Winter weather

[bentusi16]

Brrrr it's winter time in Cormyr and as someone who works outdoors in this kind of weather, standing around outside away from a fire is not an option, believe me. You either have to bundle up extremely thick or locate a fire or you're going to be miserable. In fact, as soon as it dips into the forties you have to consider standing near a fire. Since the average human body temperature is about 97 degrees to 99 degrees, a temperature on the outside less then half that is extremely uncomfortable.

Body temperature as related to when you die:

36 °C (97 °F) - Mild to moderate shivering (body temperature may drop this low during sleep). May be a normal body temperature.
35 °C (95 °F) - (Hypothermia is less than 35 °C (95 °F)) - Intense shivering, numbness and bluish/grayness of the skin. There is the possibility of heart irritability.
34 °C (93 °F) - Severe shivering, loss of movement of fingers, blueness and confusion. Some behavioural changes may take place.
33 °C (91 °F) - Moderate to severe confusion, sleepiness, depressed reflexes, progressive loss of shivering, slow heart beat, shallow breathing. Shivering may stop. Subject may be unresponsive to certain stimuli.
32 °C (90 °F) - (Medical emergency) Hallucinations, delirium, complete confusion, extreme sleepiness that is progressively becoming comatose. Shivering is absent (subject may even think they are hot). Reflex may be absent or very slight.
31 °C (88 °F) - Comatose, very rarely conscious. No or slight reflexes. Very shallow breathing and slow heart rate. Possibility of serious heart rhythm problems.
28 °C (82 °F) - Severe heart rhythm disturbances are likely and breathing may stop at any time. Patient may appear to be dead.
24–26 °C (75–79 °F) or less - Death usually occurs due to irregular heart beat or respiratory arrest; however, some patients have been known to survive with body temperatures as low as 14.2°C (57.5°F).

Basically, according to the post by DM Hawk, Cormyr is in for an extremely cold winter, as it's already got ice forming on the wyvernflow. That means the temperature is averaging below 32 degrees on a nightly basis, and even during the day. Anyone who stands outside is going to start freezing to death in a few hours at those temperatures! Mountain terrain is going to be colder then that by an average of 10 degrees.

So, winter wear in a fantasy setting?

For the rich, or those who dress richly anyway, fur is the common option. The extremely wealthy will wear fine robes of snow-fox, winter-wolf, stoat (ermine), with hats or hoods of some sort. The robes will probably be worn over layers of linen, and believe me when I say it's still extremely cold even bundled up like this.

FOr the more average, common person, or those who choose to dress less decadently, wool is going to be the main choice. Wool is an amazing material when it comes to the retaining of heat. Woolen caps, over shirts (or jackets), with woolen hose worn beneath the pants, and less fine furs. Basically you stack whatever you can onto your body while staying mobile.

But it's a great excuse to not hang around out doors and instead get inside near the fire, or in some other warm area. Indoors with fire > out doors with fire > outdoors, basically!

According to this: www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencypreparedness/guides/cold.html temperatures in the 50's with rain and wind can cause physical damage to the body if inadequately protected.

So do you have to follow this in any manner? No! Because people hate being told what to do. And that's fine. But it's just a helpful little guide on winter weather RP, if you're interested. If you awnt your character to wander around in skimpy clothes in the cold part of winter, that's up to you, just as much as bundling up in winter gear is. But feel free to use this information as you please.

[shadou]

In a society where magic is real, I would think that rings, amulets, or even clothing enchanted with an 'endure elements' spell would be fairly commonplace. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all, and in a place like Cormyr, I'm sure *someone* would have thought of that.

In HotU, the severe cold temperatures are depicted as ongoing per-round cold damage if you spend too much time away from a fire. Cold damage that is negated, I will add, by a strong enough amulet or ring with cold resistance. I'm sure the temperatures in Cormyr can't compare to the biting cold of one of the hells. My character owns an amulet with a cold resistance on it strong enough to negate the cold damage in the HotU campaign. I'm sure it'll do just fine in Cormyr.

