Metagame policy

[Keetena]

This is an aspect that everyone talks about, so I think that deserves an entry in roleplay discussion. Metagame can destroy fun and interesting histories, I don't know why but some players just love take their knowledge to aid their characters or just add information that they can't have common access, this is really frustrating. But I think that some players deserve respect while considering this aspect... without names to preserve players of unecessary argues, can some of you put examples of frustating scenes you passed in consequence of metagame, as well as examples of laudable scenes without metagame (like someone attacking bodaks without care to protect agaisnt their gaze thinking this is superstition or just ignoring knowledge about such power)?

[Artemisa]

Scenes without metagame? Sure I got tons ;D

My bard has a tendency to forget even the simplest roads to different places and trusting everything on her coin she can surely get lost pretty fast. Together with a friend of her, my bard leading the way ( ), she was suppose to walk from Redmist to a certain crypt right outside. Though after some confusing moments and a lot of flipping her coin they somehow ended up on the road to Suzail, all the way from west of Redmist, both nearly getting smashed up good by some orcs...

OOC we both knew the way to the crypt and knew perfectly well that we would meet orcs too strong for us to handle on the Suzail road. But it was tons of fun and for some reason my bard is hardly ever asked to lead the way anymore


Don't have too many examples on metagaming that I've experienced myself, but the most common one is when my character is completely unrecognizeable - covered with a hood etc etc - and STILL people "see" it's her It's a detail, I know, and it's never really a problem after you have politely reminded the other person that he/she wouldn't have known it was me and so forth. Easy mistake to make and I've done it myself, too

[Misha Aogail]

One of my more favorite, non-metagaming scenes happened really recently when our favorite Cyricist came up to Torian disguised as a PDK. Tenchi and Tori were discussing things, all the while this strange knight was looking around, looking at a piece of paper, and continued this for a while until asking who I was. He then tried to convince Tori to go to Redmist with him to the jail there. And then, of course, a crash interrupted it (And dagnabit, Seeker, if you start something, please don't wander off to another game and leave it hanging! I wanted to play that out to see what happened!). That was pretty fun, and though I knew OOC who the knight was, IC, Tori still acted the way she normally would when faced with such a problem - Acted defiantly and asked a bunch of questions.

And as for the metagaming stuff... Countless times Tori's been in one disguise or another, and yes, wearing a hood, but far enough away, or her head turned enough that no one could see her face at a passing glance, but just about every single person who even remotely knows Tori automatically says 'Hi Tori!' as they pass. There have been several times I have had to send tells to people asking if they had seen Tori wearing the current disguise before and remind them that Tori may be hiding. Sometimes people change and make up for the mistake saying they thought it was her and whatnot, but please... For the sakes of those of us who are TRYing to hide but have limited means to do so (AGAIN, I bring up the fact there are no FEMALE masks), please, before you just blurt out 'Hi Bob!' because you read the name over Bob's head, think about whether or not you really know who the person is.

Of course, I'm not Pot, nor am I calling anyone black. There have been a few times I've been guilty of metagaming by reading names over people's characters and started following them even though they were in disguise. Generally, though, when I notice myself doing this, I have Tori stop, look around, shake her head, then turn back thinking that the person could possibly be the one she was after. I mean, like I said, I try not to metagame, but it happens sometimes. Even the best RPers fall sometimes. Just realize what you're doing and do what you can to correct it. That's all that anyone can ask.

Which, of course, brings up another good RP scenario without metagaming. Keets... Man, you put up with a lot of BS from those Cyricists... And she could have tagged each and everyone one of those attackers through metagaming and turned them over to the PDKs or War Wizards... Especially that annoying little one that was some how still standing in the end.... - That was just awesome RP all around.

[Spooks]

I have to admit, Keet, that was a good example of fine Roleplay. I was iffy about whether or not you would try to get us in trouble, when you didn't know it was us, but you did finely and didn't attempt it unless you had proof or some sort of logic...

