DM Q&A: Class: Druid and Metal Equipment

[Fenix]

So, as a druid of Silvanus, I am not allowed to wear metal armors on my PC, something I have known since the beginnings. As it was explained to me, Druids can use metal blades that are forged from metals that they find in the ground, but their armor must be made of natural material (thought it could really be argued that metals -are- natural, but thats not my point here). Now the one thing I always get a mixed, unsure response about is shields.

As a Silvanite Druid, am I allowed to use a metallic shield? Some players have said yes, others saying no, with none actually being too clear and no internet sources to give me a definite answer. Many players simply RP the armors and shields as being made of nonmetallic objects, but thats obviously not to work for everyone. So are shields allowed to be metal? Or must they be wooden/etc as well?

The reason I ask is because, for the druidic class, if you are not of Mielikki, you are VERY limited in gear. You can only purchase from (as far as the ones I know of) Three merchants that sell gear fitting natural requirement. Within those merchants, take for example an Ironwood Tower Shield. If I were to purchase an Adamantine Tower Shield, offering +2AC, I would pay something like 10k I believe. But the Ironwood Tower Shield offering the same benefits as the Admaantine, costs 45k.

A helm offering 2AC, the same as an Adamantine helm that I would pay 7k for, costs 15k+. WIth the lack of ability to craft these items, or really any great alternatives for us to use, I am curious how the DMs feel about it.

It mainly pertains to being able to use a metal shield, but RP it as being a natural item, or if metal shields are alright to use.

As well, are we allowed to RP say Adamantine Fullplate as being made of something else after customizing it?

[Dobian]

I was wondering if dragon scales can be crafted into heavy armor with some bonus properties, depending on the type of scales.

[Fenix]

//title corrected to reflect the post properly

[Munroe]

Dec 28, 2013 0:49:55 GMT -5 Fenix said:

So, as a druid of Silvanus, I am not allowed to wear metal armors on my PC, something I have known since the beginnings. As it was explained to me, Druids can use metal blades that are forged from metals that they find in the ground, but their armor must be made of natural material (thought it could really be argued that metals -are- natural, but thats not my point here). Now the one thing I always get a mixed, unsure response about is shields.

As a Silvanite Druid, am I allowed to use a metallic shield? Some players have said yes, others saying no, with none actually being too clear and no internet sources to give me a definite answer. Many players simply RP the armors and shields as being made of nonmetallic objects, but thats obviously not to work for everyone. So are shields allowed to be metal? Or must they be wooden/etc as well?

The reason I ask is because, for the druidic class, if you are not of Mielikki, you are VERY limited in gear. You can only purchase from (as far as the ones I know of) Three merchants that sell gear fitting natural requirement. Within those merchants, take for example an Ironwood Tower Shield. If I were to purchase an Adamantine Tower Shield, offering +2AC, I would pay something like 10k I believe. But the Ironwood Tower Shield offering the same benefits as the Admaantine, costs 45k.

A helm offering 2AC, the same as an Adamantine helm that I would pay 7k for, costs 15k+. WIth the lack of ability to craft these items, or really any great alternatives for us to use, I am curious how the DMs feel about it.

It mainly pertains to being able to use a metal shield, but RP it as being a natural item, or if metal shields are alright to use.

As well, are we allowed to RP say Adamantine Fullplate as being made of something else after customizing it?

Here are two threads that address similar issues. I believe your questions have been answered in the "DM Q&A: Class: Druid Questions" thread already. Take a look through them first and let me know if your question still remains unanswered.

DM Q&A: Class: Druids and Medium Armor
DM Q&A: Class: Druid Questions

This quote answers at least one of your questions:

Apr 18, 2009 15:54:44 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Druids only suffer a penalty for wearing metal armor, not for using weapons that do not appear on the druid weapons list.

If a druid is proficient with other weapons, the druid may use them.

Druids on FRC do not gain the One Thousand Faces class feature from D&D.

