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Post by DM Grizwald on Jun 21, 2006 0:15:21 GMT -5
I was just curious as to what the intimidate roll does and to what kind of power it can have. I've rolled it alot with my new character cause he's big ugly and mean and to the people i try to intimidate nothing seems to happen, infact they seem to grow more balls. I always thought if you rolled it high enough the person would run off and start crying to mommy . I'm just curious as to what others have to say.
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Post by Talus on Jun 21, 2006 1:33:05 GMT -5
Intimidate and Persuade. In my opinion two of the toughest skills to RP I never know when to use them or how to react to them. I am sure the first response you will get from most folk will be. Rolls will not dictate how my character acts. Thus trying to negate the skill. that is my opinion. Intimidate to me if it beats a will check or something should have the same effect as fear. Or at least have them cowaring before you. I don't know what the correct answer is, but that is my two bits.
ps. Not to hijack a thread, but I would like to know what folk think of persuade as well.
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Post by Dachshund on Jun 21, 2006 1:53:41 GMT -5
I've seen a lot of players use the "No PvP" of the Regal Griffon as an excuse to use the game mechanics to act very much ooc. In a No PvP area I find it very hard to actually make true any threats an intimidate roll may cause. How many of us haven't seen a player flaunting their weapons at the Griffon? *looks at Talus and thinks of yesterday* My character has no points in intimidate, but that doesn't mean he cannot intimidate someone. Unsheathing his blade *should* prove his intent to most players but again, in a No PvP area it's useless. I also think that one's level should be taken into acount. How would a level 20+ mage act to an intimidate roll by a level 1 Half-orc barbarian? *shrugs* Just my thoughts.
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Post by fimbulvinter on Jun 21, 2006 4:24:57 GMT -5
Well, I know that I am one who would likely allow the role to play 'some' factor in the ensuing RP, but it would also depend on what else you were doing to actually 'be' intimidating. I've been playing a character that seems to be doing fairly well on the intimidation factor, and I've yet to make a single skill check. (In fact, I'd hate to work my 'intimidation routine' on someone, and then turn around and roll a 1 on my skill check!) I'd say that level difference would play a factor as well as the actual dice roll, but the best way to intimidate IMO is to RP it, and then back it up with an attack or two if and when you have to.
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Post by Keetena on Jun 21, 2006 6:00:07 GMT -5
In a no-pvp area like the Inn I see this way: "hey, if you do something here the purple guys will know cause we will tell and you will be in trouble, true trouble", I say yes, it's very roleplay not do open threats in a no-pvp area, my two cents and personal opinion
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Jun 21, 2006 10:07:06 GMT -5
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Boogiedk
Old School
A mans home is his castle - But it shouldnt have to be his fortress
Posts: 252
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Post by Boogiedk on Jun 21, 2006 10:31:08 GMT -5
Intimidation is useless skill against another player because they are players . . . Free will , will allways kick in and a person can freely say " I´m not afraid of you " . . . Its only of use in PvE situations My 2 cents ( or Øre would be more appropiate , since Ive never seen a cent ) Be good B.
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Post by Dachshund on Jun 21, 2006 12:54:06 GMT -5
My 2 cents ( or Øre would be more appropiate , since Ive never seen a cent ) Hehe.
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Post by DM Grizwald on Jun 21, 2006 12:59:14 GMT -5
I would say either will or a cencentration check should counter a intimidate or persuade roll. Persuade i would say should have just as much meaning as the intimidation roll. Just like a bluff has. I think all rolls are important and taken into account but also making sure there are good rp reasons for rolling and also rp'ing them out properly
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Post by soulfien on Jun 21, 2006 13:40:55 GMT -5
Persuade pretty much is like haggling. It can't be used to get a brand new car for free, but it could be used to knock off a few thousand. Bluff can be used to gain doubt in a situation. It can't be used to tell flat out bold faced lies, but it can be used to instill enough doubt that the PC can gain a bit more time before they find enoguh proof to convict him. Intimidate is merely an advantage. It can't be sued to make people curl up into a ball at your presence or run away screaming, but it can be used to make sure they'll think twice before attacking you. doesn't mean they won't think twice For instance, you intimidate a wizard and he backs down, but the moment you give him a chance he cast stoneskin of another defensive spell to make your blade useless against him. And that's as much merit as I'll ever give those skills i.e. the Player's handbook doesn't have rules for having 100 points in them- only rules for pass or fail. Bluff and Persuade are not as powerful as a dominate person spell and should not be RP'ed that way. Intimidate is not as powerful as a fear spell and should not be RP'ed that way.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Jun 21, 2006 17:36:57 GMT -5
The way I personally treat it is if I can't decide which way I'd have my character act in a situation then I'll ask for a roll. Say for instance some guy comes up to Myn trying to flirt and convince her to have a little one night stand with her. Problem is the character is crass with no sense of style at all. He can roll that Persuade to his heart's content, but automatically Myn is going to give the guy a thumbs down for the way he comes off. His crassness and lack of being genuinely charming would give him a -40 to his roll anyway. Now say someone is trying to sell Myn a decent rapier (hint, hint) and the price is reasonable, but it will put a goodly dent in Myn's coin purse. I as a player am not fully certain so then I would ask for a persuade roll, especially if the person has been fairly convincing. If someone comes up with very little in the way of RP and just rolls Intimidate to try to have my character quiver in fear with really no solid reason then I'm fairly much going to ignore the roll. Remember, it's Roleplaying, not Rollplaying.
