The delicate topic of soloing

[scramasax]

dirkperfect's post got me thinking, so here goes...

Soloing is frowned upon, and I can understand why. Essentially, it's selfish play. You're not contributing to the enjoyment of anyone except yourself. The PW was not built for individual benefit, but the benefit of all the community playing in it. Worse, when lag is a problem, you do nothing but eat resources. All this remains immutably true, so what's my point?

Basically, I'd just to share and hear the human player side of things. After all, behind every RPed PC is a RL person.

Truth be told, I sometimes solo because I had a tiring day at the office, and I don't feel like doing anything but a bit of hack and slash. If I really wanted to talk, I'd give up my quiet time, stop the game and go talk to my wife. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'd be better off in a hack-n-slash server, because there are many days that I DO want to interact with other folk in this nice FR world. You just can't do that in a hack-n-slash PW.

I also think the greatest inherent flaw of the D&D is that it encourages diversity in race and class in parties. It's quite against the nature of things, imho. It just doesn't feel right for a bunch of strangers of conflicting races, alignments and classes to suddenly band together to do great deeds. I try to ameliorate that by banding with PCs of the same race or skills, and definitely, of good alignment. For example, I had great chemistry with a few elfy-elves in my last server, and I got a good vibe from the RP expertise of the resident elfy-elves Vinduil and HE Quendros in the short dealings I had with them. What happens when I can't find anyone like that online at GMT+8?

More selfishly, I find myself gritting my teeth having to party up with "elves" that say things like "ok, sure" or "nah". I strongly believe in RP by example, but as everyone knows, it is no guarantee for improvement. On a knackering day, I want to play with people I get along with. Must I be confined to some lonely non-combat area until someone with whom I gel nicely comes along?

I recognise that many talented RPers have the knack of slipping into different personalities when playing different PCs. I am one of those sad RPers that RPs my own personaility. It just feels... right. The trouble is, my personaility quirks come into play. RL, I am polite, fairly well spoken, but slightly arrogant and aloof. I prefer few deep friendships to plenty of party-friends. This translates directly to my PCs.

Don't get me wrong, the picture isn't as bleak as it may seem. I do think I am a skilled, willing and regular RPer. I also believe and meant everything I said at the start of this post. Soloing is selfish. I'm just saying that smackdown isn't always necessary, and hope that the powers that be in FRC can gift tired and difficult ole guys like me some quiet time in a beautiful place now and then.

[shimmerxxx]

Personally, I try to avoid soloing for any length of time, but if I'm only on-line for half an hour or so and there's nobody in town to talk to, why not?

As I don't get to play as often as some other players, a bit of soloing when I have the time helps my character keep up with the friends he has made.

I've also made quite a few friends by setting out solo, only to come across other soloers, and partying up!


Shimmer

[sangrow]

I always start out soloing and if other characters cross my path that does want to party why the heck not...its more fun to go in a group and have some RP dynamics...however I do not sit aorund in town for an hour to wait on a party candidate to turn up...and I rather not party with a person that dont actually need my assitance e.g. a too high level character.

I like to be challenged and I rather die numerous times than to take the easy path doing a cleric or party with high level character that does all the fighting for me and gives me all the loot. And as the first speaker said: sometimes you just have 30 min to use up and sometimes hack and slack is just the ticket.

[ShadowCatJen]

Everything in moderation.

There is nothing wrong with soloing. It's true, sometimes you just need a few moments by yourself to take on a few creatures, see how they do or just unwind from the stress of the day. Some folks will do so just to give themselves a chance to get into character. Sometimes you being just 100 xp short of your level is enough to entice you to head out on your own and hear that wonderful level sound effect.

However...

When you make it a constant thing.... When you make it an absolute point that you head out alone into a dungeon day after day after day no matter what sort of RP happens to go on, no matter how many people happen to be on the server, then you're seriously bordering on being a powergamer/looter.

Let me put it this way, when a DM logs on and sees you mucking around in a dungeon one day alone, then the following several days sees you doing the same exact thing? You're not soloing.

If you sit at an inn where people are at, make a few comments, then decide that should be enough to make people think you've RPed and it's time to head out to solo in a dungeon? You're not soloing.

When the main thing you try to do every single day is to find a dungeon that no one else happens to be at? You are not soloing.

To address your other point, scramasax, there is also nothing wrong with not liking the way a particular player plays his/her character. We all have our opinions as to what roleplaying should really be. I will freely admit there are certain types of players I avoid playing with because they don't reach my standards for roleplaying. Elitist of me? Yes, but if I'm not enjoying the roleplay from a player then I'm heading the other way, buddy. And I would much rather turn the other cheek then bring up a big stink over what my opinion happens to be over the way someone plays.

