Because it is Time for a Reminder

[Razgriz]

Hopefully I will not be called foul for this and I will try to explain it with tact and understanding.

Anyways!


How many of you have been part of In character conversations like the example below?

- Character A) Lets go kill The Green Dragon again!
- Character B) I cannot, I killed it three days ago.
- Character B) No wait. I was there 8 days ago so we can indeed go.

Or what about situations like the following ones?

1
- Character A) I need more BUFFS to continue.
- Character B) Sure *begins to cast*
- Character C) Try to keep some, because in the next room, we will need "this and this" and there will be 5 foes that will do "this and that".


2
- *The Party arrives to a puzzle section*
- Character (A) starts to resolve the puzzle, without giving anyone an explanation of what he/she is doing, and without letting those that have not seen it before, to give it a try or to at least make an IC comment about it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that I don't have to explain why IC situations and conversations like these must stop.

Yes, one can remember certain aspects of a dungeon, like perhaps some the foes encountered, some traps and a specific puzzle. However, one must also keep in mind that perhaps others want to be the ones resolving a puzzle AND taking their time doing it.

Perhaps it is their first time in a dungeon and they want to read the dialog of the evil overlord before the party charges in to kill it.

Perhaps they are trying to keep things IC, but IC comments like "I have been here 3 days ago" totally kill that immersion.

Perhaps some are trying to come up with a perfectly cool IC explanation to return somewhere, but instead, others just say "Lets kill that Dragon again!"

[ID10Tango]

"Raises hand*

I plead guilty

[Lady Frost]

This is a pet peeve of mine!

What really gets me is when a character says something that ruins the RP ability to visit that place, either recently, or ever again. Don't tell me you "killed the black dragon recently or worse -again-". Tell me you recently went dragon hunting and you don't feel like it again today. Leave it open and vague. Don't tell me you 'cleared the Fire Giants'. Say you recently fought the Giants back into their castle. Again, leave it vague for us. Can you RP having killed a Frost Giant Jarl? Yes! But do it as a story that's not at a time when my character wants to go there, or make sure you make it sound like it was far enough in the past that it makes sense to be able to go back.

When we're going someplace -ESPECIALLY- a quest-based place... Pretend its new to you, unless you were there previously and had to turn back and you're returning to finish the job. The "Let's go save the War Wizard again" is. so. lame.

The buffing before you go through doors when you didn't before any of the other doors, and similar stuff is annoying too. OH! How does -everyone- know to not walk between the two pillars in the WW Demi Plane? Someone explain that to me. All of a sudden you decide to randomly chop up the ice and go around? Nope. Maybe when you see the Adamantine Golem that you've killed 20 times before you stop and say "Oh! Wow!" and pretend like it's not expected.

Please take a moment and consider if you're ruining the immersion for someone else.

[DM Maleficent's Kiss]

I agree this kind of thing gets frustrating and annoying but the way I typically like to deal with it is to just worry about myself and stay IC. More often than not the more I ignore OOC(and also the more people around me ignore OOC as a whole) the less power and influence it has because the individual leading the OOC charge is cutoff. As long as OOC isn't given a foothold after it's first occurrence it usually never wins. OOC usually wins once one other person decides to engage in it and then you see a landslide from several people in the group or just in general where people are standing around. I want to be clear as well I am not referring to useful OOC such as //hey I'll be afk for a few minutes, and that sort of thing, I'm referring to the excessive and unccessary sort. Aside from that I usually look for any possible avenue to convey things at the IC level as opposed to breaking that and going OOC(very rarely do you ever actually need to go OOC).

Even for more concrete numbers related things such as character level, try to RP that and convey to the person you're RP'ing with through what your character knows, or what they can do, take some time to explain things to the other character(s) and get to know them. Maybe you're a wizard and someone just asked you in a tell "what level are you?" so your character volunteers something to the effect in the course of the RP "I'm currently familiar with second circle spells" so now you have an idea both IC and OOC what their skill is and what their level is. If your character is a fighter maybe you begin explaining what kinds of skills you know(based on feats) but make it immersive in the RP sense "I can hit foes with this sword in a way that they sometimes fall down stunned for a few moments" and you can further explain from there, really all you were doing is describing the knockdown in a more creative way.

Anyhow, I won't go on and on but I think the more things are just kept IC in general the better the standard will be and will be maintained. The less excessive OOC is present the more and more just RP will be the normal way of things and the less and less RP lite will be allowed to creep in.

[mandene]

I think that this is one example of behavior, that has led newer players mistakingly believe that FRC is an RPG-light server.


(I'm starting to hate autocorrect)

[malclave]

I'll try to do better, but sometimes the straight lines are too good to pass up. And frankly, too often it seems that staying with IC comments just gets me ignored, while OOC jokes at least get acknowledged.

RP games are fundamentally socially oriented. If people stick with their cliques IC, but will interact with others OOC, that just encourages OOC behavior from outsiders.

[ShadowCatJen]

*hobbles in with a walker*

Back in my day they used to smite folk for talking too much OOC. Thunderbolt and lightening from the skies. Very frightening!

Need to bring back them days and give that OOC talk a what for! Ya can blame it on the wild magic. Hehheh.

[Eldok]

Oct 18, 2019 12:41:22 GMT -5 mandene said:

I think that this is one example of behavior, that has led newer players mistakingly believe that FRC is an RPG-light server.


