Dice rolls driving character interaction

[Falura]

I was talking with another elf last night when a man walked up. After several words were exchanged, he attempted to get my character, a female elf, to go for a walk with him.

This man had made a somewhat unfavorable impression on my character, and she is also not inclined to simply walk off with a stranger unless he has a good reason. Because of this, she rebutted his offers of going out for dinner, a drink, etc. Finally, he did a charisma roll in an effort to convince my character.

My companion argues that persuade rolls and such are designed to be used against NPCs and not PCs. I've heard this discussion before. The other player seemed to think that I was afraid of traveling with his character, while I say that it would be out-of-character for me to neglect my character development for sake of a lucky dice roll.

In the end, we parted ways. I would contend that refraining from rolling dice in such a case does not show any lack of roleplay on my part. I had fun interacting with the player in question, but being persuaded by a roll seemed OOC in this case.

What does the staff think?

[theseeker]

the die bags are for use on pc as well/ no npc is going to roll unless a dm is in it.. saying that it has to be with in reason eg someone selling a sword for 5000gp and you die roll to try to get it for100gp

[DM Richard (Retired)]

The dice bags are there to help things along in a fair manner when things "could go either way". They are not there to force a player to do something that is out of character without a good reason.

Example: John sees Bob yank John's sword out of his scabbard and run off down the street. John catches Bob. Bob gives John a sob story about needing money for medicine for his sick mother. Bob and John roll to see if John believes Bob's story. John ends up believing Bob. Does that mean he lets Bob go? Nope it just means John believes Bob's story. Depending on his alignment John may let Bob go or he might do something else.

Also remember there are modifiers in DnD.

Example continued: Two weeks later John sees Bob stealing from Roxie. As Roxie chases Bob by John, John trips Bob. Bob once again caught tells John that he isn't stealing that this item is his stolen from him by Roxie.

If John recognizes Bob then there wouldn't be a very good chance for him to convince John of his innocence. As a matter of fact let’s say what Bob says really happened. Bob would still have a pretty good modifier against him when trying to convince John.

Without a DM around at the time, you will have to work things out fairly and really consider if what you are doing would make a difference to their character's actions. Not just say "I won the dice role. You have to do it."

One last thing in NWN skills are not set up for opposed rolls between characters. There is no sense motive to counter bluff and the list goes on. IF you chose to roll dice because things could go either way you will need to use base abilities like Wisdom vs. Charisma. Unless of course, there just happens to be a correct match up of skills in existence.

[garlandbrinsbane]

From a player perspective I would rather use the die rolls for things you 'can't quite do' IC, such as blocking someone from getting into a door way (which requires a physical skill check) or holding your breath (con check) or things of the non-social type.

In 'the real worl' you could be convinced that going somewhere with someone would be fun but still ultimatley decide not to go. It's your decision...not the decision of a plastic items with multiple numbers painted on it.

[Solinox]

Falura said:

I was talking with another elf last night when a man walked up. After several words were exchanged, he attempted to get my character, a female elf, to go for a walk with him.

hey i gnoe who that elf was

(For those of you that don't know, it was Ajax, my elven druid character ).

Anyway, for those of you that believe that Persuade should be used for PC interaction, I would like to point out the following passage from the Neverwinter Nights manual, which describes the Persuade skill:

"The character has the option to persuade others to reveal addition information about plots or to give bonus treasure."

And underneath,

"Check: The DC is determined by the NPC being spoken to."

(This is on page 97 of the Platinum Edition NwN manual.)

Clearly, the Persuade skill is not meant to be used in PC to PC interaction. If it was, there would be a Sense Motive skill available, as in D&D. I would also like to direct the reader to page 71 of the D&D Player's Handbook, which outlines that Diplomacy (the equivalent of persuade) checks are used only with NPCs.

But then again, this is all up to the DMs that run the servers.

[Sabremoe]

The game developers didn't make a dice bag either....

[MithrilBlade]

Hm yes biggest issue here IS the lack of sense motive, it goes to persuade, bluff, partly taunt if it's used in RP reasons and not lowering one's AC.
I usually don't ignore if someone does a roll with skill that doesn't really help him/her in combat, because it shows the person have interest RPing the skills rather just picking the best ones, but I will not do anything they want just if they have uber high persuade/bluff, of that I decide personally.
Usually will save is good alternative for sense motive.

Intimidate is a skill that should be taken more often and ESPECIALLY roleplayed more often. Intimidate is actually not sense motive roll, but level + wisdom modifier (+possible saves against fear, if immunity person cannot be intimidated) against the intimidate roll.
This is why it can be roleplayed easily, not every lv 1 character can intimidate an archmage even if he had low wisdom.
I used intimidation in another server, when my dwarf was about to crack some skulls he always gave a warning first, mostly people ignored it and that lead to battle.
If however someone intimidates my character in FRC I will RP it, at least show a bit more respect and/or back off, but that doesn't mean I'll jump in the well if he tells me to.

All social skills should require both sides' approval, nobody can really force you to RP that your character got persuaded to sell a weapon cheaper or bluffed to believe someone is son of Asmodeus and going to bring hell on earth, no matter what roll would they make.

[Artemisa]

My two cents...

When making a bluff/persuade roll you should use common sense! Not everything can be bluffed and you can certainly not persuade people to do anything just because you roll a 20.

If my character is asked to go travelling with someone she doesn't like at all they will need to roll pretty high AND be able to give her a good reason to why she should go on that travel.

Your character wouldn't, for example, commit suicide just because a very persuading person tells him/her to. Just like in real life our characters can't be bluffed or persuaded into anything.

[RPR]

These rolls are excelent to use if we wish to grab someone. Then this someone may attempt to, first use his/her agilty to evade the grabing arm and if failed can even try to force to get free.
The use of intimidation seems great too. It would not force no one to run scared but would make an impression.Could then, be RPed.

As for the use of rolls to force the female elf to go for a walk, i do not think that is a good use at all.
Before all, we shouldnt try to force some actions that can and should be rped. Others should not be force when they can be absurd or completly out of char.
In this case, the female elf did not intend to go. The roll could just be used to let the impression of the man. However,i would oppose to force the elf to do somthing she did not wished at all or would be against her char motivations.

An example of a situation that happened to me in another server:
I was playing a female human. She was with a friend, at night, in the outskirts of a city.
This friend had already a scare when a group of 3 vampires attempted to kill his familiar. Would be already a factor to consider.
These 3 vampires meet with my char and her friend. None of us knew they were vampires, IC.
After some words they tell us that they need help outside the outskirts and far from the guard of the city.

If this was well RPed, they could have even persuaded my char. She was a very good heart, allways willing to help and quite innocent. She could have trusted them.
But her friend was there and knew more.
However, they just decided to roll a persuation to try and get my char and her friend out to kill.
After telling us they needed help but never responding to the "why?" or "what is the problem?" question, they just rolled.
I saw in that an attempt to force something to happen, using rolls, that should have had more RP. And i strongly desagree for this kind of use to the rolls.

We should not try to drive the situations by the rolls, forcing others to comply. If not, we would end having odd situations controled by maxed chars.
Forcing chars to do what they would not do, is wrong. Perhaps only trying to leave an impression that can be RPed.
Solving situations that could go both ways is alright.