Though now that you mention it... You loooked through one of their belongings and such, you could have looked at the face, but you neglected to say such... Just a reminder for next time. *shrug* It may screw up current plans someone has, but if you discover their identity, them having to RP going into hiding is just as high a quality.

And my worst metagamed experience I cannot post here due to the fact that it may offend people. I know someone metagamed info, but I don't have proof IC or OOC, so I can't start rumors. But vaguely enough... Thrulia was perma-killed because of it, because it was the only way to explain how the metagamed info became public.

Also, I know I cant say she was perma-killed BECAUSE of it, since you ultimately choose if you want them to be dead. But:
A.) the death was awesomely RPed
B.) the killer took care of my body nicely and as such I wouldn't have any possibility of someone finding my remains and raising them.

The feeling of me losing a character is like the feeling you get in chess after you've been checkmated. If it was a good move, you accept it and learn from it. A bad one, you accept it but think about how easily you could have prevented it.

I would like to think I saw it as a good move.

But though I accept my characters death, it shouldn't have become an issue to begin with, because IC she didn't do anything to deserve it.

[Keetena]

In truth that scene when I didn't take a look at her face was a RP decision. Keet was nervous, she looked be in her nerves but she wasn't, if I already killed my attacker I was more interested in find who sent her or delay the survival one cause she could be after me, so she braked your vials who could be used by the survival, sometimes when in hurry we forgot very simple things that we thought not important... but the face of a dead burglar I think wasn't so important anyways, gotcha? ... changing the aspect , I think we need review the memories of our characters after return death, some roleplayers just remenber everything until the final cut, when raised, others even when passing fugue plane. It exist a diference about such ways to return life? Can a DM put all clear? Cause I roleplay that I forgot my previous half-hour in both cases. I just remenber the pain and the sense of loss as asked and described... of course I do some exceptions in this last aspect sometimes waiting reach a better place to mourn, some journeys are so dangerous that we need keep on nerves to just survive. Like the soldier who realizes a lost arm only after kill his attacker and felt secure.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Yeah I am gonna have to go with spooks on this one. That experience was terrible, for me as a player and I wasnt even the one losing my character. Then there was another occurence recently, but I wont complain too much about it, because I feel like the person who meta'ed actually ended up benefitting me:)

But lets see, metagaming. Well I love to do it. I do it all the time. Actually, I'm joking but I do have occasions to doing it.
1) If someone sends me a tell that they are at a certain location and would like to meet up. Of course I try to continue what I was doing and leisurely stroll to meet up with this person.
2) Using my previous knowledge about a dungeon. It is one thing to know what a monster's abilities are, but I take it a step further sometimes. Since I know how many spawns and what types of spawns are in a room, then usually I know how to approach each room . Now of course I might be saying this purely to get more interaction with the dms so that they change the dungeons up on me
3) Following masked or disguised characters. Generally I will follow them for a bit, hoping that they may slip up, but if they just start talking out in public, it is usually not worth following them. I look at it like: hey they are kinda acting funny and i've never seen them around before, maybe they are hiding something. Usually this turns into absolutely nothing, in fact I cant remember a time when this has helped me. Usually Hroth just gives up if the person plays their disguise well.

The trouble with metagaming is that it is such an easy thing to use to gain power over the other players, and usually it is really quite easy to explain in IC terms.

[Gusty]

*OFF TOPIC POST DO NOT REPLY TO IT, NOT A DISCUSSION*

Regarding female characters and masks....

I guess if you were wearing the male mask it would be more obvious you were wearing a mask.

Perhaps masked people should be more blatant about the fact they are wearing masks. Wear the Troll Head or something. Something that says "I am wearing a mask. You cannot tell it is me."

I know that I for one get sick of hearing that a hood is a mask. Every hooded thing I own you can see my face at somepoint. If i make the hood pull down far enough that you can't see who I am then I can't see where I am going. I fall down and crash into stuff.

*END OFF TOPIC POST*

[Spooks]

*snicker*...

[Misha Aogail]

All I can say is there IS a logical way to make the hood PART of a mask... If you're creative enough to figure it out...

