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Post by Helgrin Granitesoul on May 2, 2007 8:27:44 GMT -5
I know where a certian head is..
We were playing soccer with it ;D
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Post by moulinous on May 2, 2007 8:36:04 GMT -5
I wish to apologize for Taran's actions of burning the bodies of ranan and crew when I took part in one of the isinhold attacks. This was my first experience with pvp in any form, and my understanding was that they could be raised by a powerful priest who only needed to call them by name. When I rped burning the bodies i truly thought it would only be a minor inconvenience and we would be seeing our much maligned baddies back up and running in no time. Later it was politely explained to me by a dm that burning corpses is poor form, making it much more difficult to rp being raised again i.e. almost amounting to a permadeath. This was not my intent at all and i am truly sorry if i have caused anyone in this event difficulty. Should i be fortunate enough to be involved in another such event I will certainly find an alternate method of dealing wiht dead bodies. I love this server and spend way too much time on it ;D and I wish to do my part to make it enjoyable, not annoying or difficult. Keep up the great job everybody, and see ya ig. lets burn his forst down! LOL...just kidding Taran...and on the by, a really good rper Taran has become so about time you started getting in on the action...wait, when we got to town, you were just lying thee dead....hmmmmmm
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Post by Grozer on May 2, 2007 9:22:02 GMT -5
I wish to apologize for Taran's actions of burning the bodies of ranan and crew when I took part in one of the isinhold attacks. This was my first experience with pvp in any form, and my understanding was that they could be raised by a powerful priest who only needed to call them by name. When I rped burning the bodies i truly thought it would only be a minor inconvenience and we would be seeing our much maligned baddies back up and running in no time. Later it was politely explained to me by a dm that burning corpses is poor form, making it much more difficult to rp being raised again i.e. almost amounting to a permadeath. This was not my intent at all and i am truly sorry if i have caused anyone in this event difficulty. Should i be fortunate enough to be involved in another such event I will certainly find an alternate method of dealing wiht dead bodies. I love this server and spend way too much time on it ;D and I wish to do my part to make it enjoyable, not annoying or difficult. Keep up the great job everybody, and see ya ig. Honestly no apology necessary, I had no problem with the burning. My concern was around potential metagaming during the incident (not by you), but whats done is done. I am not sure which DM talked to you, but I dont believe there is a problem with the burning, hell Ranan has done it as well, mind you I cleared it with the other players but its been done. It becomes more difficult mind you but yes a high level priest can still resurrect the person so ashes or not it doesnt matter... so no worries man, you did fine.
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Post by SlothfulCat on May 2, 2007 13:11:58 GMT -5
Or any old croney with a ressurection scroll and a handful of body ash... though a less competent savior may leave you smelling like roasted pine for a week or so.
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on May 2, 2007 13:49:04 GMT -5
I agree, no appologies neccessary whatsoever bud. Hell, I woulda burned us too! While it is a nice thing to give players an RP out, mainly when the fight isnt even, I think there should be consiquences for loosing PvP, and sitting out of the main plots and action for a week or two after you get schooled is certainly what "I" would suggest. None of us are ever expected to perma-die, but sitting out a bit gives the illusion of victory. Perhaps all that means is just staying out of sight for a bit so the others can gloat over their victory, only to be shocked and horrified at your devious return later. Sorta like playing guns. Bang, your out.
I dont think there was any meta-gaming going on. Doust might have been about to log, but honestly, if he was in town, inside or not, he would have heard the comotion and had every right to jump back into the fray, using his limitless god-like powers to twart our escape. You guys did well, and what can I say... Doust is a bad mutha.