(I'm starting to hate autocorrect)

Many things make it in sort that FRC is a RPG-light server. That is why people keep acting like that over and over again. Truth is often sad.

[Animayhem]

I have been on group trips to places I have not been or its been a while and a player who obviously frequents it gives a play by play as to what to expect.

It just ruins it and makes you not want to travel with that person again.

Dice rolls are your friend, If you have been a frequent flier use a listen check and if high enough you can say. Hey I think I hear x ahead.

Most often if I hear where people are going, and they mention the creatures, I may give a general hint or two on what can help defeat them but never the layout of the place.

Or if it is a race that is known for setting traps I may say, "best take a trapper". 

Yea the ones with puzzles and someone solving them right away takes the immersion out of the rp.

[Southpaw]

I feel the best way to reconcile the issue brought up in the OP about the 7 day rule specifically is to make the respawn timers take longer, and get rid of the 7 day rule. We all know about "consequences of actions," and the fact that one player's actions might leave results that affect other players, and one of the consequences of killing all the monsters in a dungeon is that the monsters might be dead for a little while. I don't feel the issue here is with the player whose character says, "I just cleared that lair," but with the players who intend to go and clear it again anyways when they've just been informed the lair is clear. I wouldn't expect a dungeon to take 7 full days to respawn after being cleared, but I think the repeat visit merry-go-round can be stopped by a reasonable respawn time. More time between respawns would allow people to retreat through cleared areas if they find the dungeon is over their head without getting mobbed by monsters that aren't supposed to be back for a week. Bodies that (implausibly) can't be carried out can be retrieved without battling even stronger monsters to get to them than you found the first time if stronger PC's are in the rescue party, when the lair is supposed to be clear for 7 days thus your not going back.

The reason dungeons respawn so quickly has to do with making it available for adventuring when someone else comes through. Naturally, we all understand and want that. But this is an example of "gold, XP and grinding at the expense of RP and plausibility." As one player, I reject responsibility for reconciling this one if the reconciliation is for me to break character and not admit to other PC's what my character just did, especially to accommodate a rule that causes so much hassles that it causes in itself. If my character just ate an apple, she'll say so. If she just saw a wanted character go that-a-way, she'll say so. If she just saw a dragon fly over Suzail, she'll say so. If she just cleared the gnoll lair, she'll say so. If there are people who don't appreciate that, then I suggest an adjustment of respawn timers and a removal of the 7 day rule.

[Razgriz]

Oct 19, 2019 16:07:16 GMT -5 Southpaw said:

I feel the best way to reconcile the issue brought up in the OP about the 7 day rule specifically is to make the respawn timers take longer, and get rid of the 7 day rule. We all know about "consequences of actions," and the fact that one player's actions might leave results that affect other players, and one of the consequences of killing all the monsters in a dungeon is that the monsters might be dead for a little while. I don't feel the issue here is with the player whose character says, "I just cleared that lair," but with the players who intend to go and clear it again anyways when they've just been informed the lair is clear. I wouldn't expect a dungeon to take 7 full days to respawn after being cleared, but I think the repeat visit merry-go-round can be stopped by a reasonable respawn time. More time between respawns would allow people to retreat through cleared areas if they find the dungeon is over their head without getting mobbed by monsters that aren't supposed to be back for a week. Bodies that (implausibly) can't be carried out can be retrieved without battling even stronger monsters to get to them than you found the first time if stronger PC's are in the rescue party, when the lair is supposed to be clear for 7 days thus your not going back.

The reason dungeons respawn so quickly has to do with making it available for adventuring when someone else comes through. Naturally, we all understand and want that. But this is an example of "gold, XP and grinding at the expense of RP and plausibility." As one player, I reject responsibility for reconciling this one if the reconciliation is for me to break character and not admit to other PC's what my character just did, especially to accommodate a rule that causes so much hassles that it causes in itself. If my character just ate an apple, she'll say so. If she just saw a wanted character go that-a-way, she'll say so. If she just saw a dragon fly over Suzail, she'll say so. If she just cleared the gnoll lair, she'll say so. If there are people who don't appreciate that, then I suggest an adjustment of respawn timers and a removal of the 7 day rule.

No rules or anything needs to be changed if dungeons are treated and seen differently. Yes, you can say "I cleared the gnoll cave", but you can leave it vague too. Instead, why not saying "I fought gnolls in one of their caves". It makes more sense if the characters make it sound as if there is more than 1 gnoll cave in all of Cormyr.

[mandene]

Oct 20, 2019 10:27:44 GMT -5 Razgriz said:

Oct 19, 2019 16:07:16 GMT -5 Southpaw said:

I feel the best way to reconcile the issue brought up in the OP about the 7 day rule specifically is to make the respawn timers take longer, and get rid of the 7 day rule. We all know about "consequences of actions," and the fact that one player's actions might leave results that affect other players, and one of the consequences of killing all the monsters in a dungeon is that the monsters might be dead for a little while. I don't feel the issue here is with the player whose character says, "I just cleared that lair," but with the players who intend to go and clear it again anyways when they've just been informed the lair is clear. I wouldn't expect a dungeon to take 7 full days to respawn after being cleared, but I think the repeat visit merry-go-round can be stopped by a reasonable respawn time. More time between respawns would allow people to retreat through cleared areas if they find the dungeon is over their head without getting mobbed by monsters that aren't supposed to be back for a week. Bodies that (implausibly) can't be carried out can be retrieved without battling even stronger monsters to get to them than you found the first time if stronger PC's are in the rescue party, when the lair is supposed to be clear for 7 days thus your not going back.

