|
Post by Laurk on Oct 17, 2006 13:24:47 GMT -5
Im going to have to agree with Drider-man here. I believe the biggest flaw in most of our RP is a complete lack of respect for death, I believe ShadowCat said that earlier.
Intimidate doesnt mean you neccessarily want to fight. Like the animal kindom, many intimidate to avoid a fight. For example, if the big mean looking fellow is getting insulted, he may try to shove his weight around and look intimidating to drive home the point that he is tough, that way he isn't forced to fight.
Intimidation is quite simply, looking like you have skills, or somehow have the upper hand. Weapon masters have to take four ranks in intimidate as a prerequisite. Are they mean looking? No, but they have skills. If Manshin wants to be intimidating, he can probably flip his sword around like he's kung fu crazy. People could clearly see he knows his business... but some people are just plain good at "looking" like they know their business.. .and that is represented by a high intimidate score.
I think for intimidate, we NEED the dice bag, because people are just not in general realistic enough in the way they deal with others. Like Drider-man said. ESPECIALLY high level adventurers. here is why. By the time a character gets to a high level, he has fought dragons and giants... sure... but chances are he has also fought berserk golbins that almost took his head at level 15! or kids who turn into balrogs. And has probably seen other adventurers whom he did not know display skills far beyond his/her own. Point is, by the time you reach high level, you should have the common sense to know that ANYONE or ANYTHING can and often is more dangerous than it looks. We as players are armed with OOC info... we usually know if we can take another player because we know they are new to the server and thus low level. However, if you have NEVER seen a character before, your character wouldnt know anything about them, and if they happen to be good at being intimidating, and role appropriatly, and you fail your will save (I think a straight Will save is best here.) Then you should adopt a neutral attitude toward them. Not fear... not insulting... just neutral. Because this character has convinced you that he may be more than he looks... or at least that you had better know a bit more before you tell him to pike off. As long as that character is a stranger too you, and remains unknown, you should be suseptable to intimidate. Once you've seen him in combat, and you know he's a chump, all bets are off.
Sometimes it takes a dice bag to get us to RP realisticly. Do you think ANYONE on this server would run away from a mummy's fear effect if they were given a choice? Of course not, they would just say their character is far to brave to be afraid of a mummy. Well... as far as I know, the only people immune to fear are paladins... this should go toward the intimidate skill as well. Consider it an RP challenge to react as the dice call for. If you want to be more resistant to the effects of intimidation, get that will save higher, or take appropriate feats.
Laurk
|
|
|
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 17, 2006 13:36:16 GMT -5
If a level 1 PC comes up to hroth, RPs appropriately, and then backs his intimidate up with something (ie smashing chair over his head, or intimidate check) I will respect that and have Hroth act accordingly. You throw insults or threats around, his "tough guy" attitude will persist and you'll likely get no where. That's what kind of guy he is, spitting in the face of ranan up until his head was lopped off. I will respect someone's roll on intimidate because I respect the fact that they put points into a skill that has absolutely no bearing in FRC (I can't think of one NPC off the top of my head that you can intimidate without a DM present).
|
|
|
Post by Laurk on Oct 17, 2006 13:50:08 GMT -5
Option 1: Intimidate vs. Will save + 1 per size category.
Option 2: Intimidate vs. Intimidate (For those who choose. It takes one to know one.)
Failure to Save = neutral attitude: Your character is now at least considering that he might be ovematched, or at least isnt confident he can beat his adversary for whatever reason... and is unaware he can respawn. This doesnt mean you wont seek revenge later, and kick his butt as soon as he turns his back, but for now... you need to react reailistically... these people didnt spend their skill points for nothing!