[bentusi16]

That's great, but what i"m trying to do, and what I always try to do, is give another RP avenue. RP about how cold it is! Use it as an excuse to, instead of standing around in the great gaunt town square, go to the inn and hang out inside. Or to a different inn with your friends. Maybe redesign an outfit for the 'cold' season. I did this on my druid and it was quite fun.

If you don't want to though, you don't have to. That's the point. If you want to say "Well I have a cold resist item therefore I am immune to the cold and can run around naked if I so choose", that's also an option, though one the guards may have issue with.

Our characters exist in a world. For me, acknowledging things like the weather, the NPCs, nature, stuff like that, is window dressing, but I do it because it makes more RP. More RP is good to me. Even if it's just a little fluff. You dont' have to follow this philosophy, but I'm helping those who might like to make a few decisions if they are confused on how being cold works in a setting where they don't have modern jackets, or they're from an area that's warm almost year round.

[magiuss]

Dec 11, 2013 8:57:36 GMT -5 bentusi16 said:

Brrrr it's winter time in Cormyr and as someone who works outdoors in this kind of weather, standing around outside away from a fire is not an option, believe me. You either have to bundle up extremely thick or locate a fire or you're going to be miserable. In fact, as soon as it dips into the forties you have to consider standing near a fire. Since the average human body temperature is about 97 degrees to 99 degrees, a temperature on the outside less then half that is extremely uncomfortable.

Body temperature as related to when you die:

36 °C (97 °F) - Mild to moderate shivering (body temperature may drop this low during sleep). May be a normal body temperature.
35 °C (95 °F) - (Hypothermia is less than 35 °C (95 °F)) - Intense shivering, numbness and bluish/grayness of the skin. There is the possibility of heart irritability.
34 °C (93 °F) - Severe shivering, loss of movement of fingers, blueness and confusion. Some behavioural changes may take place.
33 °C (91 °F) - Moderate to severe confusion, sleepiness, depressed reflexes, progressive loss of shivering, slow heart beat, shallow breathing. Shivering may stop. Subject may be unresponsive to certain stimuli.
32 °C (90 °F) - (Medical emergency) Hallucinations, delirium, complete confusion, extreme sleepiness that is progressively becoming comatose. Shivering is absent (subject may even think they are hot). Reflex may be absent or very slight.
31 °C (88 °F) - Comatose, very rarely conscious. No or slight reflexes. Very shallow breathing and slow heart rate. Possibility of serious heart rhythm problems.
28 °C (82 °F) - Severe heart rhythm disturbances are likely and breathing may stop at any time. Patient may appear to be dead.
24–26 °C (75–79 °F) or less - Death usually occurs due to irregular heart beat or respiratory arrest; however, some patients have been known to survive with body temperatures as low as 14.2°C (57.5°F).

Basically, according to the post by DM Hawk, Cormyr is in for an extremely cold winter, as it's already got ice forming on the wyvernflow. That means the temperature is averaging below 32 degrees on a nightly basis, and even during the day. Anyone who stands outside is going to start freezing to death in a few hours at those temperatures! Mountain terrain is going to be colder then that by an average of 10 degrees.

So, winter wear in a fantasy setting?

For the rich, or those who dress richly anyway, fur is the common option. The extremely wealthy will wear fine robes of snow-fox, winter-wolf, stoat (ermine), with hats or hoods of some sort. The robes will probably be worn over layers of linen, and believe me when I say it's still extremely cold even bundled up like this.

FOr the more average, common person, or those who choose to dress less decadently, wool is going to be the main choice. Wool is an amazing material when it comes to the retaining of heat. Woolen caps, over shirts (or jackets), with woolen hose worn beneath the pants, and less fine furs. Basically you stack whatever you can onto your body while staying mobile.

But it's a great excuse to not hang around out doors and instead get inside near the fire, or in some other warm area. Indoors with fire > out doors with fire > outdoors, basically!

According to this: www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencypreparedness/guides/cold.html temperatures in the 50's with rain and wind can cause physical damage to the body if inadequately protected.

So do you have to follow this in any manner? No! Because people hate being told what to do. And that's fine. But it's just a helpful little guide on winter weather RP, if you're interested. If you awnt your character to wander around in skimpy clothes in the cold part of winter, that's up to you, just as much as bundling up in winter gear is. But feel free to use this information as you please.