The reason dungeons respawn so quickly has to do with making it available for adventuring when someone else comes through. Naturally, we all understand and want that. But this is an example of "gold, XP and grinding at the expense of RP and plausibility." As one player, I reject responsibility for reconciling this one if the reconciliation is for me to break character and not admit to other PC's what my character just did, especially to accommodate a rule that causes so much hassles that it causes in itself. If my character just ate an apple, she'll say so. If she just saw a wanted character go that-a-way, she'll say so. If she just saw a dragon fly over Suzail, she'll say so. If she just cleared the gnoll lair, she'll say so. If there are people who don't appreciate that, then I suggest an adjustment of respawn timers and a removal of the 7 day rule.

No rules or anything needs to be changed if dungeons are treated and seen differently. Yes, you can say "I cleared the gnoll cave", but you can leave it vague too. Instead, why not saying "I fought gnolls in one of their caves". It makes more sense if the characters make it sound as if there is more than 1 gnoll cave in all of Cormyr.

A good save would be to not claim that the cave was completely "cleared out". A thoughtful gesture would be to say that you think many of them were out hunting or scouting or raiding or what not and could be back by now.

[Southpaw]

Oct 20, 2019 10:27:44 GMT -5 Razgriz said:

Oct 19, 2019 16:07:16 GMT -5 Southpaw said:

I feel the best way to reconcile the issue brought up in the OP about the 7 day rule specifically is to make the respawn timers take longer, and get rid of the 7 day rule. We all know about "consequences of actions," and the fact that one player's actions might leave results that affect other players, and one of the consequences of killing all the monsters in a dungeon is that the monsters might be dead for a little while. I don't feel the issue here is with the player whose character says, "I just cleared that lair," but with the players who intend to go and clear it again anyways when they've just been informed the lair is clear. I wouldn't expect a dungeon to take 7 full days to respawn after being cleared, but I think the repeat visit merry-go-round can be stopped by a reasonable respawn time. More time between respawns would allow people to retreat through cleared areas if they find the dungeon is over their head without getting mobbed by monsters that aren't supposed to be back for a week. Bodies that (implausibly) can't be carried out can be retrieved without battling even stronger monsters to get to them than you found the first time if stronger PC's are in the rescue party, when the lair is supposed to be clear for 7 days thus your not going back.

The reason dungeons respawn so quickly has to do with making it available for adventuring when someone else comes through. Naturally, we all understand and want that. But this is an example of "gold, XP and grinding at the expense of RP and plausibility." As one player, I reject responsibility for reconciling this one if the reconciliation is for me to break character and not admit to other PC's what my character just did, especially to accommodate a rule that causes so much hassles that it causes in itself. If my character just ate an apple, she'll say so. If she just saw a wanted character go that-a-way, she'll say so. If she just saw a dragon fly over Suzail, she'll say so. If she just cleared the gnoll lair, she'll say so. If there are people who don't appreciate that, then I suggest an adjustment of respawn timers and a removal of the 7 day rule.

No rules or anything needs to be changed if folks treat dungeons differently. Yes, you can say "I cleared the gnoll cave", but you can leave it vague too. Instead, why not saying "I fought gnolls in one of their caves of the Bramblewood". It makes more sense if the charatcers make it sound as if there is more than 1 gnoll cave in all of Cormyr.

That still leaves the matter of why my character isn’t going adventuring with her closest friends and players I like to play with on an adventure the character would do. That together with the continuity issue that if there’s another cave for you, then there is another for me too. What my character generally says is to the effect of, “Well, I just did that, but I’d be happy to go if you’re going,” and let someone else come up with a reason not to go. I still don’t go back, because the other person leads the group somewhere else, and I’m fine with that. I’m just tired of being the one to break character and not do that which my character would do, to the effect of not doing a dungeon I like with my character’s close friends played by players I enjoy playing with, in the name of a rule I don’t support and which only stops those who follow it.

[NHmikey]

Three simple points....

You don't have to support rules to follow them.

There are literally probably thousands of things characters would do, but can't because of a variety of reasons (rule #1, mechanical limitations, other rules).

Suspension of disbelief! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Wylan]

I usually don't weigh in on things like this, but here goes. Some of this is just me playing Devil's Advocate, so take it as you will.

This server, while heavy RP oriented is lacking in the whole Risk/Reward balance to that end. Why should I spend two weeks IC 99% of the time for one, maybe two, measly 100 points of DM xp when I could log in, load up on supplies, and power through dungeons till I log out? Why should I bother fleshing out my character when ultimately it doesn't matter how much backstory I write, or how many gaps I leave for DM's to fill in or take and run with? What's the point in making a character who's sole purpose is RP, when I'm going to end up spending a majority of my time alone in a town waiting for people to stroll by and not be in their usual rush to go murder the equivalence of the population of NYC in monsters and take their stuff?

