General inquiry - vampire level drain and death

[lordtemplar32]

I like to play on this server. I like to play my Paladin. It's nice to be good for a change. I like to roleplay as realisticly as I can. I am also not the best roleplayer. So I tend to ask questions. So here's one:

If you get a negative level from getting hit by a vampire, is it the same as biting you?

I asked someone in game and he said yes. So I thought I'd go with it. First mistake. So you have half of the town looking for you, trying to kill you. You have a few people who want to investigate to see if it is true or not. So they check your character and decide that it is not too late and you can be healed. They send you to Shallybrook, but you don't have enough money for the Cleric there to heal you! So you return to Isinhold, people notice you, and due to your character's alignment and sense of duty to his diety he willfully gets killed.

I'm a bit frustrated here, one mistake and not enough gold to fix it ends your characters life, he gets killed, burnt, a stake through his heart. Now I understand that there's "always a way" to magically come back to life. Dismembered? No problem, a healing spell can fix you up. Corpse is charred? No problem, some other healing spell can help you. But this level of annihalation inflicted by another player, is that fair? My inquiry is: How can I bring my Paladin back? There is no realistic or possible way he could possibly be brought back. I'm frustrated. I really liked my Paladin. But it'd be kind of odd to see him walking around a week from now after he had been killed by tentacles, burnt by fire, and impaled through the heart by a wooden stake. I have to admit I enjoyed the roleplaying up until the point I learned my character would -need- to die for the good of everyone else. Hopefully by posting here I'll get some very cleverly tailored excuses.

[Munroe]

Sept 2, 2008 1:51:26 GMT -5 lordtemplar32 said:

I like to play on this server. I like to play my Paladin. It's nice to be good for a change. I like to roleplay as realisticly as I can. I am also not the best roleplayer. So I tend to ask questions. So here's one:

If you get a negative level from getting hit by a vampire, is it the same as biting you?

I asked someone in game and he said yes. So I thought I'd go with it. First mistake. So you have half of the town looking for you, trying to kill you. You have a few people who want to investigate to see if it is true or not. So they check your character and decide that it is not too late and you can be healed. They send you to Shallybrook, but you don't have enough money for the Cleric there to heal you! So you return to Isinhold, people notice you, and due to your character's alignment and sense of duty to his diety he willfully gets killed.

I'm a bit frustrated here, one mistake and not enough gold to fix it ends your characters life, he gets killed, burnt, a stake through his heart. Now I understand that there's "always a way" to magically come back to life. Dismembered? No problem, a healing spell can fix you up. Corpse is charred? No problem, some other healing spell can help you. But this level of annihalation inflicted by another player, is that fair? My inquiry is: How can I bring my Paladin back? There is no realistic or possible way he could possibly be brought back. I'm frustrated. I really liked my Paladin. But it'd be kind of odd to see him walking around a week from now after he had been killed by tentacles, burnt by fire, and impaled through the heart by a wooden stake. I have to admit I enjoyed the roleplaying up until the point I learned my character would -need- to die for the good of everyone else. Hopefully by posting here I'll get some very cleverly tailored excuses.

Receiving a negative level from a vampire is not the same as having it bite you. Vampires have slam attacks that deal negative levels. Their bite deals CON drain, and they only bite as part of a grapple. (Since grapple doesn't exist in NWN this means they only bite when a DM says so.)

Anyway, you don't die until your negative levels equal your actual levels, so unless you are level 1, it takes more than one negative level to kill a character.

Without going into the whole mechanics of vampires (I am running a vampire plot and prefer that players find out the mechanics in-game if it can be helped) you were at very little risk of becoming a vampire spawn unless you actually died from the negative level. Even if you die, there are ways to prevent you from rising as a vampire/vampire spawn without destruction of your body. Ignorant peasants may not (probably aren't) aware of these means though.