Unless a helm specifies in its name or description the type of material it is made from, you can roleplay it however.

Adamantine helms, for example, should always be treated as containing adamantine. (That means adamantine helms crafted to look like hoods should still be rp'd as having metal in them as well.)

Apr 22, 2009 20:30:31 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Apr 18, 2009 17:19:01 GMT -5 EDM Neo said:

Thanks for the response. Good to know about the weapons, too bad about no thousand faces, but I can live with that.

Does the ruling about helms extend to armors? For example, roleplaying that a breastplate was made of bone or ironwood instead of metal.

No, it doesn't extend to armors. A medium or heavy armor should be considered metal unless it specifies otherwise. If it says it is made of bone or dragon scales, or ironwood or something along those lines, then it isn't metal but medium or heavy armors should be treated as if their default material is metal.

Light armors may be considered non-metal unless they specify otherwise, even studded leather armor, as the studs could be made of something other than metal. Note that in NWN, chainshirts are medium armor, not light armor.

Shields and helmets can be treated as other materials unless they specify that they're metal in their names or descriptions. Most shields would be wooden with metal on them rather than being solid metal anyway, because if they were solid metal, they would be too heavy to lift.

Edit: Yes, D&D has both wooden and steel shields so both are possible and I'm not saying all shields have to be wooden. Just saying you can assume they are unless their name or description says otherwise. If you prefer steel, you can assume that instead, but if you're a druid, you'll want the wooden variety.

I would encourage crafting a shield so it doesn't look explicitly metal (ie shiny and metallic) if it's supposed to be wooden, but that's just a recommendation for an experience of immersion.

Do you have further questions?

[Fenix]

That more or less does answer it for the most part, though a couple questions


1: I saw mention of the One Thousand Faces feat. Being a PNP feat, its obviously not supported, but as a shifter would I be a bit more open to RP some of the attributes of that feat? IE: Changing parts of his body, or shifting some forms at will as he progresses?


2:

Apr 23, 2009 10:18:35 GMT -5 The Retired DM ARIES said:

Any druid who can cast level 6 spells can cast the Spell Ironwood.

www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ironwood.htm

This is according to DnD rules, and can be ruled upon by the staff as to wether or not this is allowable in FRC.

But once the ability to cast level 6 spells is reached, it would really not be very difficult for a druid to craft light or even heavy armor out of regular wood and then cast the spell on it. That or gather enough Ironwood IG, or gather any wood IG, cast the spell and have a smith craft the armor from the wood.

Once the spell is cast, it acts almost exactly like steel.

As an alternative to getting some armor, since as I pointed out there is nothing comparable and inexpensive, I saw this mentioned but it went unanswered. With the right RP and Dm supervision, would it be alright to go about something like this?


3: I have been trying to have my tower shield made of adamantine changed to the claw model for a time now. The idea is that Fenix uses the claw as a weapon, but more in a defensive manner, to turn blades and block hard hits. Would that be acceptable then to have it as adamantine, which denotes what the actual blades of the claw are forged from? The rest of the shield is the leather gauntlet that the claw is attatched to.

[Munroe]

Dec 28, 2013 3:51:25 GMT -5 Fenix said:

That more or less does answer it for the most part, though a couple questions


1: I saw mention of the One Thousand Faces feat. Being a PNP feat, its obviously not supported, but as a shifter would I be a bit more open to RP some of the attributes of that feat? IE: Changing parts of his body, or shifting some forms at will as he progresses?

No. The shifter becomes adept at assuming the forms of other creatures, not mixing and matching parts. The shifter doesn't gain the ability to change only part of his body as a class feature.

Dec 28, 2013 3:51:25 GMT -5 Fenix said:

2:

Apr 23, 2009 10:18:35 GMT -5 The Retired DM ARIES said:

Any druid who can cast level 6 spells can cast the Spell Ironwood.

www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ironwood.htm

This is according to DnD rules, and can be ruled upon by the staff as to wether or not this is allowable in FRC.