[Munroe]

I own two "hoods" with built-in black-out masks. They are made of sheer black fabric that the wearer can see out of but the people outside cannot see in through. You can buy them around Halloween for about $8. Here, I found a link:

Fright Catalog Invisible Mask

[Cole]

If someone walks over to me wearing a low hood pulled down so I cant see his or her face... Ill probably follow them just because I want to know why they dont want to be recognised? Doesnt that make sense? I mean... they are obviously hiding something? Could be gold!

As for Meta, the single biggest problem with metagaming is OOC chatter. People are always telling me their schemes OOC. Dont. I dont want to know! If I find out, I want it to be because I was clever enough to find out. There is nothing I hate more than being an inch away from getting to the bottom of some clever plot or another, and then having someone spill the beans to me in OOC, and then accusing me of Meta when I figure it out IC. I mean, at what point can you claim to have enough info for your character to "know" something that you already know OOC? There is a very unclear margine there. Not only that, I am a pretty good detective, and the last thing I want is for someone to accuse me of Meta when I solve something on my own because they think I might know OOC.

My advice to this server, for everyones good. Dont tell anyone who doest already know ANYTHING OOC. The less OOC there is, the more fullfilling all of our little schemes and plots will be.

I already had to deal with people who have OOC knowledge of me who now pretend that their characters suspects mine of being in a guild just because I helped someone else who is the same guild. Nevermind that I have helped players from about every guild there is at some point or another, or that my character doesnt fit the typical mold for this guild in the slightest. Not to mention those who do not know OOC are completely surprised when they find out.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I promise I will not tell anyone anything OOC, and I hope you will all do the same.

[Talus]

Great post Cole. Loved it, agree completely. ;D

[DM Richard (Retired)]

Two points.

1) The difference between hiding your face (with a hood or an obvious mask like the black out mask) and using a disguise is the attention you may attract. A disquise will not attract attention a mask or "sneaking about" does attract attention.

2) Cole is correct cut out the OOC chatter about characters. Either talk IC or don't say anything.

[Misha Aogail]

About the OOC chatter... There's a popular phrase in my LARP, and I have used it a lot.

FOIP

Find O[/b]ut I[/b]n Play. There are many times people would ask me questions OOC and I'd tell them that. ANother thing is, every so often, someone will make a statement in a tell that I have to kindly remind them to keep it IC. ESPECIALLY during heavy RPing. It can just ruin the moment with things like that.

[soulfien]

I get this a lot:

*metagamer has sent you a party invitation*
*You have rejected metagamer's party invitation*
Tell: Please don't send me a party invitation if you haven't even met my character
Tell "Metagamer": Where are you?

[Cole]

That part has been addressed. Linking up with people is not meta. It makes sense. Some people dont have three hours to scour Faerun looking for their pal. If it makes you feel better, send them tells asking them if a certain townsperson would have seen them recently, and find them that way. As for me, I just ask where they are. I dont have time to search if I am trying to find a buddy. If I am finding an enemy, thats differant.

[soulfien]

Well, sending a random person a party invite is rather pushing it in my opinion. This is someone I haven't seen, don't know anything about, and would quite possibly clash with my pc.

My last PC was an elf who didn't speak common. I can't see partying up with someone who can't speak her language and going hunting as roleplaying.

Also, I'm not here to farm. I hate farming. I play here to roleplay, so consider me the exception to the "it's okay to party up and go kill stuff" rule.

Now, if someone meets me in character and we discuss something and go do it, that's fine, but I don't feel comfortable abandoning every shred of RP just to go get some xp.

[soulfien]

There was once on another server some crisis that had sprung up and someone needed help. Her friend was trapped in a crypt by some really tough monsters and needed help fast or he'd die!

Well, I had just made my new PC - a lawful god monk so I rallied to the call with another low lvl PC. The following tells were sent between myself and the other helping:

Me: "We're so gonna die, aren't we?"
Him: "Yup!"
Me: "Damn this lawful good alignment!"
Him: "Yup!"

