How to role play dying

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

So I am a little confused as to how to role play dying and going to the Fugue Plane. Now I have read a little about people on the Fugue, either waiting for their god to show up and claim them, or wandering aimlessly, not knowing they are dead. However, even though I do love RPing, I find it hard for myself to just sit around in the Fugue. But my question is how to really RP the aftermath. The loss of experience would either signify a loss of memory and or an illness/sickness that has caused the hero need for rest to recover. But Hrothgar has died many times now, and I try to RP it when I am travelling with new people, but like some of my old travelling mates, we just run through like nothing too bad has happened. We will talk about it, but I was just wondering if there was a good way to effectively RP death?

[Theramin]

I think you are doing it right with Hrothgar there. As a seasoned adventurer dies more and more, they might get more used to it? I'm never quite sure myself, as the books don't detail it very well. All it says is that afterwards the ressurected character feels 'drained'.

[Gordy101st]

It all depends on how hardcore youre willing to be really. In a permadeath server the death of a character could often mean you had to start again and this can be done here through choice.

If you wont have fun like that then I suppose youre just going to have to act 'drained' and mope around. I dont think anyone could ever really get used to death I mean, come on, its DEATH. The idea of dying and coming back over and over may seem rediculous to you and make you feel like the roleplay is a bit weak, but its ok because:

IT IS.

Just dont worry about it too much . I'm sure most people would have more fun doing a bit of 'iffy' roleplay and being able to carry on playing their char than playing really well and then having to delete the char in a second.,

[kenny26]

i don pretty much the same thing as was mentioned in the first post.

once, i went to the fugue with a new party member and we stood in front of the portal to the prime material plane.
i roleplayed the soul of a person long-gone approaching me. the conversation was one-sided since there was no spirit or anything, but i just roleplayed speaking to thin air (only my character can see the spirit if it comes to him, right? ).

(s)he handled it nicely, roleplaying something like "are you nuts? speaking to htin air..." and then began putting the pieces together after a little while.
very entertaining, but if there is no new people around, i skip the whole thing running out of there.

maybe i'll act a little drained after i exit to the prime material plane.

and a possible explaination for the XP loss and how it'd make you feel:

in d&d (the pen and paper game), there is no escaping the fugue on your own. you can only be raised by a cleric.
he performs a ritual wherein he guides your soul back to it's body on the material plane.
so first you went to the fuge, then to the plane of your deity (or kelemvor's nice vacancies in the case of non-believers... ;D ), and then the cleric guides you all the way back. that's one helluva trip to make...
as a result you lose one level permanently.

in nwn you die alot more often and there very very rarely is a cleric who can raise you so things have been made easier.
you can "raise yourself" or any char can use a scroll to raide you. also, you don't lose a full level but only X amount of experience points per level.
and being raised by someone else usually removes this penalty completely.

so if you're accustomed to roleplaying death in d&d, you can just do it the same way in nwn, and you don't need to be as serious about it in nwn since it happens alot...

that's my 2 cents...

[Luchiadh]

In my opinion, the Fugue Plane thing is a little off the mark. Most of the single-player games have quick-outs, ways that the character is 'saved at the last moment'. The reason for this is that it's more and more impossible to adequately roleplay a character who's 'died sixty times!' as anything but a completely fearless warmonger.

Think about it: The CN Barbarian dies for the first time, goes to the fugue plane, and da da da da... comes back to LIFE! Sure, he's a little groggy, but none the worse for wear! Once more unto the breach, dear friends!

After a while, when it became clear that this was going to happen repeatedly, the Barbarian learned not to fear *anything*. Great Red Wyrm? No problem! Lemme get my axe! What's the worst it can do, kill me? Pfah.

Basically, it takes the bite out of death in an RP sense. The only fear is by the player, not the character. The player has to endure a 100 XP x Character Level penalty.

My way around it has been to completely ignore that part of the Mod, I confess. When Archon died with Vind in attendance, Archon went to the Fugue Plane, wandered for a few seconds, then (after passing through the first archway and into the halls themselves) was 'transported' to Shar's domain, as he's a follower. Vind was there in the mod, tugging on him and trying to figure out why Archon was wandering and talking to himself (to the shadows that populate Shar's domain) and referring to someone out there as 'Mistress'. Finally, as they'd made their way all the way through, Archon's side of the conversation revealed that Shar was sending him back to the world for another go at it.

