DM plots

[Razgriz]

Okay, this is to dicuss some concerns that I think are happening at the moment because in how the DM plots are presented to the player base.

I just want to mention that sometimes these plots, campaings or events are meant to everyone to get involved and to everyone to decide how much they want to get involved. If a group/guild/alliance seems to be "everywhere" or "doing everything" its NOT that they want to disrupt your RP or keep you out of the DM event. These players are just taking their own initiative and acting how their characters would if some situations happened in-game.

Also, remember that its not only epics the ones that get all the fun. Several DM events are designed for characters in all level ranges and most of these events have quests in the scale of what your character should be doing at his/her level.

There are of course situations when Dms want a specific group to be the ones involved, while others are left out. If this is the case, then DMs always tell who can join and who should go somewhere else.


Feel free to add any opinions you have.


- Thanks.
Merc/Cannibal Child!

[StabbingNirvana]

Being the leader of one of the goodly guilds on the server, our position is to take a stance on world shifting events.

There's several of us in the guild and countless other characters that come to us because of the influence we have to see how we're responding or acting in a certain situation.

[Dobian]

As long as it's based on appropriateness of the characters and not based on players. I saw on another server how certain players repeatedly got the choice plots and DM events over everyone else. I don't see that here, but it is something I keep an awareness of. While some guilds might try to take the lead on a certain DM plot, not everyone is IC going to view them as the plot leaders or the right ones to make decisions. For example, in the Bonemaster plot, there are some characters - including one of my own - who think that people who have taken the lead in confronting him have been quite "boneheaded" in their approach. So in any DM storyline, you should expect that different characters will have their own opinions and their own ways they want to become involved and influence the outcome, and whether or not they belong to a certain guild or clique or whatever shouldn't matter too much. The other thing I will mention is the times. Most of us aren't around 24/7, so it's easy to miss events. Fortunately most of them are in the evenings. It's always good to get that heads up on the forum though if something big is going to go down.

[The Tallest Dwarf]

Sept 24, 2013 15:04:02 GMT -5 Dobian said:

It's always good to get that heads up on the forum though if something big is going to go down.

Could not agree more. Although the DMs actively running plots tend to be great about letting those involved know, there's a lot of smaller events that either tie into "server-shattering" events or could provide good jumping off points for player-driven plots that many seem to be unaware of and while it's a good thing that not every single plot involves every PC on the server, it's good to give people the opportunity.

And as a sidebar:Some people are (understandably) hesitant about going to DMs regarding plots or roleplay their pcs are involved in that they may wish to have some DM input or help with so a lot of potential is lost.Whenever I've PMed dms with reasonable and polite requests I either got the assistance or was given perfectly good explanations as to why it was simply not feasible.These requests, in general, were to provide ways for others to be involved or to further a plot that already involved a few people.The DMs, after all, want to facilitate a fun experience for everyone, and as long as the requests aren't selfish or demanding then in most cases I would reckon it's worth asking.

[Dobian]

I agree that it's good to approach DMs with your ideas. I have pestered...*cough*...politely asked DMs to assist with plot ideas in the past. I've been told why an idea doesn't work, so I come up with something else.

[Razgriz]

Sept 24, 2013 15:04:02 GMT -5 Dobian said:

As long as it's based on appropriateness of the characters and not based on players. I saw on another server how certain players repeatedly got the choice plots and DM events over everyone else. I don't see that here, but it is something I keep an awareness of. While some guilds might try to take the lead on a certain DM plot, not everyone is IC going to view them as the plot leaders or the right ones to make decisions. For example, in the Bonemaster plot, there are some characters - including one of my own - who think that people who have taken the lead in confronting him have been quite "boneheaded" in their approach. So in any DM storyline, you should expect that different characters will have their own opinions and their own ways they want to become involved and influence the outcome, and whether or not they belong to a certain guild or clique or whatever shouldn't matter too much. The other thing I will mention is the times. Most of us aren't around 24/7, so it's easy to miss events. Fortunately most of them are in the evenings. It's always good to get that heads up on the forum though if something big is going to go down.

Yes, good points.

[MTGPackFoils]

This is why I browse the DM Timetable board from time to time. If you find a DM's post of interest send that DM a PM. If you get invited to an event by that DM show up early for it. They want to do these things for us, and the more of us interested the better.

[Fleur de la chevalerie]

+1 to everyone, especially the posts about not being afraid to ask DMs. To quote the OP:"Also, remember that its not only epics the ones that get all the fun. Several DM events are designed for characters in all level ranges and most of these events have quests in the scale of what your character should be doing at his/her level."

My Ilmatarran is a low level character and he's still managed to become involved in several events either through IC friendships with higher levels or me not being afraid to ask questions:)

[Razgriz]

+1 To Lionel.

Also: Jealousy and selfishness cause cancer to the server, and I don't think anyone wants it at all, keep that in mind.

[Trollfiend]

[Dobian]

+1 to Veruca Salt!

