RP: Was it something I said...?

[shadou]

I had an experience that left me angry, disheartened, and a little confused this morning. I'm still not certain I really know what to think of what happened.

I had an opportunity to group with a player that seemed to be going the extra mile in their RP. VERY descriptive writing, and quite literary. I was impressed that anyone would go so far to describe what their character is doing. But... some of the content of the descriptive writing, on closer examination, was fairly empty. The player was describing events that the graphics engine had already depicted visually. The player described their character bending down to disarm a trap, even as I watched the character go through the motions. The character described felling multiple foes with their bow, even as I watched them do it onscreen. It all seemed rather redundant to me, and I brought such up to the player, asking why it was necessary to describe events that I could already see happening.

The player, in response, basically kicked me out of the party, basically telling me that if I couldn't agree with them on how they roleplay, that I couldn't be with them. I had to make my way out of a dangerous area, alone, on a character that depends on others for survival. I'm just glad at this point that I brought up the question early in the adventure, because if I had to deal with any respawns on my way out, I'm absolutely certain I would not have made it out alive, and would have had to deal with the XP and GP penalty for dying and respawning myself. In addition, there really was no RP reason for the characters to break up the party. It was all done very OOCly.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened, where I went wrong, what it was I said that was so offensive that the player refused to spend one more moment interacting with my character. And I still am left without a clear answer to the original question I asked: Is it REALLY necessary to type out in detail what other players can already see going on in their screen? The player said something about trying to enrich the RP experience. I question whether typing out, again, in text, what others can already see is really adding anything. I agree on one thing: Gestures, movements, things that cannot be seen onscreen can and should be depicted. You can't see the confused expression on my character's face as I ask a question pertaining to a particularly perplexing issue. I should type that out. You can't see me give the finger to the kobold that just knocked me in the head with a slinged stone. That should be typed out. But you did see me get hit by, and take damage from, the bolt shot at me by that annoying kobold across the room. I don't need to reiterate that.

I'm more perplexed, though, by the player's response to the question. It went beyond being defensive. The player immediately, not at the end of an argument, but immediately at the beginning of it, decided that they didn't want to RP with me anymore, to the point of kicking me out of the group in the middle of a dangerous area, to make my way back to civilization and safety alone.

Was it something I said?

[Kiyohime 🐍]

The way I see it, the player went that extra mile with their rp and you probably approached it in a not so tactful way. Thou shall not say something about how other people RP unless: you are nice about it or have an OOC relationship with them.

What I mean is: most people will get deffensive if you say something about their rp and you can't expect them to react the way you would.

[Kelitayu]

If I don't have anything specific to say and I'm in the mood I often do this kind of thing. It might be largely for the players own benefit. They might just be typings things out in a effort to progress onwards to some more interesting roleplay. For example if a player types that they're disarming a trap it might be a good opportunity for your character to comment on how useful it is to have someone who has those skills traveling with you and then ask where he learned to do it. The player can then respond with a little back story which could then lead onto more back and forth roleplaying. Whereas if he/she just disarmed the trap without saying anything it probably has a smaller chance of generating further roleplay.

Leaving the party was an OOC act however if you were falling out OOCly then going your separate ways is probably the best choice. People need time to cool off, gods know I sure do.

[probablyamage]

Dec 11, 2013 8:52:30 GMT -5 shadou said:

Was it something I said?

Yes, it was something you said. No one likes to be told that their RP is redundant, particularly when it is something valid. Yes, the engine shows that the character was swinging a sword....but not in anywhere near the detail that a person can write or envision it. A level 1 fighter and an epic weapon master have exactly the same sword swinging animation, but 'realistically' would appear vastly different to any onlooker. Adding emotes to activities that the engine depicts adds nuance and life to whatever a character engages in.

From what you said, the discourse between you and the other player happened at the very beginning of a dungeon...and you were perfectly safe to walk out. You can not be the victim if the circumstances under which this happened were the ideal time for a party to split up, with everyone making it back safely. Yes, if you had been stranded somewhere in the middle of a dungeon that would have been rude....but you weren't.

At a guess, whomever you were adventuring with took offense at what you said, and quickly made a plausible RP excuse to leave, which sounds like the right decision to me. If you did not enjoy their RP, than it is best not to travel together. If safety isn't a concern, it is best to part ways quickly in that circumstance.