I think players should be able to choose either option in game.
|
|
|
Post by Talus on Oct 17, 2006 13:50:24 GMT -5
If (I can't think of one NPC off the top of my head that you can intimidate without a DM present). There are a few new NPC's that these skills can be used on. I would agree with Laurk. I don't claim to be the best RPer, so sometimes the dice bag can be helpful. But I don't think the dice bag should rule all. Just give the players involved some idea of the characters involved. I 'ave had some great RP that was driven mainly by the roll of the dice, but that was a rare thing. I almost never use the dice bag, but I like knowing that it's there, and that some of how I see my character can be represented by it, if my RP skills are not up to the task.
|
|
|
Post by glittereye on Oct 17, 2006 18:04:56 GMT -5
Intimidate me if you must. Just know that anyone who succeeds will be considered a threat and must die!
|
|
|
Post by catmage on Oct 17, 2006 20:20:36 GMT -5
I personally prefer the level check described in the most recent edition of the Player's Handbook, which is how the link Quad posted describes. A high level character is going to be more sure of himself and less likely to be intimidated by a tough acting guy with a shiney sword. It also works better than a will save, because those with low will saves, IE Barbarians and Fighters, are just as difficult to cow as wizards and sorcerers, if for different reasons.
|
|
|
Post by anjb01 on Oct 17, 2006 20:54:57 GMT -5
Intimidate- Intimidate is countered by the target rolling 1d20 + their LVL + Wisdom modifier + Bonuses to Fear saves. Thus a lvl 16 warrior with a wisdom of 10 would save against Intmidate with 1d20 + 16. 5 ranks in Bluff will grant the target a +2 synergy bonus against Intimidate. The Persuasive feat will also grant a +2 bonus. Paraphrased from Here
|
|
|
Post by dajuke on Oct 17, 2006 21:03:11 GMT -5
I'm probablly not the gnome that's been spoken of, but i know reyvan talked with a battle priest who started sounding a bit menacing. Reyvan started off being his normal oblivious self, but when he realized the priest was not happy tried to calm the situation and curb his usual chattering habits. I'm hoping he is not the one you encountered driderman, but if he is i apologize for messing up your roleplay. I have tried to use dice rolls with reyvan when i'm not sure exactly how to respond to a situation, especially if the other player tries. It's made for a few entertaining moments when i ended up rping something that i had not intended because that's what reyvan rolled.
This doesn't really tie into anything people have said, jsut my thoughts are that people should try and work with whoever is actually attempting to rp, whether it's through dice or emoting. It can make for some really fun situations. And frequently reyvan responds the way he does because i purposefully made him with a low wisdom score and try to rp that in whatever situation he finds himself in (i.e. generally a bit clueless).
|
|
|
Post by Grozer on Oct 17, 2006 22:46:38 GMT -5
and there is also the fact that at level one to three, you can pretty much modiy your armor/appearance/weapon to look as bad ass as you want, even though it isn't anways, one thing that no one has pointed out here that I was thinking of just now is background stories. Yea, your character may be Korgath of Barbaria (I love that show) who has absentmindedly stripped the skin off of an ogre whilst drunk in a tavern before he came to Cormyr...but hm...why is that kobold giving you trouble? this is off topic perhaps, but I think it ties in: Maybe don't create an epic background for your character that you hope to one day level up and be able to fill the shoes of, because it makes things difficult when you are trying to RP that, and you simply cant. I dunno, maybe that doesnt make sense and is off topic. True that ! Gero´s fought dragons , giants , and undead vampire lords . . I am not gonna roll against intimidate because some personage in a shiny suit is copping an attitude and waving a big axe around. . Hell Ranan or Raven doesnt even scare Gero anymore Be good B. This is a late reply but IMO that is part of the problem. Ranan or Raven doesnt have to scare you... but the just the fact that Ranan might have zhentarim foot soldiers at his call or Black Network assassins do his dirty work "should" make you think twice. I dont like using the dice bag, but when people are quick to call you a Banite, murderer and circumventing the law but fail to RP "any" recognition of who they are standing in front of its just plain silly. Again no one is suggesting you to back down or run in fear, but come on...
|
|
|
Post by Grozer on Oct 17, 2006 22:51:39 GMT -5
i havent been around in a while and not sure if it still works ... but if youre gonna plan on intimidating someone you should put them on hostile. that'll let them know you mean business. and besides, the red glow and the yellow writing in the combat log sure does grab one's attention ... Well I disagree. Most people simply expect PvP when you put them on hostile period. I used to do this with Ranan all the time, but invariably you get the tell asking why and what did I do. In reality some mechanics of NWN ONLY work if you hostile everyone in the area. Besides seeing the red hostile indicator and assuming anything is the same as reading someone's name above their head and using it in game... its metagaming. Lastly intimidation does NOT mean a fight will ensue, it only means there is some tension between the two parties. Dont make it more than it is. You DONT need to bully someone to intimidate them.
