Druids!

[kenny26]

as some of you might know i've found an old char, Kruhl, and started playing it again whenever i wanna take a break from jargo.
Kruhl is a druid, and there are many things i've been asking myself about how to play a druid properly.

needless to say the druids in nwn and the ones in dnd have several big differences.
first of all, druids can wear light and medium armour, inlucding chainshirt and chainmails...

this i dismissed as being just plain wierd even though it would greatly benefit my ac to wear some of these armours. i just stuck with the hide armour and maybe will be switching to a leather armour if i can one day reach a Dex score high enough.
this is my first question, 'cause when i asked a couple of months ago on DM channel, i got the reply it was still being discussed.
can druids wear metallic armour or not? does the DMs have a definitive answer to that one?

second, what weapons may a druid use?
the druidic weapon proficiencies match those of dnd very closely and that's not what bothers me. what bothers me is that a druid simply needs the feats and then he can use any weapon he likes, unlike dnd.
my char is an elf and i can use longswords and bows.
so far i've been sticking to my scimitar, mostly because i think it looks cool, and i really am a sucker for that great threat range... it's almost like a rapier.
so i ask: what do the DMs believe is proper RP as far as druids and their weapons go? should we try to stick to dnd there as well?

thirdly...
i have an animal companion which is a great strength for any druid to have. i picked the most vicious of the animals available to match kruhl's temper, a dire wolf.
now i was in a party and we were chasing kobolds (how joyful it is to re-live the low levels on FRC ;D ), and my dire wolf was helping out.
we suffered a lag-spike and evenything froze for a few seconds. when things started moving again, we were losing lots of hp, but we made it. my direwolf didn't however...
i then got a tell "very bad form to let your animal companion die as a druid".
i know it wasn't meant offensively and when i thought about it, it did make sense. a druid shouldn't let his animal companion die in combat.
then again, there are no XP penalties ascociated with this like there is for familiar death, and it's clear that the druid's animal companion was meant to aid him in combat (so the druids won't be left complete in the dust by the next cleric).
so the last question is: what should i do in case of animal compaion death?
should i feel free to summon my animal companion again the next time if he dies in combat? or should i not use it in combat?

thanks for your time and i hope we can have a good debate about druids and how their abilities should be roleplayed on FRC.

[Booze Hound]

#1 & #2 I dunno...

#3...this is kind of a tricky thing that I had to think about a lot too as a ranger. the ole animal companion. as a ranger, it's not as important to have the companion in combat as it is for a druid, but still quite nice at your lower levels. But it dying so frequently is one of the reasons I switched to a hawk so I could use it as a pure RP tool, and not such a battle tool. But a druid needs that extra tank muscle as much as he can get. And the game simply isn't set up, IMO, fo ryou to be able to easily control, and manipulate the companion to keep it safe all of the time. to perhaps it could be treated as less of a single creature than as more of a beast that you find in the wilds and temporarily get to aid you. I dunno, I might be totally maiking stuff up here, but hear me out. You know instead of calling your wolf "Fluffy" and everytime you summon it refer to it as Fluffy, maybe RP that you have stumbled across one in the wilds and have convinced it to help out...then when it "dies" it decided to "run off". Then you could add to that by maybe only summoning the companion when outdoors. or not using it in town dungeons (which would suck for the lowbie druid in Isin I know, I am just brain storming) and maybe sometimes he doesn't run into a wolf, and doesn't get the chance to befriend one. it could spice things up a bit teach you to fight 2 different ways with Kruhl (who I like btw). anyway, that was just a quick brainstorm.

of course with the little beast boy, he could always switch to wolf form and become Vind's new animal companion LOL! "Kruhl! Fetch!" ;D

[kenny26]

LMAO ;D
good luck making that beast do tricks...

anyhow, i think you have some good ideas with the animal companion.
you mentioned at one point that you could pretend the beast got hurt and ran of.
i think that idea could work with the same animal on several occasions since he'd be out there somewhere and the druid just has to find him again.

another could be to treat him as a summon. i dunno, but seeing how druids and even mages can actually summon animals like dire tigers with the summon creature spells, why not treat animal companions as summons too?
whenever it dies it is instantly ported back to the plane from which it was summoned (plane of nature or something if it excists in forgotten realms). then it may be called again the following day.

i know mooi likes to roleplay summoning the same hound archon each time.
but give me your input guys. what do you think?