This has been an issue that I've seen on a few servers. Part of it stems from trying to turn an Action-RPG into a RP based RPG with action. Let's face it. The entire design of NWN wasn't really "Hey lets make a computer game that's PnP with 3d models and visuals!" it was "Hey, lets make a dungeon crawler that's based off the rules and settings of DnD's Forgotten Realms!" The modding community, DM's, Admin, and even we players do our best, but it still boils down to how the base game is coded and designed.

That said, I've seen a few things about this server that, had I not been a many year veteran before I joined this server, I wouldn't have stayed more than a few hours before I said "Screw this. Punching myself in the crotch would be more productive and enjoyable."

Ultimately, the only characters I can judge are my own. I'll never tell someone else how they should RP their character. It's -their- character after all. Not only that, but there are likely players with all levels of RP experience. From brand new to those of us who've been around since the original NWN was a new release. Trying to hold someone with only a few hours, days, weeks, or even months of RP under their belt to someone who's been around since dirt was invented is just simply a bad idea and will turn new people off of the server. Bitching at someone over how they're RPing their character will likely do the same.

To me, the beauty of RPing is that it's a personal creative outlet of nearly limitless possibilities. It can range anywhere from truely enjoyable and fun, to just plain boring, to mind-bogglingly frustrating and angering. You never know what's around the next corner or if the DM is about to drop a dragon on your head or a pile of gold (Odds are it's a dragon though...). And while yes, being focused on RP is the keystone to this server, remember that this -is- a game, and is meant to be enjoyable. My real life is far too stressful for me to go from there, to what I intend as my relaxation and escape, only to have it be just as stressful.

Sorry for any rambling and ranting. But it's just my two copper.

[DM Maleficent's Kiss]

Oct 20, 2019 11:53:34 GMT -5 Wylan said:

I usually don't weigh in on things like this, but here goes. Some of this is just me playing Devil's Advocate, so take it as you will.

This server, while heavy RP oriented is lacking in the whole Risk/Reward balance to that end. Why should I spend two weeks IC 99% of the time for one, maybe two, measly 100 points of DM xp when I could log in, load up on supplies, and power through dungeons till I log out? Why should I bother fleshing out my character when ultimately it doesn't matter how much backstory I write, or how many gaps I leave for DM's to fill in or take and run with? What's the point in making a character who's sole purpose is RP, when I'm going to end up spending a majority of my time alone in a town waiting for people to stroll by and not be in their usual rush to go murder the equivalence of the population of NYC in monsters and take their stuff?

This has been an issue that I've seen on a few servers. Part of it stems from trying to turn an Action-RPG into a RP based RPG with action. Let's face it. The entire design of NWN wasn't really "Hey lets make a computer game that's PnP with 3d models and visuals!" it was "Hey, lets make a dungeon crawler that's based off the rules and settings of DnD's Forgotten Realms!" The modding community, DM's, Admin, and even we players do our best, but it still boils down to how the base game is coded and designed.

That said, I've seen a few things about this server that, had I not been a many year veteran before I joined this server, I wouldn't have stayed more than a few hours before I said "Screw this. Punching myself in the crotch would be more productive and enjoyable."

Ultimately, the only characters I can judge are my own. I'll never tell someone else how they should RP their character. It's -their- character after all. Not only that, but there are likely players with all levels of RP experience. From brand new to those of us who've been around since the original NWN was a new release. Trying to hold someone with only a few hours, days, weeks, or even months of RP under their belt to someone who's been around since dirt was invented is just simply a bad idea and will turn new people off of the server. Bitching at someone over how they're RPing their character will likely do the same.

To me, the beauty of RPing is that it's a personal creative outlet of nearly limitless possibilities. It can range anywhere from truely enjoyable and fun, to just plain boring, to mind-bogglingly frustrating and angering. You never know what's around the next corner or if the DM is about to drop a dragon on your head or a pile of gold (Odds are it's a dragon though...). And while yes, being focused on RP is the keystone to this server, remember that this -is- a game, and is meant to be enjoyable. My real life is far too stressful for me to go from there, to what I intend as my relaxation and escape, only to have it be just as stressful.

Sorry for any rambling and ranting. But it's just my two copper.

I like this and thought you made some fantastic points here that put things in perspective.

[Lady Frost]

Oct 20, 2019 11:53:34 GMT -5 Wylan said:

I usually don't weigh in on things like this, but here goes. Some of this is just me playing Devil's Advocate, so take it as you will.

This server, while heavy RP oriented is lacking in the whole Risk/Reward balance to that end. Why should I spend two weeks IC 99% of the time for one, maybe two, measly 100 points of DM xp when I could log in, load up on supplies, and power through dungeons till I log out? Why should I bother fleshing out my character when ultimately it doesn't matter how much backstory I write, or how many gaps I leave for DM's to fill in or take and run with? What's the point in making a character who's sole purpose is RP, when I'm going to end up spending a majority of my time alone in a town waiting for people to stroll by and not be in their usual rush to go murder the equivalence of the population of NYC in monsters and take their stuff?

This has been an issue that I've seen on a few servers. Part of it stems from trying to turn an Action-RPG into a RP based RPG with action. Let's face it. The entire design of NWN wasn't really "Hey lets make a computer game that's PnP with 3d models and visuals!" it was "Hey, lets make a dungeon crawler that's based off the rules and settings of DnD's Forgotten Realms!" The modding community, DM's, Admin, and even we players do our best, but it still boils down to how the base game is coded and designed.

