Disable floaty names/information server rule?

[Lokarn]

When I first started playing here it was suggested to me to disable the floating names above peoples heads by a DM, I have to say this greatly helps me with several basic RP elements.

I don't know how strong that ogre is simply because I can't see the special name after or before "ogre" that has been added to him. Thus disallowing myself to meta-game. Instead, I examine every creature looking for differences to see if there is anything I can "see" IC to decide if I want to take it on.

Disguises, TOO many times have I been wearing clothes no one has ever seen me wear before and a hood and have people walk up to me and just say hello Onisha how are you....... This makes me absolutely crazy! Once, I even wore full plate and a closed face helm and still someone walked up and said my name......
Instead of allowing myself to do this to others, I ALWAYS assume if someone is wearing a hood, even if I know I have seen it before that they are disguised. I send a tell asking if they are disguised. Not having the floating names over their heads helps me use what I can see to determine if I recognize a person.

I spend hours some days simply sitting around the major cities[and isinhold ] just watching people and waiting for information about them to come out in conversation. I always see subtle, if not blatant use of floaty names.

My question is do any others wish there was a way to make this a server rule? Perhaps there is some way to turn them off at the server level? Although it would be impossible to enforce, folks like me who follow the rules because it's a rule will do it.

Please offer some thoughts.

[Nim_White]

There would be more to be said for this idea if the basic engine was not so restricted in the number of faces available for one's avatar (try for instance making a female dwarf - variations in hair style, yes, but all the faces are the same)

And in addition there always seem to be any number of folk who are dressed more or less identically - black robes or tunics, etc., and may have the same face - Celith and Rhyllin spring to mind.

So the more or less subtle clues that we rely on in real life to identify folk are missing from the avatars. That being the case, I think disabling the floating identity is going too far. One should, of course, not use a name that one does not know, but that is a 'natural' aspect of role-playing.

[Myth]

I agree on most of the points you've mentioned. Sending a tell and asking if someone is in disguise is certainly a good practice. Now, regarding the floating name thing. There's a -not so small- detail. In real life, people actually have faces. Here we're limited to like how many... 30 heads? So as far as I know, if they're clothing is not -really- distinctive, I won't be able to tell them apart. However my character -would- be able to tell them apart by looking at their faces, even from a distance -unless he's got some vision difficulties or it's dark.

Point is... we're playing in an RP server. Everyone of us should get used to separating OOC to IC information and act accordingly, it's one of the most important things for the mood of the game. If turning off the floating names help you, by all means do so. However, it won't be realistic for me to see 2 people with the same face and not know who's who? And also voices... Most of the time unless someone tries to alter his voice, I'll RP that if my character knows him and has talked to him a lot, then he can probably recognize him. Same goes with body language (walking, fighting etc.)

So, what I find important is ... clothes alone don't do the trick, if I try to pass in disguise, I need to emote my disguise, emote my changed voice, even roll a bluff or perform to act out the disguise.

Just my two cents.

edit: I see Mezereon made the faces point just as I was writing the post, and I agree with it

[Helgrin Granitesoul]

This isnt a rule.. You dont have to do this. I was just an suggestion.

I for one have it turned off. Most time I can identify most people from sight. If I can't.. Probably means I havent had much interaction. And if you want to make sure you can always hold down the tab key and then put the mouse over them and the name will pop up.

[Thanatos]

I could be wrong, but doesn't the 'tab' button pretty much make the names pop up anyway, thus negating the whole purpose of the rule in the first place?

I'm sorry that you're going through the phase of people recognising you when your prefer your character not to be recognised but unfortunately you can't force people to not recognise you any more than you can force them to roleplay well.

Though for Onisha's particular problem, here's a fun trick you might want to consider using next time someone says Onisha's name while she is clearly hooded. Switch your hood with a disguise mask that definitely does not look like Onisha, and basically RP that Onisha's pretending to be someone definitely not Onisha. Hell, you might even want to consider RP being someone completely different if only to make your point.

*shrugs* Just a thought.

[btaf90]

I think we need to have some pity on the nominally challenged...

Personally, I'd forget my own name if it weren't sewn into my underwear.

Screw this disabling the floating names thing. I'd like to campaign for having floating names installed in the real world. My life would be much easier if I didn't have to trick people I've known for three months into telling me their name again...

But on the topic of the cunningly disguised hooded figure...would you really not recognize your best friend in a hoody? Seriously, try that out next time you run into one of your friends on the street.

"I'm sorry, do I know you?...oh, hey it's you!"

[Lokarn]

Again, this is not a rule no, as for the heads problem, It's a reare problem, one fixed by doing as Helgrin said, no you can't force folk to RP well, but you can use a tool like this to help them learn, as for people wearing the same clothes..... only very new players seem to wear the same clothes and only for a very short duration. It is hardly a problem there either.

