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Jun 16, 2007 19:46:21 GMT -5
Post by brian333 on Jun 16, 2007 19:46:21 GMT -5
I know FRC is a PvP server, and I don't mind PvP when there is a role-play reason for it.
I do not like walking around miles from a PC I don't know and suddenly getting tagged with "Dislike." What's the Role-Play justification to even consider dislike? Is your PC a mass-murderer out to kill everyone on the server? Am I about to engage in random violence with another player?
I do not wish to participate in PvP without a compelling story-based reason for doing so. Setting me to "Dislike" is an invitation to engage in PvP whether you intend it that way or not.
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Jun 16, 2007 19:52:32 GMT -5
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jun 16, 2007 19:52:32 GMT -5
I know FRC is a PvP server, and I don't mind PvP when there is a role-play reason for it. I do not like walking around miles from a PC I don't know and suddenly getting tagged with "Dislike." What's the Role-Play justification to even consider dislike? Is your PC a mass-murderer out to kill everyone on the server? Am I about to engage in random violence with another player? I do not wish to participate in PvP without a compelling story-based reason for doing so. Setting me to "Dislike" is an invitation to engage in PvP whether you intend it that way or not. As a PvP server - there are certain characters who will log in and dislike you, whether they *like* you or not. It's nothing personal. Agreed, though. While slightly irresponsible, it is a current means of dealing with the PvP situation. Can you see beyond it?
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Jun 16, 2007 20:34:28 GMT -5
Post by AnvilX on Jun 16, 2007 20:34:28 GMT -5
*** Just My Opinion *** Same thing happened to me last night. Shortly after logging onto the server I was put on “dislike” by a character that I have never met IC and was no where near them. Personally to me that is Meta Gaming, *just my opinion*. The only way I could rationalize an in game reason is that the character is some type of evil murderer and plans on killing anyone he meets (but I think that is even stretching it). Out of character I think it is just someone trolling to be a PKer and not a big RPer to the server. Also, I thought there were rules about Pking… both sides had to agree and there had to be a RP reason? I am not sure but I think that is so. So, I took the coach from Isenhold to Redmist and then as I was purchasing a ticket from Redmist to Suzail I saw the person whom put me on “dislike” summon a ghoul/ Death knight. I took the coach to Suzail (as it was materializing) and as I was waiting for a comrade to show, I had a sneak attacked performed on me by a summoned ghoul/ death knight that took almost half my hitpoints. I guess I lost on some check because I could not fight back and ran over to a corner with things floating about my head. Then I notice the character who put me on dislike and that I saw in Redmist appear near the caravan, (I am not sure if he arrived by caravan or materialized as I was too busy being attacked). About this time my friend showed up and the character who had me attacked just walked by and said/ did nothing. I didn’t say anything to the character just let DM Rich and Valkyrie know. Then I went on and had a great night of Rping. To be honest, I still am not sure what the character intended. It was pretty stupid to me and had no RP value what so ever. If you want to try to PK characters at least make it a worthwhile role play reason other wise your just a PK Troll. *** Just MY Opinion**** ;D ;D ;D
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Jun 16, 2007 20:43:43 GMT -5
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Jun 16, 2007 20:43:43 GMT -5
sometimes people put the entire server on dislike in order to use certain spells on themselves and have them be effective. Greater Sanctuary is the only example I can give..doesn't function properly with non-hostiles. You should ignore the fact that you got an ooc message saying you were disliked. In the case of actually being attacked by characters and summoned creatures..well, thats something different.
