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Wisdom
Nov 23, 2005 2:17:58 GMT -5
Post by Talus on Nov 23, 2005 2:17:58 GMT -5
So I admit. The Wisdom stat completely baffles me when it comes to RP. I don't really understand how to RP it. I mean Kam has a really low Wisdom, and that is only because I hit the default build for Rogue. I try to make him lose his temper to represtent that, but I don't think that should be it. So any advice beyond the description in the books would be helpful.
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Wisdom
Nov 23, 2005 2:30:32 GMT -5
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Nov 23, 2005 2:30:32 GMT -5
Most generally speaking wisdom comes with age, experience and exposure.
A new thief might have a wisdom of 7 compared to the leader of the ring who would be an 18...
I think wisdom is relative.
Imagine Tony Saprano vs Pee-wee Herman! ;D
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Wisdom
Nov 23, 2005 2:34:24 GMT -5
Post by Talus on Nov 23, 2005 2:34:24 GMT -5
So level related? Only useful for game mechanics? Or does this mean I should be dumping every new stat point into Wisdom no matter what class I have?
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Wisdom
Nov 23, 2005 3:01:41 GMT -5
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Nov 23, 2005 3:01:41 GMT -5
So level related? Only useful for game mechanics? Or does this mean I should be dumping every new stat point into Wisdom no matter what class I have? Crimeny.. I wrote the perfect response and it got wiped! I am certainly not telling you to "dump" anything into wisdom. Here is my take. Wisdom is the difference between a fighter charging headlong into a conflict he knows he will lose... Wisdom is knowing when the battle cannot be won... Wisdom is knowing the difference between opening that book and keeping it closed even though you might be smart enough to read it but wish to defer it to a greater scholar! Wisdom tells you when you are "barking up the wrong tree"... Wisdom allows you to see actions as they might present themselves in the future as related to the present... Wisdom allows one to reference past actions (such as) sticking your finger in a mouse-trap and knowing that if you do it again you will get the same pain! The way I see it... memory IS largely intelligence, especially for casters... intelligence without wisdom will create a person who is DOOMED to repeat the same mistakes over and over... like blowing oneself up! Or failure to recognize the same omens over and over, or failure to see the "forest for the trees", or traps that are set the same way... etc. I really hope that helps.
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Wisdom
Nov 23, 2005 11:34:58 GMT -5
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Nov 23, 2005 11:34:58 GMT -5
Here is my take on wisdom. I agree with Justi in that it represents common sense, but I don't think this is the full aspect of it.
I think that it also represents the ability to "see things as they are". When a cleric/druid looks around them, they see the world in a different state than most people do. They need a high wisdom because they must be able to transcend the world around them to commune with their god/nature. I always think of Ralph Waldo Emmerson and Henry David Thoreau when I think of the wisdom stat for clerics.
But wisdom also represents your ability to resist being controlled/manipulated. In PnP, the sense motive skill is wisdom based. This is because when someone tells you a lie, you are more able to discern whether or not there is a motive behind it, and thus it could be a fallicy (really sense motive shouldnt just tell you someone is lying to you, but rather, the statement they are telling you is not being made for the reasons they stated). Here is an example: Hroth and Kam are sitting in a bar. Hroth tells Kam that he wishes to sell Kam an item at a discounted rate (lets neglect Kams merchant background). With a low wis, Kam might readily accept a deal, or at least that the price he mentioned is a deal. With a high wis, Kam might realize that Hroth is a money grubbing SOB (from what he knows of hroth) and that this deal may not in fact be a deal. Mind you, I said neglect Kam's merchant background, so this example does not give anyone the right to go up to Kam and say: "You have a low wis, give me a better deal". But like justi said, wis is something of an experience thing too. So even though Kam gets ripped off the first time by hroth, this doesnt mean that he has to continued to be ripped off by him (but he must find out he has been ripped off first).
Likewise, wisdom influences your will saving throw. The reason this is, is because you are resisting a temptation to fall susceptible to an illusion or have your mind controlled in another way. So a character might be walking through the streets of suzail and then an umber hulk appears suddenly before him. With a low wis, the character will readily assume that this creature is in fact the real thing, without thinking of why or even how it would have just appeared like that. A character with a high wis, will be able to discern that, "Hey there is no way an Umber Hulk would "appear". There isnt even a tunnel from the ground and the guards wouldnt let it walk around readily".
Wis is tied to your spot and listen checks because these aren't how well you "see" or "hear". It is your ability to tell when something is out of place, and just doesnt make sense. You walk into a bright lit room and notice an unusual shadow behind a curtain. You are walking through the woods and hear a splash in a river and recognise it as a footfall rather than usual river sounds.