And RPing your own personality is fine as well. Just have to make sure you don't cross that IC/OOC line where you think that if another person's character hates your character then he must hate you OOCly as well. Some people have trouble separating themselves from that and get horribly upset or disturbed when someone happens to say a Bad Thing to their characters. Long as you don't cross that IC/OOC line in your head then RPing your own personal traits into a character is doable.

[soulfien]

well said, Shadow, as usual

my pc's will solo if their friends aren't on. They usually don't go out with people they don't like and more than one person on this server will attest to that! I'll usually try and come up with a good excuse if I have to turn someone down because they're on bad terms with my PC, but a couple times I've been found lounging at a table while replying "I'm just too busy to go out hunting right now."

Anyway, I'll solo at times simply because it beats sitting in town for hours on end waiting for someone or I'll simply want to go to another city like High Horn which lies so far from everything that it looks like I'm soloing when I'm simply traveling.

But I'll admit there are times I solos simply because I know certain areas provide the best xp alone (not loot- I always get better loot when I party). I try to keep those times rare though.

[davrosmandrake]

First off lets get one thing straight, I would always rather be in a party than soloing, however somethimes I do tend up to be running around a lot on my own.

This is because like scramasax I do sometimes login just for 20 mins to have a quick run around and kill stuff. Personaly it always makes me feel guilty and I think 'Maybe I should have played some Balders Gate on the Playstation' or 'Perhaps I should do the washing up'

However being inbetween jobs at the moment (well for a while *sobs*) I have little to do during the day, well Ok I have tons I SHOULD be doing but I found FRC and thats much more fun. I too get to be on the server when there is not many people on so frequently end up running around on my own.

I only tend to solo with my main character (thats Lyn for them that dont know), keeping the others for when there are lowers on the server that I can party up with. Often Lyn may be talking to people as they prepare to go someplace then suddenly have to shoot off to be replaced by a slimey wahkeen (sp) priest or a stoopid 'arf-Oman. Why...well for Lyn to party with lows would be frowned upon..but then I worry that this sudden character switch may be frowned upon to as it scratches on the realm of metagamming.

Whats my point...well there is none realy, I just wanted to justifie why I solo a lot so that people would not think I was powergrabbing munchkin...I am not...I am worse than that, I am an addict.

Hello my name is DavrosMandrake and I am an FRC'ahollic

[scramasax]

Just a note of related appreciation.

I logged on from Shallybrook, making my way to Redmist from that route instead. Met the nasties along the way. All of a sudden, the last near-death nasty flees in an odd direction. I give pursuit to the nasty, and lo and behold, it gets slain by another PC that happened to be near. PCs were introduced for the first time, and got along quite well. Had great fun.

If that was DM creativity to get lone PCs to meet up, I strongly applaud it! Smackdownless encouragement of party play

[feklahr]

In my eyes:

On servers I have played before I will solo if:

A. I feel like I just need to go kick some rear at that moment. (I am an office jobber, too. Trust me, some days you just want to take your guy and bash in skulls).

B. None of my friends are around.

C. No one is around.

D. I am in terrible need of gold (like to stay at an inn or get potions of cure light wounds...you know, like broke).

I don't really see a problem with it, and I am not the type to hang around in the village square until someone interesting shows up to RP with. I am a task oriented roleplayer, and I have met most of the people that I communicate well with on this server by being task oriented.

Different types of players will gravitate towards each other according to their preferences over time. It is in our variety that we truly spice up the server.

The only real problem soloers I have ever known are the "farmers" that just go around and bogart everything. That kind of sucks.

[soulfien]

*shrugs* It simply boils down to the simple following truths:

Soloing isn't farming.

Farming can be done in groups.

Soloing can be done In Character.

Just because you don't have a party with you doesn't mean you're farming. Sometimes it doesn't take more than one person to clear out a challenging crypt.

Just becuase you're in a party doesn't mean you're not farming, People team up with people just so they can go bash in some skulls and loot big. Has nothing to do with any caracter development.

[Grozer]

soulfien said:

Sometimes it doesn't take more than one person to clear out a challenging crypt.

If it only takes one person and that person doesnt need help, then it is not "challenging".

[soulfien]

It is if there's only one person doing it

The Redmist crypts can be cleared by my lone wizard, but it takes a lot of smart tactics.

For the most part, anything that my wizard can't do alone takes a couple high lvl tanks to party with.