I certainly dont feel anyone cheated or meta-gamed in any way, though I suppose I do have one concern, and its not so much a complaint as just a suggestion that wizards and sorcerors should take into consideration: First, our major plan there was to hit Isinhold as fast as we could after Dousts assassination attempt in Redmist in order to catch whichever wizard it was who had made the attack while his spells were still drained (though we honestly had no idea if he would be there, we intended to punish Isinhold for the attack.) It sorta backfired when we found Doust fully rested with all his spells back. Now, it is understandable for a couple of reasons. First, he teleported and we had to take the caravan, so I think it was partially our fault because its not really determend how long the trip from Redmist to Isinhold is. I have always assumed its only about five or ten miles away, and could be traversed by horse, or wagon in a couple hours... certainly not enough time for six to eight hours or rest and spell preparation. This is however, debaitable. Also, its hard for him to know we were coming, and he probably never considered that anyway, and I dont blame him. Although, he did say he couldnt believe we "fell for it", in which case he probably shouldnt have expected to have six to eight hours to prepare and rest for magic. I dont want to bitch at Doust here at all, but as a general consideration for wizards... high level mages are powerful... very powerful. Five time-stops is hard enough to deal with... let alone ten! High level Sorcerors are ungodly powerful, but their one weakness is that their spells run out. If wizards rest in the twenty seconds it takes to rest, it really does remove their only major weakness... that sorta makes it tough for the rest of us lowly mortals... not that Manshin is exactly fair to the melee fighters out there... but you know what I mean... If you can slap around Manshin like he's a toddler, then I can only hope you'll try to rest in a realistic manner in order to give the rest of us pions a hope of winning.
Remember, a wizard and sorceror must have a full rest, and then take time to prepare his/her spells. Thats one of the balancing factors for the fact that they can stop time and kill anyone.
Im not trying to rag on Doust here, honestly, he played skillfully and deserved the win.. just food for thought.
Manshin
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Post by Kolfrosta on May 2, 2007 14:06:44 GMT -5
Case in point. The bad guys may have noticed the absense on their last few attacks of a certain female paladin ..... ;D (Probably won't sit out the *whole* week, but a few days at least. )
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Myth
Old School
Retired FRC DM
The Myth
Posts: 686
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Post by Myth on May 2, 2007 14:13:52 GMT -5
Just.... ... I will remain silent on this. Pity.
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Post by SlothfulCat on May 2, 2007 14:14:49 GMT -5
Dunno if another PC is literally doing the raising I dont see the need to sitting out...
now respawns or DM (read divine) intervention... yeah... doesn't hurt to have a few days of not using that PC or a good bit of laying low.
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Post by Kolfrosta on May 2, 2007 14:54:05 GMT -5
Actually, sitting out a few days was my personal choice. (Yes, she was raised by another character shortly after the event.) It lets it feel like a real win for the "bad guys". (All good players , just playing the parts of the nemesis for our PCs). No one *has* to do this though, but from an RP standpoint, lets face it, Sharita had her butt handed to her and she's going to take time to reflect on what went wrong and how to not let this not happen again. It is what anyone would do, figure out what went wrong and make adjustments. Besides, she needed a good dose of humility...
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Post by Munroe on May 2, 2007 18:38:46 GMT -5
If we're going to talk about D&D resting...
In D&D, a character regains 1 hp/level naturally per 8 hours of rest or 2 hp/level naturally for 24 hours of continuous bedrest. (There's a rule that prevents resting three 8 hour rests in 24 hours for 3 hp/day but I don't remember the specifics.)
So... If a character is Raised, they have 1 hp. Unless they get further divine healing after that point, it would take several days to get back up to speed.
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on May 2, 2007 19:30:09 GMT -5
whoa! dont sit out! You may have a perspective I dont, or had a rational I didnt consider. Like I was saying bud, that was in no way meant to be an attack, and you definatly deserved to school us. I made a few errors that could have made things go our way, so, Im not questioning your victory. Feel free to chime in with you two cents, we're all buds here.
Zombie Manshin
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Post by EDM Entori on May 2, 2007 21:12:36 GMT -5
From what I've experinced.. greater sanc, makes the person invulenerable and invisible to enemies.. if a caster has true seeing on then he can see him but not attack.. if you got a disjunction or greater dispell.. aim it at the ground next to them.. and walla.
have fun..
