Ropeplay Struggles...

[Grozer]

Based on recent events, specifically last night I am kind of torn between how to RP certain events and even though there is a risk of this information being used to metagame I really would like some input from others.

Yes I am specifically referring to Ranan here... what a shock right...

I wont give away what happened, but suffice it to say another “hunting party” showed up to take Ranan and another to jail… of course it wound up in a fight…this hunting thing is happening a lot lately, not that I am totally against it mind you but it just doesn’t feel like there is much resolution to it as well as I am struggling with the proper RP of it all.

Manshin and I had a decent starting conversation on this topic OOC some time back and he brought up a good point about the continuous circle… Ranan gets hunted…. Ranan turns and hunts them…. they come after him again… you get the picture…by the way this is the real reason I tend to avoid PvP. I do understand the memory rule when death is involved, but it doesn’t always result in death and even if it does most “learn” about it through RP with various witness or other means…. While I am not sure what the answer should be, I am sure what it shouldn’t be… it should not be a perma-death rule. I want to try and keep this short so I wont elaborate why at this point…

The second issue that came up in my mind… the PD guard told Ranan he was wanted by the Crown… ok so… since I need to go into towns for basic reasons… what are my options? I “could” come up with a disguise and fake name but would Ranan…I don’t believe that would fit his persona, he is an arrogant SOB after all. At the same time, he isn’t stupid… last night he could have killed the single PD guard and taken off, but in reality he knows this would probably cause a massive manhunt and he cannot achieve greater goals while running or in jail. I also believe this is proper RP, since I think every evil character should take into account more than the single NPC being possessed by the DM, i.e. there is more than a single PD guard standing there. The evil character should be somewhat concerned about the consequences of his actions and even feel some amount of fear that there is an army of PD/WWs out there.

For similar reasons, I think good players should also be concerned about hunting evil doers or at least it should effect their decisions. Yea OK I know maybe you can corner someone like a Ranan or any single (or two) criminal and kill/apprehend them easily, but remember who the character is? Just as behind the guard in the city is an army, behind a Banite Priest there is also an army…in FR Banite Priest’s can command zhentarim soldiers to raid a town or hunt down an individual and while my FR knowledge is not that great… I think there is some basis for intimidation by the zhentarim strength. Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not suggesting anyone should run in fear, I am simply saying that it should have an impact on RP and decisions, just as Ranan would be inclined to escape from a single PD guard rather than kill him.

My last thought has been brought up before and I know there are many more pressing issues keeping the DM team busy, so I am not putting this out there for the DMs to build me something. Instead I am asking the community for ideas… as we were making our escape, I was thinking where the hell do we go to lay low? There really is no “underground” per se and I would expect if evil characters were being hunted as frequently as we are something would develop… I have recently come up with one idea which I won’t share here hehe… but just wanted to see what others have any good ideas, you can PM me if you wish.

Anyway, I’ll close by saying sorry about the rambling, I had so many thoughts swimming around after last night, unfortunately I didn’t capture everything but I did want start a discussion and gain feedback from the some of the great RP’rs here.

[manyasone]

Its all about finesse.

Well, I've played a wholly evil character on this server for a very long time. Most people who've met Melkroth the Red Wizard know he's evil. Because Melkroth makes such a spectical of the fact that he's aided Cormyr several times, hasn't done anything illegal (openly), and has offered his spells to the Silver Shields to aid in times of trouble, he makes sure he's untouchable.

And as far as an underground is concerned... Last I checked, I know of a few underground groups, some of which have frequently used bases of operation (good for laying low). Or, if you need supplies, get a lacky and have them go into town for you. Simple.

Additionally, my character Melkroth is arrogant. Very arrogant. But in all honesty, being arrogant should have no bearing on going into towns under diguise... Currently, my wizard defected from the Red Wizards and has taken up the name Daerdrick and wears black robes and a hood. Being arrogant has nothing to do with being smart. If a character's arrogance is more important than his survival, then he deserves the trouble he gets. In a PnP campaign, I'd likely ask the player with the arrogant character to tone it down a notch or retire the character because the need for arrogance outweights the need to keep the game realistic.

Well, does Ranan *want* all this attention? I mean, is that why he refuses a disguise? Is he that arrogant? If so, there is no real solution to your going in town issues.