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Post by DM Grizwald on Jun 21, 2006 19:26:10 GMT -5
The way I personally treat it is if I can't decide which way I'd have my character act in a situation then I'll ask for a roll. Say for instance some guy comes up to Myn trying to flirt and convince her to have a little one night stand with her. Problem is the character is crass with no sense of style at all. He can roll that Persuade to his heart's content, but automatically Myn is going to give the guy a thumbs down for the way he comes off. His crassness and lack of being genuinely charming would give him a -40 to his roll anyway. Now say someone is trying to sell Myn a decent rapier (hint, hint) and the price is reasonable, but it will put a goodly dent in Myn's coin purse. I as a player am not fully certain so then I would ask for a persuade roll, especially if the person has been fairly convincing. If someone comes up with very little in the way of RP and just rolls Intimidate to try to have my character quiver in fear with really no solid reason then I'm fairly much going to ignore the roll. Remember, it's Roleplaying, not Rollplaying. I like that, well said Sadowcatjen.
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on Jun 21, 2006 21:40:31 GMT -5
My opinion on intimidate is this: A person who puts points into intimidation is someone who is good at presenting themself as being someone you dont want to mess with. If I make an intimidation check, and it is high, that means I did a good job (for whatever reason) of looking like I might have the upper hand in the current situation. This skill is NOT useless with other players. Only with bad RPers. Failing to resist an intimidate check does NOT mean that you are cowering, it means, at best, you should try to take a neutral position from an RP standpoint. This character has just presented himself in a manner that is telling your character he has a card up his sleave. That card might be seven feet of muscle, or a sinister looking wand on his belt, or a referance to twelve buddies hiding in the parking lot... it doesnt matter.. the point, as RPers, we should try to honor the skills bioware has put forth for us to choose from by not making them useless by ignoring them.
On the other hand, that doesnt mean that you dont need to RP just because you have the skill. As players using the skills, we need to supply the reasons why the others should be intimidated when we make the check. Here is an example of something that could be a bluff or an intimidate check depending on the circumstances;
*casually slides a glance past you, into the shadows and gives a sly, knowing smile to whatever might lie within... then looks back with hard eyes. "Are you SURE thats your final decision...friend?" //intimidate: 17*
At this point, I would recomend using a will save, + level to resist the intimidate check (and counting in size differance) like Shadowcat recomended. Beating the check means your not bothered by the implied threat or bluff... but failing means that this character has presented his subtle threat in a manner which has you second guessing. You should play as though you have just walked into a situation you are not certain you can win in a fight. Not terrified, or even neccessarily afraid... just, uncertain and thus careful.
One exception to this... say your out adventuring with a large warrior, and you see him fight. Lets say he turns out to be a complete cream-puff, and your character is 100% certain that he can take the big guy in a fight, then obviously when the big guy threatens to pulversize you, your NOT going to be intimidated, no matter what the big push-over rolls. Intimidation works off of the "unknown"
The fact that resisting is Will based is good for a couple reasons... for one, mages (who have high wil saves) are already aware that fist fighting is not going to get them anywhere, so they are accustomed to avoiding physical combat in favor of magical attacks, and thus are less likley to be intimidated by physical threats or posturing. They are also smarter, so bluff based intimidations are less likley to work as they are deep thinkers. Clerics and Paladins have gods on their sides, and thus are not easily frightened (high Will saves)
Fighters and Barbarians who have a low Will save know that if it comes to a fight, its going to be crossed blades, and they also know from experiance that its best to not assume they are going to win a melee fight with anyone before they have tested themselves against that enemy or seen them fight, this would make them more vulnerable to taking the cautious path in a situation like that (failed Will save) Rogues are probably similar in that context.
Monks are crazy bastards, so who knows. After all, they get into sword fights without bloody swords.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Jun 22, 2006 10:20:21 GMT -5
I think it is third level which a paladin gains immunity to fear ... which makes him/her immune to intimidate.
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Driderman
Old School
Off-topic conversationalist extraordinaire!
Posts: 357
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Post by Driderman on Jun 23, 2006 8:26:16 GMT -5
My opinion: Roleplay it all, throw the dicebag in the trash!
Of course, that would be in a perfect world...
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Post by Eons of Recluse on Jun 23, 2006 10:03:59 GMT -5
Intimidate can make your opponent run away screaming... if you are lvl 21+ barbarian with terrifying rage. All you need to do is get mad
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on Jun 23, 2006 12:04:50 GMT -5
Let me put it this way. If you threw the d20 away for the purpose of striking, do you think anyone would ever miss? Ill bet the % of criticle hits would go up a bit.