[wolfbran]

It was definitely something you said. There is no doubt about it. You made 'em mad by saying their RP is redundant, and that you were pointing out the redundancy for them. Someone who goes through the trouble to RP in that fashion is generally emoting it so everyone knows it IS an IC action, and can be constructively commented on IC.

Also, RP also falls down to someone's matter of opinion. The person could be the worst RPer in the world but in their opinion, think that's how you're supposed to do it. And if somebody harshly judges your opinion and pushes for it like that, anybody is going to get mad.

[DM Grizwald]

Any additional emotes during combat or an adventure simply enriches the experience. You get an idea of what the character is really doing or looking for or even their state of mind. It takes the normal hack and slash of the game and turns it into a discussion you can have ic.

Another thing it can enrich is the silent stalking on a hunt or on a scouting mission. Those can be rather quiet because you don't want to be making noise, but when you are crouching down in the tall grass, bending over and looking at a corpse (loot) and rp'ing what you are doing exactly, it fills in the silence that may be happening in the party.

An example I will use is when Sezen and Padrin are out and about. They don't 'talk' much because they are both quiet stalkers. But our actions and movements are clearly written out and this itself enriches the experience.

[gainreduction]

maybe they were RPing more than was expected, but what is wrong with that? This is an RP server! I encourage rich RP!

[FORSETIS]

Yes, after seeing the screenshots the player sent me. It was rather unnecessary. Everyone RP's in their own way, no one has the right to correct the rp of someone else. As long as its not something obviously wrong, or against the rules let them play their character I say. Unless of course its a DM, its their job to moderate. If you dont like how they rp, dont travel with them. Which in this case was suggested by the player. And posting your grievance publicly and twisting it as though you are the victim perplexes me. No one really is a victim here. But how you approached the situation, twisted it, and made it public to idk, further your side of the argument or find others who would agree with you seems a bit unnecessary, and unfair to the other player.

We are a small community and should strive to be understanding, and civil with one another. And take into account how we are effecting the ones around us.

[Fenix]

I do want to contribute this. Just because the games engine generates the actions you're seeing, does it really make it redundant? How much of that all do you actually -see-? I often go through some very in depth, even somewhat graphical, emotes of Fenix healing himself and patching skin with a needle. In reality, I just use a healer's kit. But how much of what happens in reality when that kit is just used like that, do you actually see? When I fight, Fenix isn't just using a sword. He has a bracer with sharp claws on it that he periodically lashes out with, even to the extent of tackling something and ferally ripping it to shreds. Other times he uses a bit of finesse to weave and slice back with it, its a thin scimitar! But the game is not showing all of that. Some players enjoy using more description in their roleplay, even in the most mundane task. Now if they were doing something like *I step off with my left foot as I bring my right down in a hearty step, before traversing back to the left in a sublime manner. Thereafter I took my right in full swing to the next, challenging those whom oppose my progression...* then perhaps that is one thing. But if they were simply adding content and "body" to their stories, then I personally approve, even encourage it! Most trips I go on, nobody says or emotes a damn thing. It gets boring and tense. I have had trips where I would be the only one even talking most of the time. I had to message the players because I was paranoid that I pissed them off or something.

Don't berate someone for doing anything extra like that. It will be taken the wrong way, and could likely be approached in a much kinder manner than anything, but thats to say it is a problem. Just because a graphical engine gives a basic motion, does not mean there is nothing else going on. Taking the extra step to detail more on what you're doing adds that extra mile and immersion, in my opinion.

[Melinda]

Shadou did a mistake..okey, she learned something of this. She does not have the right to judge others rp, agreed on that.
But hey! The rest of us do not have the right to judge Shadou, neither is need for the entire server to know that the other guy sent screenshots-geez!

We should try to be more distinctive, and let the judging part to the DMs, because this is why they are here for.

[arisnorman1]

umm no she started this and tried to twist the *chickenwing* to favor her so he set it stright. don't like it go cry in a corner she is in the wrong and honestly should face punishments for taking this in public and twisting it in her favor.

[mandene]

Maybe so, but how is person after person posting and saying the same thing to put her down or that she is wrong, is going to make things better or change anything? Is 1 more person enough? 10? 20?

Anything else in this thread is redundant and unnecessary, regardless who was right or wrong.