Metagaming experience... also on another server with PRC hak installed.

My druid had taken the PnP Shifter class that allowed him to assume the shape of anyone he wished. Being a male elf, he assumed the shape of a human female and he and two others went down into the sewers beneath a city to investigate the rumor that there was a temple of Cyric down there. Well, there was, and after we beat up the DM possessed priest (he attacked first) we left. My druid had Cyrists attacking his grove the next day regardless of him using the natural shapeshifting ability to disguise himself.

[Artemisa]

Soulfien said:

I get this a lot:

*metagamer has sent you a party invitation*
*You have rejected metagamer's party invitation*
Tell: Please don't send me a party invitation if you haven't even met my character
Tell "Metagamer": Where are you?

I wouldn't have placed this under metagaming. This fits much more under the "New Player Needs Guide" tab. As much as I admit that it can be annoying, and even frustrating if that invitation window pops up during a fight, I always reply politely to those people and try my best to explaine why it is bad form to send random invites. That hopeless "metagamer" might be the next great RPer if shown the right path. So instead of bashing them down - helping is much more rewarding

[Manshin]

So you dont want your buddy to contact you if he is going into a dungeon, but you do want him to contact you if he wants to hang out and talk? What differance does it make "why" he wants to know where you are, so long as you are on friendly terms?
The point was, its not meta if its a friend your character knows. I agree, if they dont know you, or its an enemy, you have no business asking where they are, but then again, they dont have to answer.
What is this witch hunt about anyone who actually wants to go fight monsters? Ill tell you what, I love a good RP, and spend a lot of time doing it. But I also love the thrill of being caught out in some monster infested land without many potions left. Going into Dungeons and having a challenging fight is just as fun for me as good RP(Unless its really good.). I dont see any problem with going out and banging some heads now and then. If you are the kind of fella that has no fun fighting, and only wants to RP, thats totally cool, but you dont have to brow beat other people with it all the time. Also, if you are a terrible RPer and just like dungeon romps, who am I to say no? Let people do what they want so long as they arent screwing up the server. Eventually, a great majority of people will settle into a good balance.

[soulfien]

You misunderstood me... Let me be more specific.... I don't like people I do not know IC contacting me through tells, sending me party invitations, walking up to me and saying, come on, let's go IC when I've never even spoken to this person before....

I don't mind adventuring with someone if we meet IC without the use of tells or anything ooc provided they do not clash with my PC's personality. In other words, if I'm playing a paladin, I don't want a known priest of Bane coming up and partying with me or vice versa. If I'm playing an elf who cannot speak common and has humans as her favored enemy, I don't want humans coming up and asking me to go adventure with them. Well, they can as long as they do it IC, but they won't get very far.

Now, if someone is on who has a PC that is friends with mine and we have gone out several times before, I don't mind a tell from that person asking where I am.

There, I hope that clears things up

[Orkid]

I myself avoid metagaming like the plague, it's the one sure way to ruin RP quicker and more irreparably than anything else , worse (to me) than someone saying IC "hey u wanna go kill something >" or sending me party invites before ive even met their character (not that it ever happens to me *sniffle* , wh-what?! is it my name? dammit metagamers , spread yer meta-love equally!! *runs away covering face*)
Seriously though, my one meta-gaming pet peve is when people who ive met before come up to me and are like "Hi Kurai" when i have never ever given anyone that part of name , ever. I'm not attacking anyone here , its just my pet peve because (for me) its an important part of my RP. And to me it means the person is either a "tab-monger" or doesnt pay attention to me IC when i Rp with them , i guess that's it ... for now... dun duh DUNNNN!!

[soulfien]

Well, as far as naming, not everyone has a photographic memory and can remember everyone's preferred name.

Like for instance, if you give only your partial name or a wrong name, sometimes all people remember is that you gave a name, not any of the details.

[Artemisa]

Soulfien said:

Well, as far as naming, not everyone has a photographic memory and can remember everyone's preferred name.