Next, the good guys being weary about apprehending you. I assume that all of your refrences to banite priests means your character is a baneite. You must realize that there are many overzealous good guys out there, many of which would sacrifice themselves to bring down someone who was a major threat to good. Personally, the amount of overzealous good guys on this server is a bit much... At any rate, if you're evil, expect being hunted. Even when you think you're safe. While inside the walled-off Thayan Red Wizard compound, my character still kept 5 invis potions and 5 speed potions in his bag at all times. Expect this stuff. Especially if you're evil. Comes with the territory.


It all comes down to your lone issues as a player. Because of the way you choose to play your character, these things happen. There is no set soloution to problems like this except an attitude ajustment. As I said, in PnP characters like this often become more of a disruption than a good RP opportunity. The player will get upset with the position he got himself into. And eventually he'd need to retire the character or change the way he roleplays him. Even a baneite priest (especially a priest) would have the foresight and wisdom to don a disguise or not make a spectical of himself. I'm pretty sure you did something to get enough attention to be hunted down. That's your own fault. Being hunted and hated by everyone is probably the last thing most evil characters want and the fact is that your character is being hunted for crossing the line.

Its all about finesse.


Edit: somehow the word 'shlongy' got into my post... strange.

[Grozer]

manyasone said:

Well, I've played a wholly evil character on this server for a very long time. Most people who've met Melkroth the Red Wizard know he's evil. Because Melkroth makes such a spectical of the fact that he's aided Cormyr several times, hasn't done anything illegal (openly), and has offered his spells to the Silver Shields to aid in times of trouble, he makes sure he's untouchable.

Good point. I guess I should have said more about Ranan’s background to put this in perspective. Ranan has been around almost a real time year (wow cant believe its been that long) and only recently was discovered what he was keeping very secret.

For a long time he traveled with Manshin and other characters that may not have befriended him had they know what he was truely all about... he has never openly done anything to betray his true intentions. In fact, in some cases he has purposely saved the lives (or raised) of certain characters he considers enemies just because it was in his best interests at that time. He understands the value of projecting an image...

manyasone said:

But in all honesty, being arrogant should have no bearing on going into towns under diguise... Being arrogant has nothing to do with being smart. If a character's arrogance is more important than his survival, then he deserves the trouble he gets.

Good points to consider and which I was already weighing… I asked about the disguise thing only because I wanted to make sure this would still be in character…

manyasone said:

Well, does Ranan *want* all this attention? I mean, is that why he refuses a disguise? Is he that arrogant? If so, there is no real solution to your going in town issues.

Actually no… or at least it’s not in his plan yet… and as I said above, he never intended this to happen but sometimes circumstances (read RP) take you where you hadn’t intended.

manyasone said:

Next, the good guys being weary about apprehending you. You must realize that there are many overzealous good guys out there, many of which would sacrifice themselves to bring down someone who was a major threat to good. Personally, the amount of overzealous good guys on this server is a bit much... At any rate, if you're evil, expect being hunted. Even when you think you're safe. Expect this stuff. Especially if you're evil. Comes with the territory.

I do expect it and I RP as such. However my point was more about how we ALL should be taking external unseen factors into account within our RP and decisions i.e. attack a single guard and you “should” expect the entire town forces to come after you even though the DM only possesses the single guard.

manyasone said:

It all comes down to your lone issues as a player. Because of the way you choose to play your character, these things happen. There is no set solution to problems like this except an attitude adjustment. As I said, in PnP characters like this often become more of a disruption than a good RP opportunity. The player will get upset with the position he got himself into. And eventually he'd need to retire the character or change the way he role plays him. Even a shlongy Banite priest (especially a priest) would have the foresight and wisdom to don a disguise or not make a spectical of himself. I'm pretty sure you did something to get enough attention to be hunted down. That's your own fault. Being hunted and hated by everyone is probably the last thing most evil characters want and the fact is that your character is being hunted for crossing the line.

Maybe I wasn’t too clear… I am not complaining this was more about me trying to improve the RP. I was seeking input. I wanted to feel like using disguises is not a bad choice. That being said, yes I know I need to expect certain things playing an evil character as well as accept the consequences of my own actions, but I disagree that Ranan has become a disruption. Up until now instead wearing disguises Ranan has stayed away from public places where he can be discovered.

