i coulds use some pointes

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

The Roleplay Discussion and Roleplay Ideas and Suggestions forums have great tidbits of information. Though, somehow I suspect that you meant outside our little server

With regards to taking RP seriously, not sure how to respond to that. 1st) you should never kill yourself or another person in real life because of something that happened in a game. 2nd) you should not take personal offense to things that happen in the game as long as it was within the rules and had proper RP. Taking these two things into consideration, I say you should take RP seriously. To me, Hrothgar is a man in and of himself. He is seperate from me, though we share similarities. He has motivations, a past, goals for the future. All these factors allow me to keep interested in him.

I hope that helps a little.

[Panros]

Yeah, I mean, you should be honored when Hroth knifes you in the back. I know I was.........

Seriously, children, don't take things personally. However, make your character take the things personally. You dig?

[Pookey]

I has been my experience that if you send tells to the other player telling them how horrible they are to you and that you're crying at your keyboard, they get really sorry they did it and give you a free OOC raise.

Umm....

The point is to communicate with the other player (not the character) about what is happening and make sure that it's fun.

Example 1:
Once a while ago, when I was relatively new to the server, Zakhary was standing around the Regal Griffon chatting with friends about Cyric (Raven Rift was PKing people in Isinhold with a summoned Balor at the time). Ranan Hallomein was sitting right behind me in disguise, and decided he wanted to "punctuate" the discussion by puncturing Zak's kidney with a dagger.

Grozer sent me a tell, asking if I was up him screwing with my character. I am always up for someone screwing with my character (note this for future reference people, Zak -will- be your RP punching bag if you need it), so I said yes. Well at the time, the Regal Griffon was a no-PVP area, so he just told me what he was going to do, i.e. stab me in the back and run off, so I was prepared for it.

I promptly fell down and bled all over the floor for everyone's amusement and much hilarity ensued. The point is, everyone kept a good attitude, there was communication between the players, and we all realized that the point of this is to make it fun for others as well as yourself. The large group Zak was chatting with had a lot of fun because of this little incident.

Example 2:
Zak is walking down the road from Isin to Redmist with a party consisting of Beloril, Parsifal and Fisten. We are stopped and robbed by Hrothgar, but the robbery goes relatively badly and he ends up killing all of our characters. After killing us, Quadhund provided us with OOC raises and told us what he was taking off our bodies (pickpocketing) in tells. Once again, communication between the players. I think I called him some names in tells, too, but it was all in good fun and I wanted to make sure he knew I wasn't really upset, though Zak doesn't like getting killed very much.

The point here is not to take offense, as DM Greenhouse says. It is just a game and the whole point is to make things fun and entertaining for yourself -and- for those around you. If you aren't making it fun for the others, you're missing the point. It isn't about you alone. Its about you -and- everyone else having a good time.

So, my recommendation is to send tells to another player when your characters are in hairy or confrontational situations. Make sure you are both trying to make it fun and entertaining for each other. Its hard to go wrong when you do that.

PS Ranan is a poopie head.

[Munroe]

My character got killed by Hrothgar too. *pouts* Of course since it was Hrothgar, I knew it was coming.

*mumbles something about Iron Bands of Bolaro*

[moulinous]

Hroth is a sissy...anyhow, i have been hunted and killed by the best of them and i still remember telling a epic pc paladin in a tell, you would know his father since you are from there and her sending back, i think i know what my pc knows. Lesson learned. Never expect anyone to be cool with your pc just cause you are, best thing about dming pnp is that sooner or later no matter how careful you are, players do crazy things. The best laid plans rarely get followed perfectly...

[max]

Also, don't take a shotgun to yourself because of what happens in game
You know that little thing that says "game experience changes online" its because some hardcore everquest nerd got upset and emo over his character and shot himself, and me at the time being an everquest player was not happy about it.

This is pretty much what started the "games make you kill people" thingydo, because there are unstable people out there that go bonkers cause their character couldn't get their level/item/gold/thing/PK/tell/food/something dumb and they go off the deep end for no reason.

So yea, if you get the dumb kids coming up to you and yelling at ya, take a deep breath and tell the DM (though i pray to all thats holy that dumb L337 kids never show up on the server)

[Paragon]

I for one, have never, ever killed myself in real life because of something that has happened in a game. I don't mean any offense to anyone who actually has killed themselves because of something that has happened in a game, it's just a difference of opinion about what is right and wrong.

[Teneas]

Not just an online thing. Back in good ol' 1990 when I was introduced to the GREAT PnP D&D my parents had a fit, because was "devil worship" and some kid had taken to many hits of acid once and went nuts playing it. Nut jobs are everywhere, and as much as I would like to have a +25 vorpal sword of death to slow drivers, it just dont happen.

There will always be someone that gets WAY to upset about stuff. Most of us put lots of time in here, and we all got our favorite pc, but we all have to remember that in the end this is...............A GAME!

[tskfrc58]

I had a related "episode" some years ago playing star wars rebellion in league play back on the msn game zone. This one fellow was insistant on challenging me ..over and over and over again, and making all sorts of "im gonna kill you" comments. Well i finally gave in and played the guy, who was ranked rather high up in the standing,something like a 30 game undefeated streak.