|
|
Boogiedk
Old School
A mans home is his castle - But it shouldnt have to be his fortress
Posts: 252
|
Post by Boogiedk on Oct 18, 2006 1:25:28 GMT -5
This is a late reply but IMO that is part of the problem. Ranan or Raven doesnt have to scare you... but the just the fact that Ranan might have zhentarim foot soldiers at his call or Black Network assassins do his dirty work "should" make you think twice. I dont like using the dice bag, but when people are quick to call you a Banite, murderer and circumventing the law but fail to RP "any" recognition of who they are standing in front of its just plain silly. Again no one is suggesting you to back down or run in fear, but come on... Gero would never dream of engaging Ranan one on one , but dont mistake fear for common sense Because the times theyve met its been in some city/village and Gero doesnt like the thought of innocents gettin hurt . Im talking about the "new" characters in town that hasnt really been in the country long , hasnt made a name for themselves sort o speak. Just because some "groznak the destroyer" have slain several dragons in his homeland assembled the rod of Cyric and showed it up his a**, taunted Mystra on the mount of doom and killed the leader of Luskan. doesnt automatically give him a name in Cormyr . . . Be Good B. By the way . . .Sort of on topic . . . Does immunity to fear give immunity to intimidate ? I would think yes , since being intimidated is a sort of fear induced emotion
|
|
Driderman
Old School
Off-topic conversationalist extraordinaire!
Posts: 357
|
Post by Driderman on Oct 18, 2006 4:06:07 GMT -5
And yet, despite everybody talking about how much they don't metagame, I didn't see anyone mouthing off to Artemis Entreri when he visited Isinhold the other day... And Dajuke, no reason to apologize, it was just meant as an example... and no, I don't think it was you. And you, Glittereye, maybe you'd want to rethink that comment of yours...
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Oct 18, 2006 5:17:53 GMT -5
Artemis Entreri didn't talk to anybody. As far as I know, he was just another guy in a hood. Somebody did make a general comment about all the guys in hoods while he was there though.
|
|
Driderman
Old School
Off-topic conversationalist extraordinaire!
Posts: 357
|
Post by Driderman on Oct 18, 2006 5:28:42 GMT -5
That would have been my bad attitude barbarian ;D
|
|
|
Post by Hackmaster on Oct 18, 2006 8:06:53 GMT -5
Ok kids, you are about to get another Dirk Perfect special! I have read everything here and choose to not comment but I just can't help my nosy busy body self. I HAVE to! hehe There has been a lot of good points and a lot of opinions but remember in the end mine is the only one that truly matters. ;D So tell your friends Dirk Perfect said so. Kah'ruzah is my evil character as some of you are aware of. Intimidation in large part comes through RP and perhaps we are all doing it wrong. Has anyone ever noticed 99% of us don't take one point in intimidation yet we all try to do it anyways through RP? I'll pick on myself as an example. Kah'ruzah has not one point in intimidation yet he is a scary individual. I am not even sure I can help that. Kah has convinced whole groups to leave the Bramblewood all by himself. Sometimes it's because they are afraid other times it's because they don't want to be the one that starts the bloodbath between orcs and humans, elves, dwarves...whatever. It can be intimidating alone just trying to decide if your character feels he is in the right or not. What if hes not? Then he looks like the IC jerk in the encounter (hopefully people don't treat him like he was an OOC jerk just cause he played his character)...and woe to him if he actually gets into a fight and looses on top of it! Poor sod might as well kill himself now if it was in public. This is stuff that very quickly runs through the OOC mind of the player. Technically having never developed it as a skill I should not even be trying to intimidate people. Thats not a very good way to do it though because then you are trying to gauge well how much should I RP a rank 5 Intimidation?....a rank 10?, and so on and so forth. Not really possible since there are no standards. RP often determines intimidation especially on an PvP server and here is why. Kah'ruzah encountered a man last night and I OOC had no clue if he was tough or not. I had no clue what his level was and to me it don't matter. Kah tried to intimidate him and a halfling into not entering the forest. It did not work they came anyways and a battle ensued as none of us were willing to back down. Thats the thing about intimidation is sometimes it blows up in your face and when that happens just like in Kah's situation you better be ready to play. Kah lost that battle by the way the two were too good of a combo against him and though he fought well he did eventually go down, luckily they were not goody two shoes and I was