As for emoting my disguise, yes I RP it out, I change her voice, and in most cases don't even speak. as for body launguage... it doesn't take much towalk differently. Also NwN has left out many skills that certain classes had in the pnp game so it's hard to simulate appropiately.

The hoody example is a very bad one, The hood that Onisha can wear here is magic and obscures her face as far as I can tell from it's description, and price heh. A hoody today simply can't do that, besides Onisha is no ones best friend and is adept at remaining unseen, that's why this is a game not real life.

Again, it's not a rule, but definately a good tool to use for RP.
I was asking to see how many folks thought it a good idea. I was thinking along the PvP "Rule" that was accepted by the majority of the player base a while ago. That sort of thing.

[Dachshund]

lokarn said:

The hoody example is a very bad one, The hood that Onisha can wear here is magic and obscures her face as far as I can tell from it's description, and price heh. A hoody today simply can't do that, besides Onisha is no ones best friend and is adept at remaining unseen, that's why this is a game not real life.

With regards to the hood... how many of you have an actual HOOD as a hood instead of an altered helmet... isn't that also bad rp to "disguise" your helmet as a hood when we all know that you can't possibly do that?

In my opinion, if you want to have the benefits a helmet bestows... keep it as a helmet.

If you want your character to have a hood or hooded cloak... buy a shadowed hood or a headpiece that is intended as a hood. Kinda like the Thieves Hood (I believe it's called that, but I'm not sure).

I've done it myself, but I'm an ignorant Dane... what's your excuse?

[TermaForever]

snubletraad said:

I've done it myself, but I'm an ignorant Dane... what's your excuse?

I'm a Computer Science Major. Nuff said.

[Thanatos]

Hell, I have an actual hood but what with wearing green armour and all, the disguise bit is lost on me.

Actually, I do have a helm that I wanted to alter as a hood and use the excuse that I purchased the services of spell-casters to magically enhance my cloak's hood so that it had the properties of my nifty helm... *catches his breath* But... Hell, it was too much money to alter it, so I kept it as a helm.

[Helgrin Granitesoul]

As far as the helm to a hood thing.. Being a smith IG when I have had people come up to me and ask me if I could change their helm into a hood I look at them like they just aske me if I could pass by an ale house and not stop in for a drink.

Usually I say "nay I canna do dat but me can make ya a hood dat will attach to yer helm and cloak dat will nay ever come loose in battle". The cost I say comes form the Mithral Clasps I will have to create since the metal is so rare and will not interfer with the magic of the existing helm.

Thats my RP way of dealing with it. Do THEY rp it that way.. *shrugs* But at least it satisfies my sense of what I can and can not do with the game mechanics

ANd as far as being able to recognize people and not see there faces.. I do that all the time... Coming up from behind people and the way they are dressed, their body shape, arm movements, stance.. All of those work to give clues as to who it might be....

[heimdall]

Disabling the floating names is a great idea for those of you who want to see the game more through your characters eyes, instead of through what you know OOC as a player.

thanatos said:

I could be wrong, but doesn't the 'tab' button pretty much make the names pop up anyway, thus negating the whole purpose of the rule in the first place?

If you actually disable the names then no, pressing tab will not cause everyone and everything's name to float up. In fact, nothing will float up. It really 'cleans' up the visual aspect of the game...chests, and loot drops will still glow blue if you hit the tab key, so you don't have to worry about missing the drops by having the names disabled. And you can still target any particular person or thing that has a name with the mouse, hit tab, and see the particular name of that person or thing however. So again, it may take a bit of getting used to, but it is by no means foolproof against those who just have to have that OOC info.

It helps to avoid those mishaps of automatic recognition however. I have played with these names disabled for at least a year and a half now and I have no trouble recognizing people from the different armor and/or clothes they wear. So they have the same 'head' as someone else, odds are they aren't wearing the same clothes...and most of you do stick to a fairly set wardrobe...so the argument that you cannot recognize people due to engine limitations is just a cover up for laziness in my opinion.

What becomes obvious with the names disabled is when you DON'T recognize someone right off the bat. They are hooded, or helmed, and are wearing suits of armor or clothes you have not seen before...I am constantly approached when disguised by people who somehow seem to know who I am. It's annoying, and the only reason they do so is because they see that floating name over my head and have not trained themselves to see what their character sees...

And I'm sorry there is a large difference between the modern 'hoody' sweatshirts of todays era and the hoods in game, some if not all of which actually state in thier description that they are specifically designed to conceal one's features...so that point of contention is invalid. (and those who modify thier helms into 'hoods'...feh...give me a break...that's one of the most ridiculous and sad things I've seen...go buy a hood - they cost what...6 gold... )

Personally, I have not seen anything BUT an improvement in roleplaying by turning these names OFF. It's a hardcore option for the hardcore players..and for hardcore players I cannot suggest this mode heavily enough...it may take a week to get used to but once you do, you'll never go back.