Early on in the game he was like, "you dont know what your doing, do you?" or "you suck, n00b", the usual armor of internet anonymity plus 5. Until my fleets started showing up and i systematically dismantled him

After that he had some sort of an about face and started ranting, calling me a cheater, etc, all the usual interner uber-l33t kiddie stuff. He, of course, bails from the match just as i am about to finish him off, then proceeds to go out in the lobby and spam the chat with the same nonsense as in game. Well, this sort of stuff happens a lot on the web, but then it, well, it turned dark. Using the match system in place for reporting, i reported the match as won, no big deal, there's a system there for this type of thing. Well, about 10 minutes goes by and i get this PM from the guy with him begging me to let the match go, it went something like this:

"please dont report me. im sorry. My name's joey (or something)i have cancer and that streak is the only thing i have going for me. if you report me ill kill myself. Dont report me."

Well, the normal thing that would pop into your head at this point would be, "Sure, whatever kid, grow up" Or something like that. But for some reason there was something about the wording the kid used that gave me the picture of a teenage kids with a terminal illness, alone and hinging everything on some intangible win streak that nobody would ever care about, except him.

Well, i didnt report him, and about two months went by and nobody ever saw the kid again, so who knows. Maybe he wasnt lying.

There really isnt much of a moral here, other than sometimes people get too wound up on somthing like this. if your shallow and conceited in real life, your gonna be so in most of your games too. The web brings out the worst in a lot of people (sometimes the best), and certain personality types shouldnt be playing at all.

I myself sometimes let real life stresses trickle into my gaming too, especially when there is a high amount of time invested into something like a character youve played for YEARS of your real life. When it stops bieng fun and you get burned out you should STOP PLAYING for awhile. I find myself doing this more and more, and , very rarely, get a little snippy,but other people, well, can go off the deep end and take it very personal. A couple years ago i was fairly known for some decent and creative RP, not so much these days as that spark seemed to gone away, hehe.

Take it in stride.

[wynter]

was wondering where this disapeard to, mmm kinda got off topic but i was looking for some points on how to play a lawful evil charecter like how would a lawful evil charcter treat allies and such i was told that wynter is to serios all the time but i always thought evil people are not the friendly kind

[barakaguru]

wynter said:

i was looking for some points on how to play a lawful evil charecter like how would a lawful evil charcter treat allies and such i was told that wynter is to serios all the time but i always thought evil people are not the friendly kind

I've read some Internet discussion that suggests Darth Vader is lawful evil: he faithfully served the evil empire.

Bear in mind lawful evil simply means that you faithfully follow a code, but you constantly seek to manipulate others to fit into that system. This doesn't mean you have to be specifically nasty or nice, but some of the best villains that would be lawful evil are the charismatic, disarming type. Really dangerous.

[Driderman]

Personally I'd say evil people can as friendly as any others. Its just when the *chickenwing* hits the fan they show their true colors, saving their own ass and not caring about anyone else. Being Lawful Evil would mean also having to save the asses of any you had an obligation to protect, for whatever reasons.
Lawful evil characters know that laws, rules and oaths must be upheld for society to prevail. That usually just makes them very careful about what they promise as they usually are loath to compromise their own security/position just to help out

[Pookey]

My thoughts on LE

Keep in mind that Lawful Evil is Lawful. They stick to the organization, even while scheming to get the power and move up in the ranks. When I think LE, I ask myself what would a Nazi or Stalinist do?

Allies are just that, useful people. They help you, you help them. If they aren't useful any more, you start to make a calculation on whether to continue your alliance, based on whether they might be useful again in the future, whether they can disrupt your plans by blabbing, or whether it makes you look good to keep them as your friend.

The thing about lawful evil is that they stick to the rules, but they want to rise up in power so they can make the rules.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Wynter is a person. She can have feelings and motivations outside of her lawful evilness. She may have friends who she likes regardless of their use to her. She may have enemies who should be her allies but for personal reasons, she hates them.

Also, some lawful evil characters don't see themselves as evil, just willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done or achieve their goal. That includes mowing down anyone who gets in their way. It doesn't mean they mow down everyone they can. They might be quite pleasant to everyone normally. Even their goal might be a good one, but they don't care how they achieve it.

For Wynter specifically: She's evil because she kills people. She has no ethics or scruples where that is concerned. She's lawful because she believes in discipline and organization and a hierarchy. Outside of those two things, she could have any kind of personality, friendly and outgoing, gives to charity, whatever.

Anyway, IMHO and I hope that helps. A little rambling but it's early and I haven't had my coffee.

[moulinous]

I too see the Nazis as the perfect example of Lawful Evil. They had a strong organized aim, definite evil, and were loyal to all other Nazis first and foremost. Does this mean they were always serious? No, several comedy's and plays were written for the sole enjoyment of one of the most evil men of our time, Hitler. I have read papers and books on how he is considered to be one of the greatest orators of our time(high charisma) and could speak for 8 hours keeping people riled up and our their feet. Compare that today to one our president who i almost turn the channel after his third DOH! comment in two minutes.
Lawful Evil is the Nazis.
Chaotic Evil would be Son of Sam or maybe Richard Ramirez type i think.
Neutral Evil would be my second grade teacher. Was out for herself and just a real B word.