not transported to some cell or anything like that. Kah will challenge anyone level 1 - 40 thats part of what makes him scary is the fact he really will fight and back it up. The show of force type of intimidation people know that about him and they know he is tough so they are cautious. Some players may know his level...but more importantly is they know he will fight. Case in Isinhold were two elves thought it wise to insult Kah in town...they did all they could to intimidate him and found it only fueled his rage. They hoped between laws, being in town and 6 people standing around him that would be enough. Kah has a low wisdom and all he saw was red. He ended up killing 4 of the 6 people...2 opting to stay out of the fight, his show of force was enough for them to think screw that I am not touching that crazy orc, and so seeing no other hostiles about he left town. That was the art of intimidation blowing up in their faces. This is how I often approach my RP in being intimidating. I ask myself am I willing to back my words up if needed? Yes? then give em hell let em know your not afraid and if they want a little, then words WILL eventually turn to violence if they are not stopped or someone don't back off. If the answer I tell myself is no, I don't want this to escalate to a fight then my demeanor changes to try to be more diplomatic and to leave the situation. This means I have been successfully intimidated without a doubt. Often people make the mistake of the second answer....My answer is NO I don't want a fight to happen...I know..I will insult them MORE that will make them back down and as they are scooping up their own entrails they are asking what the hell was that for? Alls I said is you probably gargle with orc pee and your mother is your sister who you are now married to? Why did he have to go all ape(beep) on me? Thats totally uncool! Often people mistake the ....who's got the best insults game as intimidation....it can be but more often then not....you are only doing just the opposite. Lately I have noticed a huge influx of challenges towards Phelzaron and his "power" as a war wizard. He is SO intimidating and so this is how you will be that it sends the opposite signal and the player's character feels no choice but to save face by being defiant and hoping the law is sensible enough to not strike them down. It's rather demeaning to be publicly chastised by an authority figure. OOCly I get that I would likely react similar under certain situations. It don't change how Phelzaron will treat you for digging a deeper and deeper hole but I get it haha ;D Trying to intimidate the law though is just not a good idea weather you feel picked on or not. They always can push back harder then you can. It would be like me trying to intimidate a DM, it's just not gunna happen and they are always going to win if thats the route I choose. When Kah was apprehended by a large group of PDK's and adventurers though any ability to be scary or intimidating flew out the cave entrance he was near and he was completely compliant of all they asked he was very much successfully intimidated by show of force. He did not even try to be mouthy. Anyone that was there can attest to Kah's total cooperation. That was because he was out matched and he knew it. He had no hope of reversing it onto them and the PDK or War Wizards don't stand for intimidation and have a reputation for being hard nosed about it so trying was right out. Other situations Kah knew he was outmatched in the forest by 6 to 2 he had no hope of making them fear him and afraid they were not so he had to get cunning and turned it around on them. He convinced the party that to attack them was to invite war on Isinhold and plunge innocents on both sides into pain and misery....suddenly the tables were turned and the whole group left peacefully by being intimidated that maybe they might be in the wrong should something happen. So Kah went from being intimidated by a show of force to flipping it to intimidating the group by a show of words that rang true to the other characters. There was never any rolls involved in any of my situations and honestly in that scenario...had their been it would have bogged the whole thing down...It was quite simply who had the better cards and that time it was Kah. That does not mean rolls don't come in handy...cause they do. One time a character tried to get Phelzaron to escort him to a place that was out of the way and Phelzaron was busy. However Phelzaron also felt obligated to help people so he was torn and I was really not sure if Phelzaron would do it or not. So the dice bag came out. Helped resolve the situation of unsure. By using the players Persuade roll vs. my will roll. I beat the roll and told them I am sorry but I really had other things I had to be doing. It came in handy because I was torn as to how Phelzaron felt about it. Thats when rolls should come into play not when you go, "I