Even if your body is destroyed and your corpse burned to ashes, you can be Resurrected. If you had become a vampire, it would be a little more complicated but that wasn't the case so isn't relevant at this point. No character death is permanent on FRC unless the player chooses for the character to stay dead or the player is being banned from the server anyway. When you're ready for your character to come back, it is easy enough to say that Merriss (the druid at the Silvanus temple in Isinhold) found out about this paladin's wrongful death and was willing to aid in his return to life. (Isinhold has literally gone to war against vampires in the past, they have a serious concern and need every paladin they can get.)

[Munroe]

Oh, additionally, if you were talking about Damien in the crypt, he can't make more vampires. I'd explain it all, but I rather prefer that not everyone knows everything about how vampires work.

[Munroe]

I modified your subject so I can find this thread more easily by thread name.

[Pookey]

I'd like to comment that I find it very distasteful as a DM for players to mutilate a corpse in such a way that the dead PC cannot be raised. Far too many times a player has said to me, "I like my character, but can't see any way to bring them back after this."

Folks, this is the height of discourtesy to other players. No one else has the right to decide if a PC is perma killed, but by burning, maiming, cutting off heads, etc, the player is trying to make that choice for the other player, and this is just wrong.

[ShadowCatJen]

We'll shove aside the mistake the person who said "yes" to you for now and should root it down to this:

For things like Vampirism, Lycanthropy, Domination, or anything that would change your PC in a drastic matter? Consult a DM, because that is something only a DM should oversee. That isn't anything a player should be able to decide for themselves as it requires some form of DM or NPC intervention.

Next, I completely agree with Pookey, it is NOT the right of other PCs to decide to Perma Kill your character. It isn't even the DM crews right. YOU are the only one allowed to make that choice for yourself. The other players involved in this situation were horribly remiss in doing to your character what they did.

Please don't argue here about what was IC for the situation, because everyone involved should have kept the OOC consideration of the enjoyment of all players involved. You find an IC reason why the PCs wouldn't just kill/slay/mutilate the "vamp" PC and find another solution that didn't involve death.

At the same vein, Templar, you do not always have to go with the compunctions of what everyone says is the way to go. If you felt not right about it, there is nothing wrong with stopping things and saying "No, I'm sorry, I'm not enjoying what this could do to my character, can we stop and change it?"

And, if someone flat out tells you "no" after that, then you take logs and contact a DM. Cause, once again, no one has that right.

I'd say consider this all a lesson learned after a DM helps you get your character back on track. Don't decide to have things like vampirism, demonic control, lycanthropy and the like without DM supervision.

[Rook]

I whole heartily agree with what DM Pookey and ShadowCatJen have said.

The #1 rule is "to have fun, but not at the expense of others."
Come on people. Don't make it difficult for others to play here.

[Deleted]

I feel the same way, and I think that some players overlook the fact that what they do to your character might be fun for them, it isn't for you.

Take your roleplay seriously enough to make it immersive to those around you, but, don't take it to the point that it would make someone feel like they need to take extra steps in order to overcome the death.

I can't even remember how many times I've seen players do this type of thing to another player, and then some of them will even argue with you that 'a raise won't work on this, you need true ressurection' after they have emoted defiling your corpse

Lighten up people. Save these type of drastic measures for NPCs. There is no need to lop off a PCs head, shove holy wafers in his mouth, then burn the body and teleport it to the four corners of the multiverse!

[ShadowCatJen]

Of course, this isn't answering his question on how to go about fixing it. Usually for this sort of situation some Divine Intervention is required.

Ah! Templar, what god does your character follow? From what I'm reading your PC willing went to his death in order to stop the vampirism. Any goodly diety looking in on that and seeing that sort of dedication would very much grant that follower a new lease on life.

If done right it could make your PC an even more stalwart follower of whatever god it is.

[ancientempathy]

Mmm...wafers. I've a whole box of full of'm.

Would be nice to know the party involved.

Feel free to PM someone on the DM team that detail please, Templar, if you wish.

[lordtemplar32]

ShadowCatJen: My Paladin worships Ilmater.

Thanks for all of your responses. It's been a learning experience for myself, everyone and hopefully those who choose to use such power.

