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Post by Dobian on May 1, 2011 20:05:51 GMT -5
I fully understand Kalbearn's comments regarding the mechanics. Aside from not being able to cast light spells, for certain schools (like necromancy) shadow weave spells are more powerful than weave spells, and for other schools (like evocation) they are weaker. Obviously NWN game mechanics do support this. And like he said about the wild magic areas (like the Marsh of Tun), a shadow weaver shouldn't be affected. So on game mechanics alone, I agree that it is not realistic for someone to say that they are using the shadow weave in NWN. Maybe one day there will be a next gen D&D game that includes this in the mechanics, one can only dream.
As far as knowledge of, or experimenting with, in story if not in the game itself, I see nothing wrong with this. If you have written a character with a very detailed background that explains their connection to the Sharrans (in Salina's case, both in her background story and story told in the game via rp and DM events), then it is unrealistic to say that she would not have knowledge of the shadow weave. I personally have rarely mentioned or emoted about the shadow weave in the game, as it hasn't been a critical part of her story. And it's not like when you cast a spell you yell out, "here comes the shadow weave!." I brought the shadow weave into it only because you simply can't have a character who's a mage and a Sharran without some mention of it. So yes, she has knowledge of it, if not mastery of it. I never documented anywhere that she was a shadow weave master. But I have said that she has dabbled with it. And I have no issue with the case that even a shadow weaver wouldn't go around tapping into it and casting spells that would leave a trace others could recognize, and draw attention to that mage. So any decision regarding the shadow weave does not impact my gameplay, but for the integrity of the character I will maintain that there has been enough story and roleplay to justify her knowledge of it.
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Post by dmthann on May 1, 2011 20:06:24 GMT -5
However, I think on this very thread it's listed as not being allowed. Do you think it might be better to post it in the rules section, rather than under "Roleplay Ideas, Suggestions, and Discussion?" More people looking for rules to follow might find it that way. Pretty sure it's going in there very soon. We do try to not have very hard set rules, but some times it's needed. We hope that we don't have to set up hard and fast rules, however you guys want to see more of these in writing. You just may get it in writing. Normally such things are referred to by the common sense rule as it sits. Somethings just are common sense. We can't identify every single thing that may come up. When we do find something that creates an issue when dealing with the rules, we address it as quickly as possible. This is a good example of just such a case. It will be addressed more, has been addressed at this point, and people simply don't take it well. Will it make a difference to those that want to play shadow weave casters if we write down the rule? I doubt it, as they feel slighted. No one is in trouble over any of this. It was just brought to the attention of the one of the players that they had an invalid rp caster choice. |
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Post by catmage on May 2, 2011 2:24:03 GMT -5
Rule #19 already covers why you cannot use the Shadow Weave. The reasons I believe this are as follows. 1c) Shadow weavers must have Shar's personal blessings and protections, less they go insane. IE, a DM would need to be involved. We as players cannot dictate any god's reactions. 1d) In FR Sources, access to the shadow weave is restricted to Shadow Adepts (a PrC that is not available here) or to selected high ranking clerics of Shar. 1e) Even in PnP, a player alone cannot dictate that they are a shadow weaver. Shar strictly controls who has and does not have access to the shadow weave. A player can strive to become a user, but still relies on a DM to determine whether the request is granted and to what effect. 1c) In FR Source, people can and do stumble upon the Shadow Weave Accidentally, as well as through trial and error study of the Shadow Weave(Lords of Darkness 123, sub bar "The Church and the Shadow Weave"). Shar directs her clerics not to act against those users until they have been explicitly directed by her, though if they act without asking first, she doesn't seem to mind 1d) In FR sources, the shadow weave is restricted to those who have the feat Shadow Weave Magic, which requires 13+ wisdom OR patron deity Shar. If you lack Shar as a patron, you take 2 points of permanent wisdom drain that can not be healed without an atonement spell from a Sharran cleric and conversion to Shar as a patron deity. See also the response to point 1c. 1e) Same points as above, with the notice that the DM does of course have final say. Not strictly relevant to the topic at hand, but just correcting a misconception on the forces of evil. I don't care much about the shadow weave being allowable. I've known over servers to just play pretend with who has access to the shadow weave, but it's DM preference. |
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Post by Dobian on May 2, 2011 11:09:15 GMT -5
When we do find something that creates an issue when dealing with the rules, we address it as quickly as possible. This is a good example of just such a case. It will be addressed more, has been addressed at this point, and people simply don't take it well. Will it make a difference to those that want to play shadow weave casters if we write down the rule? I doubt it, as they feel slighted. No one is in trouble over any of this. It was just brought to the attention of the one of the players that they had an invalid rp caster choice. I have said that I don't have a problem with Salina not using the shadow weave. I just wanted to know know the reasons why it is not allowed, one of which I already suspected (mechanics). This is good information and I remember reading it myself some time ago, though I can't remember where. |
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Post by Lady Frost on Sept 12, 2013 21:44:35 GMT -5
This is still not listed anywhere in the rules. Expecting someone to just assume that "zero knowledge" is known upon creation isn't a good line of thinking and telling them they should have seen it here isn't either. Rules need to be in the Rules section.
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Post by Munroe on Sept 12, 2013 23:32:43 GMT -5
Actually the "zero knowledge" part is out-of-date. With the return of the city of Shade, and the appearance of a couple other Netherese flying cities in or above Faerun since then, "Shadow Weave Magic" is more of a known entity. However, it's still not available to player characters. This DM Q&A is also relevant: DM Q&A: Setting: City of ShadeNot every decision the DMs have made is going to appear in the codified rules. We have a Q&A forum. That means there are a lot of answers there too. The nice thing about the new Proboards v5 is that it makes searching the DM Q&A pretty easy, so if you want to know about something that you haven't seen listed somewhere else, it's pretty easy to search the DM Q&A (or other forums) to see if it's been brought up before. And if it hasn't, that's a good place to ask too. I bumped the threads to bring it to attention again specifically. |
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Post by Dobian on Sept 13, 2013 13:05:16 GMT -5
I adjusted Salina's back story regarding her knowledge of the shadow weave ages ago to bring it in line with the server rules. In general it would be fun to bring a little Shar back to the server through some DM events, spice things up with a bit of that "black magic".  |
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Post by MTGPackFoils on Sept 18, 2013 17:52:28 GMT -5
So taking spell focus in Enchantment, Illusion, and Necromancy...and never casting spells outside of those schools...AND having the required stats or patron can't be used as a work around for the NWN engine?
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Post by Dobian on Sept 22, 2013 10:07:53 GMT -5
It's not a mechanical reason, it's just that in the lore you have to be high up in the ranks of the church to be allowed to use the shadow weave, and the server doesn't want to give that kind of implied power to a PC.
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