can cast Time stop be afraid!" then yank out a dice bag and roll opposed rolls. Bleah! Also if you have 20 Ranks in Intimidate well....that skill roll is the last the players around you have to worry about haha Trust me they are already intimidated so much so that their only recourse is to claim your on a power trip. You have been around for awhile and are probably pretty damn well know. Kah is not close to that power but has already made a name for himself and is starting to gain infamy. Some want to be the ones that down him...thats flattering in my book. That means they gain some prestige by having done so which means Kah is doing his job! Anyways hope some of this helps. I am not against rolls but....honestly they should be used at least online as a deciding factor for when things become unclear. A 1st level player may have good lines to say. It may or may not effect the players....thats just the way it is. I roll with the punches. sometimes it works out other times it don't but to really establish a rep you got to back it up....few respect the dice bag as a good means to convey how your character is doing and how the opposing character is doing in resisting...this ain't table top. I understand wanting Intimidate to be legitimatized but it is a lot to ask a player to roll over when 90% of the time only thing gets him running is overwhelming odds or magically induced fear. Intimidate was never meant to be used on PC's in NWN's so short of the method mentioned that takes into account peoples battle experience I can't imagine it ever being used...and even then if you take battle experience into account well...low level characters are never going to intimidate anyone that is more then a few levels higher short horrible roll. When you think on it...the guy that spent 15 points in Intimidation and is say a 15th level whatever...then you take the other guy who is a 15th level whatever...those two just cancel each other out and now it's just a opposed 1D20 with a will modifier. Heres a thought though...what about a opposed rolls The one doing the intimidating gets his level in difference +/- then his Intimidate ranks and 1D20. The one he is trying to intimidate just gets half his level and Will Modifier now we might have a scenario. So say your 10th level with an intimidate skill total of 10 _will mod of 4. The one you are trying to intimidate is 16th level with a will mod of 2 so he has an opposed roll of 10 (1/2 the level + will mod)now are level difference(12 vs. 16) gives your character a - 4 penalty so now your skill effectiveness drops from a 14 to an 10 so the final result is 10 to 10 and now you can roll your D20's. Hey at least your intimidate skill gave you even odds with someone 4 levels higher then you. Problem with all of this is it's a lot of breaking up the flow of the RP just to get a more realistic result. Something easily accomplished in Table top as everything is slow there but here...things are snappy fast by time both players are done rolling all the others have moved on to something else haha. Anyways food for though
|
|
|
Post by glittereye on Oct 18, 2006 9:04:42 GMT -5
And you, Glittereye, maybe you'd want to rethink that comment of yours... Why?
|
|
|
Post by Grozer on Oct 18, 2006 9:09:46 GMT -5
Kah'ruzah is my evil character as some of you are aware of. Intimidation in large part comes through RP and perhaps we are all doing it wrong. Has anyone ever noticed 99% of us don't take one point in intimidation yet we all try to do it anyways through RP? I'll pick on myself as an example. Kah'ruzah has not one point in intimidation yet he is a scary individual. I am not even sure I can help that. Kah has convinced whole groups to leave the Bramblewood all by himself. Sometimes it's because they are afraid other times it's because they don't want to be the one that starts the bloodbath between orcs and humans, elves, dwarves...whatever. It can be intimidating alone just trying to decide if your character feels he is in the right or not. What if hes not? Then he looks like the IC jerk in the encounter (hopefully people don't treat him like he was an OOC jerk just cause he played his character)...and woe to him if he actually gets into a fight and looses on top of it! Poor sod might as well kill himself now if it was in public. This is stuff that very quickly runs through the OOC mind of the player. Technically having never developed it as a skill I should not even be trying to intimidate people. Well sorry but I'll just disagree... intimidation is a skill just like anything else. Its a fine line between placing a bit of fear into someone and getting them so angry you fight. I have sunk points into intimidate for Ranan because I beleive in order to intimidate people you have to have the skill. If we use that logic that the points dont matter then I can roll up a wizard and just RP he has lore or spellcraft I dont see this discussion going anywhere...