Ent
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Post by HeatherRae on May 3, 2007 1:59:48 GMT -5
If we're going to talk about D&D resting... In D&D, a character regains 1 hp/level naturally per 8 hours of rest or 2 hp/level naturally for 24 hours of continuous bedrest. (There's a rule that prevents resting three 8 hour rests in 24 hours for 3 hp/day but I don't remember the specifics.) So... If a character is Raised, they have 1 hp. Unless they get further divine healing after that point, it would take several days to get back up to speed. Unless they're resurrected instead of raised, in which case they get all of their hp back at once.
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Post by Hackmaster on May 3, 2007 17:47:04 GMT -5
Any caster of any type should never rest in a PvP situation or DM event until it makes since that they think they could safely get a full 8 hours of rest. No matter how much it sucks to become weakened and Phelzaron has been in the position many times a caster should take his lumps or flee or find protection but should NEVER use game mechanics such as a 20 second rest as a fair measure in the middle of combat. I have seen this several times especially common among my Sorcerer brethren. In DM events held in Isinhold I actually witnessed Sorc's running into the Inn after their spells was exhausted to rest and then come back out fully loaded again during the same combat!
no No NO! Doing this during a PvP is just poor form so I ask that casters consider this before a rest and REALLY give it thought and ask themselves these questions BEFORE resting.
1)Am I safe? 2)Do I really have 8 hours of rest in this situation (has it been about an real time hour since I last fought and escaped them)? 3)Is this an obvious DM event or am I in a PvP match?
In a PvP match you literally would have to escape and remain unavailable for a real time hour before you should rest just as a precaution. This also assumes both sides were at a draw or one side or both escaped. If one side was defeated then a rematch should not happen at the very least one day. The exception to this is the defeated party might get lucky know who the assailant was from witnesses and a new hunting party formed. Never under any circumstances should the victor come back on purpose to slay the defeated again for at least a day. If the slain chooses to hunt down their attacker(s) and has valid IC and RP reasons
In a DM event players should get the vibe when a rest opportunity becomes available. A DM will likely push you to the max and maybe a bit over unless they feel you really found a good safe place that a 8 hour rest was possible.
Please keep these things in mind. This is especially True for casters but should be considered by all players.
Did you use magical healing or natural healing when you were raised from the dead? If you come back from the dead and heal kits are used on you then at best they are resetting broken bones, sewing wounds, blah blah blah you should treat the kits as such, it is Mundane healing. Even if fully healed using kits at best you should be only able to walk on your own for a while, speak, and do light tasks.
We let this go in your average every day PC's vs. monsters/NPC's for the most part but in a PvP you are a casualty and unless magical healing is applied you should treat your wounds as such. If all you have is kits then you need to be just figuring out how to limp to safety and escape.
This is directed at ALL players as a reminder of how to deal with a PvP and it is also a good idea to cut your enemy a break for a bit if your were defeated. Even if you continue playing the character just make no new plans to attack your enemy again for a week or so cut them a break for defeating you. They beat you...give them a chance to savor the victory and everyone licking their wounds, its not asking a lot at all.
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Panros
Old School
Sneak Attack - Reach out and touch someone.
Posts: 479
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Post by Panros on May 3, 2007 18:15:26 GMT -5
Meh, angry was the wrong word to use, I just re-read what I wrote. Rather than being angry I was irritated not knowing the fact how things worked. Implying meta-gaming, I never meant it as that. Rather, I was just honestly wondering "How the hell did So-and-so get raised?" I haven't even checked this thread since after Aodhan's first post. *shrugs*
Greater Sanctuary - We need to lay down the law. Munroe says its a Bioware spell, therefore, there is no source book we can look through to see how it should play out. If Bioware released a patch to enable True Seeing to view a person under Greater Sanctuary, then they should be able to.
Someone wrote that if under the Greater Sanctuary effect, others would feel that they shouldn't attack you. I'm not sure I understand this.
