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Post by ShadowCatJen on Dec 12, 2006 14:22:35 GMT -5
What I very much like to do when I play a character that follows close on a particular Deity is put together some general superstitions that the character would adhere to. Sort of like how when you spill salt you're supposed to toss a little over your shoulder to blind the devil that may be there.
I was thinking along those lines while in regards to Tymora when I came across a small debatable question. Would or would not a follower of Tymora place a rose behind her ear?
For those that are not familiar:
Tymora used to be a Deity known as Tyche. Tyche placed a rose behind her ear, but the rose was corrupted by the then Deity of rot and decay. It was slowly rotting her from within and her friends realized it. Selune then hit her with a purifying light and it split Tyche into two, giving birth to both Tymora and Beshaba.
Now, on the one hand the rose was a bit of an unlucky thing. It caused some anguish and eventually the birth of Beshaba. On the other, it could be seen by a follower of Tymora as a blessing as Tyche was the sort that didn't care much for things in either light while Tymora is far more goodly aligned.
Been sort of hemming and hawing on this for a couple of days now and was curious about how others would see it. Any input would be appreciated. ^_^
Edit: grammar and spelling
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Post by heimdall on Dec 12, 2006 16:17:37 GMT -5
Yummy yummy Beshaba!   Huh? Hmm....what was the question? Heheh.  |
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Dec 12, 2006 16:25:27 GMT -5
Oooh, I'd smite you if you didn't have the DM Crown of Immunity To Everything. .... then again they do describe Beshaba as a sezzy lookin' thing so I guess you're right. ;D |
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Post by moulinous on Dec 12, 2006 16:50:08 GMT -5
been there done that and all i got was this crummy crummy case of blue ticks on my "battle axe"
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Post by gathera on Dec 12, 2006 21:03:47 GMT -5
Okay I will give it a whril and put my tow cents in. Also thanks by the way I did not know that bit of detail.
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Post by gathera on Dec 12, 2006 21:31:28 GMT -5
Grrr... buttons, sorry. What I was pondering was what the symbol of the rose would be... rebirth and creation or a warning of excessive vanity. I would argue that from the faithful of Tymora' perspective, Tyche and Tymora were and are one in the same deity. The fateful day when Beshaba was birthed resulted in a corruption of the whole and now a part has been lost. One possible view is that the clergy must atone for the event that lead to the birth of Beshaba and situations that arise from Beshaba’s actions. The present outlook is one of penance of a past sin (vanity) and to right the wrongs caused that may stem from this tragic story.
Now the question of the symbol of the rose and to whether it would be permissible for a follower to wear it. No, it would be bad luck or tempting a similar fate as to what befell Tyche. The blight of the rose might spread to the follower.
Of course this is a very Judeo-Christian outlook on this matter. A good question and one whose answer I have flipped-flopped on. Heh heh.
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Post by sdthielking on Dec 17, 2006 10:03:38 GMT -5
Con: The Rose is what initiated the corruption of Tyche, and it can be seen as a symbol of that decay.
Pro: The Rose is what initiated the corruption of Tyche, and so as long as the Rose remains uncorrupted, so too should the follower feel uncorrupted.
Con: The Rose is a symbol of the past of Tymora, of past deeds that should maybe be kept in the shade.
Pro: The Rose is a symbol of the past of Tymora, of past deeds that should maybe be dragged into the light for edification and atonement.
Con: Roses have thorns, but these can be removed.
Pro: Roses are pretty and often smell good.
It's a toss up whichever way you go. Hell, you could even do it only sometimes depending on how lucky you feel.
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bane
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Post by bane on Dec 17, 2006 16:00:38 GMT -5
Would current faithful of Tymora know of the story of Tyche? Would they even know who Tyche was? We as players know but in FR it happened centuries ago that it could be forgotten and that Tymora and Beshaba would not exactly be interested in keeping the story alive. It's never ever been stated in any of the sourcebooks that either takes affront to such a show, basically it's because they don't care....Tymora and Beshaba are happy to stay seperate (read the last of the Lost Gods series, I can't remember the name). I say, go for it  . ps. Deities don't get -that- involved in their followers lives, they give the general rules and expect the senior clerics to enforce these things too. So if a Tymoran wore a 'I love Beshaba' T-shirt then Tymora wouldnt do squat to he/she unless the person was very high up in the clergy or close to the deity...but the other Tymorans instead would slap that person  . |
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Post by SlothfulCat on Dec 17, 2006 16:21:31 GMT -5
One has to ask oneself if Tymora wouldnt smile on her follower wearing the stinkign rose and trusting it to luck that its okay with the priest's peers, all the while making it a symbolic daring of one's to corrupt Tymora's servant!