[shadou]

Once again, it seems I find myself the target of a forum gang-bang. You guys are making a lot of assumptions about what exactly was said and how, and are largely ignoring my real point here. The player's response was immediate, after my first query, which I thought was not at all worded rudely. I tried to clarify my question, tried to word it to let the player know I was only asking a question out of curiosity and not trying to attack them. The player chose to take what I said in the worst possible way, and I'm sure it wouldn't have mattered where we were; By the way the player reacted, I'm certain I would have still been kicked out if we were an hour in and two zones deep.

I tried to be tactful. I do not believe I was being rude. I asked an honest question out of curiosity and was basically punched in the teeth for it. I was perfectly happy to take an answer to my question from the character, had they been willing to offer an honest answer instead of aggressively defending themself, and if I liked the reasoning, I might have added it to my own RP. If I didn't like it, I still wasn't going to make a big deal of it; I'd have simply shrugged and continued on as normal.

Now I will admit, and have done so before in prior posts, that I do not like to pull my verbal punches if I think the other person is being an idiot. This is not one of those cases. I was actually impressed by the player LOOK! IT'S ME APPLAUDING THE PLAYER!! I thought it was great that they were going the extra mile in their RP. I did not and still am not going to attack the player for that.

I logged off last night frustrated and angry at what happened. And in my frustrated state, it seems I made an error in judgement in even bringing it up here. Silly me, for making a target of myself here, again, where I apparently have few friends and all too many looking for any excuse to attack me or my opinions.

I made a point not to identify the player. I was not trying to call them out. I was giving them kudos. But at this point, without any further input from the player as to their reasoning for repeating in text what can be seen on-screen, I think their RP could use some refinement. Hell, my own RP could probably use some refinement. Nobody's perfect after all.

Sheesh. And now I've had to post a 5 paragraph response defending myself here. Seriously, why did I have to do this? What did I do to all of you?

[shadou]

Dec 11, 2013 16:42:12 GMT -5 Melinda said:

Shadou did a mistake..

Yes, apparently I did make a mistake. I made the mistake of asking questions. I made the mistake of allowing the forum here another shot at me. I made a mistake of even talking in this troll-riddled, toxic community. Believe me, I won't be doing so again.

[Melinda]

Dec 11, 2013 17:31:56 GMT -5 shadou said:

Dec 11, 2013 16:42:12 GMT -5 Melinda said:

Shadou did a mistake..

Yes, apparently I did make a mistake. I made the mistake of asking questions. I made the mistake of allowing the forum here another shot at me. I made a mistake of even talking in this troll-riddled, toxic community. Believe me, I won't be doing so again.

...Why you oughta!
Now you have to tilth 100 coins to an altar and kill 10 remnant orcs naked with a lvl 3 wizard to be forgiven.

[blinddevil]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say there must be more to this situation than has been revealed. I feel a bit bad for Shadou, as this kind of public discussion can be hard to handle. On the other hand Shadou, you made your post in a public forum, and when you do so and call into question someone else's actions, this is the kind of response you may get.

I can't help but thinking there is more to this situation. Shadou, you have admitted that you can sometimes be blunt and "not pull your punches." Has it occurred to you that you may have fostered a bit of a bad reputation? That could explain the quick reaction of the other player. Its human nature if one has formulated an opinion about another, that one may be quicker to judge than usual. *shrugs* Just food for thought. I don't know you or your characters at all, and probably should just keep my nose out of this - but then it is a public forum after-all.

In the future I would suggest hashing these kinds of questions out with a DM, PA, or other player that you trust, rather than here.

[bentusi16]

Dec 11, 2013 17:25:22 GMT -5 shadou said:

Once again, it seems I find myself the target of a forum gang-bang. You guys are making a lot of assumptions about what exactly was said and how, and are largely ignoring my real point here. The player's response was immediate, after my first query, which I thought was not at all worded rudely. I tried to clarify my question, tried to word it to let the player know I was only asking a question out of curiosity and not trying to attack them. The player chose to take what I said in the worst possible way, and I'm sure it wouldn't have mattered where we were; By the way the player reacted, I'm certain I would have still been kicked out if we were an hour in and two zones deep.

I tried to be tactful. I do not believe I was being rude. I asked an honest question out of curiosity and was basically punched in the teeth for it. I was perfectly happy to take an answer to my question from the character, had they been willing to offer an honest answer instead of aggressively defending themself, and if I liked the reasoning, I might have added it to my own RP. If I didn't like it, I still wasn't going to make a big deal of it; I'd have simply shrugged and continued on as normal.