Regardless of the whole Greater Sanctuary conversation. I had no complaints that night of PvP other than how many electronic loaded dice Veshal was rolling. *grins*
See you all in game, I suggest if people want to further the discussion of the Greater Sanctuary spell that it be opened up as its own topic. *nod nod*
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Post by moulinous on May 3, 2007 19:55:46 GMT -5
I did not know that about heal kits...honestly and without malice. For some reason it always got into my head that heal kits were like magical salves and such like with a apliied bandage on top of them...and that is only when i kinda thought about them even though i never have....man....having to thank phel for something...screw that, i am thanking munroe,lol...just cuase ;D
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Post by Laurk on May 3, 2007 20:18:28 GMT -5
Well, I tend to think along the lines as Moulinous does about those healing kits. With Abby, I treat them as magical healing salves. There just isnt a good way to RP those things being mundane. However, all is not lost... wait until guys see how Greenhouse has fixed them in FRC 2. Pure paper and pencil.
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Post by Hackmaster on May 4, 2007 6:00:46 GMT -5
Well again, Healing kits are actually mundane but...because of game mechanics obviously nobody flips out the way they are used because it would be just to hard to explain it away encounter after encounter, but honestly in a PvP they should not be treated as a Magical aid as there are many alternative actual magical aides to use. If the PvP is clearly over there is no real need to worry about what type of healing you are using.
It's more food for thought then a rule...In fact there is no actual rule on FRC about healing kits nor should their be. Because what a headache...but if you feel like you got pwned in a PvP and you healed yourself with Healing kits or another heals you with such, you should consider nursing your wounds for a bit. This is by no means mandatory but probably much more accurate then..."Look at me I feel like a million dollars again! Wheres the fight?!"
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Post by Munroe on May 5, 2007 15:39:48 GMT -5
Greater Sanctuary - We need to lay down the law. Munroe says its a Bioware spell, therefore, there is no source book we can look through to see how it should play out. If Bioware released a patch to enable True Seeing to view a person under Greater Sanctuary, then they should be able to. Someone wrote that if under the Greater Sanctuary effect, others would feel that they shouldn't attack you. I'm not sure I understand this. Greater Sanctuary is a Bioware spell (again, so far as I know), but Sanctuary is an actual D&D spell, and it does NOT make you invisible. It makes it so that characters do not consider you threatening and therefore do not attack you. They are aware of you, but in their brains a switch is thrown that you're not someone they need to fight or impede. Sanctuary allows for a Will save to resist the spell because you can overcome it and see them as threatening. In short, Sanctuary is the Jedi Mind Trick: "These are not the droids you're looking for." Santuary ends if the person using it attacks. If True Seeing does allow you to see someone with Greater Sanctuary but does prevent you from attacking them, this would be in the spirit of how the Sanctuary spell is supposed to work (except lacking the Will save).
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Kharn597
Old School
PCs: Tenchi Yamato; Katha; Danny Tanneseph
Posts: 461
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Post by Kharn597 on May 5, 2007 16:43:14 GMT -5
I would say the describtion of greater sanctuary is very simuliar to ethral jaunt (level 7 cleric, sor/wiz 7 spell). Might be a good way to rp it.
Page 227 and 228 in PHB 3.5
"You become ethereal, along with your equipment. For the duration of the spell, you are in aplace called teh Ethereal Plane, which overlaps the normal, physical, material plane. When the spell expires, you return to the material existence.
An ethereal creature is invisble, insubstantial, and capable ofmoving in any direction even up or down, albeit at half normal speed. As an insubstantial creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures. An ethereal creature can see and hear on the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and ephemeral. Sightand hearing onto the material plane are limited to 60 feet. Force effect and abjuration effect an ethereal creature ormally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the material plane but not vice versa. An ethereal craeture can;t attach material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal plane (such as a basilisk's gaze attack). treat other ethereal creatures and objects as if they were material.
If you end the spell and become material while inside a material obje ts(such as a solid wal), you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that you so travel. "
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