[Kitiara]

kenny26 said:

i know mooi likes to roleplay summoning the same hound archon each time.
but give me your input guys. what do you think?

Not exactly true, if you should ask her about this now she will say: "Heck, I don't know. They all look the same to me. I just like the name Archy."
I actually don't think with this spell you get the same one everytime, and this is a planar ally, not a summon. A summon to me is just something you use as a tool and not something you really care about.
It does not say explicitely in the rules but shouldn't an animal companion be something your char actually bonded with? It does say it is a loyal companion and I think this should be the same the other way around. So playing that it's a different one each time to me is not correct, playing that it just ran away...hmmm...in case of a lag death that is acceptable. But you still would not put the animal in needless risk just like you would not do that to your friends.
But on the other hand, i know how it is to fight with a summon. I always try to keep the darn thing alive but when things get really bad, you cannot keep an eye on it all the time. I blink with my eyes and think: "Blast, he is dead again." The things just don't think for themselves but just keep fighting till the death instead of some common sense tactical retreat.
Perhaps you could just waist a Raise Dead scroll on it for good measure, or RP that you take the dead animal to Meriss and plead with him that he helps the poor wolf.

Anyway, is this leading to anything? Ehhrmmm....yes...don't treat it like a summon! And don't get it killed

[Thrym]

Dunno if advice from Auril Druids is welcome, but here are my 2 cents about this:

1) The Armor thing is not such a big thing as it might seem at first, as there is a nice material called Ironwood in DnD. Somehow the Ironwood items in NWN cost insane amounts of money, unlike in Pen and Paper iirc. They should not be that expensive actually.

Well, what I want to say is that I don't think anyone has a problem if you say your armor is made out of Ironwood instead of Metall. Just paint it brown or do it like I did with Jandor and just wear a hauberk out of Cloth/Leather over the thing and let the arms and legs actually be out of leather.

2) Well, I dunno exactly how the DM's see it, but I did it like I was used from Pen and Paper... Forgotten Realms druids may just use the usual Druid Weapons, and the favored one of their god (For example, Jandor used a battleaxe, Aurils favored Weapon, in addition to the druid weapons).

3) That's a bit tricky... I'd say every druid should decide on his own how to RP that, but I'll tell you how I did it. If I left town, I'd call Sturm (Jandors animal companion, the wolf that was... trying... to bite you in our fight in the bramblewood ), and RP he is coming from the direction of the next wood. Now my way to RP it if I call him after he dies might not work for all druids. FR Druids gain their spells from a god, and not from nature, though I have seen that many people seem to forget that or allmost ignore it. So... as you are a priest, you can bid your deity for something. When Sturm died and Jandor wanted to resummon him, I RP'd to pray to Auril to send him back so that I can continue my... holy work in her name.

Hope I could help a bit

P.S: About the thing with the Summon.... that is a bit different for each Spell, if I remember everything right:

Summon Monster:
Caster creates a being...as it was just created and will cease to exist after the spell ends, so no need to take special care of it.

Planar Ally:
Caster asks his deity to send him help... so it depends a bit. A good deity would certainly dislike it if you send its faithfull servants into suicide all the time, while an evil one most probably would not care.

Easy to confuse, the Arcane Version:
Planar Binding:
Caster calls a *specific* creature. So, as an example, while Mooi the Cleric might gain a different Archon each time with her ally Spell, Shazzar the wizard would each time get the same one unless he takes the time to find out the name of another one. That makes it rather clear: If Shazzar would send his archon into suicide all the time, he might not be very happy the next time he is called ;D

Shazzar

[soulfien]

okay, IK'm pretty much an authority on druids- I studied the whole NWN vs PnP to great extent. But feel free to disregard anything I say- it won't hurt my feelings, I promise. It's just my personal code.

Druids cannot wear metal armour. This includes metal shields (tower shields unless it's that big barn door or ironwood), they can't wear metal helms (there are a couple that look like wood and yes, the ugly stag helm is one, but not the only one), and they cannot use non-druidic weaponry. Elves can use bows, though- it's a natural hunting weapon and it violates no oaths. Take Zen Archery and become a master archer!