That said, I've seen a few things about this server that, had I not been a many year veteran before I joined this server, I wouldn't have stayed more than a few hours before I said "Screw this. Punching myself in the crotch would be more productive and enjoyable."

Ultimately, the only characters I can judge are my own. I'll never tell someone else how they should RP their character. It's -their- character after all. Not only that, but there are likely players with all levels of RP experience. From brand new to those of us who've been around since the original NWN was a new release. Trying to hold someone with only a few hours, days, weeks, or even months of RP under their belt to someone who's been around since dirt was invented is just simply a bad idea and will turn new people off of the server. Bitching at someone over how they're RPing their character will likely do the same.

To me, the beauty of RPing is that it's a personal creative outlet of nearly limitless possibilities. It can range anywhere from truely enjoyable and fun, to just plain boring, to mind-bogglingly frustrating and angering. You never know what's around the next corner or if the DM is about to drop a dragon on your head or a pile of gold (Odds are it's a dragon though...). And while yes, being focused on RP is the keystone to this server, remember that this -is- a game, and is meant to be enjoyable. My real life is far too stressful for me to go from there, to what I intend as my relaxation and escape, only to have it be just as stressful.

Sorry for any rambling and ranting. But it's just my two copper.

My answer to this is simple. "What sort of characters do you want, and what do you enjoy about playing?" And the answer to that can be different day to day, and even hour to hour. Zodika is a story-building character, and I differentiate 'story' from 'RP'. Lots of characters RP, but very few build stories, especially ones that encompass many characters within it. And don't feel I'm pointing fingers and saying one is better than the other. Story-building is very slow, very frustrating, and takes both excessive dedication and unnecessary patience. It's generally not rewarding for a while, and -certainly- not rewarding in terms of gold and xp. However, the rewards for it can't be matched. From affecting server changes to more, no characters will likely have more influence than story-based characters. But as I said, it's long and boring. Sometimes I sit for -hours- making sure Zoe is available when the DM happens to have a few minutes between appointments. But that's the curse I chose for Zoe and she has left her mark because of it. Darkharp is another great example of a story-building character.

I won't fault anyone for not having story-building characters. First, everyone can't be one. There has to be characters who join other people's stories. And two, it's frustrating and boring a lot of the time. That's not what people want from NWN, usually. Kherei and Lavina both RP consistently, but until recently they didn't really build stories. When I'm on them, I just want to RP a bit and adventure. As was said above, NWN and D&D, in general, are adventure-based and wanting to just go kill things and RP-lite shouldn't be demonized. I'd certainly encourage people to try to be involved in at least one story, but if all your character does is RP and adventure, fine - so long as that's the reward and expectation you have for playing.

[Lady Frost]

I will add that I do find it disappointing sometimes though that so many character hooks are left open. I feel like DM's prefer to start their own plots from scratch rather than use character hooks to build plots from. Instead of "New character January" where everyone starts new to 'get involved with each other' we should have "DM start a plot from a character hook January" so instead of making even -more- characters that don't do anything, we can take a current character and build a story around them that others can get involved in and have a reason to play with.

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

Oct 20, 2019 16:50:12 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

Oct 20, 2019 11:53:34 GMT -5 Wylan said:

I usually don't weigh in on things like this, but here goes. Some of this is just me playing Devil's Advocate, so take it as you will.

This server, while heavy RP oriented is lacking in the whole Risk/Reward balance to that end. Why should I spend two weeks IC 99% of the time for one, maybe two, measly 100 points of DM xp when I could log in, load up on supplies, and power through dungeons till I log out? Why should I bother fleshing out my character when ultimately it doesn't matter how much backstory I write, or how many gaps I leave for DM's to fill in or take and run with? What's the point in making a character who's sole purpose is RP, when I'm going to end up spending a majority of my time alone in a town waiting for people to stroll by and not be in their usual rush to go murder the equivalence of the population of NYC in monsters and take their stuff?

This has been an issue that I've seen on a few servers. Part of it stems from trying to turn an Action-RPG into a RP based RPG with action. Let's face it. The entire design of NWN wasn't really "Hey lets make a computer game that's PnP with 3d models and visuals!" it was "Hey, lets make a dungeon crawler that's based off the rules and settings of DnD's Forgotten Realms!" The modding community, DM's, Admin, and even we players do our best, but it still boils down to how the base game is coded and designed.

That said, I've seen a few things about this server that, had I not been a many year veteran before I joined this server, I wouldn't have stayed more than a few hours before I said "Screw this. Punching myself in the crotch would be more productive and enjoyable."

Ultimately, the only characters I can judge are my own. I'll never tell someone else how they should RP their character. It's -their- character after all. Not only that, but there are likely players with all levels of RP experience. From brand new to those of us who've been around since the original NWN was a new release. Trying to hold someone with only a few hours, days, weeks, or even months of RP under their belt to someone who's been around since dirt was invented is just simply a bad idea and will turn new people off of the server. Bitching at someone over how they're RPing their character will likely do the same.

To me, the beauty of RPing is that it's a personal creative outlet of nearly limitless possibilities. It can range anywhere from truely enjoyable and fun, to just plain boring, to mind-bogglingly frustrating and angering. You never know what's around the next corner or if the DM is about to drop a dragon on your head or a pile of gold (Odds are it's a dragon though...). And while yes, being focused on RP is the keystone to this server, remember that this -is- a game, and is meant to be enjoyable. My real life is far too stressful for me to go from there, to what I intend as my relaxation and escape, only to have it be just as stressful.