May be a mistake But unless u put a (-) in front of those C numbers there is a heat wave in cormyr

[Kiyohime 🐍]

I got confused about that as well, but those are body temperatures and not weather. Haha.

......

Edit: Or maybe not, now that I read it again. Hahahahaha.

[bentusi16]

Those are body temperatures

[Rane]

Lol when temperature hots te 40's where i live, we get the swim trunks on. Go boating. Stand around shirtless with body paint at an nfl game.

Haha i guess some are more tolerant than others. In fact I could go into a long rant on te biology of the human body, and micro evolution and explain why some are more tolerant than others. But i guess that would be boring. In short, a tall skinny elf would have a super low tolerance to cold in comparison to s short barrel chested dwarf.

[Deleted]

I think a great way to sum up the spirit of the OP, at least as far as how I took it, is, "Let's all find ways to RP in ways that reflect the ambient environment instead of inventing new ways to be completely invulnerable to yet another facet of the game." I appreciate the preemptive nature of the message, too.

[mandene]

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but it would be nice if some winter ambience was added by the builders.

It's probably too damn much work to add snow piles in all areas, but maybe some easy way to switch the weather to snowing?

Or a message (like in many dungeons about smells and sounds) that informs a player who arrives outdoors, that it's winter and cold? As a reminder against the green in game environment (which makes it easy to forget it's supposed to be cold).

And to be honest, I get dissinterested in roleplaying my character is cold, if I see someone half-naked walk passt me. If they can, why sould my character freeze?

[Malignant Naricissism]

And this is when Nicolas is happy he has his axe that protects from cold. I'd like some ambience added to at least the major areas (Greatgaunt, etc) for the winter season myself.

[Kiyohime 🐍]

Last winter we had snow and Santa Claus!

[Rane]

I remember santa!

[Fluffy the Mad]

Cormyr is a temperate area, good for farmland and such- much like the central US, to the best of my knowledge. If we want to equate that to roughly how the weather is currently, it's pretty bloody cold; it's -11 Fahrenheit here today, counting the windchill. The river's been starting to freeze over, and I wouldn't see anyone out without a heavy coat on, often with hat, gloves, and scarves. I know some people have amulets or rings or armor with cold resistance magic, but it's not a bad suggestion to at least consider changing how things are played out with your own character. (No, I'm not saying "DO THIS," instead agreeing that it might be nice to change things up) Heck, wearing platemail would be a scary prospect if you didn't have enough padding under it. Start sweating in combat, then go out... like licking a telephone pole, but all over.

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2013 19:39:54 GMT -5 Fluffy the Mad said:

Cormyr is a temperate area, good for farmland and such- much like the central US, to the best of my knowledge. If we want to equate that to roughly how the weather is currently, it's pretty bloody cold; it's -11 Fahrenheit here today, counting the windchill. The river's been starting to freeze over, and I wouldn't see anyone out without a heavy coat on, often with hat, gloves, and scarves. I know some people have amulets or rings or armor with cold resistance magic, but it's not a bad suggestion to at least consider changing how things are played out with your own character. (No, I'm not saying "DO THIS," instead agreeing that it might be nice to change things up) Heck, wearing platemail would be a scary prospect if you didn't have enough padding under it. Start sweating in combat, then go out... like licking a telephone pole, but all over.

In full plate armor, it is possible to have frostbite, hypothermia, and heat exhaustion from trapped body heat, all at the same time. The stuff is a temperature control nightmare.

[mandene]

Dec 11, 2013 19:39:54 GMT -5 Fluffy the Mad said:

Cormyr is a temperate area, good for farmland and such- much like the central US, to the best of my knowledge. If we want to equate that to roughly how the weather is currently, it's pretty bloody cold; it's -11 Fahrenheit here today, counting the windchill. The river's been starting to freeze over, and I wouldn't see anyone out without a heavy coat on, often with hat, gloves, and scarves. I know some people have amulets or rings or armor with cold resistance magic, but it's not a bad suggestion to at least consider changing how things are played out with your own character. (No, I'm not saying "DO THIS," instead agreeing that it might be nice to change things up) Heck, wearing platemail would be a scary prospect if you didn't have enough padding under it. Start sweating in combat, then go out... like licking a telephone pole, but all over.