Now, Melieki does allow her druids to wear chainmail just like rangers can, but she's the only one.

About animal companions. I say take it into combat every chance you get. It's going to die- a lot. But if you take it into town you're attacked by everyone including staff and players alike as it's illegal to bring them into town. So, basically, you must use them only in hostile areas so in hostile areas you will perform your RP with the creature. And that means battle.

[Munroe]

Now, Melieki does allow her druids to wear chainmail just like rangers can, but she's the only one.

Mielikki allows her druids to use any weapons normally accessible to rangers. Since she's goddess of rangers this makes sense.

Druids become druids by taking an oath and part of that oath is not to use non-druidic weapons so I would say stick with your druid proficiency only unless you're a Mielikki druid. Oh, FR druids can also use the favoured weapon of their god, as someone said earlier. I never understood why bows weren't druid weapons though.

[The Supreme Watcher]

Come on, Munroe.

You have to cut a tree to pieces to make a bow!

[Thrym]

Minor correction to that age old post of mine above:

The caster of Planar Binding can also simply trap a random creature of a certain type.

[Munroe]

Oct 30, 2008 0:54:27 GMT -5 The Supreme Watcher said:

Come on, Munroe.

You have to cut a tree to pieces to make a bow!

And slings are made of leather, and clubs and quarterstaves are made of wood, and spears and shortspears are mostly made of wood.

In fact, most druid weapons are made primarily of plant and animal parts. The exceptions are the dagger and the scimitar.

A bow isn't made of metal but of wood, which means it comes from something that was living and therefore fits better in the druid list than the scimitar, for example. However, the main reason druids can't use a bow and can use a scimitar is simply because the design of the game dictates that druids use a different weapon set than most other characters. Most do use bows so they're off the list, and most don't use scimitars so they're on the list.

[The Supreme Watcher]

That wasn't really a serious post, but I'll follow up on yours.

Scimitars aren't as looked-over as I'd hope. Every Drizzt wanna be and his cousin has a pair of scimitars and make them, unfortunately, obvious.

And I would think that the reason clubs and spears and slings aren't banned is because these are things what happen naturally. A spear is a long thick stick, and a club could be a fallen limb.

A bow, however, is cut from a tree, and then bent to its master's will. In actuality, a bow is somewhat like throwing a tree on the rack: stretching and bending it continuously.

Slings are cut from leather, true. But druids are -not- against hunting. They are -not- against the killing of animals, and here's the kicker, they must use EVERY part of it. If they've already for 17 deerskin cloaks, forty-five suits of bear hide armor... why not make a sling out of it?

The tone on that last one was less aimed at Munroe and more aimed at druids that complain whenever I kill a deer and eat the bastard.

[acmeinc]

Oct 30, 2008 12:23:51 GMT -5 The Supreme Watcher said:

A bow, however, is cut from a tree, and then bent to its master's will. In actuality, a bow is somewhat like throwing a tree on the rack: stretching and bending it continuously.
.

A tree doesn't have to die to make a bow. Selectively pruning and removal of crossing branches can actually make a tree healthier. Limbs with viable wood as well as entire trees are blown over in storms, etc.

Some druids even advocate selective cutting of trees to prevent overgrowth in areas to promote better growth and health of the forest as a whole. They volunteer their expertise to guide settlers and loggers in maintaining the ballance and health of what nature provides.

Not all druids are eco terrorist.

[soulfien]

wow, how far down did you have to dig to find this?!?!

This is 3 years old!!!

Though it's fitting with all the new druids now

[Micteu]

This isn't Runescape.

[Munroe]

Oct 31, 2008 10:22:32 GMT -5 Micteu said:

This isn't Runescape.

I have no knowledge of Runescape. What is this a reference to?

[Micteu]

Oct 30, 2008 12:55:06 GMT -5 @acmeinc said:

Oct 30, 2008 12:23:51 GMT -5 The Supreme Watcher said:

A bow, however, is cut from a tree, and then bent to its master's will. In actuality, a bow is somewhat like throwing a tree on the rack: stretching and bending it continuously.
.

A tree doesn't have to die to make a bow. Selectively pruning and removal of crossing branches can actually make a tree healthier. Limbs with viable wood as well as entire trees are blown over in storms, etc.