Sorry for any rambling and ranting. But it's just my two copper.

My answer to this is simple. "What sort of characters do you want, and what do you enjoy about playing?" And the answer to that can be different day to day, and even hour to hour. Zodika is a story-building character, and I differentiate 'story' from 'RP'. Lots of characters RP, but very few build stories, especially ones that encompass many characters within it. And don't feel I'm pointing fingers and saying one is better than the other. Story-building is very slow, very frustrating, and takes both excessive dedication and unnecessary patience. It's generally not rewarding for a while, and -certainly- not rewarding in terms of gold and xp. However, the rewards for it can't be matched. From affecting server changes to more, no characters will likely have more influence than story-based characters. But as I said, it's long and boring. Sometimes I sit for -hours- making sure Zoe is available when the DM happens to have a few minutes between appointments. But that's the curse I chose for Zoe and she has left her mark because of it. Darkharp is another great example of a story-building character.

I won't fault anyone for not having story-building characters. First, everyone can't be one. There has to be characters who join other people's stories. And two, it's frustrating and boring a lot of the time. That's not what people want from NWN, usually. Kherei and Lavina both RP consistently, but until recently they didn't really build stories. When I'm on them, I just want to RP a bit and adventure. As was said above, NWN and D&D, in general, are adventure-based and wanting to just go kill things and RP-lite shouldn't be demonized. I'd certainly encourage people to try to be involved in at least one story, but if all your character does is RP and adventure, fine - so long as that's the reward and expectation you have for playing.

I concur. Story building characters arent for everyone. They are necessary for a good roleplay server because they generate action and intrigue independently of DMs, yet easily enhanced by DMs.

[Animayhem]

Oct 20, 2019 16:57:01 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

I will add that I do find it disappointing sometimes though that so many character hooks are left open. I feel like DM's prefer to start their own plots from scratch rather than use character hooks to build plots from. Instead of "New character January" where everyone starts new to 'get involved with each other' we should have "DM start a plot from a character hook January" so instead of making even -more- characters that don't do anything, we can take a current character and build a story around them that others can get involved in and have a reason to play with.

I have had a few of these with Marister. It helped him grow as a character and people also understood a bit more about him. I  I would like a side thing for A'zu'ra and Naralith however I am aware dm's are busy and I respect that 

It is easy enough to write some background and rp as food for the dm's. 

[mandene]

Oct 20, 2019 17:49:48 GMT -5 Masterbard Alyster Darkharp said:

Oct 20, 2019 16:50:12 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

My answer to this is simple. "What sort of characters do you want, and what do you enjoy about playing?" And the answer to that can be different day to day, and even hour to hour. Zodika is a story-building character, and I differentiate 'story' from 'RP'. Lots of characters RP, but very few build stories, especially ones that encompass many characters within it. And don't feel I'm pointing fingers and saying one is better than the other. Story-building is very slow, very frustrating, and takes both excessive dedication and unnecessary patience. It's generally not rewarding for a while, and -certainly- not rewarding in terms of gold and xp. However, the rewards for it can't be matched. From affecting server changes to more, no characters will likely have more influence than story-based characters. But as I said, it's long and boring. Sometimes I sit for -hours- making sure Zoe is available when the DM happens to have a few minutes between appointments. But that's the curse I chose for Zoe and she has left her mark because of it. Darkharp is another great example of a story-building character.

I won't fault anyone for not having story-building characters. First, everyone can't be one. There has to be characters who join other people's stories. And two, it's frustrating and boring a lot of the time. That's not what people want from NWN, usually. Kherei and Lavina both RP consistently, but until recently they didn't really build stories. When I'm on them, I just want to RP a bit and adventure. As was said above, NWN and D&D, in general, are adventure-based and wanting to just go kill things and RP-lite shouldn't be demonized. I'd certainly encourage people to try to be involved in at least one story, but if all your character does is RP and adventure, fine - so long as that's the reward and expectation you have for playing.

I concur. Story building characters arent for everyone. They are necessary for a good roleplay server because they generate action and intrigue independently of DMs, yet easily enhanced by DMs.

I third this.

Those that want to be story-builders but are impatient about it, often end up attention seeking drama queens/kings.

I'm currently not playing a full story character. I'm more of an RP with some story pieces for those that manage to pick up on things. It might, however, change.

[lucid]

Oct 20, 2019 16:57:01 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

I will add that I do find it disappointing sometimes though that so many character hooks are left open. I feel like DM's prefer to start their own plots from scratch rather than use character hooks to build plots from. Instead of "New character January" where everyone starts new to 'get involved with each other' we should have "DM start a plot from a character hook January" so instead of making even -more- characters that don't do anything, we can take a current character and build a story around them that others can get involved in and have a reason to play with.

As someone who has had none of my many character hooks bitten even once in fifteen years on this server, I support this message.