Not using the dice bag is just silly because everyone will RP their character as being completely fearless of everything. Easy to do when your safe behind your monitor. Most players dont play a rational appreciation for the fact that they can die, mostly because... they cant. But blast it all, your character doesnt know that! That is why we have to use skills such as bluff and intimidate and respect what they are for. Modifiers you have on these skills are no differant than the modifiers you have to your attack roll. The better you are at something, the more likley chance you have for success.
A great example of this: Once, Manshin and some others were preparing for a difficult adventure, and a low level character asked if he could come. OOC, I knew that he was far to low a level and would just use up our raise dead scrolls, so Manshin said to him: "If you are skillful enough, yes. I am going to strike you, if you can avoid my attack, then you can come." I began emoting my attack, to which he immediatly replied something along the lines of: "Easily deflects the attack in a flurry of blindingly fast spinning steel" I ignored that, and used my dice bag to roll a 1d20 and add my attack modifier. I then sent him a tell asking him if his AC was better than 43. Naturally, he said no. I then explained to him that he was infact hit. The point is, we all have inflated ideas of how cool and rock n' rollish our characters are, but our perfect architypes dont always reflect the skills and abilities our character should possess by their scores. If you want a character who is fearless... put skill points and feats into something to relfect that... dont just say it.
Another example: In my PnP campain, one of my players got shot in the thigh by a long bow. It did quite a lot of damage relative to his HP. When I asked him what he wanted to do, he replied that he was going to charge the archer. Well, by the rules, there is nothing to stop him from doing this, but I made him roll a Save (either will or fort... cant remember) to see if his "character" could endure the pain of charging with an arrow stuck in his leg. It was difficult and he failed, and thus opted to get cover. Much more realistic.
All of us, if given the choice would say about our characters: "For Blore Ironballs, fear is never an option, and pain never really has affected him. Infact, he kind of likes it... it tickles a bit to have his entrails spilled all over... well, if he wasnt immune to being cut that is." Since we cant have a world full of people like this, we have a dicebag and the ability to choose where your ranks and feats go.
To counter the whole "its just a game" idea, well, yes it is, but as any magician could tell you, the one thing that makes an illusion truly great, is making it believable. By trying to make FRC as realistic as we can, we can make it richer and more fullfilling to play.
Manshin
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Post by Talus on Jun 23, 2006 12:17:14 GMT -5
Let me put it this way. If you threw the d20 away for the purpose of striking, do you think anyone would ever miss? Ill bet the % of criticle hits would go up a bit. Not using the dice bag is just silly because everyone will RP their character as being completely fearless of everything. Easy to do when your safe behind your monitor. Most players dont play a rational appreciation for the fact that they can die, mostly because... they cant. But blast it all, your character doesnt know that! That is why we have to use skills such as bluff and intimidate and respect what they are for. Modifiers you have on these skills are no differant than the modifiers you have to your attack roll. The better you are at something, the more likley chance you have for success. A great example of this: Once, Manshin and some others were preparing for a difficult adventure, and a low level character asked if he could come. OOC, I knew that he was far to low a level and would just use up our raise dead scrolls, so Manshin said to him: "If you are skillful enough, yes. I am going to strike you, if you can avoid my attack, then you can come." I began emoting my attack, to which he immediatly replied something along the lines of: "Easily deflects the attack in a flurry of blindingly fast spinning steel" I ignored that, and used my dice bag to roll a 1d20 and add my attack modifier. I then sent him a tell asking him if his AC was better than 43. Naturally, he said no. I then explained to him that he was infact hit. The point is, we all have inflated ideas of how cool and rock n' rollish our characters are, but our perfect architypes dont always reflect the skills and abilities our character should possess by their scores. If you want a character who is fearless... put skill points and feats into something to relfect that... dont just say it. Another example: In my PnP campain, one of my players got shot in the thigh by a long bow. It did quite a lot of damage relative to his HP. When I asked him what he wanted to do, he replied that he was going to charge the archer. Well, by the rules, there is nothing to stop him from doing this, but I made him roll a Save (either will or fort... cant remember) to see if his "character" could endure the pain of charging with an arrow stuck in his leg. It was difficult and he failed, and thus opted to get cover. Much more realistic. All of us, if given the choice would say about our characters: "For Blore Ironballs, fear is never an option, and pain never really has affected him. Infact, he kind of likes it... it tickles a bit to have his entrails spilled all over... well, if he wasnt immune to being cut that is." Since we cant have a world full of people like this, we have a dicebag and the ability to choose where your ranks and feats go. To counter the whole "its just a game" idea, well, yes it is, but as any magician could tell you, the one thing that makes an illusion truly great, is making it believable. By trying to make FRC as realistic as we can, we can make it richer and more fullfilling to play. Manshin Well said.
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Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Jun 23, 2006 12:19:14 GMT -5
I'm going to repeat what I said in a post on this subject back in 2004.
There are many skills that are in NWN that do not have the appropriate counter skill available in NWN. Those skills are for use with NPC's. There is no systems in NWN that fairly allows them to be used against PC's.
I'm locking this thread.
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