If you have trouble keeping track of who's who - there is a nifty tool you have available to you in game. It's called the journal. Use it.

If there 'was' a way to disable them from the server side, my vote would be to make it so.

However, it is a matter of choice...but if you aren't willing to even 'try' the option, and have nothing but negative comments to add, then just read this topic and move on. No one is forcing you to try it, and frankly the naysayers to someone's valid suggestion aren't winning any points in my book.

[Thanatos]

thanatos said:

I could be wrong, but doesn't the 'tab' button pretty much make the names pop up anyway, thus negating the whole purpose of the rule in the first place?

If you actually disable the names then no, pressing tab will not cause everyone and everything's name to float up. In fact, nothing will float up. It really 'cleans' up the visual aspect of the game...

Huh! I didn't know that. Now I definitely want to try and see what the fuss is about, though for the record, I'm very careful when it comes to recognising people. (Hopefully I won't start calling everyone by the wrong name. )

[heimdall]

I've picked fights with the wrong people because they were dressed similarly and I 'mistook' them for the wrong person. (they were wearing very similar armor and helm to the one I 'thought' they were)

Pefectly natural and was pretty darn funny roleplay that probably never would have happened had I had the 'OOC knowledge' that they were not in fact the one I was looking for.

[Rosving]

jimkaf said:

Now, regarding the floating name thing. There's a -not so small- detail. In real life, people actually have faces. Here we're limited to like how many... 30 heads? So as far as I know, if they're clothing is not -really- distinctive, I won't be able to tell them apart. However my character -would- be able to tell them apart by looking at their faces, even from a distance -unless he's got some vision difficulties or it's dark.

Same goes with body language (walking, fighting etc.)

I agree with this.
I think I could recognize my closest friends far of just by the way they walk. Too bad you don't have that option IG
I've tried disabling the floating names as well, but only for at brief time. For one thing because of the fact, that "everybody" looks the same. If my character knows another character well, and meets this person with a hood, I'd say that my character would generally recognize the other person. Here I'm thinking about that other characters build, the way he carries himself and so on. Of course this isn't always the case. For instance if my friend IG is standing with his back to me I wouldn't just run up to him and yell Hey "x". If it wasn't my friend though, still get something out of the situation. Confusion at first..and later on maybe a new friend.

Another matter.

It's much easier writing:
*gestures to wards "x"*
then:
*gestures to wards the dark hooded man holding a staff*

The latter would probably be preferred by some and I admit that it looks better. It has a nicer feel to it.

Anyway... the idea of the names not being there is a nice thought. You'd avoid being recognized no matter what you wear. But I do believe that it would be far worse if they were removed.

[heimdall]

Again I will say it...if you stick with this method, recognizing players by what they tend to wear is not that difficult...it just takes some time to 'train' your eyes to see as your character see's...truly...players really don't look that much like each other after you've all gained a couple levels and have started customizing your wardrobes a bit. And if you 'did' see a couple people that had the same 'head' - well obviously their faces are revealed and you should not have trouble recognizing them if you know who they are. It's called the 'examine' feature...

You don't have to comment here btw. If you don't want to immerse your character, or try a style of play that will invariably improve your game, that's fine. Don't try it...no one is or can force you to do so. But posting the reasons why you don't think you'd like it, or posting that you are in essence to lazy to bother...well...I'm not sure what you try to achieve by stating such things.

[Nim_White]

Well I for one posted a reply because the person who started the thread invited thoughts on the subject.

[Rosving]

heimdall said:

You don't have to comment here btw. If you don't want to immerse your character, or try a style of play that will invariably improve your game, that's fine. Don't try it...no one is or can force you to do so. But posting the reasons why you don't think you'd like it, or posting that you are in essence to lazy to bother...well...I'm not sure what you try to achieve by stating such things.

Well, as Mezereon also wrote, I wrote what I did just to comment on the matter. Hard core roleplayers really don't need to turn of the floaty name to become hard core/good roleplayers do they? They could use their emagination just as well..

They could judge that their character doesn't recognize a person they walk past even though they've spoken together on several occations. Just as an example.

I've only tried disabling the names for a few days, so I'll admit that I can't say for sure what it's like "on the other side". But if you all keep insisting that it improves your game, I might give it a second shot

[Munroe]

Regarding the helmet as hood thing.

