Languages and RP

[canuckkane]

Just a pet peeve of mine I wanted to get out there. It seems that everyone and their brother can speak orcish these days, elves, dwarves, humans, you name it. I cannot see how so many non-orcs would be able to speak the language. There's very little chance that any orc, friendly or not, would teach the language to an outsider. I find it especially hard to believe that elves would know it. They have an innate hatred of orcs and vice versa, it should be near impossible for an orc or half-orc and an elf to sit down for long enough periods of time for the elf to learn the language. It was my understanding that most elves find the orcish tongue guttural and barely a language at all. Just my two cents

[HeatherRae]

None of my characters can speak Orcish. Nope.

Very frustrating when all the Orcs are yelling things. Bah!

[moulinous]

i could see some elves knowing it from the long standing conflict but not all the words. I think this subject was brought up before. Maybe the elf was a slave or maybe the orc was. Think about the French and the German languages...one is very guttural and the other very light. People have learned one or the other cause they are in close contact though at one time they were at war and hated one another. They learned one another's language to fight each other more effective.
Do i agree that too many people pick languages, names, regions without thought? yes. without a valid reason i do think it is kinda annoying. Elves are known to have schools and such and it is very likely that an elf would learn some smattering of this and that language wise because of these schools and training they go through in places like Evermeet and Everseka. Also, many orcs from different places have settled down of sorts and are beginning to peacefully trade thought the vast majority still rob and plunder but from thee areas some could have come as well....just trying to offer a valid rp reason to people that need one...and no this does not mean i disagree with you canuck, just trying to show that maybe they could speak some of these langs if some of us put a little more thought on picking their pcs history and parts when made. just fod for thought and i take your two cents and rasie one more for anyon elses thoughts...

[ShadowCatJen]

This was brought up before so I'll just post here what I posted there.

There's also a OOC factor to consider with all this. When a PC gets taken through the language selection part sometimes, due to where the character is from or what race they are, they don't end up with very many choices to add to their language list. Sometimes going with the angle that the PC may know some words in that language is enough to have to take the token.

However, on the other side, a person who's got that token needs to make sure that if it's just a few words and phrases they know to reflect that in their RP. It's not impossible for a person to just select a few words and phrases that he/she may pick up and ignore the full context of what is said. For example:

Elven Orc Hater has an Orc language token and is speaking to Half-Orc Person.

Elven Orc Hater: What's a pig face like you doing in town? Don't you need to go find your sty?

Half-Orc Person: *stares down at Orc Hater* (in Orc) Gods, not another pointy-eared hating twig to have to deal with. Just because my birth mother was....

Elven Orc Hater: *slowly mouthing the words "pointy-eared" in Orcish* Hey! I understood that! Figures some uncivilized lout like yourself would respond with nothing but insults. Be off with you!

Half-Orc Person: *walking off in disgust still speaking in Orc* Tempus, give me patience to put up with idiots like this.

Elven Orc Hater: *mouths the word for idiot in Orc* Ha! Another insult! That's all he can utter!

Elven Orc Hater's Friend (who also has Orc token): *looks flatly at Elven Orc Hater* You are an idiot. *heads after Half-Orc Person* Battle Brother, wait!

Someone can easily have it that even though they have the token, that they can only understand parts of the language. Not too many tend to RP it that way, though.

[EDM Entori]

just from the wizard elven perspective... ents base int is 22 now, and thst up to about 32-33 consistantly... learning new things quickly when it comes to languages is not hard. Condsidering 12 is average. 18 extremely smart... 32-- ents brain is bursting at the seams. Also why wouldn't elves know orc, enemies know each others languages for the reason of listening in, I've quite the few language tokens I've yet to use, because it will give it away that I know them.

Its like Elven, everyone and his brother knows elven these days. Don't take it too serious, if you want not to be over heard just /w *orc* and you text. to whisper, I know the elves I travel with use the /w *E* convention alot.