Some say that wisdom relates to how calm/brash someone is, but I dont think this is the full aspect of the stat. I think characters with high wisdoms can make hasty decisions, because they can decide what the outcome will be more readily with a high wisdom.
Anyways, this is my take on wisdom stat. It is relatively hard to play, and sometimes you should let yourself suffer as a result of a low wis score (ie, allow yourself to be lied to, make decisions that may not result with the best outcome). I know there have been times when Hroth has made a plan, and as a player I kind of slap myself in the head and say, "This is a terrible idea".
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Wisdom
Nov 27, 2005 3:52:20 GMT -5
Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 27, 2005 3:52:20 GMT -5
WOW thanks a bunch...i've been having the same problem as talus too...THANKs!
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Wisdom
Nov 27, 2005 14:16:06 GMT -5
Post by Spooks on Nov 27, 2005 14:16:06 GMT -5
I think it was quad who told me that roughly...
Intellgience is Memory Wisdom is Recognition
Intelligent people can remember spells, quotes, definitions etc. but can still lack the common sense to apply it properly.
Someone with a high wisdom can see a situation for all it's worth, such as noticing changes in things, and offhanded calculations of odd/likeliness/predictions/etc but might not be able to firgure out a sentence of 1337 if they aren't very smart.
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Wisdom
Nov 27, 2005 14:33:04 GMT -5
Post by Talus on Nov 27, 2005 14:33:04 GMT -5
WOW thanks a bunch...i've been having the same problem as talus too...THANKs! Well that is why I ask these like I am a complete idiot. So I can get the best explanation possible, and maybe somebody else can get some help also. Or maybe I am just a complete idiot sometime
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Wisdom
Nov 30, 2005 1:24:09 GMT -5
Post by DM Grizwald on Nov 30, 2005 1:24:09 GMT -5
nope im an idiot to, but i like it when you take the idiot blame
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Wisdom
May 19, 2006 12:01:51 GMT -5
Post by Manshin on May 19, 2006 12:01:51 GMT -5
Wisdom IS rough to RP. I like to think of Intelligence as being a big stack of papers, and wisdom being the file cabnet they go in. A person with high intellegnece may be able to dredge up tons of info and lore, but if their cabnet is a mess, they may have trouble knowing what goes where.
I have always wondered if I was RPing this correctly, so here is a bases of what Manshin does to represent his low Wis. I suppose others can use this for a guide, but I am also open to RP suggestions as I am always open for learning better RP technique.
The way I RP it with Manshin is that he knows quite a bit and is good with logic, but he doesnt get simple things like jokes and any subtle nuances of a convorsation. A lot of things tend to go over his head and he finds himself wondering what is wrong while others shake their heads. Also, he will tend to blurt out someones name while they are trying to keep it secret by accident (Ok, fine, thats MY fault, but I also have an 8 wisdom). I also RP a complete lack of interest or patience for the divine. This is representative of Manshins inability to bridge the mental gap between the mortal realm and the divine realm. To him, gods are a bunch of spoiled children fighting with their toys.
People say he is wise when he thinks his way though things, or regergetates "Bruce Lee-esk" sayings about this or that which he picked up from his masters, but honestly, I try to follow a completely and starkly logical line of thinking when strategizing and im not sure if you need wisdom to think logically. It seems like the wisdom comes into the "Yes we can do it... but though it may achieve good end, do the ends really justify the means here?" part of things. This sort of thing is where the lines are blurred for me.
Manshin
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Wisdom
May 24, 2006 16:39:44 GMT -5
Post by DM the Usurper on May 24, 2006 16:39:44 GMT -5
think of it like this. Intelligence is that newly graduated student with all this information that he just learned. Wisdom is that supervisor that knows why the new graduate would think something would work, but has seen it himself and knows that it just doesn't work that way. that make any sense then again. Does experience constitute wisdom? *sigh* I give up lol..ask webster ;D
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Wisdom
May 24, 2006 17:25:25 GMT -5
Post by ShadowCatJen on May 24, 2006 17:25:25 GMT -5
then again. Does experience constitute wisdom? *sigh* I give up lol..ask webster ;D When you look at it, it does. I can recall a few games that gave you more experience points if you had a higher wisdom score. It is one of the harder stats to roleplay. Anyone think that "street smarts" would be a wisdom thing? I mean, you'd have to have the wisdom to see that sort of thing and recognize it for what it is. The way I have it with Mynian (flat 10 Wisdom) is that she is street and business savvy, but her paranoia and the way she deals with relationships is meant to even it back out to something average.