[Grozer]

*points up to Pookey* some good points there... of course playing a Banite, I have some opinions on LE...

Allies are just that, useful people. They help you, you help them. If they aren't useful any more, you start to make a calculation on whether to continue your alliance, based on whether they might be useful again in the future, whether they can disrupt your plans by blabbing, or whether it makes you look good to keep them as your friend.

This extends farther than allies... it even extends to people within the organization. LE's are driven by survival of the strong and the weak need to be killed off.

The thing about lawful evil is that they stick to the rules, but they want to rise up in power so they can make the rules.

The important part to keep in mind about LE, is what rules they follow... it DOESNT mean they support the laws of the land... it means whatever code they are faithful to they are fanatical about it. LE organizations have a very strict heirarchal structure that they would not overtly circumvent. They may do so behind the scenes in order to climb up the ladder but its a delicate balance.


This is from another thread on alignments perhaps it is helpful:

Lawful Evil: These characters believe in using society and its laws to benefit themselves. To them, structure and organization elevate those who deserve to rule and provide a clearly defined hierarchy between master and servant. Thus lawful evil characters support systems that protect their own concerns; if someone else suffers because of that, too bad. Such people obey laws out of fear of punishment rather than any higher moral code. Because they may be forced to honor an unfavorable contract or oath, lawful evil characters are usually very careful about giving their word. Once it is given, though, they break their word only if they can find a way to do so legally. An iron-fisted tyrant and a devious, greedy merchant are examples of lawful evil people.

Lawful Evil (LE): The "Dominator"
LE characters follow a strict code of conduct and the laws of their order and leadership, but without mercy or compassion. Power rules and the weak deserve their fate. This is one alignment that is often misunderstood. A LE character might not uphold the laws of the land. Instead, they have plan and organize what evil they want. Again, think 'orderly', not 'law abiding'.

[gathera]

Another model that can provide insights to lawful evil might be taken from the Soprano's. Although it is a Hollywood perspective it can be a template as well. Strict organization with a definite leadership hierarchy. Loyalty to the organization or at least a health dose of fear to keep you in-line. Anyway just a thought. Besides Ranan's not evil just misunderstood anyway, heh.

[wynter]

mmm some good stuff guys thanks ;D guess ill have to see about joining a group and working my way up . but why is theft concederd chaotic if im evil and something like murder is not?

[moulinous]

Murder is considered a chaotic action, when i was a bad guy and doing bad guy things, any pdks i killed i got chaotic points for, so it is.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Murder can be considered legal if it is set up in the correct manner. IE framing the situation so that it looks like self defense.

Stealing is not inherently evil, but is most certainly chaotic (unless for some odd reason stealing was made legal ... but i think that's what they call mercantilism).

[SlothfulCat]

Think what helps determien chatoic/evil is /how/ you do it.

You banditize the roads withotu killing anyone who doesnt fight back - Chaotic

You decide to kill an unarmed woman so she cant identify you as a bandit later - Evil

You decide to for now on kill then loot the corpse as your style of banditry - Choatic Evil

You get discovered by the PDs... and run away from them when they try to arrest you - Chaotic

You resist arrest with force - chaotic

You resist arrest with force, and kill a PD in the process - Chaotic Evil

One key thing to remember, Purple Dragons and militia are entities of law when they're trying to enforce the rules; thereby any action done against them is Chaotic, where as it would take something debased, like luring htem into a trap and killing them to spread anarchy... to be Chaotic Evil.

[DM Grizwald]

avieupator said:

Think what helps determien chatoic/evil is /how/ you do it.

You banditize the roads withotu killing anyone who doesnt fight back - Chaotic

You decide to kill an unarmed woman so she cant identify you as a bandit later - Evil

You decide to for now on kill then loot the corpse as your style of banditry - Choatic Evil

You get discovered by the PDs... and run away from them when they try to arrest you - Chaotic

You resist arrest with force - chaotic

You resist arrest with force, and kill a PD in the process - Chaotic Evil

One key thing to remember, Purple Dragons and militia are entities of law when they're trying to enforce the rules; thereby any action done against them is Chaotic, where as it would take something debased, like luring htem into a trap and killing them to spread anarchy... to be Chaotic Evil.

Nicely put, it even helps me....someone who's neither alignments... to understand this better.

[wynter]

lol ok so being chaotic is easy but how does one act to keep being evil but get lawful points?
i try and act in an honorable way, stay true to the people i consider my friends and allies,keep my word but try to word deals and such so that i can bend them to my favour but im still sooo far down into chaotic aliment i got to be doing something wrong or do dms just dish out chaotic points more then lawful?

[Driderman]

This is just guesswork, but I suppose DMs dealt out chaotic points to lawful characters when they do something chaotic AND to a lesser extent when they do something 'neutral' as well, seeing as doing anything non-lawful is straying from the alignment really