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Post by catmage on Dec 17, 2006 17:56:49 GMT -5
It's not about whether the god herself cares. Superstition implies that the reasoning has no grounding in fact. And given that the creation of gods is a rare event, let alone the dual birth of two deities with a portfolio as far reaching as good and bad luck, the story of their birth would likely be very well noted.
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bane
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Post by bane on Dec 17, 2006 18:47:30 GMT -5
Problem is that the event happened during the Dawn Cataclysm and that since that perilous time a lot of empires (that include Beshaba's and Tymora's clergy) have risen and fallen over time. I guess it's upto the player if their character was taught about the split . |
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Post by heimdall on Dec 17, 2006 19:02:32 GMT -5
Yummy yummy Beshaba! Huh? Hmm....what was the question? Heheh. |
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Dec 17, 2006 19:24:25 GMT -5
My character very much knows about Tyche's split into Tymora and Beshaba. I can't get into too much detail but she does carry an artifact that is ground in the history of the split.
Also I am referring to those that follow Tymora more closely then your average layman. Someone who's studied a bit about their goddess and have spoken a bit with some in the clergy.
After reading a few thoughts I think I've come to this conclusion:
A close follower of Tymora would believe wearing a rose behind your ear is a good thing as long as it is worn with good intentions.
When Tyche came across the rose she could not pluck it from the earth so she cursed it with bad luck. When she did the stem broke, it fell to the ground, and she picked it up and placed it behind her ear. Thus causing the whole mess.
Bad karma breeds bad karma and that's a lesson any Tymoran follower should know. Wearing a rose behind the ear could serve as a reminder of Tyche's folly.
;D Thanks to everyone who responded! Helped me come up with this little culture bit for FR in my mind.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Dec 18, 2006 12:50:44 GMT -5
Which... would also beg the question how do you wear a rose without good intentions. A few I thought up:
1) You wear the rose in order to attract the attention of a husband of a happily married couple, with intent to destroy their happy home.
2) You wear the rose, laced with a poison to hand over to an uptight cleric you'd like to see suffer.
3) You steal a yellow rose from a garden belonging to a simple flower girl who makes her living off of selling the flowers for a pittance. This as a way to celebrate your successful nighttime thievery of the local castle of a goodly king.
Tymoran superstition would see to it that the results of these would be:
1) You end up not garnering the attention of the husband, but that of an overly insistent -- and not too pleasant looking -- leader of a band of cutthroats. He originally wanted the wife of the husband you were trying to covet, but decides he likes you way better. The happy couple continue to live on in bliss while you flee town and possibly the country.
2)The anti-toxin you took to prevent yourself from getting poisoned was marked in the wrong bottle and you end up poisoning yourself. Worse, the cleric that you despise ends up being the one to help you.
3) The simple flower girl happens to also be the favorite street orphan of the local guard who buy her yellow roses and wear them (the only yellow roses sold in town). Your rose garners the attention of the guard and while questioning you one spots a ring you foolishly decided to wear that was stolen from the castle treasury and arrest you on the spot.
This would be the sort of thing that could happen. I would imagine that Tymora would love irony.