Vind and Archon awoke with very different memories of what death was and had almost nothing in common about their experiences. While I like my way of doing it, it's also sort of cheating the mod, since I basically have to roleplay on my own and everyone else is kind of left to wonder what the hell I'm doing.

Just my two cents.

Personally I think that the various deities should be represented somewhere in Cormyr, each with their own temple. A PC, upon registering with that deity with the Deity Selector Thingie(tm) in the Welcome Area should then be resurrected and returned to *that* spot in Cormyr. This also requires that adventuring bands have to find their way back together rather than simply dying as a group, walking through the Fugue Plane sharing drinks and snickers about what a screw-up that was, pop back to the real world and have another go.

...yeah. You get a cyber-cookie if you read all that.

[Silencer Nate]

Hmm...Seril has only died soloing, so my I've been able to slip by the RPed death. Other times (twice) I've been raised by scrolls, which was nice. However, there was once when everyone in the party died except Seril, and before I went to get scrolls/help, they all respawned (which irritated me a little) However, once in town we RPed that they took a different path than me, since there was a -lot- of concusion in the fight we had. So while Seril took the way he came back, the rest of the party when deeper into the building and found a secret door out. *shrugs* Whatever works.

[Talus]

I have a question about being raised by a scroll. How much do you remember of what just happened. I mean if you were killed by someone and then another person came along and raised you but didn't see your death, would you remember who or what killed you?

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

As far as I know, you remember all the events up until your death, though some things might be a bit hazy. Here are a few examples:

You are walking down the street. Our favorite bad guy raven shows up. He walks up to you, tells you his full name, explains he is not wearing a mask or any disguise and then proceeds to kill you. This your character would remember in clarity.

Next situation. You are walking down the street. You hear whispers from the shadows. You decide to investigate. Out pops two unsavory fellows demanding some of your money. You decide to be the good paladin you are, and bring them to justice. They dont like this and kill you. When raised, you would remember two fellows, maybe race, probably not any physical description.

Final situation. You are walking down the street. Someone comes up behind you and knifes you and wanders off. You would not remember anything about them.

This is just my take on things. Pretty much if you dont go to the fugue, you remember most things. Now, the stipulation here is that the person that finds you and raises you within like a couple of hours after the event. Otherwise, your soul begins to drift and the harder it is for it to be returned to your body. More memories around the time of your death would probably be lost.

Well this is my take on things. I'd like to hear other peoples opinions.

[Munroe]

My impression of the server rules was that you forget 30 minutes of the play prior to your death (and remember nothing of being dead) whether you are raised by scroll/cleric or whether you respawn.

My preferred method is 30 minutes for respawn, 15 for Raise Dead (scroll or cleric) and 5 for Resurrection (scroll or cleric). 30 for respawn and Raise Dead is also good but I think Resurrection should carry the added benefit of more memory retained.

Never remember who killed you. You can take guesses but you can never say with certainty and have to rely on someone else to tell you.

Example:

Bill and Juan are arguing. Bill stabs Juan and kills him. Juan is Resurrected and thinks he remembers he and Bill were arguing but the details may be fuzzy. Juan may suspect Bill killed him but he can't be sure.

Second example:

Bill and Juan are arguing. Bill marches off in a huff. Some random Cyricist steps out, says a few words to Juan, they fight, and the Cyricist kills Juan to get flesh for a sacrifice. Juan is Resurrected and thinks he remembers he and Bill were arguing but the details may be fuzzy. Juan may suspect Bill killed him but he can't be sure.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Im pretty sure the 30 min thing was for when you respawn and travel through the fugue. But hey, you play how you wanna play, and I'll play the way I wanna play . And if you stab me, and i see your face, and 2 sec later, a cleric runs up and raises me, I'm gonna know who did it Now if it is 5 mins, thats a horse of a different color...

[Munroe]

No one would ever kill anyone if it was that easy for the finger to be pointed if that person were ever brought back.