|
|
|
Post by quendros on Oct 18, 2006 11:20:47 GMT -5
I read everyone's comments and i think there have been a lot of great points made. Like Grozer said, i do not see this going anywhere either...to many variables to have a simple answer. But one thing i will bring up that i think has some bearing is the racial issue and character background. Quendros lost his parents to Zhents so even though he maybe a pretty level headed half-elven archer/scout, i do try and role play the fact that when up against the Zhents he is less likely to base his actions off of logic and more from emotion. I think that plays in the intimidation argument too. For instance, any half-orc that tries to intimidate Quen and his dwarven buddies is in for a rude awakening no matter what his level or intimidation skill may be! Elves, dwarves and orcs have been fighting forever and I believe that prejudice and hatred for a certain race allow you many rp options that may not be consistent with your characters usual demeanor and behavior.
|
|
|
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 18, 2006 11:54:27 GMT -5
Does immunity to fear give immunity to intimidate ? As per stated in the rules, any creature immune to fear is immune to intimidate. So all you pallies out there can ignore this discussion
|
|
Driderman
Old School
Off-topic conversationalist extraordinaire!
Posts: 357
|
Post by Driderman on Oct 18, 2006 14:49:00 GMT -5
I'll agree with Grozer on this one. I'll also agree that this discussion is probably not going anywhere new except maybe for more suggestions of esoteric ways to roll dice for intimidation ;D
My main point was, and still is, that maybe sometimes people should consider their characters might not be the toughest guy/gal on the block and that maybe sometimes, PCs can be impressed and intimidated by other PCs, even though it stings the players pride. And this should, in my opinion at least, preferably happen without the use of the dicebag since it interrupts the real goal of the game, the roleplaying.
|
|
|
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 18, 2006 14:57:12 GMT -5
My main point was, and still is, that maybe sometimes people should consider their characters might not be the toughest guy/gal on the block and that maybe sometimes, PCs can be impressed and intimidated by other PCs, even though it stings the players pride. And maybe your character just isn't intimidating without any practice in the skill. In my opinion
|
|
Driderman
Old School
Off-topic conversationalist extraordinaire!
Posts: 357
|
Post by Driderman on Oct 18, 2006 14:59:01 GMT -5
My main point was, and still is, that maybe sometimes people should consider their characters might not be the toughest guy/gal on the block and that maybe sometimes, PCs can be impressed and intimidated by other PCs, even though it stings the players pride. And maybe your character just isn't intimidating without any practice in the skill. In my opinion Well, that would explain why no-one has ever acted as if they were intimidated by him...
|
|
|
Post by Pookey on Oct 18, 2006 15:27:44 GMT -5
I think you're only agreeing with Grozer because he intimidated you...
|
|
|
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 18, 2006 15:30:48 GMT -5
I suppose I should rephrase that. And when I said your character, I meant any PC that tries to intimidate.
You shouldn't expect a certain reaction from a player unless there are rules applied in the way that they should respond.
|
|
|
Post by gathera on Oct 18, 2006 15:42:46 GMT -5
Ranan intimidating, the Saviour of Isinhold, never! Heh heh. Great many different ways to portrait intimidation. It is not always just the "Big Axe wielder" types either. Excellent example is Milly. A character that is not physically imposing but gives quite the eerie presence.
|
|
|
Post by SamuraiGoat on Oct 18, 2006 15:43:39 GMT -5
Aw, Milly's a sweetheart, you just have to get to know her.