[ShadowCatJen]

Oct 22, 2019 8:22:36 GMT -5 lucid said:

Oct 20, 2019 16:57:01 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

I will add that I do find it disappointing sometimes though that so many character hooks are left open. I feel like DM's prefer to start their own plots from scratch rather than use character hooks to build plots from. Instead of "New character January" where everyone starts new to 'get involved with each other' we should have "DM start a plot from a character hook January" so instead of making even -more- characters that don't do anything, we can take a current character and build a story around them that others can get involved in and have a reason to play with.

As someone who has had none of my many character hooks bitten even once in fifteen years on this server, I support this message.

Speaking from an DM perspective, while this idea might sound like it has merit there are a couple of drawbacks that make a DM avoid basing a plot on one character's background.

There's the aspect of the individual player not really wanting anything done regarding their background as it was only there to help explain the PCs current attitude and mentality. Granted, this can be avoided by having the player vie in for such a thing such as EDM Plotters Extra Painful Plotter Plot where if you are taking part in one of their plots you can give them extra fodder to make things potentially extra ouch or extra wow. However, even this has a limit.

Unlike a table top game where the DM has only a handful of PCs to study and select plot points from, NWN PW DMs have to deal with countless numbers of PC that may get involved in their plot. Some will drop out, others will join in, and after a while keeping everyone's backgrounds and histories in mind becomes almost impossible. Unless the DM is willing to say "sorry, these five PCs are the only ones allowed to be involved in this plot" (which is never going to happen unless you -really- want nasty accusations of favoritism flying around) then you're really not going to see too many DM run plots based strictly on player built backgrounds.

I'm not saying that it can't happen. It's just that there are so many pitfalls regarding it that a lot of DMs will avoid it.

But if the team were to do it, I'd suggest using EDM Plotter's example and have it that only players who are willing to have their PC's background used as part of a plot to have it posted somewhere. There would also have to be an understanding by the player base to not get jealous if their particular background isn't chosen to be used. The Player's Advocates would have to be very mindful of others pointing out favoritism and keep that boiling pot burning on low at all times.

[Animayhem]

If the player is willing to have an aspect of their story acted on then go for it.  When I was first here, I mainly had Marister at the time.

DM's in observing him used him to help further a two part story which involved other players. It was a nice surprise.  Marister was one of many victims of a serial killer and a prime target. Again I was not the main focus but aspects of Marister's life help continue the story line.

There was one story line which I had asked dm's to follow up on, a personal  goal.   It took a while before they could come accomodate but it was worth the wait.


So dm"s are watching players and their character's.  So you never know when they may pop up.

If you feel strongly your character as an aspect of their life which is important to act on , send the DM's information, it may be a while but they are
usually good at letting you know if it is feasible.

[Sioladuil]

Important to remember aswell... Some people are absolute in what their characters are:

1: I will never be good/evil!
2: They will never do X.
3:They will never convert or change alignment!

Keep your mind open. Let your characters be corrupted, let them be redeemed. When you put hard boundaries on a character that will never change... How can any RP or story that isn't tailored to your PC be fun?

One of my personal favourite moments on FRC was a DM Event/Interaction which lasted a few weeks. I had allowed my CG character to be corrupted and then I let him be redeemed. Because that is the way the RP was going. A DM caught wind of him seeking redemption and I noticed a definite change in the amount of Good/Evil points he was receiving. Eventually he got to a point where he was 1 or 2 points from becoming CG and an event triggered... DM ran it, loads of fun, and my PC and his closest had a great time.

The point, keep your minds open. Give people the chance to influence and effect your character. Have them persue goals and dreams and a DM may take Interest. They may not. But that's not the point. The DM interaction is great. We all love it. But the fun comes in the roleplay which builds to said events. Ultimately DM's are players to, which we all forget at times, they will preference fun things over boring things. So make damned sure that your RP and stories are fun and beneficial for all involved and you are more likely to get attention.

[malclave]

Depends on the player. You mentioned "I will never be evil"... that's one of my personal rules, at least for predominantly RP games like D&D/NWN. I've played Evil characters in tabletop before, and it didn't go well, even when I was deliberately trying to NOT play the stereotypical "betray everyone" Evil. Yeah, maybe the story played out well, especially my character's final battle where he betrayed the party, but it really wasn't all that much fun for me... even the minimal emotional investment I had in the character by then made me feel like crap. I was glad when the character died.

Sometimes boundaries are good.

[Sioladuil]

Yeah, I see your point, I don't necessarily agree with it.

The same mindset that sees "stupid evil" doing nothing but rampaging around the server just pvping everyone is the same as the one that sees "stupid good" not bending either.

And no one is talking about going from extreme to the to their other. But an LG character realising that sometimes, just sometimes, you need to be a little shady to get stuff done might see a few chaotic points. They are still LG but that little bit of chaos changes the characters outlook. They might realise that that PvP hound is never gonna face justice so they murder them. Few points towards evil. They are still LG, but, their character changes.

Most of the all time great PC's on FRC have changed over the years. They are not the same characters they where years back. Allowing that change allows your character to develop and their outlook to change while their core values remain the same.

[Lady Frost]

Oct 22, 2019 9:40:39 GMT -5 ShadowCatJen said:

Oct 22, 2019 8:22:36 GMT -5 lucid said:

As someone who has had none of my many character hooks bitten even once in fifteen years on this server, I support this message.

Speaking from an DM perspective, while this idea might sound like it has merit there are a couple of drawbacks that make a DM avoid basing a plot on one character's background.