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Jun 16, 2007 21:46:02 GMT -5
Post by olwentheold on Jun 16, 2007 21:46:02 GMT -5
*** Just My Opinion *** Same thing happened to me last night. Shortly after logging onto the server I was put on “dislike” by a character that I have never met IC and was no where near them. Personally to me that is Meta Gaming, *just my opinion*. The only way I could rationalize an in game reason is that the character is some type of evil murderer and plans on killing anyone he meets (but I think that is even stretching it). Out of character I think it is just someone trolling to be a PKer and not a big RPer to the server. Also, I thought there were rules about Pking… both sides had to agree and there had to be a RP reason? I am not sure but I think that is so. So, I took the coach from Isenhold to Redmist and then as I was purchasing a ticket from Redmist to Suzail I saw the person whom put me on “dislike” summon a ghoul/ Death knight. I took the coach to Suzail (as it was materializing) and as I was waiting for a comrade to show, I had a sneak attacked performed on me by a summoned ghoul/ death knight that took almost half my hitpoints. I guess I lost on some check because I could not fight back and ran over to a corner with things floating about my head. Then I notice the character who put me on dislike and that I saw in Redmist appear near the caravan, (I am not sure if he arrived by caravan or materialized as I was too busy being attacked). About this time my friend showed up and the character who had me attacked just walked by and said/ did nothing. I didn’t say anything to the character just let DM Rich and Valkyrie know. Then I went on and had a great night of Rping. To be honest, I still am not sure what the character intended. It was pretty stupid to me and had no RP value what so ever. If you want to try to PK characters at least make it a worthwhile role play reason other wise your just a PK Troll. *** Just MY Opinion**** ;D ;D ;D I kinda agree with AnvilX. While it's not technically "wrong" to randomly attack folk nor is it wrong to set folk on dislike (sometimes it's even necessary for spells to work), it's just senseless and uncool to attack people for no good reason or any RP. What I don't like about the situation described above is how the person who summoned the undead did so in public and basically ignored the NPCs present there - that in itself is a no-no and is begging for a response most unkind (at least, if I was around). Ideally, such an act would instantly cause mass panic and the guards and, possibly, even the War Wizards would be alerted in due time. I believe there was some entry within the rulebook about just this - ignoring NPCs and causing havoc in populated areas.
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Jun 16, 2007 22:39:53 GMT -5
Post by Grozer on Jun 16, 2007 22:39:53 GMT -5
Ainur just so you know, if this is the same situation I logged into last night there were a couple dead at the Inn and Ranan did run around trying to find the person. Thank you to DM Valk for jumping in and allowing Ranan to put the guard into action.
I too have a problem with the whole situation, just because you ONLY see one NPC guard present doesnt mean there arent more around. The person killed the single visible guard at the main gate and did so in a violent loud manner so it would have been easy for any number of NPCs to summon more guards.
There is a reason there are so few NPCs present... its called lag.
To the main point of this thread though, putting someone on dislike doesnt mean anything and no one should take offense to it. For us spell casters we need it. IT DOESNT MEAN you are going to be attacked... sometimes I may do it to someone because I plan to find them and TALK to them, but should the talk go bad I dont have to worry about setting hostile. It may mean I am invisible nearby and planning a full assault and you are nearby, wrong place at the wrong time. Bottom line its a game mechanic thing... NWN should have have made the message say "XX set you to hostile" that would have been better.
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Jun 16, 2007 23:04:24 GMT -5
Post by EDM Entori on Jun 16, 2007 23:04:24 GMT -5
I vote with grozer, Greater sanc an other such spells require hostile. now this case is particular to this situation and I'm sure will be looked at occurdingly. but it all honesty there maybe "Some" reason for it. maybe not.
Just putting it out there, that some of us carpet bomb the server hostile from time to time.
keep it real..
ent
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Jun 17, 2007 0:18:31 GMT -5
Post by Tralken on Jun 17, 2007 0:18:31 GMT -5
I agree with Grozer and Entori: The like/dislike is solely a game mechanic - it has no "in character" analog.
I also think that the like/dislike's function is not and can not be a device for monitoring unwarranted PKing - as has been said, improper PKing has to be handled case-by-case.
I think the real risk of this device is that it may lead to meta-gaming/bad RP on the part of the recipient of a like/dislike status change. That is, the recipient gains information that their character cannot possibly have, and may be able to prepare for a possible conflict based on who changed the setting. Of course, I don't see how you can do anything about that...
