|
Post by Sago Jerassen on Jan 27, 2018 21:41:19 GMT -5
Perma killing is way harsh IMO. Not something anyone wants to have forced on them. But punishment should be more then a quest of execution and continue on. So maybe we look at what happens during this. Character is placed in custody and is jailed. Their belongings taken, gold as well. When their time is up, these things returned. But as a wanted Outlaw, which the players have chosen to be and has worked hard to become, Their belongings are not given back nor their gold. If the outlaw is a repeat offender, Levels removed. This would give a bigger reason to either change their ways, or become real good at staying hidden rather then the "no fear actions" that seem to take place. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by zerohin on Jan 28, 2018 0:57:14 GMT -5
While it may be possible for a character to testify at their own trial, they can only testify about what they heard from others, or what happened in hours leading up to their murder, because nobody can be a witness to their own murder. Death-Amnesia means that nobody recalls 30 minutes before their death in PVP. Because the Forgotten Realms is a magical world, it is certainly possible for someone to be alive after their murder. That does not mean that their murder was only attempted. I would not support perma-death as an option. The only times we force a character to retire without being the player being banned is when the player has elected to roleplay pregnancy or the character was created and roleplayed as a child character. Even characters that were built in violation of the character creation rules can usually be restarted with corrected builds. (Underlined) This isn't entirely true. There have been numerous DM plots that state upon choosing to be a part of this event, there is a chance of permadeath or required retirement. I believe A DM is currently holding such an event right now: frc.proboards.com/thread/27893/looking-villainsCharacter's actions are ultimately up to the player and if the player chooses to RP a character in such great opposition of the law of the land that they continue to be executed then maybe retirement is forced after a certain number of executions. It's not a surprise to the player, they've made a conscious choice (just like accepting to play in a DM plot) to have their PC continually violate the law over and over in such extremes that they've been executed multiple times. I don't at all find this unreasonable, no more so than choosing to enter a plot of a DM that expects the same thing. ADDED: Many great assassins of the server have never had multiple executions and I think it's possible to still be a murderer and not be executed if you do it well enough. I think LadyFrost has the right idea here mostly. While I don't enjoy the idea of any character being forcibly permadead, it's a question of what is reasonable and fun. I would maybe suggest that some coaching be involved before any sort of permadeath thing gets implemented. Ex. PC goes on a killing spree. PC gets caught, tried, and executed. PC is resurrected. PC goes on a killing spree. Rinse repeat. PC is made into an Outlaw. PC continues to kill...... At this point I think is where it would be a good idea for DM's to start coaching. Here's a list of ways you can continue to play your PC and get outlaw status removed, continue to be an assassin, etc... Here's a list of things that will earn you permadeath should you choose to continue down this route. To me this puts the burden of choice in the players hands. It also opens up a dialogue with the DM staff and possibly other players (I think that may be the aim here to begin with) so that the player may find ways to continue having fun with what they enjoy, while helping others to have fun as well. I often have to remind myself that what is fun for me, is not always fun for others. So I simply try to find ways to have fun with those players in different ways.
|
|
|
Post by StabbingNirvana on Jan 28, 2018 1:25:56 GMT -5
I was going to post something eerily similar to your post, Grillo. Not every execution results in turning into an outlaw. It takes a load of criminal activity and a long period of time and active effort to get to that point. And even then, all that criminal activity needs to get traced back to you. While permakilling is a bit extreme, letting the outlaw remain in an otherwise untouched status once they put on a hood/helmet and start calling themselves Roger while not requiring them to roll to maintain a disguise is a major loophole that's open. I think right now there's 2 active outlaw characters and I see one of them regularly standing about in town going about business like nothing happened so the outlawing effectively failed to work. There should be a more tangible effect on the characters from draining their wealth to confiscation of items (though obviously, not treasured items that have particular importance) along with level drain or permanent ability score hit assuming that's possible. Maybe even a cursed item for a certain amount of time. The possibilities are endless. I just know that from experience with dealing with outlaw characters, that leaving them in their same state doesn't seem to deter the behavior that got them that status in the first place. On that remark, at least your character hasn't been in prison for a year and several months, Abii! Poor Slate. Made into a zombie by Mystogan and now he's suffering a sentence of life in prison. And a life of undeath lasts forever ....