Also I am not upset, I apologize to anyone who got that impression from my post…however automatically suggesting that a character brought the actions upon him/herself or explaining this as a consequence of a single player’s actions does not take into account all the other variables that occur on PW server which has hundreds of characters.

Thanks for the input… and the good stuff to think about…

[olwentheold]

Well as a Silver Shield, I would consider my character one of the overzealous good guys to will "have" to make the attempt - it's her oath and duty. But as a player - I hate it. The whole endless PvP thing is really starting to eat me up. Somedays i log on for a while just to say hi to some people on, and I'm put on PvP Dislike.

All I can say is, IG, if Glewi sees a known criminal, especially in town, she will attempt to confront that character - with the understanding that guardsmen and Purple Dragon are all over the town and she can always call for aid from them.

I would suggest that if Ranan, and any other criminal for that matter, comes into town - just come in hooded and remain incognito. Doesn't really mean he has to come in disguised - a simple shadowed hood or a helm (other than the ones everyone's used to seeing him with - enough to raise suspicions) would suffice. I think it's poor RP if good people recognize you when you're obviously "hidden" that way. When I meet some baddies outside, I too try to ignore them and pretend i don't see them when they are obviously trying to avoid me (walking around a building etc - basically no clear line of sight).

I would suggest - to everyone involved in these endless PvP encounters that we restrict PvPs for specific encounters only. The jailbreak in which Ranan was busted out was a good and well planned and played RP in my personal opinion - the good guys were trashed but it was actually fine with me - there was good RP reasons for it.

I think it is also very valid to expect another tiresome PvP if you enter town, and turn up in places where you should know that zealots would be on the look out for you (i.e., Redmidst inn) - in the open. And i think it's bad RP if you expect to win even if you down a few zealot - and not expect the whole townsguards and PD to come down on you and foil you escape. Don't forget - NPCs may be around who will most likely flee in terror and yell out for guards.

Same goes for good guys accidentally meeting criminals in dungeons or in the wilderness - perhaps it would be best if we seriously keep PvP to a minimum unless it advances some major Guildwar plot or if there's a real reason for it.

[Grozer]

olwentheold said:

I think it is also very valid to expect another tiresome PvP if you enter town, and turn up in places where you should know that zealots would be on the look out for you (i.e., Redmidst inn) - in the open.

I agree, but I also believe you should not expect there will be no surprises. The first time Ranan was cornered there by 5 or 6 characters against him alone, he was taken. This time a group came looking for him... how could you know he didnt have anyone lurking in the shadows watching his back... you couldn't have known he was alone or with 20 Zhentarims warriors. I'm exaggerating but my point is you came looking for him, there could have been an evil convention for all you knew...

olwentheold said:

And i think it's bad RP if you expect to win even if you down a few zealot - and not expect the whole townsguards and PD to come down on you and foil you escape. Don't forget - NPCs may be around who will most likely flee in terror and yell out for guards.

Well, I think I already stated I did RP that I was concerned about the guards even though only one was in play. In fact if you remember correctly he engaged Ranan and could not hit him but Ranan dropped his weapons and started trying to talk his way out of it. I dont believe I RP'd the situation badly although there are things I could have done better.

[olwentheold]

Yup agreed on all points

Oh btw, I didn't mean anything was badly RP that day, in fact - on the contrary, I think Ranan acted very well with the PD and not causing a scene by attacking on the open streets. If anything, I think the PvP that occured outside the inn was very RPed especially the escape - and thus avoiding the whole conflict.

But also a point to note, the party I was with - with the exception of Gial, was not looking or hunting Ranan or Vis that time, we were just going to sell our loot and log for the day; Glewi wasn't even going to go in coz of the usual ties that inn has with baddies, but Kam did come out to report that trouble was brewing so . . . It was really just another chance encounter.

I was actually referring to possible future encounters which may or may not develop if this endless cycle of PvP continues everytime good meets evil and vice versa.