There's the aspect of the individual player not really wanting anything done regarding their background as it was only there to help explain the PCs current attitude and mentality. Granted, this can be avoided by having the player vie in for such a thing such as EDM Plotters Extra Painful Plotter Plot where if you are taking part in one of their plots you can give them extra fodder to make things potentially extra ouch or extra wow. However, even this has a limit.

Unlike a table top game where the DM has only a handful of PCs to study and select plot points from, NWN PW DMs have to deal with countless numbers of PC that may get involved in their plot. Some will drop out, others will join in, and after a while keeping everyone's backgrounds and histories in mind becomes almost impossible. Unless the DM is willing to say "sorry, these five PCs are the only ones allowed to be involved in this plot" (which is never going to happen unless you -really- want nasty accusations of favoritism flying around) then you're really not going to see too many DM run plots based strictly on player built backgrounds.

I'm not saying that it can't happen. It's just that there are so many pitfalls regarding it that a lot of DMs will avoid it.

But if the team were to do it, I'd suggest using EDM Plotter's example and have it that only players who are willing to have their PC's background used as part of a plot to have it posted somewhere. There would also have to be an understanding by the player base to not get jealous if their particular background isn't chosen to be used. The Player's Advocates would have to be very mindful of others pointing out favoritism and keep that boiling pot burning on low at all times.

I'd certainly hope a DM would make sure the player wanted it first and not just pull some random piece of information out and start a plot with it. I'm talking about players who have directly listed plot hooks that are open for people to pull from. You list a few such things as "Possible Connections for Other Players to Use:" and even the "Things Undecided About Mynian" could play into a small plot that a DM could ask you about to use.

DM's already have to deal with vast numbers of people getting involved in a plot unless they curtail it through the passing of information or something else. Players drop out and come in already. Heck, even DM's drop out in the middle of plots. However, I'm not talking about huge server changing plots. Small little month-long story plots are far less likely to see that.

I've been actively fishing Zodika's backstory into the DM waters for 9 years and nothing. I've hung out the history between her and the 'orthodox Loviatans' plain to see, but I'm the only one to initiate plots -against- her. I've had Loviatar be unspeakably cruel to her and no DM's have stepped in to be involved unless I specifically ask for something. DM Hawk had an NPC attack Zoe once during a plot in Amn, that might be it. I just RP through it all my own controlling what NPC's nobody takes initiative to control. Fortunately, Zodika has put me, as a player, in a very fortunate position - one most players aren't in. I have a lot of control over NPC-like activities around her, from the Gargoyle NPC's to her personal back-story NPCs, there are a lot to work with. The current plot around Zoe's death is a great example. In the nearly two weeks of the plot no DM has inquired about anything. I'm left to try to control all the NPC's around her for the nearly dozen players who are involved, while not being a DM and having the IG tools to do it. We sit for hours and have PM sessions about conversations with NPCs, and I have almost a dozen forum PM threads as I try to play DM to this mini-story that nobody seems to want to help with. "Start your own stories is what they tell us"... well... some of us are. "The DM's are busy right now and can't get involved." That's fair, I understand. But for 9 years they couldn't get involved?

I know I'm not the only player with a character with a deep history to play with. Zoe's current plot around her death has grabbed at players I never expected it to reach and it's been a great pull for people to be involved in her story. -Those- are the types of stories that help create rich characters who other players and characters understand and enjoy - not seemingly random ones where "Cormyr is going to be destroyed -again-". I feel like that's already happened 3 times this year, and two were part of the same plot. Be more creative than 'super bad guy threatens everyone's existence' and make it about our characters. Zodika's death-story could have been blown up into a significant plot if a DM took it. Think of the ideology conflict characters face when Super-Evil Loviatan turns on Less-Evil Loviatan for control of her church. Lots of other characters could probably offer similar bases for server-wide plots. We don't need randomness to fuel a large plot.

//Goes off on a tangent.

[malclave]

Oct 22, 2019 13:29:08 GMT -5 Sioladuil said:

Yeah, I see your point, I don't necessarily agree with it.

The same mindset that sees "stupid evil" doing nothing but rampaging around the server just pvping everyone is the same as the one that sees "stupid good" not bending either.

And no one is talking about going from extreme to the to their other. But an LG character realising that sometimes, just sometimes, you need to be a little shady to get stuff done might see a few chaotic points. They are still LG but that little bit of chaos changes the characters outlook. They might realise that that PvP hound is never gonna face justice so they murder them. Few points towards evil. They are still LG, but, their character changes.

Most of the all time great PC's on FRC have changed over the years. They are not the same characters they where years back. Allowing that change allows your character to develop and their outlook to change while their core values remain the same.

Well, that's not quite the same thing as playing evil characters, which is what I thought you had meant. I do agree that actions like you describe can be very beneficial to character development. I'm not even opposed to going further, and in fact changing a character's core values... if this were a tabletop game, one of my characters would almost certainly have moved along the Law/ Chaos axis already.

But, if any of my characters were to slip to an Evil alignment, I would probably retire that character (or even offer it to the DMs to use as an NPC if they wanted). Because I know myself well enough as a player.

[Sioladuil]

Most people unfortunately assume that alignment shift means good to evil or evil to good. Not the case at all. I have more fun with the Lawful and Chaotic aspects of my characters alignments than I do with the good/evil parts.