You are forgetting the sea.

Almost always, when sea is involved, unless there are cold currents in it, the weather is milder - which would mean colder summers and warmer winters. Great Britain is an extreme example of that.

Most of the Central US is in the middle of a huge landmass - land-based climates tend to be arid - cold in winter, hot in summer. In the US you might not see the differences, since you have a huge landmass, but you just need to look at climate differences between Europe and Asia (and US) at the same latitude.

[Kelitayu]

Ohh, I'm British!



*Puts bikini on and goes to the shops --- dies of hypothermia.*  


Roleplaying a character being cold is showing that your character has a weakness. I would be a lot more immersed and find a character more believable if she's/he's wrapped up warm or holding their hands up to the fire for warmth. Again, it's like Game of Thrones.. Characters struggling to survive in a harsh environment. Weakness and hardship makes for the best kind roleplay imo.

[Razgriz]

Winter is coming!

[Fluffy the Mad]

Dec 11, 2013 20:07:01 GMT -5 mandene said:

Dec 11, 2013 19:39:54 GMT -5 Fluffy the Mad said:

Cormyr is a temperate area, good for farmland and such- much like the central US, to the best of my knowledge. If we want to equate that to roughly how the weather is currently, it's pretty bloody cold; it's -11 Fahrenheit here today, counting the windchill. The river's been starting to freeze over, and I wouldn't see anyone out without a heavy coat on, often with hat, gloves, and scarves. I know some people have amulets or rings or armor with cold resistance magic, but it's not a bad suggestion to at least consider changing how things are played out with your own character. (No, I'm not saying "DO THIS," instead agreeing that it might be nice to change things up) Heck, wearing platemail would be a scary prospect if you didn't have enough padding under it. Start sweating in combat, then go out... like licking a telephone pole, but all over.

You are forgetting the sea.

Almost always, when sea is involved, unless there are cold currents in it, the weather is milder - which would mean colder summers and warmer winters. Great Britain is an extreme example of that.

Most of the Central US is in the middle of a huge landmass - land-based climates tend to be arid - cold in winter, hot in summer. In the US you might not see the differences, since you have a huge landmass, but you just need to look at climate differences between Europe and Asia (and US) at the same latitude.

The Sea of Fallen Stars is not directly adjacent to Cormyr, but on the southeastern side of Sembia. The Dragonmere is certainly a large body of water and may affect the climate, but it's not the same as being right on the coast of an ocean. So there can be some allowance for that, but I really don't think it's nearly as severe a difference as you're suggesting.

Map Link! (I didn't like the Candlekeep one I had bookmarked)

[mandene]

Dec 11, 2013 20:28:47 GMT -5 Fluffy the Mad said:

Dec 11, 2013 20:07:01 GMT -5 mandene said:

You are forgetting the sea.

Almost always, when sea is involved, unless there are cold currents in it, the weather is milder - which would mean colder summers and warmer winters. Great Britain is an extreme example of that.

Most of the Central US is in the middle of a huge landmass - land-based climates tend to be arid - cold in winter, hot in summer. In the US you might not see the differences, since you have a huge landmass, but you just need to look at climate differences between Europe and Asia (and US) at the same latitude.

The Sea of Fallen Stars is not directly adjacent to Cormyr, but on the southeastern side of Sembia. The Dragonmere is certainly a large body of water and may affect the climate, but it's not the same as being right on the coast of an ocean. So there can be some allowance for that, but I really don't think it's nearly as severe a difference as you're suggesting.

Map Link! (I didn't like the Candlekeep one I had bookmarked)

I live at a large lake myself. We have a different climate than areas further from the lake. We can even grow flowers and crops that grow otherwise only much further south. Just 7 miles outside of my town, the climate is distinctly harsher.

But yeah, that would point to all the places like Valkur's Roar, Marsember and similar to beng warmer than GG, which isn't as close to any water.


But overall what I'm talking about isn't only abour miles. The whole Europe has much milder climate than similar latitude in Asia, or US. Of course the Gulf Stream has a lot to do with it as well.