As for my character stabbing your character in the face, I play a good-aligned support character so I doubt it. I might be inclined to let the body sit a few minutes before Raising it though so it doesn't spring up and go "Character X stabbed me in the face!" That's just my line of thought though.

[RPR]

I agree with the 30 mins.
However it may be hard to keep track of this time so...
At least i usualy RP death in the way that the char is brought back dazed or weak and in need for a rest.
The char will not remeber the traumatic moment of death, neither what killed it.
This allows to cover by RP the entity of an assassin. My only fear is the abuse of this way. A player that would go around killing many PC's and evocking that no one should remember him.
Because of this, i usualy try to see if the PvP had some logic and RP sence.

So, if the killing was valid to RP and not a result of an abuse from a wild PvPer, then i allways RP death and my chars will not remember what happened.
I'll try to aply the 30 mins but will be difficult to track the time well.

I usualy take in consideration the way and time that passed since the death of the char.
If someone raised the char a few moments after the death,i used to rp it as dazed,weak but also, not remember what happend, so no notion of who killed my char.
Others may mention the name of the killer and the situation. My char will try to deny it, be chocked and maybe accept it after some time.

I have a few questions.
Should the amount of memory loss be related to the time taken to raise the char?
And the way it was done? (scrolls or cleric)
Or we should aply to all situations a long loss of memory, the 30 mins.
Meaning the char probably would not even remember the venture he/she would have gone into?

In PvP, i would like to know the reason and if the killer wished to get rid of the victim.
If it was a result of an assassination or to remove a key char from his way, then i will try to place my char away for some time, Rping defeat or trying not to influence the situation for some time. Maybe until his quest is complete or for a recovering time needed to my chars, if they were assassinated or executed.

*edited*:By the way,sometimes it is better to let the victim alive so he/she will spread what happened.This if the agressor wishes to make his evil reputation.
*edite2*:Also, i usualy forget anythign that happened to my chars while int he fuge plane,once their soul is pulled back to the world he was.Hope i am doing well there.

[Munroe]

I have a few questions.
Should the amount of memory loss be related to the time taken to raise the char?
And the way it was done? (scrolls or cleric)
Or we should aply to all situations a long loss of memory, the 30 mins.
Meaning the char probably would not even remember the venture he/she would have gone into?

I don't think the amount of memory loss should be related to the time taken to raise the character but rather by the spell used to Raise the character. Whether by spell or cleric directly doesn't matter as long as it's the same spell as I see it, whether Raise Dead or Resurrection. Raise Dead is Raise Dead, Resurrection is Resurrection. As a scribing cleric, I would be offended if my scrolls weren't given the treatment I thought they deserved.

As I said above, I think the server rule is 30 minutes whatever the method. However, if I'm out on a quest with someone, it's incredibly annoying for them to have to stop and explain it to everyone that they have to Raise what's been happening and where they are so if I get brought back with a spell rather than respawning, I'll usually just assume I forget a couple minutes and probably can't be sure I was actually dead. With a Raise Dead, you suffer upon return anyway because you're at 1 hp so you're probably not too concerned about the past couple minutes anyway. Resurrection brings you back to full health so you would probably be more disoriented than anything, but I'd still forget whatever killed me. Otherwise, death is just a gold punishment. It's not just a gold punishment, you were dead and there should be repercussions.

That's just my view really. What I do know is you shouldn't remember anything about the fugue plane.

[Misha Aogail]

I'm with Hroth on this one. Of course, something that was brought up by RPR should probably be discussed as well.

If someone kills you and does something with your body (cremate it and spread the ashes, tie it to a rock and drop it over a cliff into the ocean, give it to ravaging wolverines, etc.) your character should NOT come back from that. Especially if there was no logical way for someone to find enough of your body to be taken back to get raised. I'm not going to mention names, but there have been a few people that I have talked to via tells saying that no matter what happened, whether it was me or someone else, if their character died, they'd bring them right back because they weren't 'ready for the character to die.' I don't know about the rest of you, but this is REALLY bad RPing and is really the only downside to player-allowed perma-death. Especially after a well planned and executed death.

Anyhoo... I've had my rant. Continue.