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bane
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Post by bane on Dec 18, 2006 18:07:52 GMT -5
Wear a tulip instead....much easier |
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Dec 20, 2006 16:25:09 GMT -5
Bah, tulips are for pansies! Need those thorns stuck in you to call yourself a real woman.... Oh gawd, talk about leaving things wide open. |
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Post by Booze Hound on Dec 20, 2006 16:59:42 GMT -5
Bah, tulips are for pansies! Need those thorns stuck in you to call yourself a real woman.... Oh gawd, talk about leaving things wide open. first you post a naked pic of Myn with JBF hair, then you write this? what the hell? has the holiday season got evryone in rut or something? heh |
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Post by Munroe on Dec 20, 2006 17:01:27 GMT -5
Naked pic of Myn? *looks around*
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Dec 21, 2006 11:39:58 GMT -5
Bah, tulips are for pansies! Need those thorns stuck in you to call yourself a real woman.... Oh gawd, talk about leaving things wide open. first you post a naked pic of Myn with JBF hair, then you write this? what the hell? has the holiday season got evryone in rut or something? heh Think it might be a case of cabin fever... that or going to Walmart, Target, and the Maul to look for gifts has me going nutters. @munroe Here ya go: frc.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=1166511245And back on thread topic: I would think that Tymorans would carry more superstitions then most other beliefs save for the followers of Beshaba. None of it would be proved in fact and most would be thought as rather silly. Superstitions in the real world can easily be incorporated into this. Never picking up a coin that's tails side up. Never walking under a ladder. Breaking a mirror is bad luck for seven years. If you spill salt toss it over your shoulder so it gets in the eyes of the devil looking over it. If you find a four leaf clover then it's a sure sign of luck to come. Some would make more sense. Like saying Beshaba's name aloud or hearing someone say her name aloud. I've incorporated into my characters habits that anytime someone says her name she spits to the side, stomps on the ground twice, takes out her gold coin with the symbol of Tymora on it, flips it, kisses it, then puts it away. Spitting is to get the foul taste of Beshaba's name out of your mouth. Stomping twice shakes any bad luck that may be creeping up your leg. Flipping the coin supposedly returns your "luck meter" to normal. Then kissing the coin gets you a little in favor with Tymora. Aaaaallll that just because someone said Beshaba's name. Another thing I have my character do is go on Tymoran Walks. Few of you might have done so with my character so you know what I'm referring to. Does anyone else out there put in their own character habits they do because of the diety they follow? By that I mean things that may not be listed in the sourcebooks, but fairly much matches what a follower of Torm or Tempus or Lathander, ect., might do. |
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Post by Pookey on Dec 23, 2006 9:02:47 GMT -5
*tries to find ways to bring the word Beshaba into conversation with Mynian more often*
Tee hee!
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Post by catmage on Dec 23, 2006 18:42:42 GMT -5
And back on thread topic: I would think that Tymorans would carry more superstitions then most other beliefs save for the followers of Beshaba. None of it would be proved in fact and most would be thought as rather silly. Superstitions in the real world can easily be incorporated into this. Some would make more sense. Like saying Beshaba's name aloud or hearing someone say her name aloud. I've incorporated into my characters habits that anytime someone says her name she spits to the side, stomps on the ground twice, takes out her gold coin with the symbol of Tymora on it, flips it, kisses it, then puts it away. Spitting is to get the foul taste of Beshaba's name out of your mouth. Stomping twice shakes any bad luck that may be creeping up your leg. Flipping the coin supposedly returns your "luck meter" to normal. Then kissing the coin gets you a little in favor with Tymora. Aaaaallll that just because someone said Beshaba's name Another thing I have my character do is go on Tymoran Walks. Few of you might have done so with my character so you know what I'm referring to. Does anyone else out there put in their own character habits they do because of the deity they follow? By that I mean things that may not be listed in the source books, but fairly much matches what a follower of Torm or Tempus or Lathander, ect., might do. Those Tymoran walks are nifty. Pleased to say on the three walks we've taken together with that freaky little coin, we didn't die horribly. Doesn't Mynian also do that whole stomp and spit routine on mention of Lovitar by name? Though I suppose that's more of a personal history thing than a superstition thing, if that was you. As for superstitions, Ailren tries to avoid actually using the names of gods he respects, under the belief that mentioning a god by name draws the attentions of Tiamat, who'll strike out at those beings or punish him for speaking respectfully of them, since she's the Nemesis of the Gods. A hold over from Ailren's worship of Oghma is that he won't knowingly tell a lie if he can help it. He can gloss over certain questions or answer them in ways that technically are true, but he tries to stay on the level. Of course, he still does from time to time, but oh well. |
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Dec 29, 2006 15:25:52 GMT -5
Doesn't Mynian also do that whole stomp and spit routine on mention of Lovitar by name? Though I suppose that's more of a personal history thing than a superstition thing, if that was you. She spits to the side in disgust when Lovitar is mentioned, she'll usually make some comment to insult the goddess as well. Myn's got no love for her what so ever. It is more personal history then superstition. |
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