[bentusi16]

I know why this was made and this is my response to it:

While it is perfectly logical and fine to want to be involved in plots, it is another thing to want to be front and center in every single plot. The point I was attempting to make, which apparently didn't get across, is that while the Triadics are a force for 'good', they are not the ONLY force for 'good', nor are they always the most appropriate force for 'good' for every single event. The same applies across the alignment gap, of course. It's not always appropriate for say, the Velsharoonites to be involved in a plot as the leaders when it seems more appropriate for a baneite or loviatian.

I think it's great that the triadics want to be involved, and I certainly don't begrudge you OOC about it, but consider this: If everyone sees the triadics constantly taking the lead on plots, constantly becoming 'team good' for that particular plot, then they will be less motivated to expand their own character or push themselves forward because they think 'Oh, the triadics are just going to take leadership on this one, guess I'll just be a supporting character again". It's the 'superman' sort of thing where 'why the hell should I do anything, supermans got it covered' type deal.

And yes, we often see the triadics taking the front and center of many plots. The bonemaster plot, the refugee plot, and now the plague plot. That's 3/5 of the current major plots running on the server. I do not think this is based on a conspiracy to shove themselves to the front of the line, just IC reactions to events going on. However, we have to temper that with the OOC knowledge and reasoning that sometimes its better to let someone else be a key player while we are supportive to their actions, especially when an individual or group seems to have gotten very little attention compared to another or your own.

Giving people a chance to shine isn't bad, even if it is slightly metagamey.

[Razgriz]

Valid points Bentusi, but the triadics are not taking the lead in any of those plots . Our only plot is Sword of Souls and the now finished Chronomancer, which were designed for us.


Bonemaster: I for one know who IS the central character for it at the moment. the Triadics, Holance in fact is just helping that character.

Refugees: Aside from forum ic threads and posts, the only event of the refugees we had was the meeting that took place in the Morningmist hall. We did not even went to war with the RCMH.

Disease: I agree that this looks like a druid/nature folk plot, and Im glad they have it. Henrik got involved because one of the druids asked him for help. Elon made a nice poster about the plague and wanted me to post it on the forums, and I said to him that he should do it because it was his initiative.

As for the Valkur's plot, Holance is the only triadic involved there. Ask each Dm: Hackmaster, Hawk and McGuffin if they think the triadics are the central characters and they will say no.


This is for us a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing. If Hernik refused to help Fenix, someone somewhere would be saying he did evil. Hard to belive no? Well no, not really. Time and time again we have stayed in the background and time and time again people have assumed it was IC and reacted to it as if it was IC. And Im sick of it.

[StabbingNirvana]

I suppose we're doing something right. As a guild (order ic) we do our individual stuff and bring it up for support from the other characters in the guild. The guild then decides on a way to help support that character as needed. There's 4 of us in the guild. There's enough events going on in game that we could count on our finger. Do the math.

We aren't at the front and lead of each event. We're equal partners with other religious groups in the refugee/sembia war plot with the loviatans, tempurians, malarites for example dealing with the refugees while the RCMH and to an extent the malarites dealing with the war front. We're doing our part as one of the debatable numbered "good" factions on the server. And to be honest, other than Henrik saying he's been at the refugees helping out and my 1 paragraph on the refugee thread, there hasn't been much going on there on our end.

About the Bonemaster, our role is supportive and has been mostly relegated to being extra manpower when the Bonemaster happens to attack a place we're at. Sorry. Tell the DM not to attack randomly.

On the disease plot, a guild member was contacted by a non-guild member in the plot that asked for support of whatever kind. The guild's role is supportive (not front and lead to be specific). What we did as a guild was talk about it publically and had a meeting where it was decided to distribute scrolls (vel distributed 6 to a lathanderite cleric and we bought another 20 to distribute to other goodly aligned clerics that stay in Greatgaunt (being supportive and allowing lower levelers to deal with it).

I'm touched that you think we're front and center though and made it your personal duty to mention it on two on your characters to two of our members an in "IC" way. I look forward to your third character meeting a third member of the guild. It should be a ... Repetitive read.

[Defunct Fiddlesticks]

Sept 27, 2013 8:21:38 GMT -5 bentusi16 said:

I think it's great that the triadics want to be involved, and I certainly don't begrudge you OOC about it, but consider this: If everyone sees the triadics constantly taking the lead on plots, constantly becoming 'team good' for that particular plot, then they will be less motivated to expand their own character or push themselves forward because they think 'Oh, the triadics are just going to take leadership on this one, guess I'll just be a supporting character again". It's the 'superman' sort of thing where 'why the hell should I do anything, supermans got it covered' type deal.

And yes, we often see the triadics taking the front and center of many plots. The bonemaster plot, the refugee plot, and now the plague plot. That's 3/5 of the current major plots running on the server. I do not think this is based on a conspiracy to shove themselves to the front of the line, just IC reactions to events going on. However, we have to temper that with the OOC knowledge and reasoning that sometimes its better to let someone else be a key player while we are supportive to their actions, especially when an individual or group seems to have gotten very little attention compared to another or your own.

Giving people a chance to shine isn't bad, even if it is slightly metagamey.

The previous posts have explained about our level of involvement so I won't go over that again except to say, sorry but we're not as important as you - apparently - think we are.

