DM Q&A: Defense Of Others From Attack In Town

[Southpaw]

I have recently seen it said by a number of PC's that will remain unspecified that if a PC who is not a member of official law enforcement kills a person who is in the act of trying to murder an innocent person, then the one who killed the would-be murderer in the act has broken Cormyrean law.  I do not question the right for a player to role play their character as saying things that are not true, should this not be true, either portraying their character as holding an erroneous belief or actively trying to be deceptive.  But for my knowledge as a player, is it true that it is illegal in Cormyr to kill a would-be murderer in the act of trying to murder someone other than yourself?

As a second question, if a person has just murdered someone in front of you, and you decide to kill the murderer immediately, perhaps even arguably being in fear of your own life or concerned for the lives of others around you, knowing the general sentiment many murderers have at the idea of leaving witnesses, what would Cormyrean law have to say about that?

These two questions pertain to attacks that happen in a town, under the watchful eye of guards who probably should be responding to open attacks themselves, and thus in a context where putting the murderer down, if NPC response were adequately represented, would constitute "assisting the guards in dealing with the murderer" and not "taking things into your own hands."

[DM Hawk]

Hi Southpaw,

Where lethal force is being used in an attack in progress, one may also use lethal force to defend oneself or someone else within Cormyr. That said, using lethal force to aid the aggressor in such a situation makes one the accomplice, not the defender.

For the second question, it sounds like someone is trying to get a read on Holance's pending case I'll leave it to Sir Callen who said: Avenging is not defending. Meting out justice is the province of the authorities under the law.

The law of course discourages vigilantism. Therefore the burden of proof would be on the individual who becomes the aggressor against the killer that the act of striking first was truly an act of defense.

This is especially true in town, where there are guards and other standing forces present. Keep in mind that NPC's rendered in game are representative of a population, not actual population in its entirety. They are there to provide the atmosphere of a larger population that is not practical to render in game. If you are in a populated area like a town or city, one should presume NPC's are present, even if the guard with a funny hat just rounded the corner.

As far as adequate representation of NPC response...

Keep in mind that FRC is a roleplay server and logging in game means you are immersing into the setting through your character. Whether or not a DM is on the scene the moment a player elects to initiate a hostile situation, it is the responsibility of all players involved to play their characters according to the setting.

If you are involved in PVP in town, once the dust settles, it's reasonable to presume you have been collected by the guards and brought to jail until an authority arrives on the scene to sort things out. It is not reasonable behavior after a PVP in town go on about your business. Any character who leaves the scene risks becoming a wanted fugitive until they are brought in and the matter is sorted out.

And wanted fugitives don't hang out in towns and buy things unless they are disguised.

[Razgriz]

Sent you a PM, Hawk.

[Southpaw]

Thank you, DM Hawk, for your thorough response.

Yes, I was trying to gain a read on Holance's situation so far as what the IC law is vs. what it is not in a general, universal way. I was not looking for specific details pertaining to that case. Also, the characters I play have varying levels of awareness of what the law is, and the character through which I saw the comments in question is not well versed in Cormyrean law, and will continue to act as though IC'ly fuzzy on the matter. It's just that I was previously in a position of kind of scratching my head as a player wondering just how crazy I was to think what my character was being told didn't seem to make sense.

Again, thank you very much for your answer.

[DM Hawk]

So...you're standing in town one day and one person slays another. There's a killer standing over a corpse with fresh blood on his hands. The situation is dangerous and more bloodshed could start again at any moment.

What is a law abiding Cormyrian to do?

Well, I'm glad you asked

Off the top of my head there are a few options to consider when your character is facing this danger but not wanting to be entangled with the law oneself.


Make Ready to Defend Yourself - Weapons out, buffs up, ready to stand your ground. If the killer attacks you, you are ready to legally defend yourself with lethal force.


Make Ready to Defend Another - If you fear for the safety of others nearby, one may interpose oneself between the killer and those one wishes to protect. With others behind your protection, make ready to stand your ground should the killer attack. You're in a better spot to protect others and defend yourself while not becoming the aggressor.


Challenge the Killer to a Duel - Challenging the killer to a duel is a way to take initiative, stand a chance of getting the killer out of town to remove the threat peacefully, and you stand a chance of slaying the murderer without becoming a murderer yourself. Lethal and non-lethal Duels are legal in Cormyr on FRC provided they meet certain criteria.
1. Both parties must agree to duel
2. The rules of the duel must be agreed by both parties (is it to first blood, to the death, may magic be used, etc).
3. A duel may not take place inside a town or city. Take it outside the gates folks.
4. One's actions in a duel may become criminal if one cheats, breaks the agreed rules, or injures a bystander.
5. For a duel to stand up to scrutiny of the law it's best to have witnesses who can speak to 1 through 4 above.

Run Away, Run Away - Survival is good.

Witness Testimony - Those in good standing with the law may offer witness testimony of what happened, which can lead to convictions, Bounties, Warrants, or Outlaw status. Depending on the severity of the crimes committed, sometimes a Warrant or Bounty may allow the killer to be brought in dead or alive without becoming a criminal yourself. Those being labeled as an Outlaw by the Crown have about the same rights as an orc raider in the middle of Arabel.

frc.proboards.com/thread/22349/game-authority-granted-bounties-warrants


The above is consideration for players who want their characters to remain in good standing with the Crown and Law of the kingdom. If a player wishes their character to remain in good standing but not honor the law, the best advice is: Don't get caught!

And finally, there are some characters whose moral compass will follow a course for the greater good regardless of the consequences of the law. More power to these, this can make great storytelling, but to the players of these characters I say be prepared for the consequences if your character is caught.

For the law to be just it must be impartial.

I hope the above helps to refresh on options for your character when things suddenly get real in town and blood is shed.

With that said, please remember FRC's Golden Rule - have fun but not at the expense of others. Be good sports and friendly with fellow players, even if your characters are enemies. Especially if your characters are enemies.

Have fun and see you in game

[Southpaw]

I have a follow up question, after this last post.

If I understand correctly, the player of a character who has just committed murder in town should assume a response from the guards and at least run away, if not assume to have been arrested. If this is so, then would it not stand to reason that other players should also assume the guards are responding? If they should, then would it not stand to reason they could also assist the guards that the murderer is supposed to be running from because they are responding? And if a character were to assist the guards that everyone assumes are responding, does this not make the act of killing the murderer an act of assisting the guards in taking down a target they are actively attacking, and not independent vigilantism? Or am I assuming too much about NPC guard response? Or something else I'm not seeing?  I absolutely understand the slippery slope of allowing or encouraging players to assume actions of NPC's unrepresented by the DM team, so I don't intend these questions to be as leading as they might seem, but I think the opportunity to speak to a potential source of cognitive dissonance is there.

Also, what level of openness does the DM Team have to the potential for PC's to act in character to influence the law to change on this point, so as to allow a PC to act immediately to eliminate such a threat to the community? I understand that some facets of the setting are the result of OOC factors while others result from IC actions by players behind the scenes, so I don't know what is OOC'ly determined vs. open to IC change without asking.