[Keetena]

I do think we need more criativity, if we just fight when seeing each other something is really wrong, so let's review somethings, if you are evil and attack someone in the city so you provoked an inevitable situation of pvp, but if you're a shield or someone with the law you shall first think about the security of the inocent people surrouding you, if someone evil is there he or she has something to do or that wanna do, so, why attack without discover what was? And why not wait a better time to attack somone who can call demons or very destructive spells? We need keep in mind that pvp is the 'ultimate' thing and not the only possibility, if we really need follow that rule that 'you must kill other player only one time for day IRL' we're wrong... and about evil guys, many people were mad about Raven killing his/her character, but as he told before, he killed for vengeance or retaliation after you striked one of his comanded, he had more reasons than the obvious ones (I'm not defending or attacking anyone, just pick as example). Save the pvp to more proper times.

[soulfien]

I'm going to speak up here.

I mean this in the sinceirest way- There's nothign wrong with spending time in jail.

If you really think about it, what do you lose? You lose farming time. Unless you're one of those freaks who NEVER farm and ALWAYS RP some situation or another and have built your PC all the way up from lvl 1 purely on XP awards from DM's, you've lost nothing by spending time in jail.

I hear players complain about jail time but it's a great way to earn yourself some RP experience. I doubt Ranan would spend several RT months in jail. Most likely it'd be a couple weeks. I once spent 30 RT days in jail so I'm not being a hypocrite here.

Maybe I misinterperated your post, but you did say your PC has better things to do than go to jail. Well, no villian WANTS to be locked ujp, but as you can see by touring a prison, it happens.

Play it out. Ranan is a very well known evil do'er. Everyone knows the name. Being caught and serving time only enhances your RP experience and should never be looked at like an OOC punishment.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

You spent 30 days in jail RT on FRC?! That's impressive. The most I spent in jail on FRC was about 2 weeks RT. I spent everyday of those 2 weeks about 2 hours a day on average. Of course my cell was a magical prison, so no one could come and RP with me, but I have found that even if you are in a normal jail, people dont like to waste their time coming to talk to you (I REALLY appreciated visitors when they did come). So there really isnt much to RP in the cell. So I could definitely understand wanting to spend as little time in there as possible. Soulfien, in all truthfulness, you are definitely a much more hardcore rper than I. I could only take so many days of: *urinates in latrine*, *makes rude gesture at guard*, *spits on floor*, *awaits next meal*. Of course when I got really bored, when i had a guard, I would talk to them. Typically, they remain very tight lipped.

However, I will agree on this point: the results of seeing your time through in the jail may be much more profitable (not monetarily) in the end. Picture this. Lawful Evil man is taken to jail. His friends come to break him out, but he refuses to come with, content to see this through. He knows, or at least his arrogance blinds him enough to make him think he knows, that he will not be punished. Instead he sends one of his minions (because if you are a badazz evil dude you have "minions") to pay off the judge that will be handling the case. The day of the trial finally arrives. The silver shields line the halls, salivating at the fact that the epitome of evil is about to burn at the stake. The judge declares his final verdict ...

Well you get the idea. I will say that I was quite surprised that Hroth has been to jail and gotten out on accounts of lack of evidence.

But I digress. I dont think this thread was about jail time. It is about the constant circle of PvP. I will say that proving yourself "innocent" is a good way of eliminating the potential of PvP. The other way is just to kill ALL the good guys

[Grozer]

soulfien said:

I'm going to speak up here.

I mean this in the sinceirest way- There's nothign wrong with spending time in jail.

If you really think about it, what do you lose?

I hear ya... and actually one of the best RP times I ever had on FRC was my first time in the Suzail cells. Ranan was attending a criminal hearing of a friend and wound up in trouble while there... (how it happened? dont ask) Long story short this was where I believe Ranan's true colors were discovered... he was accused of lying and obstructing justice by some stinking war wizard! (OK a bit carried away there...) Ranan was put in jail alongside Raven. It was an interesting couple of days to say the least.. since Raven and Ranan had not crossed paths IG until that point...

soulfien said:

I hear players complain about jail time but it's a great way to earn yourself some RP experience. I doubt Ranan would spend several RT months in jail. Most likely it'd be a couple weeks. I once spent 30 RT days in jail so I'm not being a hypocrite here.

Maybe I misinterperated your post, but you did say your PC has better things to do than go to jail. Well, no villian WANTS to be locked ujp, but as you can see by touring a prison, it happens.