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Jun 17, 2007 4:13:54 GMT -5
Post by davrosmandrake on Jun 17, 2007 4:13:54 GMT -5
I know most of you understand this game better than I do but I would like to point out one thing... If you set people to hostile to make spells like greater sanctury work, which is perfectly valid, and then summon something then the summon will attack anything you have set hostile that is in the area. I get the feeling this is what happened to the unfortunate chappie that wandered through the Redmist caravan (and before anyone starts I dont have any characters that can call any undead at all...it was not me ), had it have been me I would have filed it as 's**t happens with the engine' experience. I must admit it took me a while to get used to people setting me hostile but now I just ignore it and wait to encounter the person, but I have heard stories (bloody funny) of a mage that had her panther familer invisible when another character set her as hostile for a completely valid reason. Unfortuntaly the other character did not get to complete his dialog and RP because as soon as he set the mage hostile her invisible panther ripped his face off. But if you are going to set people to hostile then you can expect this..familiers and summons will bite..and if you are the one setting hostile then you have to bear that in mind if your calling up your familers and summons. The server has rules for PVP and those summons will ignore them, but its not an excuse to do it just something else we all need to be aware off. ~scuttles back under his rock~
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Jun 17, 2007 4:46:09 GMT -5
Post by Munroe on Jun 17, 2007 4:46:09 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I would say the reason you got hit by the undead is because while a player has to transition through from one zone to the next, their summons appear immediately. The player probably hadn't even finished loading the zone when you were hit by the undead.
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Jun 17, 2007 4:49:52 GMT -5
Post by brian333 on Jun 17, 2007 4:49:52 GMT -5
As a roleplayer I have no problem when I see a player with the blue swirly dots around him. I pretend I didn't see him.
As a role-player I have no problem when, if the others present wish to engage in hostilities, waiting a few seconds for things like hostile settings.
My problem is the meta-game aspect. I have yet to see a level 1 login and set the server to hostile so his sanctuary spell will work.
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Jun 17, 2007 8:08:57 GMT -5
Post by Uther Mortigast on Jun 17, 2007 8:08:57 GMT -5
I have yet to see a 1st level character cast Greater Sanctuary.
Besides game mechanics, the character that flags yours to hostile might have another reason -- RP. Just because you don't know what the reason is all of the time, doesn't mean they don't have an IC reason to do so.
Separating your own player and character knowledges, and ignoring that someone has switched your PC from blue to red, can make your gaming experience more enjoyable. If you wish it to.
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Jun 17, 2007 9:05:48 GMT -5
Post by Pookey on Jun 17, 2007 9:05:48 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I would say the reason you got hit by the undead is because while a player has to transition through from one zone to the next, their summons appear immediately. The player probably hadn't even finished loading the zone when you were hit by the undead. Which begs the question, did he ask for a ticket for his ghoul? Do they get a lower ticket rate because they aren't alive? If he was going to have his ghoul on the caravan, shouldn't he have bought two tickets?
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Jun 17, 2007 10:38:03 GMT -5
Post by ShadowCatJen on Jun 17, 2007 10:38:03 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I would say the reason you got hit by the undead is because while a player has to transition through from one zone to the next, their summons appear immediately. The player probably hadn't even finished loading the zone when you were hit by the undead. Unless they cast invisibility on their summon or summon the creature in the inn where they start their attack from. The attack started nowhere near any of the transistion points.