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Wisdom
May 24, 2006 17:39:13 GMT -5
Post by vercingettorix on May 24, 2006 17:39:13 GMT -5
Wisdom is the ability to put to practical use the knowledge your Intelligence score provides you with.
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Wisdom
May 24, 2006 17:48:42 GMT -5
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on May 24, 2006 17:48:42 GMT -5
Wisdom is the ability to put to practical use the knowledge your Intelligence score provides you with. This mean that a wizard with 18 int and 8 wis wouldn't know to cast spells? Guess it comes in what you meant by "practical use".
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Wisdom
May 24, 2006 18:03:33 GMT -5
Post by MTGPackFoils on May 24, 2006 18:03:33 GMT -5
Amra has a low Wisdom and I play her as not "getting it"...when it comes to jokes...comments...compliments...etc.
Perfect example: *Amra notices a magical portal* "Hey, where does this go?" *hops in the portal*
...usually not a -wise- thing to do...
Aeron is slowly becoming wise and is seeing the world in a different light...
anyway...
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Wisdom
May 25, 2006 0:28:57 GMT -5
Post by soulfien on May 25, 2006 0:28:57 GMT -5
common wizard taunt: "You don't have the wisdom God gave you the intelligence to use!"
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Wisdom
May 28, 2006 10:02:52 GMT -5
Post by Aodhan the Unusual on May 28, 2006 10:02:52 GMT -5
The best way I've had wisdom defined for me is this:
Walking across an intersection, but checking to make sure the way is clear - average wisdom
Walking across a busy intersection without looking both ways - low wisdom.
Continuing to walk across the same busy intersection without looking both ways and after five hostpital visits, several broken bones, multiple concussions, and various transplants - No wisdom at all. You should be locked in a room to save everyone else from your lack of common sense.
And remember: Just because someone is INTELLIGENT does not mean they have COMMON SENSE. I know quite a few geniouses that would actually do the above mentioned.
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Wisdom
Jun 8, 2006 10:51:18 GMT -5
Post by sneakingyoda on Jun 8, 2006 10:51:18 GMT -5
With Age comes wisdom.
Wisdom doesn't always come with Age.
To me, Wisdom is the application of your Intellegence in a pratical matter to the rest of the world. As many have said above: Wisdom= Common Sense.
But I guess I wanted to say that Wisdom and inexperiance can exist together within a character. Though often they are treated as the same thing by some.
I've met some very wise children in real life and have comepletely been baffled by them. It just makes your mind grind to a hault when you realize thata four year old just imparted some advice that your best friend couldn't of said better.
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Panros
Old School
Sneak Attack - Reach out and touch someone.
Posts: 479
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Wisdom
Jun 13, 2006 11:30:02 GMT -5
Post by Panros on Jun 13, 2006 11:30:02 GMT -5
Wisdom would be using your past experiences, and what you know of other's past experiences, and letting them guide you, and sometimes others, in your present life. A wise person would have experienced both sides of one thing then using that experience relate it to a current and similar situation and choose the best option for good or the lesser of two evils. An unwise person wouldn't recall the past and relate it to his current situation and therefore might repeat his past actions without knowing it.
Othertimes wisdom is looking at a situation in its simplist form then using common sense give a simple solution to the otherwise seemingly large problem.
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strangelander
New Member
Bunnies need Intimidate checks too...(Fluffy Nub Wiggling DC16)
Posts: 13
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Wisdom
Jun 21, 2006 13:09:21 GMT -5
Post by strangelander on Jun 21, 2006 13:09:21 GMT -5
Well, in terms of NWN, I like to think Wisdom is also in part the bravado of the character, as the score is tied to the will save.
Fearlessness or strength of spirit, either would suit... specific to the divine classes, I would also admit strength of faith.
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Wisdom
Jun 23, 2006 5:04:44 GMT -5
Post by soulfien on Jun 23, 2006 5:04:44 GMT -5
When you look at it, it does. I can recall a few games that gave you more experience points if you had a higher wisdom score. Man walks up to half-orc and calls him an ugly half-breed and insults his mother. Man gets belted across the room. Man shows half-orc respect the next time he sees him. Man has gained wisdom.
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strangelander
New Member
Bunnies need Intimidate checks too...(Fluffy Nub Wiggling DC16)
Posts: 13
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Wisdom
Jun 23, 2006 10:18:46 GMT -5
Post by strangelander on Jun 23, 2006 10:18:46 GMT -5
Half-orc walks up to man and vomits gout of utter half-orckian nonsense.
Man turns and walks away.
Half-orc joins other half-orcs and together they make louder gout of utter half-orckian nonsense.
No one gains anything.
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