Some druids even advocate selective cutting of trees to prevent overgrowth in areas to promote better growth and health of the forest as a whole. They volunteer their expertise to guide settlers and loggers in maintaining the ballance and health of what nature provides.

Not all druids are eco terrorist.

In Runescape, in order to get wood you have to start chopping down trees. Often the tree suddenly turns into a stump while you're chopping, indicating that you can't cut any more wood off it for a few minutes (when it will spontaneously turn back into a full-sized tree). If you have little experience in woodchopping, you might go through a whole tree to get one set of logs, which is then used for boyering. I have no idea how the boyering/fletching works, since you have to pay per month to be able to do that. I assume that a certain percentage of the wood you cut (which decreases as you gain experience in the skills) is lost when you try to shape it.

So. Often you have to chop an entire tree down. Maybe two or three, but again, this isn't Runescape.

[Munroe]

Alright. Thanks for explaining that.

[The Supreme Watcher]

*picks up his XXL Rod of Smiting and Destroying with Smiteness, and proceeds to crush Micteu with it for even daring to mention Runescape*

[urghargh]

Runescape...*eye twitch* I had a level 118 on Runescape...*eye twitch*

....Runescape make Urgh go crazy.

[soulfien]

Sept 18, 2005 6:08:51 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Now, Melieki does allow her druids to wear chainmail just like rangers can, but she's the only one.

Mielikki allows her druids to use any weapons normally accessible to rangers. Since she's goddess of rangers this makes sense.

Druids become druids by taking an oath and part of that oath is not to use non-druidic weapons so I would say stick with your druid proficiency only unless you're a Mielikki druid. Oh, FR druids can also use the favoured weapon of their god, as someone said earlier. I never understood why bows weren't druid weapons though.

Actually, as Neosanter pointed out- that oath applies to Armour only... NOT to weapons. A Druid is like a mage when it comes to weapons- if they learn to use it they can use it without fear of angering their god or goddess no matter who they worship. At least that's the PnP rules.

So ANY druid of ANY god can use ANY weapon

[EDM Neo]

Mar 16, 2009 6:07:48 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Sept 18, 2005 6:08:51 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Mielikki allows her druids to use any weapons normally accessible to rangers. Since she's goddess of rangers this makes sense.

Druids become druids by taking an oath and part of that oath is not to use non-druidic weapons so I would say stick with your druid proficiency only unless you're a Mielikki druid. Oh, FR druids can also use the favoured weapon of their god, as someone said earlier. I never understood why bows weren't druid weapons though.

Actually, as Neosanter pointed out- that oath applies to Armour only... NOT to weapons. A Druid is like a mage when it comes to weapons- if they learn to use it they can use it without fear of angering their god or goddess no matter who they worship. At least that's the PnP rules.

So ANY druid of ANY god can use ANY weapon

Just a note on this... while it seems clear that by the default PnP rules, there aren't any restrictions on weaponry... I'm presuming there's a reason a DM response to my Q&A post has taken a while. It's possible it contradicts some fluff (flavor text, story, etc, basically all the non-mechanics stuff) here or there, or that FR has different rules then default PnP.

For example, the NWN description of druids reads, in contradiction to the PnP rules:

Druids are divine spellcasters who receive their spells from nature, not the gods. They strive to live in harmony with the natural world, and hate anything that is not part of the natural cycle, especially aberrations and undead creatures. As they gain experience, they learn to take the shapes of animals and eventually of more powerful creatures. The strict oaths taken by every druid prohibit using weapons and armor outside their traditions.

I'd just give them time to finish discussing it before jumping the gun.

[Munroe]

Mar 16, 2009 6:07:48 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Sept 18, 2005 6:08:51 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Mielikki allows her druids to use any weapons normally accessible to rangers. Since she's goddess of rangers this makes sense.

Druids become druids by taking an oath and part of that oath is not to use non-druidic weapons so I would say stick with your druid proficiency only unless you're a Mielikki druid. Oh, FR druids can also use the favoured weapon of their god, as someone said earlier. I never understood why bows weren't druid weapons though.