|
|
|
Post by Syd's Blue Sky on Jan 28, 2018 1:58:51 GMT -5
I was very much a proponent of the Outlaw status when it was first being tossed around, but my support was undergirded by increased server support of Outlaws. I don't know that any such support exists. At this point, it's just another toothless provision that makes people wear hoods and jump through hoops. It seems nothing substantive, and nothing adding to the overall story of FRC.
As I said years ago (back when this was a DM account), I am very much for Outlaw Status if it comes with increased server support for Outlaws.
|
|
|
Post by sergeil on Jan 30, 2018 15:54:27 GMT -5
PvP has a beginning, but the PvP is never finished.
As soon, as revenge becomes the primary goal of the victim, forget about RP, rules, etc.
PvP cause hatred and hatred never be abstract. It can not be closed inside character.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 30, 2018 17:38:45 GMT -5
PvP has a beginning, but the PvP is never finished. As soon, as revenge becomes the primary goal of the victim, forget about RP, rules, etc. PvP cause hatred and hatred never be abstract. It can not be closed inside character. false.
|
|
|
Post by Animayhem on Jan 30, 2018 18:29:32 GMT -5
I think having NPC bounty hunters would be a nice twist which would actually make the outlaw look over their shoulder. The npc's would be alerted as soon as the player signs on with that character. It gives support to the bounties posted. How many and frequency could be set on some sort of random timer like ness script spawns.
|
|
|
Post by sergeil on Jan 30, 2018 23:39:40 GMT -5
I think having NPC bounty hunters would be a nice twist which would actually make the outlaw look over their shoulder As for me, It is good way. According to game play, it will be like ordinaty hunt, but hunter and prey will be changed their places. Outlaw have to be permanently busy to avoid his fate. Why not?
|
|
|
Post by StabbingNirvana on Jan 31, 2018 0:05:20 GMT -5
There is absolutely no way a DM will set up an effective bounty hunter against a PC player. I know prior that a Triad member had NPC's attack him on a bounty placed by a enemy player/guild but he was able to take the attackers down. DM's have way too many IC and OOC tools at their disposal that'll make a PC cry foul if an NPC bounty hunter successfully beat them.
|
|
|
Post by Animayhem on Jan 31, 2018 0:22:09 GMT -5
There is absolutely no way a DM will set up an effective bounty hunter against a PC player. I know prior that a Triad member had NPC's attack him on a bounty placed by a enemy player/guild but he was able to take the attackers down. DM's have way too many IC and OOC tools at their disposal that'll make a PC cry foul if an NPC bounty hunter successfully beat them. Well " Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." Is it fair when people unprepared for attack get attacked and killed by an uber power. The outlaw would have to dress and cast to keep on their toes. I mean a bounty is posted so naturally there would be hunters. I would think less drama form npc's than pc's.
|
|
|
Post by StabbingNirvana on Jan 31, 2018 0:53:12 GMT -5
A super powered PC killing other much weaker PC's is fairer than having a DM snap their fingers and having an ultimate bounty hunter NPC at their disposal. And even if the DM didn't make an ultimate bounty hunter NPC to attack the outlaw, they still have access to the outlaw's ability scores, items, stats, location and everything else about them which would raise question of the legitimacy of the DM vs PC incident.