In truth you are right, some good things can happen, but there are also the grey areas which is where I struggle. In my first jail experience, Ranan was able to convince the WWs that a simple fine should be paid since there was little to no evidence against him for such a petty crime. No problem there, walk away.

However, in the second instance, as most know he was broken out... of course this makes him a larger criminal. Which in turn means everytime he is cornered, someone tries to take him back to jail, which practically guarantees a fight. See where I am going with this? Anyway, I know, I know... play an evil character and you asked for it... but I really dont believe it is that simple or at least it shouldn't be...

soulfien said:

Play it out. Ranan is a very well known evil do'er. Everyone knows the name. Being caught and serving time only enhances your RP experience and should never be looked at like an OOC punishment.

Thanks for the advice... and no i never considered it punishment.

[StabbingNirvana]

well, not only are banites evil, theyre enemies of the crown and attack cormyr. if youre a banite, chances are youre aiding the zhentarim, seeing as how the zhent stronghold is a temple to bane. not only that, but ranan broke out of prison. so, when a certain mightily awesome paladin of tyr sees you in town, its either surrender, run, or fight. that the quick way to put it. by the way, that cape is phenomenal.

[Booze Hound]

grozer said:

I “could” come up with a disguise and fake name but would Ranan…I don’t believe that would fit his persona, he is an arrogant SOB after all. At the same time, he isn’t stupid… last night he could have killed the single PD guard and taken off, but in reality he knows this would probably cause a massive manhunt and he cannot achieve greater goals while running or in jail.

get yourself a nice Bane colored robe. pull up the hood wear the robe, and slip into town quietly, grab supplies, and leave. I could see Ranan doing that. nothing extravagant like faking his voice or wearing make-up, just a robe over his armor, and a low slung hood and tightly selaed lips should get him done what he wants done. and if the robe looks like something a Banite monk might wear, then he gets his "In your face" sta at the good guys.

another thing to note is this...and this ain't at you Grozer, just a note to good guys I guess. remember who your character is, and what HIS/HER desires are. Just because your paladin buddies are fervently hunting some terrible bad guy doesn't mean your character necessarily gives a darn. but if said bad guy is threatening your paladin friend, jump in and help. Personally, Vind would probably not go hunting Ranan down if asked to by some hunting party even though he is a good guy. Ranan has been a decent travelling companion before, and hasn't ever done anything bad to him. now if he and his Zhents start burning his forest, you'd better believe he's coming for him. anyway...I'm rambling...it's just that, like ManyasOne said...there are a lot of good guy zealots, try to remember if your character is one or not.

BTW, there is some great RP advice/comments in this thread. ;D

[Manshin]

The best solution to all this would be to have a Isinhold for the bad guys. A place to supply guarded by Zhentarim guards. I am certain this could be done. I will gladly build it if the DMs dont mind putting it in. This would make it a bit easier for the evil doers like Ranan.

As for the PvP stuff, well.. I love it. What fun. Who cares if its endless. So is farming... at least other players are a worthy challenge. We have another thread which talks about sitting out for a while if you are killed. There is also another way to go about it too:

Yesterday, Manshin lured Marklar to his lair and tortured him for information. (What fun, which by the way was a great RP... Wil save vs. damage delt to see if he would talk.) Anyway, the point is... Manshin could easily have killed him, but OOC, I let him escape. I unlocked the door, and let him run for it. IC, Manshin would have killed him, but trying to explain that he came back to life, and him having to pretend he doesnt remember gets old after a while. In the end, I think it isnt a bad idea to let the baddies get away, even when you dont have to. (and vice versa) Also, I will usually try to raise the bad guys if I kill them and tell them OOC to play dead. You can always pretend that they didnt die, but were just badly wounded and unconcious. If me and six buddies give some poor sod a boot party, Im not going to make him respawn. (I would have raised you Ranan!) If its a close fight, thats differant, but Im not going to make someone respawn if they didnt have a chance.

Anyway, more on topic... having an evil Isinhold esc area will insure that the random "hunting parties" cant just go get the baddies whenever they want... at least, not without battling an entire garrison of Zhents. Keeping encouters between good guys and bad guys out of town will insure that both parties are more likely to be prepared for a fight.

[Spooks]

Only thing about having an evil town is... well Goodguys cant shop at it.