Just check this map. It shows quite nicely what I am talking about.




Oh, and I used the word "arid" wrongly. But hopefully you understand what I ment..

[bentusi16]

Uh, guys...

Dec 11, 2013 2:02:17 GMT -5 DM Hawk said:

Nightal, the final moon of 1377, offers cold days and bitter nights to the Forest Kingdom. Winter storms assail the northern coast of the Dragonmere while small islands of ice begin to form and float into the firths, harbors, and rivers of Cormyr.

In Wheloon, Purple Dragons look on with concern as thin sheets of ice begin to form over the Wyvernflow. The weary defenders know all too well what will follow should the river's surface freeze over completely. Watching and waiting, the Cormyreans pray for a mild winter. Thus far, the signs are not promising.

I'm not saying Cormyr is normally super cold, but DM Hawk has established it's going to be a very cold winter if the wyvernflow is already freezing over.

[Fenix]

What if perhaps just a serverside reminder of the general weather of the area lately?

[bentusi16]

Oh yeah that reminds me, characters wearing full metal armor in freezing conditions are subject to this: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Chill_Metal

[Razgriz]

Holance will need to collect more winter wolf hides.

[Munroe]

For those curious about the effects of magical gear on cold:

Rules Compendium, which duplicates and revises information from Frostburn, indicates that there are 11 cold bands in D&D 3.x (beginning RC page 154).

Temperature can be the most important effect of the weather. Prolonged exposure to cold or hot temperatures can quickly wear you down. The following table defines temperature bands, which are used to determine the effect of temperature on creatures.

In the discussions that follow in this section, protection level refers to how well a creature is protected against the effects of cold or heat--see Protection, page 156, for what these figures mean.

Temperature	Band
-51 F or lower	Unearthly cold
-50 F to -21 F	Extreme cold
-20 F to 0 F	Severe cold
1 F to 40 F	Cold
41 F to 60 F	Moderate
61 F to 90 F	Warm
91 F to 110 F	Hot
111 F to 140 F	Severe heat
141 F to 180 F	Extreme heat
181 F to 210 F	Unearthly heat
211 F or higher	Burning heat

Temperatures outside the moderate and warm bands can deal damage. Those who take any damage from temperature exposure become fatigued, becoming exhausted if they take more damage from exposure (or if they gain the fatigued condition from any other source). A creature rendered unconscious be temperature takes all damage (lethal or nonlethal) in the form of lethal damage. Exposure to heat can also result in dehydration--see Thirst, page 140.

Those wearing heavy clothing or any kind of armor take a -4 penalty on saves against heat-related damage. A wet creature takes a -10 penalty on saves against cold-related damage.

Unearthly Cold
Unprotected creatures (protection level 1 or lower) take 1d6 points of cold damage and 1d4 points of nonlethal damage per minute (no save). A creature wearing metal armor or coming into contact with very cold metal is affected as if by a chill metal spell, which lasts for as long as the creature remains in the area of unearthly cold. A partially protected creature (protection level 2 or 3) takes damage once every 10 minutes. Protection level 4 or higher offers complete defense against unearthly cold.

Extreme Cold
Unprotected creatures (protection level 1 or lower) take 1d6 points of cold damage per 10 minutes (no save). In addition, an unprotected creature must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. A creature wearing metal armor or coming into contact with very cold metal is affected as if by a chill metal spell, which lasts for as long as the creature remains in the area of extreme cold. A partially protected creature (protection level 2) takes damage and makes saving throws once per hour. Protection level 3 or higher offers complete defense against extreme cold.

Severe Cold
Unprotected creatures (protection level 0) must make a Fortitude save every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check), taking 1d6 points of nonlethal damage on each failed save. A partially protected creature (protection level 1) need save only once per hour. Protection level 2 or higher offers complete defense against severe cold.

Cold
Unprotected creatures (protection level 0) must succeed on a Fortitude save each hour (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Protection level 1 or higher offers complete defense against cold weather.

Moderate and Warm
Most creatures are unharmed by temperatures in these bands.

Hot
Unprotected creatures (protection level 0) must make successful Fortitude saving throws each hour (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage.