Actually, as Neosanter pointed out- that oath applies to Armour only... NOT to weapons. A Druid is like a mage when it comes to weapons- if they learn to use it they can use it without fear of angering their god or goddess no matter who they worship. At least that's the PnP rules.

So ANY druid of ANY god can use ANY weapon

ANY druid of ANY god may be able to use ANY weapon (depending on what the DM Q&A says), but I was in line with source in my statement.

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 23.

Mielikki, who is famous for the number of druid/rangers who worship her, has more lenient spiritual oaths than most deities that druids worship in the Realms. Druids of Mielikki can use any of the standard armor or weapons that rangers normally use (all simple and martial weapons, all light and medium armor, and all shields) without violating their spiritual oaths.

As far as I know, the rules for 3.5e do not state that druids are forbidden from using non-druidic weapons so the statement that druids of Mielikki may use all simple and martial weapons seems superfluous.

As for the oath applying to armor only, not weapons, the penalty allies to armor only, not weapons. Details on what the oath actually says are sketchy at best.

[EDM Neo]

Mar 16, 2009 12:19:05 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Mar 16, 2009 6:07:48 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Actually, as Neosanter pointed out- that oath applies to Armour only... NOT to weapons. A Druid is like a mage when it comes to weapons- if they learn to use it they can use it without fear of angering their god or goddess no matter who they worship. At least that's the PnP rules.

So ANY druid of ANY god can use ANY weapon

ANY druid of ANY god may be able to use ANY weapon (depending on what the DM Q&A says), but I was in line with source in my statement.

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 23.

Mielikki, who is famous for the number of druid/rangers who worship her, has more lenient spiritual oaths than most deities that druids worship in the Realms. Druids of Mielikki can use any of the standard armor or weapons that rangers normally use (all simple and martial weapons, all light and medium armor, and all shields) without violating their spiritual oaths.

As far as I know, the rules for 3.5e do not state that druids are forbidden from using non-druidic weapons so the statement that druids of Mielikki may use all simple and martial weapons seems superfluous.

As for the oath applying to armor only, not weapons, the penalty allies to armor only, not weapons. Details on what the oath actually says are sketchy at best.

Is the statement that they "can use" them imply that they're granted proficiency with them? Or just that they're capable of using them at all? The difference being that most people can use a weapon they aren't proficient with in PnP, unless I'm mistaken, but it only gives them a -4 penalty to attack rolls?

[soulfien]

Mar 16, 2009 12:19:05 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Details on what the oath actually says are sketchy at best.

That's because it's in druidic which is never written down and never spoken in front of any non-druids.

[EDM Neo]

Mar 16, 2009 15:04:13 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Mar 16, 2009 12:19:05 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Details on what the oath actually says are sketchy at best.

That's because it's in druidic which is never written down and never spoken in front of any non-druids.

That just reminds me of another question. Does druidic have a written form at all, or it's verbal only?

[soulfien]

it has no written form. period.

It's only taught by word of mouth from one druid to another and never written so that there is never a record to be found in any grove ruins.

[Munroe]

Mar 16, 2009 12:38:22 GMT -5 EDM Neo said:

Mar 16, 2009 12:19:05 GMT -5 Munroe said:

ANY druid of ANY god may be able to use ANY weapon (depending on what the DM Q&A says), but I was in line with source in my statement.

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 23.

Mielikki, who is famous for the number of druid/rangers who worship her, has more lenient spiritual oaths than most deities that druids worship in the Realms. Druids of Mielikki can use any of the standard armor or weapons that rangers normally use (all simple and martial weapons, all light and medium armor, and all shields) without violating their spiritual oaths.

As far as I know, the rules for 3.5e do not state that druids are forbidden from using non-druidic weapons so the statement that druids of Mielikki may use all simple and martial weapons seems superfluous.

As for the oath applying to armor only, not weapons, the penalty allies to armor only, not weapons. Details on what the oath actually says are sketchy at best.

Is the statement that they "can use" them imply that they're granted proficiency with them? Or just that they're capable of using them at all? The difference being that most people can use a weapon they aren't proficient with in PnP, unless I'm mistaken, but it only gives them a -4 penalty to attack rolls?

They aren't granted proficiency with them. Of course since many of her druids multi-class as druid/rangers, getting the proficiencies usually isn't a problem.