|
|
|
Post by sergeil on Jan 31, 2018 0:59:14 GMT -5
PC player .... was able to take the attackers down. DM's have way ... I do not speak about punishment. I speak about gameplay. Villains have to be able to win and grow. Their NPC enemies have to be fit to their level. Outlaws have to earn money and experience, create teams to protect their lives together. It is like standard gameplay, but in some different environment. The appearance of the guards or hunters bounty NPC should be triggered spontaneously only thanks to their presence, like they are centers of cave. Players or DM should not be involved in this process. It is pure outlaws gameplay. Outlaws have to be permanently busy to survive. I think, in this case, they will not have time for PvP or disturbing of other players.
|
|
|
Post by mandene on Jan 31, 2018 8:57:58 GMT -5
PC player .... was able to take the attackers down. DM's have way ... I do not speak about punishment. I speak about gameplay. Villains have to be able to win and grow. Their NPC enemies have to be fit to their level. Outlaws have to earn money and experience, create teams to protect their lives together. It is like standard gameplay, but in some different environment. The appearance of the guards or hunters bounty NPC should be triggered spontaneously only thanks to their presence, like they are centers of cave. Players or DM should not be involved in this process. It is pure outlaws gameplay. Outlaws have to be permanently busy to survive. I think, in this case, they will not have time for PvP or disturbing of other players. The game play is happening in Cormyr, which is a society that's supposed to be similar to medieval Europe's ideals of chivalry and knighthood. The country's alignment is Lawful Good, with deviations towards Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good. It's a fantasy setting in a goodly country, where even though evil things are happening, the good is supposed to win in the end, although good is supposed to have quite a bit of a challenge on the way. It would have been very simple for the DMs dissallow playing the "unsupported" and what you called "potentially disruptive" alignments. In the same line, it wouldn't be that difficult to switch the setting on the server and turn off "PvP", if PvP was that very disturbing. But the team has decided to not go that way. PvP and "potentially disruptive" alignments are not allowed by omission, or because there isn't another way - they are allowed by conscious and thought-of decision. The "other" alignments are allowed here because they are other alignments. Even though, in the end, the server and setting keeps its status-quo, the different alignments and guilds are pitted against each other, so that the characters on the side of "good and proper" have something else to win over and plot against than NPCs and DM-quests. Since the setting keeps its status-quo, the good-aligned know they can't fully get rid of the evil, and the evil know that they can't really win (but they still keep trying, and some are really famous for being good at it). We all sign up for that by choosing the alignments, classes, and races that we play. And the same goes for PvP. So as you see, the idea behind allowing those other alignments is to be disturbing to other players and so that it is supposed to lead towards PvP. Although hopefully in the "right way", so that it's fun for both sides. And PvP not specifically meaning attacking and killing the other PC, but not necessarily discouraged either (rather understood here as "conflict"). This is what gives interest and dynamic to the server, other than sitting about and waiting for DM-generated assailants. At least in my understanding, this is the spirit behind allowing PvP and opposite alignments and guilds. It is up to us as a community to live up to this expectation in a mature way, to understand why it's there, make it fun instead of disruptive, and up to the DMs to help us get there. To remove the outlawed or even just evil or chaotic characters from the rest of the server community and creating their own sandbox for them, would not only an unnecessarily complex endeavor (which could be just fixed by ruling against PvP or disallowing certain alignments) but also, most importantly, would be contradictory to the spirit of the server.
|
|
Abii
~
Banned
Posts: 273
|
Post by Abii on Jan 31, 2018 9:49:13 GMT -5
So many ideas for outlaws, but none of you are in this skin. Just few things from my own prespective, First of all its our own bed, which sometimes have spikes like the ones where Fakir sit, haha. Beeing one may be hard to handle due to a lot of things, for example not aviable for events, ofcourse you may go there and try to participe, which probably will end at revealing disguise or worse *grins*
Tho some ideas are quite funny!