Also thanks to DM Munroe, I wasn't sure what to call this thread to begin with... besides General Inquiry .

I suppose divine intervention is the most viable option to choose without it being overly ridiculous.

[The Supreme Watcher]

I was the one that told him the vampire had bitten him, unknowing of the division between level/con drain.

I only did it with the best intentions of RP in mind, and when I found another character that seemed interested in helping... well, I handed my patient over.

I was quite frankly appalled when I heard they killed the paladin. I found it to be in bad taste and just discourteous to another player.

I apologize for the initial mistake, and I'm sorry for the resulting death of the character.

[Lokarn]

I saw the "killing" part of the end of this story, it seemed odd to me at the time as a player, IC another story.

However, what I saw was him come into town, a female character say, oh it's the vampire bitten man. [Here I was like , oh cool these guys got some DM interaction] Tho a mage, I forget the name asked him if he was able to be cured. The response was: "No, he wouldn't take my coin, he didn't think I had enough." At that point the mage said "then I will have to destroy you."

Again I was thinking.... hmm here, in the middle of Isenhold? with witnesses? ..... Ballsy... let's see what happens.

But the [ now I know] Paladin uses his emote wand, I believe takes "Pray" position and says, I'm ready, do it.

At this point the mage calmly cast's the black tentacles spell... Horrid Writhing I think [sp] and our paladin is insta killed, now there were several characters about, none of which IC I had any interaction to determine their .... outlook on life. [ alignment] So I let it be, pladin released to res at the healer.

I believe I do have a log of it, Bentin would have most certainly saw it, as it happened right infront of the Gryphon, and Bentin even may have been at the tree when the spell was cast.

My initial conclusion is that an evil character took advantage of an ignorant moment in a good character's life and used it to kill him. After the paladin died, the female character who first noticed him said something about needing to burn a vampire's corpse to make the death stick. I don't think it had much to do with ill intent at all really. Perhaps she was also misunderstanding the actual situation, she tossed some alchemist fire on him. the mage was handed a wooden stake by someone, I forget. and the mage stabbed him.... Possibly before the fire was thrown on him.

PM me if you want my logs.

*edited a spelling error*

[Pookey]

If another DM hasn't already asked, please send me the log. Click on the email icon to the left and it will get to me. I prefer the text file sent as an attachment. Killing the paladin in the middle of the village is a problem.

Folks, here's another pet peeve of mine.... Ignoring the visible and invisible NPCs just because a DM isn't there to possess them.

Visible NPCs first. If you wouldn't do this in front of them when a DM is possessing them, you shouldn't be doing it when a DM isn't. They see what you're doing, they hear what you're saying. Please act like it.

Invisible NPCs next. We cannot put an NPC in the mod for every single person who would actually exist in Cormyr and the Western Reach. That's why when you go to Redmist and Suzail, you only see a few NPCs. There are more. These are crowded cities and you are walking the streets being jostled by large numbers of people (for the most part, they will probably give a bit of a berth to adventurers who are armed and known to be insane by definition). We just don't have them actually walking around because if we put the several thousand people who actually live in these cities into the mod, it would bog down and crash all the time. On the roads between cities, there are likely a few people traveling in the same or opposite directions from you as well.

I'm asking the players to keep this in mind when you roleplay. The older hands don't need to be told for the most part, but there are a lot of new players here now, and you should keep it in mind.

In this specific instance, for example, the mage casting the Evard's Black Tentacles would have been arrested first for casting the spell in the bounds of the village, second for murder. Casting harmful spells in Isinhold is a crime. Anyone who assisted in killing the paladin would have been arrested for assisting.

Now, I don't like to just leave things without suggesting an alternative. What I would have done in this situation, believing the paladin was infected with vampirism but was apparently willing to do whatever was necessary to rid himself of it, was take him to a local temple with a reputation for dealing with undead and seek help. I would have bound him and carried him to a temple of Lathander or perhaps Kelemvor, for example. I would have left him in their care and tried to get in touch with a DM, either while logged on or through a PM on the forums, explained the situation and asked for some intervention to resolve the matter. I would have gone to DM Munroe as my first choice, since he is the resident vampire expert on the DM team.