But once the ability to cast level 6 spells is reached, it would really not be very difficult for a druid to craft light or even heavy armor out of regular wood and then cast the spell on it. That or gather enough Ironwood IG, or gather any wood IG, cast the spell and have a smith craft the armor from the wood.

Once the spell is cast, it acts almost exactly like steel.

As an alternative to getting some armor, since as I pointed out there is nothing comparable and inexpensive, I saw this mentioned but it went unanswered. With the right RP and Dm supervision, would it be alright to go about something like this?

I don't know precisely what's still in store for the new crafting system, so I'd rather not say one way or the other at this point.

Dec 28, 2013 3:51:25 GMT -5 Fenix said:

3: I have been trying to have my tower shield made of adamantine changed to the claw model for a time now. The idea is that Fenix uses the claw as a weapon, but more in a defensive manner, to turn blades and block hard hits. Would that be acceptable then to have it as adamantine, which denotes what the actual blades of the claw are forged from? The rest of the shield is the leather gauntlet that the claw is attatched to.

It sounds like you're still describing an adamantine shield, and it would have the same limitations.

[Extropy]

There will be more options for non metallic armor & shields.

It won't be next update, but it won't be too far off I believe.

[Fenix]

Dec 28, 2013 10:07:59 GMT -5 Munroe said:

It sounds like you're still describing an adamantine shield, and it would have the same limitations.

As far as NWN mechanics, the item would be considered a shield. The actual item is an Adamantine Tower Shield, but it has the model of a leather bracer with two metal claws protruding out. In reality, a claw like that would be a weapon that druids have proficiency with. It could be used to stab or slash offensively.

Defensively it would be used to catch a sword, axe, spear, etc between the blades of the claws and turn it away or yank it out. You can also use the blunt adge of the claws to block with, taking a lot of brute force onto your arm but being able to roll the attack away.

My question was more just if I could use such an item with the adamantine descriptor. I woukd rp forging the blades out of adamantine, much like druids do with their actual sword, and they would get fitted properly to the bracer for use. A weapon/tactic like this is usually used by more wild druids, some silvanus followers, mielikkians, and prominently malarites

[Fenix]

So to be clear, im allowed to wear things like Full Plate and RP it as being made of Ironbark, for example, so long as the armor does not have a metallic descriptor type? (ie, I can wear Full Plate/Masterwork Full Plate, but not Adamantine Full Plate)


Also on another note I wanted to point out. The shield in the Dhedluk Shrine, the Blessed Ironwood Tower Shield. It costs around 45k, has the same bonuses as an adamantine shield, with some cold resist I think. The description says its made of Adamantine and Ironwood.

[Munroe]

Jan 14, 2014 18:04:35 GMT -5 Fenix said:

So to be clear, im allowed to wear things like Full Plate and RP it as being made of Ironbark, for example, so long as the armor does not have a metallic descriptor type? (ie, I can wear Full Plate/Masterwork Full Plate, but not Adamantine Full Plate)


Also on another note I wanted to point out. The shield in the Dhedluk Shrine, the Blessed Ironwood Tower Shield. It costs around 45k, has the same bonuses as an adamantine shield, with some cold resist I think. The description says its made of Adamantine and Ironwood.

Quoted already upthread. This answers your question:

Apr 22, 2009 20:30:31 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Apr 18, 2009 17:19:01 GMT -5 EDM Neo said:

Thanks for the response. Good to know about the weapons, too bad about no thousand faces, but I can live with that.

Does the ruling about helms extend to armors? For example, roleplaying that a breastplate was made of bone or ironwood instead of metal.

No, it doesn't extend to armors. A medium or heavy armor should be considered metal unless it specifies otherwise. If it says it is made of bone or dragon scales, or ironwood or something along those lines, then it isn't metal but medium or heavy armors should be treated as if their default material is metal.