This isnt a bad thing, but if the merchant/guards attack the good guys for entering badtown, shouldn't the guards in goodland attack bad guys?

[thogrimur]

Taking the starting area for characters and turning it into an area controlled by the zhents and evil players is the BEST solution?!?!

Gotta disagree with that. Evil characters who lack the subtlety to come into the area, get what they need and get out...or have an adequate disguise at the ready deserve what they get when they are harrassed.

Personally I consider a simple barkskin potion enough to distort the physical features of a person...all you need then is to either be quiet and complete your business, or emote a disguise to your voice...and not just stand at the fire with your flaming weapon drawn in defiance of the laws and metagaming the (often) inactive Npc guards. If you are a good player then you can resist the urge to hit tab and read the floating name...or choose not act off of this OOC information if you cannot supress your urge to peek.

I don't harrass anyone unless their behavior warrants it, even though I can be considered as one of the "overzealous" good guys.

Evil characters already have places they can go to hang out with those of like minds, but players have no choice about where they are forced to begin in the module.

If this happens tthen we would have the opposite problem, with good characters being hunted and harrassed as they desperately powergamed to get past level five and out of the starting zone.

IMO the BEST solution would be to have starting areas based off of different alignments. But this is extremely labor intensive. I personally do not see or have a problem with things the way they are now.

I have had several encounters with well played evil, some ending in PvP and some not. I have raised the baddies and let them get away, and have been raised and 'left for dead'.

Corymr is a lawful good society. If you are an evil character, prepare to have some difficulties if you haven't the tact to pull it off.

Bottom line = I don't see that anything NEEDS to be changed at all. Is there really that big of a problem? I haven't witnessed it if it is and I have spent a lot of time at that campfire.

[Booze Hound]

i am pretty sure he didn't mean changing Isinhold into a place for bad guys, but making an Isinhold type place for bad guys. somewhere else they could go other than Isinhold. Which would be pretty neat if bad guys could buy cheap supplies at the Zhent fortress or something.

[thogrimur]

yeah, after re-reading it sure looks as though I misunderstood what you were suggesting Mansion.

think i will go chew on my foot for awhile

[Booze Hound]

thogrimur said:

yeah, after re-reading I sure looks as though I misunderstood what you were suggesting Mansion.

think i will go chew on my foot for awhile

haha hope you don't have sweaty feet

[Manshin]

As for a town with Zhent Guards, they dont need to be set to attack "good guys" If they were, then good guys wouldnt be able to get in... even with a disguise. I think it should just be like Isinhold... only backwords. Good guys who go there will just have to RP that they are bad guys.. and if a DM happens to see a good guy there, he will have him flogged or hung.

Oh.. I know! At the gate, there could be a guard posted who "questions" people who want to enter. Evil guys or guys who are carrying the right "papers" get in with no problems, but good guys are forced to make a "perform" or "bluff" check in order to fool the guards. If they succeed, the guard opens the gate to let them enter. If he fails he may be told to go away, or in case of a bad failure, they set crossbowmen on the wall to start shooting.

[Spooks]

manshin said:

As for a town with Zhent Guards, they dont need to be set to attack "good guys" If they were, then good guys wouldnt be able to get in... even with a disguise. I think it should just be like Isinhold... only backwords. Good guys who go there will just have to RP that they are bad guys.. and if a DM happens to see a good guy there, he will have him flogged or hung.

Oh.. I know! At the gate, there could be a guard posted who "questions" people who want to enter. Evil guys or guys who are carrying the right "papers" get in with no problems, but good guys are forced to make a "perform" or "bluff" check in order to fool the guards. If they succeed, the guard opens the gate to let them enter. If he fails he may be told to go away, or in case of a bad failure, they set crossbowmen on the wall to start shooting.

lol like a hardcore Mantis Clan gate? No evil allowed!

[Grozer]

manshin said:

As for a town with Zhent Guards, they dont need to be set to attack "good guys" If they were, then good guys wouldnt be able to get in... even with a disguise. I think it should just be like Isinhold... only backwords. Good guys who go there will just have to RP that they are bad guys.. and if a DM happens to see a good guy there, he will have him flogged or hung.