[Munroe]

Soulfien, when was the last time you played? You talk a lot about what your character can do but I never see you on.

[soulfien]

hmm thought everyone knew.

I smoke checked my computer. I've been trying to repair it with the small amount of money I have left of my paycheck.

[DM Grizwald]

Thats what that internet porn does to ya!

[maladryne]

Thus far, I've spent most of my time on this server soloing. That's been for a few reasons:

1) My interpretation of the Ranger class is that they tend to prefer operating solo or in groups of rangers. More in the way of a scout, preferring to team up with the creatures in the area than soemone who goes clanking through the forest in full plate. So, when I play a ranger, I tend to skew solo.

2) I'd prefer to head out solo over hanging out in town for an indeterminate period of time in hopes that someone will show up and be willing to group.

3) Trouble finding groups in my level band. Twice I've grouped with folks, then been politely disinvited for being too high or too low (I'm Ranger3/Sorceror1). Understandable, as I neither wish to slow down anyone's progress nor be a leech, but it's still disheartening to finally find a group and then wind up solo anyway.

[Booze Hound]

maladryne said:

Thus far, I've spent most of my time on this server soloing. That's been for a few reasons:

1) My interpretation of the Ranger class is that they tend to prefer operating solo or in groups of rangers. More in the way of a scout, preferring to team up with the creatures in the area than soemone who goes clanking through the forest in full plate. So, when I play a ranger, I tend to skew solo.

2) I'd prefer to head out solo over hanging out in town for an indeterminate period of time in hopes that someone will show up and be willing to group.

3) Trouble finding groups in my level band. Twice I've grouped with folks, then been politely disinvited for being too high or too low (I'm Ranger3/Sorceror1). Understandable, as I neither wish to slow down anyone's progress nor be a leech, but it's still disheartening to finally find a group and then wind up solo anyway.

1.) I hear ya, but you can always look at it from a perspective that Vind looks at it...by going with those loud clanky oafs, your character can perhaps teach them a thing or two about not making so much noise and disturbing his nice forest.

2.) the purpose of "hanging out in town" isnt just to look for someone to group with. it's to Role Play. If someone comes in, try buying them a beer and talking about why they are in Cormyr, or where they are from, etc.

3.) with all the info like CR and such turned off, being asked to leave a party because you are too low/high is bad form. Everyone is equal out here (in my opinion at least) even through tells, aksing what level you are or asking someone else what level they are, and then deciding whether or not you should party together is metagaming. Those CRs are turned off for a reason. Find an IC way to travel with someone tat is a different level than you, and Roleplay the situation where you or the other person is a weaker combatant. That's the point of FRC.


I am not criticizing your post in any way, dont take it that way. I too play a ranger here, and have for over 2 years played that same character. It is tempting to just wander the woods solo all day long because it is the way a ranger should act or whatever.

The things I mentioned above are just hopefully helpful tips on ways to make your experience better as a ranger of Cormyr.

Enjoy! ;D

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Slow down or be a leech, doesn't matter cause what people should be focusing on as their primary progression should be RP and levels on the side. I often travel with people 7 levels different from me and I don't EVER think of them as a burden. And I often enjoy the break of being the one taking a beating when travelling with someone of higher level than myself.

[sangrow]

logandoug said:

3.) with all the info like CR and such turned off, being asked to leave a party because you are too low/high is bad form. Everyone is equal out here (in my opinion at least) even through tells, aksing what level you are or asking someone else what level they are, and then deciding whether or not you should party together is metagaming. Those CRs are turned off for a reason. Find an IC way to travel with someone tat is a different level than you, and Roleplay the situation where you or the other person is a weaker combatant. That's the point of FRC.

First off I agree that all PLAYERS in my view are equal. But our characters are most certainly not, if we were we have the same level, gear, money and alignment. The whole point of Level game is to make differences among the creatures in it. Its a ladder where the stakes constantly are risen and you as player has adapt or die.

I do play to RP but I also play to be challenged in the game. When I do set out in a group I want that group to work together to survive not to be spoonfed by a higher level character that has the capacity to solo the mission him/herself or a high level character that hangs back to make sure everyone is ok.

I want my character to play a useful part of the group and share the burden of hardship. If you set out on an adventure and you breeze through it I hardly say it was an adventure but more of an vacation.

So far this havent really been a problem for me since higher level character have had the good taste to decline to join up or to make "excuses" not to party.