I've omitted Severe heat, Extreme Heat, Unearthly Heat, and Burning Heat as irrelevant to the conversation. They mirror their cold weather counterparts.

Rules Compendium also lists appropriate levels of protection for various temperatures:

Protection
Bundling up for warmth is the most common means of protection against cold temperatures. Dressing in flowing, light clothing and staying near shade and water are the most common forms of protection against hot temperatures. Those with access to magical protection often rely on that. A level of protection describes a creature's protection against cold or hot temperatures. To determine a creature's level of protection, take the base level of protection from either the Protection against Cold or Protection against Heat table, then add any modifiers that apply.

Protection against cold temperatures doesn't confer any resistance to cold energy, and protection against heat doesn't confer any resistance to fire. However, equipment that provides a bonus on saving throws against the effects of temperatures contributes that bonus no matter what level of protection it offers.

Resistance to Cold
A creature that has resistance to cold applies that resistance to lethal and nonlethal damage from cold temperatures.

Resistance to Fire
A creature that has resistance to fire applies that resistance to lethal and nonlethal damage from hot temperatures.

Protection Against Cold
Base Level of Protection
0	Creature with no cold adaptations
1	Nonarctic animal with fur / Monsters native to cold terrain
2	Arctic animal with fur / Monsters native to the arctic
3	Endure elements spell / Resistance to cold 5 or more
Modifiers
+1	Cold weather outfit
+3	Improvised shelter (snow cave, den)

I've omitted the Protection from Heat section as it's not relevant here.

That should be enough information for anyone that wants to use magical gear or a nice warm outfit to protect from the cold.

Basically if you're using magic, whether an elemental protection spell or an item with cold resist 5 (or better), you're protected completely to the lowest point of Extreme Cold and don't suffer until the temperature hits -51 degrees Fahrenheit (becoming Unearthly Cold). Once the temperature drops below -50, even someone with magical protection needs to dress for the cold.

[walkonair]

Dec 11, 2013 21:57:42 GMT -5 Munroe said:

For those curious about the effects of magical gear on cold:

Rules Compendium, which duplicates and revises information from Frostburn, indicates that there are 11 cold bands in D&D 3.x (beginning RC page 154).

<cut for length>

That should be enough information for anyone that wants to use magical gear or a nice warm outfit to protect from the cold.

Basically if you're using magic, whether an elemental protection spell or an item with cold resist 5 (or better), you're protected completely to the lowest point of Extreme Cold and don't suffer until the temperature hits -51 degrees Fahrenheit (becoming Unearthly Cold). Once the temperature drops below -50, even someone with magical protection needs to dress for the cold.

I am interested and found this very helpful.  Thanks Munroe

And thanks also Bentusi, for bringing it up for RP consideration and stimulus. Pretty sure my shivering mage is going to be casting Elemental protections every day for a while!

[Razgriz]

So resist cold 5, 10, 15 (Available in some FRC items) is considered protection class 3.

Protection class 4 is?

[Munroe]

Dec 12, 2013 1:26:36 GMT -5 Razgriz said:

So resist cold 5, 10, 15 (Available in some FRC items) is considered protection class 3.

Protection class 4 is?

Protection class 4 would be attained by reaching protection class 3 and using something that granted a +1 modifier, or by reaching Protection class 1 (or higher) and using something that granted a +3 modifier.

Those things are listed in my previous post.

Basically Protection Class 4 can be reached by adding cold-weather gear (grants +1) to Protection Class 3.

So, yeah, if the temperature is below -50 degrees you should dress appropriately even if you're using magic cold resist gear.

[arisnorman1]

*nod* i agress with Ben on this.

[arisnorman1]

agree

[Thrym]

As far as I see it, resist 8+ is beyond Protection Level 3. Chill Metal at most does 2d4 damage, so you never take cold damage once you hit that, at all. There's no damage type for the non-lethal damage given which means you could theoretically argue you still take 1d4 non lethal damage every minute, but by that logic, ice (para-)elementals freeze to death in winter. Personally, I consider it non-lethal cold damage which is reduced by cold resistance as well.

That is not to say I don't approve of this thread, because I'm pretty sure most characters who still run around half-naked do not actually have any cold resistance. *shifty eyes*