|
|
|
Post by Hackmaster on Oct 18, 2006 16:29:01 GMT -5
Well...I for one will just continue it the way I was doing it. I think you missed the mark on what I meant Grozer. Intimidate is a skill like any other your right but it is, regardless how you feel about it a skill not well put into the game. Fact is....few people use lore for anything either...give them some damn sourcebooks and they think they have the right to quote em as if their character knows it all. Never making one Lore check...its used mostly to identify items plain and simple. Some of us whop want it to be more worth it try to use it as a sort of General knowledge skill as well but many won't use it and fewer still with no points in it at all somehow know every detail of every monster they encounter and know all about the planes, gods and so on and so forth. So yes...this topic is going nowhere. Except the fact that I sorta thought a forum was for talking about things...a end result does not always have to happen. I learned several things about Intimidation from this topic because I read what a lot of other people wrote which I hope to improve in my own RP but....I suppose since it's going nowhere I will discard all the information Most of us do it different ways. Nor will there ever be a agreement on it since no rules have been layed out for FRC on intimidating someone. Does that mean using your logic that if we go with no Lore or spellcraft points at all that we all have to play idiots who can offer no knowledge unless we take the skill? Thats impractical and I bet none of us play it that way. Skills are more meant to do obscure things and break undecided problems while RPing. Not to decide our every make an move or how we are going to react in every situation or treat every situation. None of us have time to make a roll for every skill...The dicebag technically could take care of all this but thats kinda pushing it IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Laurk on Oct 18, 2006 18:47:36 GMT -5
Paladins are immune to intimidate.
Though I will agree with the level added to you Will save if it is the consensus, I think high level adventures should be every bit, if not more suseptible to intimidate as low levels. High levels "should" have the wisdom to know that they are not invincible and that danger can come in any form... thus they should be MORE suseptible to the "neutral" attitude a failure to resist an intimidation check produces. However, they should also be wise enough to spot a bluff... and that is where the fact that your Will save gets higher with level comes into play. Spell casters are generally smarter, so that makes sense that they have a better chance. I believe adding ones level to it would be too much of a bonus.
People who insult strangers for no reason and otherwise act invincible are typically young and brash, and once they have had their ass handed too them a few times, would learn the value of being well informed before picking a fight against an unknown threat.
There are of course exceptions to every rule, but I cant see that Hrothgar, Vind, Manshin, Gero, or most others would be such exceptions. Perhaps Storm and other Choatic Neutral alighnment characters who are insane could be exceptions.
These are lessons that people on FRC dont really need to learn because they can respawn. However, idealy, to RP a true veteran, one would have to pretend to have a respect for this. As most of us arent going to do it on our own, I support the use of a dice bag.
No matter how your character decides to deal with the fact that someone intimidated him/her after the fact, I believe that we should all react as the dice calls for in the moment. And I for one will enforce that. You cannot ignore a failed fear save vs. a mummy, and a failed save vs. an intimidation check should be no differant.
|
|
|
Post by catmage on Oct 18, 2006 19:48:02 GMT -5
But the fear effect from a mummy is not normal "There's a scary beasty" fear, it's a supernatural ability that is supposed to only work once, and instead of causing a foe to flee, it fills them with a paralyzing sense of despair. This isn't a normal adventurer's second doubts, it's a magical aura attacking a person's ability to reason. It's not the same as a big talking barbarian.
I don't know if will or a level check is more appropriate than a basic will save, but current DnD rules say level + wisdom modifier, if any, is what you use to determine wether you're intimidated. I suppose it's a level check because you are resisting a mundane attempt to cow you, as opposed to a mental attack against you, which is what the will save resists according to the Player's Handbook. Intimdate is throwing your weight around, not using a specific mental ability or spell. So, until specifically told otherwise, that's what I will use in a situation where a person attempts to intimidate my characters.
As for higher level players learning to be cautious, it's already been said that one can be intimidating without making a single skill check, so just because they can beat a dice roll doesn't mean they still won't show respect. For example, Ailren probably could beat Melkroth in a fight, tossing out a Destruction or Implosion from his scrolls, but he wouldn't because he can't truely judge how strong Mel is, just that he's been around a long time, has the power and desire to kill people who irk him, so Ailren will continue to step lightly around him until he has a reason not to.
|
|
Theo
New Member
I enjoy money
Posts: 84
|
Post by Theo on Oct 18, 2006 20:31:52 GMT -5
Aw, Milly's a sweetheart, you just have to get to know her. I agree. She even helped Ratface Dan to become Ratface Dan. You'd never know a more kind-hearted person.
|
|