Just some opinions.

hope you get your answers..
Don

[Panros]

I have always RPed Torgeir knowing enough Condathan to speak it simply. When he is spoken to in the language he mostly responds in common. It's a good point brought up that just because one has the language token doesn't mean one knows it fully or speaks it fluently.

Adding on to the above I RPed with an elf maiden who spoke common in a Luskan accent who barely knew elvish. My elf would speak to her only in elvish to try and get her to learn the language.

That's my spare change. Have fun. *nods*

[pendragon1]

I would have to agree on both fronts. It does seem like when someone switches to a racial language, the rest of those present carry on, never missing a beat. Now, it is hard to say from actually knowing, because Paz only has a 10 Int and thus can only speak Common and Chondathan. (10-11 is actually average Entori, :-P ) But, I have noticed this on several occassions, specifically from characters that you would assume don't have terribly high Int scores (Ftr/Pal/Rgr types).

While Entori has a multitude of languages, as he and other high Int people should, many others should probably only have one or two language tokens unless they are a bard. Perhaps there is a problem with regional selections and language tokens. While most regions do offer some PC race choices, they definitely do not offer them all and are often loaded with human regional languages and monstrous languages (goblin, giant, etc). It would be good for RP for players to be more familiar with that region and its ties to native inhabitants in order to RP knowing those languages.

Example, Goblin is a language choice for Cormyr because of the long history of war between humans and goblins here, but in the Moonsea, there is more likelihood of human/goblin interaction since it is a scrupulous area. Another example is Orcish, Elves for the most part have been warring for tens of thousands of years, thus it is likely that they learn not just a smattering of the tongue but a thorough understanding of such. In contrast, humans of the Uthgardt tribes in the Savage Frontier have not only fought against orc tribes but have a higher than average population of half-orcs and while barbarians aren't known for their language skills, they would be able to relate similarly the same as DM Shadowcat Jen shows in her example.

It is all about how we roleplay. Paz has learned a few words of Elven from hearing people talk and making appropriate Int check rolls; is hoping to eventually learn, since many of his companions are Elves. Much of this he will be RPing through asking and I have begun keeping notes on the few words he knows.

[Gordy101st]

The main worry here is obviously someone rolling a character up and then deciding that just because they have the option of language tokens due to int, that they BS it in there somewhere with a crowbar.

I think one person knowing a load of languages without playing a linguist or having literally MASSIVE int is doing a bad job really. If for nothing else, OOC it ruins the point of even having the languages when everyone understands them and sterilizes another tool for creating tension and a realistic world.

Not to mention that just because a character is intelligent enough to learn a language it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll have the opportunity to. Learning Orcish from the conflict would only land you knowing a few choice phrases like "Theres more over there! Get them!" and by the time you've heard that - knowing the lingo isn't what you'll need to be worried about . You learn a language FROM someone unless you're a linguist. I can't imagine there being that many GCSE or A-Level Orcish books lying around Cormyr, haha.

Over-all I think its really important to avoid cheesing languages into your character's past, just like I think its lame to say "Once worked for a king so can command respect by use of vernacular" in your character description. Its power-playing, pure and simple for the most part.

How many people would learn Orcish really and who from? As was said, Half-Orcs would only know it if they'd had the chance to live with their Orc side of the family (very rare) and the chances of someone without Orc blood getting the chance to do that are roughly the same as a fireball's chance in hell. Learning a language like Orcish is cause for your entire backstory really, its not something you 'by the way' in there at the end when you realise you've got enough INT to pick more languages.

I've not met anyone in game yet whos done it, but since I've started playing a gnome recently I'm pretty sure soon that I'll meet someone who announces they've been to Lantan and just picked it up even though there'll be no mention of it in their biog anywhere. I posted all that ^ because when I got to the language screen I immediately thought "ooh... that would be interesting to play having and that would be helpfull!" then realised that though I could write a perfectly plausible reason for my character having a language (Its fiction, you can make anything plausible if you're going to break SoB for it) I'd be crossing the realm of probability a few times over and making a character too well travelled and too knowledgable for a level 1 as well as changing the character concept just for the bonus' on offer.

0.02