I paid 3,000+ gold for someone to craft headgear in-game. I specifically told the person I had make it that I wanted adamantine chain sewn into a hood and a veil sewn into the hood as well. I roleplay that it is a black hood with adamantine chain sewn under with a black veil that can be pushed up or pulled down. I think the idea that a helmet can't look like a hood is ludicrous. Any hood could conceal a helmet or be attached to the outside of one. Yes, even a 6 gold pot helm could have a hood over it. A pot helm with a hood over it would look kind of like a pot helm covered in cloth unless it had some padding to give it more shape, but the only helmets that couldn't really are horned or winged helms, or the really oblong ones. Even a 6 gp pot helm has a crafting cost when changed in appearance, and that cost may exceed the cost of the helmet's purchase price. Even if the price of crafting doesn't exceed the purchase price, the material needed to make a hood should not be hard to come by. Having the appearance of a hood doesn't make it any less likely that a rust monster will eat it.

[Thanatos]

Well, I said I'd try it, and I did, but I was surprised to find out that to have all the names turned off, you also have to turn off pretty much any text feedback you could hope to have, which actually kind of hurt the RP experience rather than added to it, because there were no text pop-ups. It just kind of ending flooding the text window in one big sprawl (incredibly annoying if someone nearby is taking to an NPC at the same time as you're having an in-depth conversation with someone). This kind of ended up hurting my character's artificial sense of hearing, no longer really being able to distinguish from what direction a certain bit of text was coming in from. So all in all, I didn't find it improved my game much. Heck it didn't even remove OOC temptation because my mouse would go around examing things all on it's own really! I swear!

Anyway, I'm just pointing out the con of said technique. To be fair, I think DM Heimdall was just a wee bit out of line to imply that not using this feature meant that you weren't immersing your character, but I guess he really really believes in its merits. Personally, I don't have any trouble not abusing my OOC info. Heck, my characters tend to be very careful who they talk to anyhow, so a case of mistaken identity only happened once (and that was with the names). Heck, I'm like that in real life.

I say, if you're really incapable of imagining that there is no floating name above the characters and you feel roleplay-challenged by it, then by all means, go for it!

As an aside, finally disabling those damnable hideous portraits IS an aesthetic treat, but that's just my opinion.

[Myth]

thanatos said:

Well, I said I'd try it, and I did, but I was surprised to find out that to have all the names turned off, you also have to turn off pretty much any text feedback you could hope to have, which actually kind of hurt the RP experience rather than added to it, because there were no text pop-ups.

Not really, You leave all feedback on and disable the mouse-over feedback only. I tried it, and yup, I won't be ashamed to admit it, it helps! Thanks Heimdall.

[Booze Hound]

though this is getting rather off topic, just thought I'd chime in on this.

A lot of you are commenting here about how you could recognise your close friend if they were in a different outfit by stance/posture/manerisims, etc.

Any of you ever been to a Halloween party? Most Halloween costumes are extreme, sure, but one of my favorite things to do for halloween is to wear simple costumes that totally throw people off to my identity.

Changing hair color, changing facial hair, wearing flowy robes of some sort, and a small touch of make up. Squinting your eyes, and a slight hunch or posture change, a limp, and just like that, with little effort, people are going to have to look really hard to recognise you.

Just thought I'd toss that little nugget out there.

*hic*

[ShadowCatJen]

The pros and cons have pretty much been listed by others already. Not to fond of the floating text as sometimes text goes by way to fast for me to catch it all so I like to keep the floating names enabled.

For me, I like to look at who's around, then I take a look at how they're clothed.

For instance, I saw that Ranan was sitting at a table. This after hearing that Manshin had killed him in a "perma-death" kinda way. But looking at his avatar, Ranan was fully robed and hooded in light grays. For me, OOCly I was saying "Ahha, thought so", but for my character all she saw was some nameless bloke sitting at the table wearing full grey non-descript robes. She passed him by without batting an eyelash and not thinking anything was out of place and was still under the impression that Ranan was quite dead and feeding the worms somewhere.

For this, overall, I would say that it would be up to each individual player as to how they do it. Certainly, there can be metagaming issues especially when someone is trying to go about disguised. However, I think if the issue comes up it should be talked about OOCly between the players to resolve it.

[kaltorac]

Had a chance to visit some old logs today ... renamed and saved those I thought should be for my reference in the future and noticed sometning funny in a few of them regarding this post.

In the past ... one of my PC's had spent some time in Redmist disguised as a beggar ...... and I'd commented with him to another that all the beggars must be rich nobles because of all the coin and food I'd been collecting from other PC's. And this was just by sitting on the grass eating a pice of baddly molded cheese. The point is though .... an NPC Beggar was on the same screen and not one PC stopped to interact with it .... just me.

I too use the "floaty names" to see OOC sometimes .... it's too confusing to tell who you're talking to at times without them. I just always thought it was funny how I could go around as a "Beggar" and make a decent living because people were drawn to the name above my character is all.