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Jan 31, 2018 10:55:26 GMT -5
I've played a character that was hunted for a time. It actually was a lot of fun, to me. I did also have a DM create at least one bounty hunter encounter to deal with, and it would have been a lot of fun had they made more. It's true a DM could, if they wanted, create truly overbearing encounters that would not be fun at all. But they also have a lot of tools at their disposal to make things fun, and the fact they're dropping a bounty hunter on you instead of a giant encounter or something doesn't magically make those principles not apply anymore. It could even give you a source of supplies if the bounty hunter's inventory just happened to be stocked with the stuff they'd need to go tracking dangerous criminals in the wilderness, such as buff potions, healing supplies, etc. that they IC'ly intended to use to find, defeat, and capture you. Who knew you'd be short on them and need them for not setting foot into town ...
|
|
|
Post by sergeil on Jan 31, 2018 11:05:25 GMT -5
So many ideas for outlaws Abii, Sorry for stuppid question, but If be autlaw is not so funny for you, why do you not prepare some actions to cancel it? You can be evil chaotic (who care?), but why outlaw?
|
|
Abii
~
Banned
Posts: 273
|
Post by Abii on Jan 31, 2018 11:54:53 GMT -5
Why ? Beeing outlaw is great for me, i just wanted to let others know that its not soo sweet, and that there are some bad things along with this status
|
|
|
Post by sergeil on Jan 31, 2018 12:07:39 GMT -5
I've played a character that was hunted for a time. Also, as I understand, it is not necessary to became outlaw to have fun it this way.
|
|
|
Post by Aoi on Jan 31, 2018 13:11:19 GMT -5
Some bad things seem to be not enough. I mean it made the RP of several players hard up to impossible to keep playing the character as it was. I myself take consequences but I'm still not satisfied. If the consequences for outlaws were really that bad,they wouldn't happily keep killing as if their character would be incapable to learn or change their way.
I myself sent requests and get no replies while to the outlaws and evil guys is quickly answered. That somehow makes me feel like they are beeing favoured and the good guys have the disadvantages. Don't cooment this without sense or make fun of it. It's really frustrating if you feel that way.
I would wish more help and coaching for both sides as it has consequences for good and evil equally.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 31, 2018 14:01:41 GMT -5
So many ideas for outlaws, but none of you are in this skin. Just few things from my own prespective, First of all its our own bed, which sometimes have spikes like the ones where Fakir sit, haha. Beeing one may be hard to handle due to a lot of things, for example not aviable for events, ofcourse you may go there and try to participe, which probably will end at revealing disguise or worse *grins* Tho some ideas are quite funny! lol i was in your shoes far before outlaw staus was a thing on Aris.
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Jan 31, 2018 18:19:24 GMT -5
So many ideas for outlaws, but none of you are in this skin. Just few things from my own prespective, First of all its our own bed, which sometimes have spikes like the ones where Fakir sit, haha. Beeing one may be hard to handle due to a lot of things, for example not aviable for events, ofcourse you may go there and try to participe, which probably will end at revealing disguise or worse *grins* Tho some ideas are quite funny! lol i was in your shoes far before outlaw staus was a thing on Aris. Outlaw status was implemented for Aris unofficially because he kept going until there was no plausible way for the setting not to outlaw him. All the DM team did to make it an official thing was to basically say, "Guys, if your character does what Aris did, the setting will respond to your character like it did to Aris." Which is something to be proud of, you brought change to the server through your role play.
|
|
|
Post by FORSETIS on Jan 31, 2018 21:53:05 GMT -5
lol i was in your shoes far before outlaw staus was a thing on Aris. Outlaw status was implemented for Aris unofficially because he kept going until there was no plausible way for the setting not to outlaw him. All the DM team did to make it an official thing was to basically say, "Guys, if your character does what Aris did, the setting will respond to your character like it did to Aris." Which is something to be proud of, you brought change to the server through your role play. You brought change to the server with your power leveling and mass PvP *
|
|
|
Post by zerohin on Jan 31, 2018 22:13:49 GMT -5
Outlaw status was implemented for Aris unofficially because he kept going until there was no plausible way for the setting not to outlaw him. All the DM team did to make it an official thing was to basically say, "Guys, if your character does what Aris did, the setting will respond to your character like it did to Aris." Which is something to be proud of, you brought change to the server through your role play. You brought change to the server with your power leveling and mass PvP * Tried to like this more times. It didn't work....