[Munroe]

There is a spell that was left out of NWN called True Resurrection. It is a level 9 cleric spell. It was left out of NWN because engine-wise it serves the same purpose as Resurrection. RP-wise it is much more powerful, however. A bit of info:

Raise Dead (level 5 spell) can Raise someone whose body is mostly intact for a time period of 1 day per level of caster after death (and that person is willing to return).

Resurrection (level 7 spell) can Resurrect someone with any part of them (head, finger, eye, bone) for a time period of 10 years per level of caster after death. Clerics get level 7 spells at level 13 so they can Resurrect someone who has died in the past 130 years so long as there is a body part (and that person is willing to return).

True Resurrection (level 9 spell) can Resurrect someone without possessing any part of them for a time period of 10 years per level of caster after death. Clerics get level 9 spells at level 17 so they can Resurrect (via True Resurrection) someone who has died in the past 170 years so long as they have in mind the person they are trying to Resurrect (and that person is willing to return).

None of the spells to return the dead to life can bring back someone who has died of old age. No Raise/Res spells can bring back someone who is undead but they can be used on bodies that were undead but have been "destroyed". Some undead, such as vampires, have their entire bodies destroyed when they are destroyed as undead, only True Resurrection may bring back someone who was a vampire or other such undead creature that was destroyed to its last trace.

The reason I say this is because there is never a guarantee that someone you killed isn't going to come back, it just makes it very unlikely. Just because none of the player characters can cast True Resurrection (without DM intervention) does not mean that there are not NPCs out in the world who can cast it. In the case of True Resurrection, all it would take would be knowing the person was killed and finding a cleric who had been granted the spell. To that end, I feel that perma-death should always be the player's option, not a requirement.

[Gusty]

Like Bassa said some time ago, when you are fugued you should play as if you forgot the last 30 minutes of 'real time'. or 3 hours of game time minimum. Personally I think you should lose your memory back to the point of XP loss. If you lose 1000 xp take yourself back in time to that point and see how that plays. That is not the official ruling but makes sense to me.

Also if you are fugued it doesnt matter if Raven pins a note to your body that he killed you, you will not remember the event of it. Do not play as if you do.

[Cole]

You mentioned that you felt memory loss should go back to the point of XP loss. I know you said that was unofficial, but I thought I would mention a draw back to that plan. Some people gain xp MUCH faster than others. One fella would loose an hour of memory, others would loose a month.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

I would agree with Cole on this one as I have only gained about 2K in over a month (RL) and would lose most of it in one fell swope. Hroth wouldnt even remember that he had a guild too take care of if that happened ...

[Gusty]

like I said it is not official but guess what. Death is supposed to suck. It should be worse then imprisonment. That is why the Death penalty is more severe then life in jail... Supposedly.

[Mr. Baboon]

DM said:

That is why the Death penalty is more severe then life in jail... Supposedly.

So you'd rather live your life in a small, confined cell with someone who may be very dangerous, living a terrible life, and never being able to function in the real world again, than just be killed and get it over with? =P

On a more serious note... I believe people can make good judgements regarding there deaths, in cases such as your own, Quad (since I'm in a similiar situation).

[racestark]

I've seen it done another way, but this only works with a party.
Say there are 5 of you out and 2 happen to die. No one brought a raise dead srcoll, etc. The players who died didn't wait to see if you're going back to town to get a scroll or find help and respawned, and I agree, that is kind of annoying. Instead, you could rp that two of you are going to carry one of them each on your back and see if Merriss, for example, would help them for a promise of aid to his church or something of the like.
Hopefully the two dead people will be waiting silently in the temple when you rp to Merriss that they need help (I usually send them a tell to let them know what we are doing). Then just walk away as if they are now in his care, and when you see them next, just rp that you are glad to see them better now. (Or they were foolish to run into the thick of things like that or whatever the situation calls for. You all know what I mean). But then they can now rp that they weren't exactly dead, just knocked out cold and maybe with a concussion.

[DM Richard (Retired)]

Something else to keep in mind, we have talked about death erasing the last 30 minutes of your memory (mainly to stop endless PVP). This is the case if you are raised by scroll, spell, or if you respawn. If you need an IC reason for your memory loss remember you were beaten to death or nearly so (depending on how your attacker and you play it out) you could easily suffer brain damage from the magical or physical attack.