Sure its hard to tell from just looking at the character at the screen if its a high level character or not...but if they were live people you would be able to make a educated guess who is high level and who is not by simple looking at the gear they are using. In the same manner as you can tell who has money and who doesnt in real life. Sure its not 100% but you be right more times than you be wrong.

Im all for RP and I have been playing pen and paper games for over 20 years THOUGH it is a game and the main goal in my opinion is to have FUN. And if metagaming is a way to facilitate that Im for one all for it. To get a well powerwise balanced group together and do an adventure where group tactics come into play is great fun both RPwise and Gamewise.

I respect people who like to sit by a campfire and RP for two hours straight. If they enjoy it its great and they should do it because they think thats fun. I play to adventure and I like to explore and be challenged by the builds the DMs of this server has created. I like to do this in a group with other people and I like to feel like their characters are people and not players. But my main goal is to have fun and if others have fun too then thats great.

But I dont agree to all this "its the RP thing to do" statements because that is totally subjective. What is RP for me isnt necessarly that for the next guy. Why is it that one guys RP is more correct than another guys? Not everybody is a Robert De Niro but we all agree to play characters and we are expected to do that to our best ability.

ROLEPLAYING isnt the goal FUN is...but ROLEPLAYING is a great tool to get there. Thats my opinion.

[Booze Hound]

well noticing that you said your guy was level 4, there really shouldnt be anyone telling you that you are too high, and you should be able to party with people up to level 10 and go places that are a challenge to the both of you pretty easily. 5 levels up and down gives you a pretty wide range of people to play with.

[heimdall]

Actually roleplaying IS the goal.

You should be having your 'fun' doing just that.

Metagaming based off level only is not only rude, it is extremely poor roleplaying. If you can't be creative enough to come up with an IC reason not to go on a trek, or not to go along with a certain person....well, go back to your action servers where all the OOC talk is acceptable and roleplaying is optional. Roleplaying isn't optional here. (not directed towards anyone who has posted in this thread, just a general rant)

I was with a party of three. Our avg. level was probably 16.

We were planning a trek into an area that we knew would be an insane challenge for the three of us. Just before disembarking from Suzail, we happened upon a bard. OOC we knew he was level 4. He was a good roleplayer and he expressed an interest in coming along. The level 4 bard not only provided excellent and entertaining roleplay, between jokes, stories and improptu songs....there was a point on the 'adventure' where the level 4 managed to save the entire party. (kudo's to you Skunkeen whereever you are now)

Don't be so quick to judge what characters may or may not be capable of based off what you think you know OOC.

Metagaming sucks. Don't do it.

As far as soloing goes, it's been said time and again that soloing is not frowned upon. So long as you are roleplaying and staying in character you are ok.

Here is what is not ok. Deliberately avoiding people so you can solo is not ok. Deliberately ignoring roleplay going on around you so you can go solo is not ok. Running around from spawn to spawn, loot drop to loot drop on a solo grind and calling that roleplay is not ok.

Hmm....any more questions?

[Driderman]

I'm going to assume this is your personal opinion and not one necessarily supported by FRC staff as whole. Not that there's anything wrong with, I agree with the spirit of what you say Heimdall, but arguing whether Roleplay or Fun is the goal is pretty much a moot point as long as everyone agrees you have to do the one to get to the other

As for metagaming, I'd say no-one can claim not to metagame just a bit. As soon as you see a character you make assumptions based on what you, as the player, observe. For example, a fairly low level character of mine got in a bad spot with a few higher level pc's. Judging from looks my character wouldn't be the sort you go mess with, yet these folks didn't blink an eye messing with him in a big way. For the record, it was good, fun rp and I hold no grudges but I doubt they would have been as bold had they known from their years of experience on the server that this fellow had been around as long as them, or longer, and could've smashed them to small, gooey bits.
There's always a bit of metagaming going on, unless you're some kind of zen-guru who knows how to clear your mind in some kind of meditative trance and STILL be able to play the game
In any case, a bit of metagaming can be a good thing in my opinion, as long as it is metagaming that furthers the element of roleplaying.
For example, warning low-level characters IC of going to a place because you OOC'ly know they'll get their asses handed to them,
or holding back comments that might be in character, but would lower the element of rp for whatever reasons.

As for soloing, I do it plenty. Not so much now, since I've gotten myself a computer capable of party action, but if there's one thing that really blows my sense of realism its random people meeting each other for the first time and then going out into the wilds, entrusting their safety and possibly their lives to complete strangers on a moments notice...
"Greetings, I am >Insert name here<, paladin of >whoever< and why yes, of course I'd like to go ogreslaying with you and your dark and brooding companion all clad in black. What did you say your name was again?"
As long as one keeps soloing IC, no hair off my back. But I think most of us can agree to that, yes?