Light armors may be considered non-metal unless they specify otherwise, even studded leather armor, as the studs could be made of something other than metal. Note that in NWN, chainshirts are medium armor, not light armor.

Shields and helmets can be treated as other materials unless they specify that they're metal in their names or descriptions. Most shields would be wooden with metal on them rather than being solid metal anyway, because if they were solid metal, they would be too heavy to lift.

Edit: Yes, D&D has both wooden and steel shields so both are possible and I'm not saying all shields have to be wooden. Just saying you can assume they are unless their name or description says otherwise. If you prefer steel, you can assume that instead, but if you're a druid, you'll want the wooden variety.

I would encourage crafting a shield so it doesn't look explicitly metal (ie shiny and metallic) if it's supposed to be wooden, but that's just a recommendation for an experience of immersion.

As for the particular ironwood shield, it should substantially be considered ironwood. Its intended purpose is to be a non-metal shield available for druids. Its description may need a touch-up.

[Viridian Knight]

Opps was suppose to be a PM.

Bump in anycase, are dragon armours legal for druid? (Red Dragon Plate Amour, Blue Dragon Plate Armour) we've heard in Tells such is not the case.

The above quote makes it seem legit to me, but just checking to make sure.

[Munroe]

Jul 29, 2015 21:21:27 GMT -5 Viridian Knight said:

Opps was suppose to be a PM.

Bump in anycase, are dragon armours legal for druid? (Red Dragon Plate Amour, Blue Dragon Plate Armour) we've heard in Tells such is not the case.

The above quote makes it seem legit to me, but just checking to make sure.

I suppose the question I would ask in return is "Why would they not be allowed for a druid?"

Edit: And just to be clear, I'm not trying to be snarky. I don't know why dragon armors wouldn't be allowed for a druid, but if there is some reason that was given for why they wouldn't be, I'd like to hear it.

[Viridian Knight]

Truthfully I'm unsure. It had been stated that they may possess a metal frame, but I saw nothing to indicate that in the description, nor is armour made out of dragon hide in PnP considered to have metal at all to my knowledge.

Though even if there was a base metal frame I'm unsure if a druid would be particularly out of such it would depend greatly on how much metal was used in the creation if I was DMing a PnP game, as the reason druids are restricted from metal armour is surrounding themselves in such a large piece of metal cuts them off from the natural world making them "unbalanced" to my knowledge.

In truth beyond ironwood and a few other types of special heavy armour I think dragon armour is the main sort of heavy armour for druids in PnP.

Cheers for the fast reply.

[Fenix]

I was told by a DM a long time ago that Dragon armors were off limits, because they had frames of metal and such.


I was told by another DM more recently that was a crock of *chickenwing* and whoever said that was wrong.

[goldenhearts]

Even though this is Dm questions and answers, I'd just like to point out. That Ankheg plate armour was something Druids could wear, and that did not use any metal. So why dragon scales, which is stronger than metal in many ways is not allowed is beyond reasoning.

[Munroe]

Jul 29, 2015 22:04:25 GMT -5 Fenix said:

I was told by a DM a long time ago that Dragon armors were off limits, because they had frames of metal and such.


I was told by another DM more recently that was a crock of *chickenwing* and whoever said that was wrong.

Yeah, you were told incorrectly.

I thought there might be some other reason someone had said not to use dragon armors, such as wearing the flesh of a sentient creature. That would also rule out wearing Malarbeast armor and winter wolf armor, among others. But there's no actual class restriction on wearing the flesh of sentient creatures.

The dragonhide/dragonscale armors don't have enough metal parts to be of consequence, if they're made with metal at all. Assuming you have taken the heavy armor proficiency feat, I don't see why a druid would be unable to wear dragonhide fullplate.

[Viridian Knight]

Cheers for the reply Munroe !

It really is appreciated, we wanted to have this worked out long before it came up.