Now I will admit, and have done so before in prior posts, that I do not like to pull my verbal punches if I think the other person is being an idiot. This is not one of those cases. I was actually impressed by the player LOOK! IT'S ME APPLAUDING THE PLAYER!! I thought it was great that they were going the extra mile in their RP. I did not and still am not going to attack the player for that.

I logged off last night frustrated and angry at what happened. And in my frustrated state, it seems I made an error in judgement in even bringing it up here. Silly me, for making a target of myself here, again, where I apparently have few friends and all too many looking for any excuse to attack me or my opinions.

I made a point not to identify the player. I was not trying to call them out. I was giving them kudos. But at this point, without any further input from the player as to their reasoning for repeating in text what can be seen on-screen, I think their RP could use some refinement. Hell, my own RP could probably use some refinement. Nobody's perfect after all.

Sheesh. And now I've had to post a 5 paragraph response defending myself here. Seriously, why did I have to do this? What did I do to all of you?

Yeah, people get really mad when you question your RP. Like when I suggested the winter RP thing and you immediatly jumped on me talking about how obviously everyone has cold resist gear etc etc how dare I insinuate that you're char shouldn't be walking around with three paper napkins held together by tooth floss.

OBviously not really that's just an analogy. But basically it's this exact kind of thing that you're complaining about that you in turn did. It's all this hurt feeling stuff that drags everyone down.

People need to learn to relax and not immediatly become defensive the minute someone makes a suggestion or questions there RP. Whenever anybody does it it just immediatly leads to hurt feelings all around.

Basically, everybody needs to chill out. I actually think they shuoldn't have did what they did, I side with you on that, but only on what THEY did. So relax. Seriously. You relax. They relax. We all relax.

[Dobian]

It's a game first. Let people play in their own style and keep things IC.

[Kelitayu]

I don't gang up on people and I don't bully people.

I have my own opinions and they are mine and mine alone, if they happen to be the same as others that's coincidence.

I posted here because I felt I had something constructive and helpful to add to the public debate.. because this is like a forum and stuff.

If you go back and read what I said you will see it's advice and it is constructive. I'm not a shark who smelt blood, I'm a person who's trying to help you.

Yes. Forums can be unpleasant places and very recently I got chewed up on here, I felt like s**t for a hour or so and then I told myself.. "Hey, life's too short" and moved on.

I'm not a perfect person but I'm honest and I want you to have fun.

[DM Maleficent's Kiss]

Not to be redundant in re-posting what most are already aware of but here it is for your re-reading enoyment...

Mar 31, 2010 15:58:08 GMT -5 Charon's Claw said:

The Server Rules

1) The main rule on FRC is to have fun, but not at the expense of others.

This doesn't mean that peoples RP can't "stink" but it does mean that each person is allowed to play their character as they wish within the context and confines of what has been established by the rules which follow(the ones I didn't re-post...obviously). This first rule does not however give people the right to do whatever they please, it is intended as a general rule to keep things fun and is in no way intended as the one and only rule simply because we refer to it as the "golden rule."

Take the first part of rule #4 for instance...

4) Be kind to your fellow roleplayers.

Please use language consistent with a fantasy/role-playing environment and classical literature. Remember that the other characters are real people behind the screens of their own computers. It is unacceptable and bannable to harass or abuse other Players or DM's.

Really...this is a two part rule but I highlighted in bold the part which defines an aspect and standard of how RP is to be conducted on FRC. This is also probably one of the most overlooked and broken(in terms of violation) rules on FRC simply because our "golden rule" states that everyone should have fun(which many have misinterpreted as "anything goes") - Yes that's true BUT within the confines of ALL the other rules which follow it. Some in the past have argued that the "golden rule" on FRC is too over the top, too wide open, and allows anyone to do whatever they want with no real set standard, this is simply false because there is a defined standard amongst the other rules which upholds that 1st one. The first part of rule #4 is probably the best example of this and its not overbearing and its not over the top but it does dictate how one should be conducting themselves to the extent of their language ic on the server, and yes it also contains the ooc element of treating others with respect. This second part of the rule echoes our "golden rule" of not having fun at the expense of others.

Also locking this, thank you to those who commented.