That's one possible alternative. Another would be to tie him up on the ground and wait for dawn. See if he suddenly burns up in the sunlight. If yes, then he was a vampire, if not, he didn't get the infection (luckily).

Right there you have two possible ways to resolve the situation without killing anyone and forcing a respawn. I'm sure there are a lot of other ways that wouldn't have involved killing the player character and wouldn't have involved forcing a respawn or making the player feel like they had no option but to permakill their character.

I urge all players to seriously consider the fun of the other person before you act. It isn't just the DM job to make sure people are having fun. In Pen and Paper D&D it is the players' job (as well as the DM's) to ensure everyone is having a good time. In FRC online, it is also the players' job.

[kayla]

First I would like to respond to a person who was actually there. The first part of the lady saying there he is a vampire...when he walked into town... you first off came into a situation that was just repeating itself yet again. The man this Jerto approached me alone in town and asked if i was a cleric or knew of one. I told him no but there is a temple on the hill or perhaps in the inn. I said why what do you need? He then said i was attacked by a vampire. I said oh he then said it bite me on the neck i think I'm infected. another person passing by heard this and said a vampire... I then turned said how long ago oh its been awhile and i was like great hes infect. i ran to Bentin and tried to notify him and no response... i then even went to the gong to alert anyone of an infected man walking about town. The man then proceeded to leave town. Fast forward now to the witness a man comes into town and I am standing there again and yet again he has not gone to the temple found a cleric and still talking about being bite by a vampire. I first off say hes be infected cause that what he told me prior. The group of people there say well have to take him to the temple to get looked at. Ic of course I would believe the infection is more lingering than anyone since i spoke to him earlier then anyone there Adan therefore thought as my character would this guy could be. I follow them to the temple in hiding and appear away form them saying you know he is infected. Ic believe anyone infected would have obviously seek out a cure if one wanted one . Leave the temple thinking great they can deal with it and go back to business as usual . yet here he comes yet again still not cured still talking about being bite yet again . The mage valen and Serion both then say bite huh? The jerto fella goes on about it for awhile. So serion says heres stake wish to cure yourself and lays one on the ground. Then at a point says okay fine the only way to redeem myself and knells and says go ahead do it. Valen casted a spell black tentacles appeared the man perished. Said at that point if he is undead thought only fire works.

The talk of I throw fire never did that a complete lie. Fully expect the logs to reflect that and find that people can make interpretations or statements wrong but never throw any fire on anyone. Never had a conflict even yet with a player for that matter. The talk of alignment what did alignment have to do with any of it not like someone said hes a holy paladin or something lets burn him evil is here. Never even knew the man or his alignment and to throw it under some clause like evil folk out to get good folk thats complete lie. Seems this going through places like wild fire with people asking what happened and the story keeps changing to something else . So people said just let it go but now my name is tarnished by spread of untrue words and events that taken place with details and conversation left out and peoples own point of view added and distorting the true facts. Rather was enjoying the roleplay at a point till seemed he wanted to be more a martyr then anything else . Which point was more then fine to let it be left at the temple.

Certainly do not go outta my way to upset any other player and would not just for the enjoyment of ruining another person's time spent playing.

not sure what more have to say about it cause its irritating to see people print things that are untrue and walk away leaving nothing but a mess for other people to sift through to find the truth.

Miss kayla.....

[Munroe]

I'm inclined to think the whole situation was just a matter of in-character panic and nobody was out to hurt anyone out-of-character. Both the character killed and the character doing the killing thought it was an appropriate course at the time.

I know that Pookey has requested logs. Please send him your logs as per his request. Beyond that, I think it's probably best to let this matter go. If any disciplinary action is necessary, that will be determined from any logs submitted and appropriate parties will be notified and addressed. If you don't hear anything from a DM about it, no news is good news.

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread. If someone feels s/he has something that absolutely "must" be posted in the thread, please send it to a DM.