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Jun 17, 2007 12:31:46 GMT -5
Post by HeatherRae on Jun 17, 2007 12:31:46 GMT -5
As a roleplayer I have no problem when I see a player with the blue swirly dots around him. I pretend I didn't see him. Which is awsome, but you can't expect other players to trust everyone else on the server. I know, that's awful and we should be able to, but if only to avoid even the hint of metagaming, I personally think it's better to set everyone to hostile and go your merry way. As a role-player I have no problem when, if the others present wish to engage in hostilities, waiting a few seconds for things like hostile settings. My problem is the meta-game aspect. I have yet to see a level 1 login and set the server to hostile so his sanctuary spell will work. Well, my other question would be, how do you know they're a level 1? Unless you're logging in at the same time and looking (which, you're really not supposed to be doing anyway), you have no way of knowing whether they're level 1 or level 20. I've been here since November and there are still characters that log in that I've never seen that turn out to be older characters that the players are coming back to play for the summer. I have no way of knowing what level anyone is and neither do you. I guess my point is - if someone logs in and sets you hostile, then they log in an set you hostile. People set me hostile all the time, and although I will tease some of them about it (*looks at Katha's player and grins*), 99.999% of the time it has been a Greater Sanctuary or other spell issue.
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Jun 17, 2007 13:40:06 GMT -5
Post by TermaForever on Jun 17, 2007 13:40:06 GMT -5
Indeed I have had plenty of people set me hostile not with the intent of destroying me but with the intent of making a spell work. You have to just kind of trust their reasons, though they also have the responsibility to keep their summons under control (even though it makes some sense for something to defend you against a random stranger if it doesn't know you)
I personally have no reason to dislike everyone at once, if I click a dislike accidentally (happens a lot at 2:00 am) then I just reset it and send an apology to the person. Usually when I set a dislike its because a sitation is getting tense IC and I want to be ready if it breaks into a brawl (sort of the equivalent of losening the sword in the scabbard and tensing up). Yeah I know some people may not like it but I trust most of them to know that its just precautionary.
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Jun 17, 2007 14:04:53 GMT -5
Post by Munroe on Jun 17, 2007 14:04:53 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I would say the reason you got hit by the undead is because while a player has to transition through from one zone to the next, their summons appear immediately. The player probably hadn't even finished loading the zone when you were hit by the undead. Which begs the question, did he ask for a ticket for his ghoul? Do they get a lower ticket rate because they aren't alive? If he was going to have his ghoul on the caravan, shouldn't he have bought two tickets? Heh. Yep. I was just explaining why he was probably attacked engine-wise, not the RP behind it. I can't really wrap my head around the RP of anyone taking undead through a caravan. I suppose their undead could follow the caravan invisibly though. Undead don't suffer fatigue so if the undead has the ability to run, it can run constantly. However, my guess is that the player with the undead wasn't thinking about what s/he was doing.
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Kharn597
Old School
PCs: Tenchi Yamato; Katha; Danny Tanneseph
Posts: 461
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Jun 17, 2007 14:23:20 GMT -5
Post by Kharn597 on Jun 17, 2007 14:23:20 GMT -5
You can do what the Zhentarim does, just when no one is looking. Tie the undead to the underside of the caravan and then untie them when needed.
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Jun 17, 2007 14:57:15 GMT -5
Post by Grozer on Jun 17, 2007 14:57:15 GMT -5
You can do what the Zhentarim does, just when no one is looking. Tie the undead to the underside of the caravan and then untie them when needed. Heh yeah and I supposed all the people of Cormyr would welcome the extra guest?
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Jun 18, 2007 1:28:23 GMT -5
Post by brian333 on Jun 18, 2007 1:28:23 GMT -5
...Agreed, though. While slightly irresponsible, it is a current means of dealing with the PvP situation. Can you see beyond it? I'll take this as a DM ruling and try my best to avoid meta-gaming. My apologies, but I got caught up in the argument and missed this the first time around.
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Jun 18, 2007 11:39:28 GMT -5
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jun 18, 2007 11:39:28 GMT -5
...Agreed, though. While slightly irresponsible, it is a current means of dealing with the PvP situation. Can you see beyond it? I'll take this as a DM ruling and try my best to avoid meta-gaming. My apologies, but I got caught up in the argument and missed this the first time around. Not so much a ruling as a question. I guess I am just asking if you can be ok with this seeing as it's the only good way to handle certain situations. And as always, yes avoiding metagaming is best.
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