Like for instance, if you give only your partial name or a wrong name, sometimes all people remember is that you gave a name, not any of the details.

Just to shoot in a "tip-of-the-day" thingy! (For I know how well it works for me... ;D) Make a note in your journal about it. Just physically writing it down will also help you remembering it better. This is directed to everyone, not just Soulfien, of course

[darkvoid]

If you have a hidden name and a name you always go by, you could put the name you always go by in character creation, and so it will always pop up over your head, and just tell your close friends your real name. I know people aren't necessarily supposed to look at that floating name, but it's there, and it's pretty hard not to. And if someone forgets your name isn't the one that was given and calls you by it, you can just send a friendly tell and I'm sure they would fix it

[DM Richard (Retired)]

They always have for me. On all of my secret accounts I use to spy on... I mean... play with you guys.

[Manshin]

I am going to take this one ridiculious step further. If you send a "tell" to Manshin, bragging about your secret plot that you have against him, or anyone else (As I have often recieved.) I hereby warn you, that I am going to metagame with it to high hell. I will pretend I overheard you saying it, or got you loaded in a bar and you told me everything. Thats right baby! Anything you tell me OOC when it comes plots and skulldiggery is fair game in my book. If you send me a "tell" explaining that Ranan is actually a cross dressing sunite who is planning to hold the world hostage with his femanine good looks, I will tell everyone, and we will set a trap to scar his pretty face with acid.
Before you get your pitch forks and torches, consider that if everyone knows that what they tell others about plots and schemes is fair game to be used, there will be considerable less OOC chatter. After all, if you are the kind of fella that gets so excited about your evil plans that you just cant contain it and must tell others, well then, that should be an IC flaw you have to deal with. The game will take on a far more pure aspect of cloak and dagger. That's what we want right? I dont believe OOC was designed to talk about in-game things. It was meant to ask your buddy Frank how his day has been, or to ask him if he thinks the Wafflemaking feat is a good choice for his Half-halfling/Quazi-Drow Sorcererous Shapeshifting Tattooed Monk, Birdman. Or to tell everyone in your group that you have to go fire off a missle and will be away from the key board. (I personally try to RP that.) Anyway, I wonder what the rest of y'all think about this here idear.

[Orkid]

well, you metagame anyway and follow disguised people who you wouldn't have any reason to suspect their disguised so... i guess its just a good thing i have a high spot/listen and hide/MS ;D

[Misha Aogail]

That's why I continuously tell people FOIP*... Except a select few people.









*For those who missed it, FOIP = Find Out In Play.

[Manshin]

Orkid, thank you for providing me a perfect example. OOC of couse I knew you were in disguise. However, as those who are in the know could tell you, I happen to have a VERY good IC reason to follow anyone who is asking around about the Silver Sheilds in a secretive manner... especially if I dont know them. I'm not going to tell you why of course, and you may go on thinking that I am a Meta gamer. This is the trouble. When it comes to OOC knowledge, you simply have no definate way of defining when a charcter should know what his player knows. Of course when it comes to disguises, there is absoulutly no way to avoid OOC knowledge, other than to create an alternate ego for your PC and play them as the "disguise mode." But I doubt anyone is going to do that.
If it makes you feel better Orkid, I would have followed you no matter who you were for asking me such questions, the fact that you were in disguise had nothing to do with it. Keep in mind, in FRC there are many organizations for good or bad that have secret members not known to each other. Someone poking around, asking questions about a friend or enemy is going to raise questions for certain people. Had you asked about a topic that I had no interest in, I would have shrugged it off and went about my business.
One thing you should be able to assume, most of the core players on FRC like me are not going to meta intentionally. Period. We enjoy the RP side to much for that. So please, in a situation like that, give me the benifit of the doubt. Just because you cant think of a good reason that I am following you, doesnt mean I dont have one. And if I figure something out, dont assume I metagamed just because you dont know how I did it. It cheapens the RP side of FRC. Anyway, blast your listening and spotting skills... I had all my best gear on. Good job giving me the slip. heh. I better start practicing I suppose.