need to go to such lengths though. just avoid exsessive use of transitions when you're being followed, chasing someone or fighting.

[Spooks]

So if you take the "transition" out. Could you do that for a narrow pass/cliff which the only way to cross the cliff is with traps. Or could you put a trap in a doorway. The transition was an example, but ultimately it narrows down to this.

Can you block a PC with traps? IG you consider obstacles they can climb over, and thus give a little space to represent the space they climb over the cliff to avoid it.

But say a "Chasm" much like the walkways in alot of crypts, where you have a path, and on either edge a vast pit of black. COULD I plant a trap on the bridge, making it so in order to cross you need to walk through them. Because in real life, the only other way to avoid them is to turn around or jump off the side and die.

GRANTED I have no rogue characters and aI don't plan on using traps any time soon. So this is all null and void for me. But I just wanna know. Can we, as long as the PC has a chance to see and choose what to do, block them in? IRL, I can see an assasin following a target into a cave and they cross a bridge inside... The assasin boobytraps the bridge so that when they need to cross the bridge to exit, they either see the traps and take the "harder" way out, or they plow through... or they sit there... or somehow set them off...

The question I am ultimately asking is: As long as they aren't "deviously hidden" through a mechanics exploit, and are legitimately placed in a place where there can't avoid them because IRL they wouldn't be able to avoid them regularly, can we block off certain places with traps?

[DM Richard (Retired)]

"So if you take the "transition" out. Could you do that for a narrow pass/cliff which the only way to cross the cliff is with traps."

Yes!

"Or could you put a trap in a doorway."

Yes!

"Can you block a PC with traps? IG you consider obstacles they can climb over, and thus give a little space to represent the space they climb over the cliff to avoid it."

Perfect!

"The question I am ultimately asking is: As long as they aren't "deviously hidden" through a mechanics exploit, and are legitimately placed in a place where there can't avoid them because IRL they wouldn't be able to avoid them regularly, can we block off certain places with traps?"

You bet you can!

[kenny26]

the only thing i have to say to rogues blocking my way with traps is this:
try beating my evasion, suckers...! ;D

kidding...
yes, blocking your enemy's way via a bottleneck or other IC terrain advantage is permitted.
melee warriors do this too, fighting monsters a few at a time through a door way, etc.