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Feb 1, 2018 0:24:00 GMT -5
Outlaw status was implemented for Aris unofficially because he kept going until there was no plausible way for the setting not to outlaw him. All the DM team did to make it an official thing was to basically say, "Guys, if your character does what Aris did, the setting will respond to your character like it did to Aris." Which is something to be proud of, you brought change to the server through your role play. You brought change to the server with your power leveling and mass PvP * I power lvled on Aris? He never made it past 21 lol
|
|
|
Post by sergeil on Feb 1, 2018 0:32:59 GMT -5
Why ? Beeing outlaw is great for me, i just wanted to let others know that its not soo sweet, and that there are some bad things along with this status I understand the desire of the character to become a great villain and steal the famous artifact in the Temple or a lot of money, or to usurp power and become the Emperor. But just to be out of the law... I do not see any benefits and, accordingly, advantage. Also, as i understand, outlaw status bring, as minimum, some difficulties and disadvantages. Maybe, I don't understand something in this life. Can you explain where is fun?
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Feb 1, 2018 7:15:29 GMT -5
Outlaw status was implemented for Aris unofficially because he kept going until there was no plausible way for the setting not to outlaw him. All the DM team did to make it an official thing was to basically say, "Guys, if your character does what Aris did, the setting will respond to your character like it did to Aris." Which is something to be proud of, you brought change to the server through your role play. You brought change to the server with your power leveling and mass PvP * I was there for his mass PVP. Not only was it as motivated as heck with IC reason, but if my own character wasn’t completely devoid of a morally neutral bone in her body, to say nothing of evil, she’d have been helping him. He also role played throughout it and offered people two different “outs” to avoid getting attacked.
|
|
|
Post by FORSETIS on Feb 1, 2018 9:04:27 GMT -5
Idk why you guys are talking about Aris. I wasn’t.
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Feb 1, 2018 9:24:27 GMT -5
Idk why you guys are talking about Aris. I wasn’t. LOL Point taken.
|
|
|
Post by lucid on Feb 1, 2018 16:23:58 GMT -5
Playing a doomed villain and making things interesting for the otherwise benchwarming Team Good is a community service and should be treated as such.
If the problem is that you can't reward them after you permakill them, reward them in the next life. Unlock special concept characters, odd races, perhaps begin with heirlooms, who knows. The more badass, the more impact, and the more acclaim for the character, the greater the reward. "Better to burn out than fade away" type rampage doesn't apply, you have to rack up Outlaw points over time to be truly feared.
|
|
|
Post by bloodalchemist on Feb 1, 2018 17:05:33 GMT -5
Playing a doomed villain and making things interesting for the otherwise benchwarming Team Good is a community service and should be treated as such. If the problem is that you can't reward them after you permakill them, reward them in the next life. Unlock special concept characters, odd races, perhaps begin with heirlooms, who knows. The more badass, the more impact, and the more acclaim for the character, the greater the reward. "Better to burn out than fade away" type rampage doesn't apply, you have to rack up Outlaw points over time to be truly feared. I don't disagree with your main point, giving incentives to those willing to permanently retire character (and never bringing them back, period) However I do disagree with the whole, ramping up outlaws being feared. Well roleplayed villains who are difficult to counter are feared. CE mass pvp isn't feared, its just flavor of the month respawn annoyance that a lot of people get tired of. Hence requesting a system in place to help re-establish some suspension of disbelief in the setting and roleplay. It's not a perfect system but the server is far better off with it than without. The executions that dm's put time into, giving characters their big out after so much time and energy goes to smoothing things out after each rampage should be enough. I don't see why any further support is needed for characters that have lived out a reasonable (sometimes highly unreasonable) arcs.
|
|