Oh.. I know! At the gate, there could be a guard posted who "questions" people who want to enter. Evil guys or guys who are carrying the right "papers" get in with no problems, but good guys are forced to make a "perform" or "bluff" check in order to fool the guards. If they succeed, the guard opens the gate to let them enter. If he fails he may be told to go away, or in case of a bad failure, they set crossbowmen on the wall to start shooting.

OK.. I know I am gonna hate myself for disagreeing but oh well *shrugs*

First I've gotten used to using a disguising, not saying much and moving on my way. So whether a town is created or not.. I'll survive.

Second, if a "place" was created I wouldn't expect the "guards" to keep the good guys out, but the good guys shouldnt expect PD or WW to come to their aid if they try to round up criminals. In fact the "place" should be controlled by the seedy underground.. think corrupt politician and guards on the evil players payroll. Also good guys should feel some sense of intimidation entering the town...

Finally, I am not sure how you could make this work in Cormyr. I mean in all honesty with status of the Crown and all.. I would expect any "town" trying to establish itself would receive the full attention of the PDs and WWs. They would send an army in my opinion... therefore whatever it "would" be would have to be off the map and not well known.. I wouldn't even call it a town...

Anyway, just my thoughts....

Ya I know, doesnt really support what I originally asked for but it also needs to fit.

Thanks for the offer Manshin.

[Grozer]

manshin said:

Yesterday, Manshin lured Marklar to his lair and tortured him for information. (What fun, which by the way was a great RP... Wil save vs. damage delt to see if he would talk.) Anyway, the point is... Manshin could easily have killed him, but OOC, I let him escape. I unlocked the door, and let him run for it. IC, Manshin would have killed him, but trying to explain that he came back to life, and him having to pretend he doesnt remember gets old after a while.

Ya Ranan already learned about this, you *&%^#$#$! After Manshin undergoes real Banite torture, I'm gonna cut his heart out!

Seriously, I think I already told you that I really like where this is going between Manshin and Ranan... a classic battle between two former friends, making an excellent story I think!

[Laurk]

Thats the spirit, bring it on baby! Manshin's going to reduce you to a smattering of dancing atoms bouncing on the coble stones. Hehe...

As for the town, though it may not be source material, if you think about it.. there is a Zhentarim stronghold sieging Isinhold at the moment, why wouldnt they have a make-shift town set up with a bar and some caravan supply shops? Even Zhents need R&R.

[Talus]

Um...what about the Thayian Enclave? Doesn't that kind of already fit the bill? It's outside Cormyr, and well the Thayians aren't known for their good deeds in the world. So I would think this would suit your needs well. And well those gaurds at their gate aren't the friendlies lot, if you come at night. I am always intimidated when I go there.

[olwentheold]

I kinda like the idea of a bad guy hang out zone. Maybe not a "town" but a hideout. Like Talus mentioned - isn't the Thayan Enclave more or less something like that - way I see it, that place is legally Thayan territory and the "good guys" have no right to make any arrests there and are in fact subject to Thayan law if they choose to enter that place. The Fireknives hideout is another that comes to mind (although it's currently incomplete).

Speaking of which, will someone give those poor Banites a place to call their own already

[Spooks]

How do you figure it's incomplete? They have their merchant, and quest, and such.... I just think of it as Clotho's private little merchant... which is a bitch to get to >_<

[Grozer]

talus said:

Um...what about the Thayian Enclave? Doesn't that kind of already fit the bill? It's outside Cormyr, and well the Thayians aren't known for their good deeds in the world. So I would think this would suit your needs well. And well those gaurds at their gate aren't the friendlies lot, if you come at night. I am always intimidated when I go there.

Actually the Thayan enclave is a good spot, except A) Thayan might not want to dragged into harboring criminals.. hehe... and B) I havent found anyway to get there without passing through Isinhold. Ideally if there was another path this would just about make it perfect.

What would make it perfect, well selfish reasons of course like Ranan's personal accomodations complete with steam bath, holding cells and modern state of the art torture chamber! OK so i know that aint gonna happen, but hey one can always ask right?

[Booze Hound]

grozer said:

I havent found anyway to get there without passing through Isinhold. Ideally if there was another path this would just about make it perfect.

well..you could go from welcome area o Redmist, then walk to the enclave...of course Isin is still in the way for you to get to the Banite Temple...*shrugs* but there's that at least