[moulinous]

Coming from a dedicated pc who is all loner and solo kinda guy extraordinaries, this might sound strange but...find a party. My favorite times on this server was with several groups that i still like alot. When me and Merry and Skunk traveled together, now me and Helg with Taran and Quen thrown in. There was Dornak back in the day. Whenever me, Kam, and Vind have gone out together. The other day me and three people went out...two of them were of lower level then us and did not even receive xp i think...but they still came. Not for any reason other than to have some fun. I did that back in the day with Gial an Shartia and Glew a few times. Its fun and better in a group. Unfortunately, all the people i like to party with either want to kill me, or owe me gold...lol...but it is still fun. I see nothing wrong in acting as a guide to other pcs, i do it alot. Heck, sometimes i sell them a way to a dungeon via a "map" or guiding them there. Soloing is hard, and unless you want to hit a certain level and then try and think of a viable reason he is not just soloing anymore, find a group and grow together. That way, you can have fun sayings like the Bodak Trick, or Dungeons&Dragons, or Boom him not me yah damm firebug!....

[Driderman]

I'll drink to that!
All the fun is in party-action, of course. But I'd rather meet up with someone in the wilds and band together for mutual protection than grouping in town with random strangers for unknown reasons. Of course, sometimes forming groups in town are formed through excellent roleplaying, but I've been playing NWN online too long to find the "... I was looking to train my skills, perhaps you like to come kill kobolds with me" approach much fun anymore.
Not that there's anything wrong with it, people like that seem to get all the parties , but personally I need a bit more encouragement. Luckily, the characters i play right now are a warrior-priest of Tempus and a blood-and-gold crazed barbarian. They don't need much encouragement to go kill things usually ;D

[maladryne]

logandoug said:

1.) I hear ya, but you can always look at it from a perspective that Vind looks at it...by going with those loud clanky oafs, your character can perhaps teach them a thing or two about not making so much noise and disturbing his nice forest.

I can go with that.

logandoug said:

2.) the purpose of "hanging out in town" isnt just to look for someone to group with. it's to Role Play. If someone comes in, try buying them a beer and talking about why they are in Cormyr, or where they are from, etc.

Understood; my point was, if I know I'm going to be playing for 2 to 3 hours, and my first 20 to 30 minutes is spent hanging out in town by myself, I'm going to prefer roleplaying a ranger that is patrolling the road to Redmist than a ranger who is sitting on his bum in a bar. From reading this thread, I'm seeing that me soloing isn't frowned upon, so long as I'm not avoiding RPing opportunities on purpose, so I think that's covered.

logandoug said:

3.) with all the info like CR and such turned off, being asked to leave a party because you are too low/high is bad form. Everyone is equal out here (in my opinion at least) even through tells, aksing what level you are or asking someone else what level they are, and then deciding whether or not you should party together is metagaming. Those CRs are turned off for a reason. Find an IC way to travel with someone tat is a different level than you, and Roleplay the situation where you or the other person is a weaker combatant. That's the point of FRC.

I've never been asked what level I am. I suspect that the individuals involved (towards whom I feel no ill-will) noted the number of hitpoints my character had, and judged my approximate level from that. They then found interesting ways in-game to let me know that I wasn't a good fit for the party. I think of it much like, say, an NFL team having a really good high-school football player want to join the squad. They might be a great person, but they're simply not prepared to play at the level the rest of the team will be playing, and they're quite likely to get hurt. My belief is that a group of seasoned adventurers would realize that the "fresh faced youngster" wanting to join the party might have his heart in the right place, but that heart would likely get ripped out and eaten by the [insert hideous monster here] that they're on their way to kill. So, if someone points in an ICly way that maybe I might be more successful with a less challenging quest, I have no problem with that... so long as I don't get a tell saying "dood, you're like not l33t enough, come back in a level or 12, mmkay?" I'm hoping this server is free of that sort of thing, and so far it's looking good.

logandoug said:

I am not criticizing your post in any way, dont take it that way. I too play a ranger here, and have for over 2 years played that same character. It is tempting to just wander the woods solo all day long because it is the way a ranger should act or whatever.

The things I mentioned above are just hopefully helpful tips on ways to make your experience better as a ranger of Cormyr.

Enjoy! ;D

I believe I took your post in the spirit in which is was offered, and appreciate the insights. Hope to see you & some of this thead's other helpful posters around in-game sometime.