If Henrik is approached about a disease or involved in something health-related, he is not going to sit on his hands and do nothing and refuse to be involved in any way. He's Ilmateri, he's a Triadic healer and he will be involved in some capacity. He's a senior priest in a house where there would be dozens of unrepresented acolytes and clerics and has time to try and pursue cures and generally try and help people outside of his general duties. That's who he is and there's only one way I am ever going to respond and that is IC.

I don't try and take over things, that's not what my character is either, he's a supportive PC who helps others, he's never the middle of anything.

"I certainly don't begrudge you OOC about it"...if you truly didn't, you wouldn't be mentioning it.

[Fenix]

Sept 27, 2013 10:32:15 GMT -5 Razgriz said:

Valid points Bentusi, but the triadics are not taking the lead in any of those plots . Our only plot is Sword of Souls and the now finished Chronomancer, which were designed for us.


Bonemaster: I for one know who IS the central character for it at the moment. the Triadics, Holance in fact is just helping that character.

Refugees: Aside from forum ic threads and posts, the only event of the refugees we had was the meeting that took place in the Morningmist hall. We did not even went to war with the RCMH.

Disease: I agree that this looks like a druid/nature folk plot, and Im glad they have it. Henrik got involved because one of the druids asked him for help. Elon made a nice poster about the plague and wanted me to post it on the forums, and I said to him that he should do it because it was his initiative.

As for the Valkur's plot, Holance is the only triadic involved there. Ask each Dm: Hackmaster, Hawk and McGuffin if they think the triadics are the central characters and they will say no.


This is for us a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing. If Hernik refused to help Fenix, someone somewhere would be saying he did evil. Hard to belive no? Well no, not really. Time and time again we have stayed in the background and time and time again people have assumed it was IC and reacted to it as if it was IC. And Im sick of it.

Alright I figure now should be a good time to post, because I understand why this topic was posted up and I want to put in my opinion now in relation to the event my own PC is involved in. Firstly to clear this up, Fenix never actually went to Henrik at all. He gave samples to the local house of healing, but Hawk was a bit tired so there was a misunderstanding and he thought I meant the suzail house. No big deal, because anybody who knows fenix knows he trusts Henrik's opinions and advice more than most people he knows, so it would not be unheard of for him to have requested the aide of him.

As far as the triadics taking control, I dont know why I keep hearing this. For one, theyre not even -involved- in the disease plot. I have seen one or two healing the disease, but I have not seen a single one out in the bramble actively searching out it unless a player wants to bring the spare help. In other plots? I really have not seen them in the major plots taking a front line. One member of them does not qualify that either. Just because you see a paladin out there attacking bonemaster, does not mean he represents the actions of the entire order. Fenix isnt even part of the Guardians, but someone came up to him and asked him what they were doing in relation to some of Fenix's actions, when he doesnt even represent them at all. There is a bit too much assumption and OOC going on here.

Something I see all the time is people complaining that a DM may not pay much attention to them, or other players don't do it, or maybe they get crappy RP or something in relation to that. Well why do you think it is? Not for nothing, and this will sound biased and mean now, but do you make your character appealing? Don't expect when a sphinx lands in the town, that you're going to be rewarded for the four people who took the initiative to do somethign other than attack it, while you stood there and stared orjust swung your sword. If you feel like you should be at the center of somthing, or somebody else should be involved, dont stand back. Pursue it! Take the steps your character would to be involved. If your character ICly thinks a paladin should not be involving themselves with affairs of the land, then dont just silently grumble to yourself, voice your opinion on it IC! If you stand back, you will be left back. If you are the quiet antisocial elf killing dwarf that doesnt speak to people, dont always expect somebody to walk up to that brooding person in the corner not talking. It becomes a matter of people expecting everything to be done for them, and not choosing to initiate the conversation themselves.


This post is likely biased, telling you how to play, or what not. At this point, I rather don't care. If somebody is going to complain about a behavior OOC and then they continue their own behavior, then don't complain. Take the limelight for yourself. This game is a stage so start acting.

[mandene]

I find this whole thing petty..

If the player who caused this whole outburst has an issue with whom and how much is involved in storylines, that player should bring his or her concerns to a PA or a DM.

[Kelitayu]

Can't comment on the specific situation here because I wasn't witness to any of it.

To give my 2 cents on the overall DM plot thing.

For me I feel that the problem is that all these plots occur after my bed time. Or I'm ridiculously unlucky because I never seem to witness anything in game! Perhaps think about acquiring an / some European DM(s)? Or just be more active during the day for us. Generally whilst I am okay with the big plots I also really like little interactions and small events/quests. I used to DM and I concentrated solely upon small events, spicing up adventures and such. The one time I've witnessed DM interaction was such a spicing up of an adventure and it really made it so much more special. That's my opinion.

PS - On the talking with DMs and requesting things, I just don't have the gutts to do that right now, but that's my own fault/problem I guess. I'm not sure players should have to seek out the DMs in that way though.. the fun for me is in reacting to what the DMs throw at you, not necessarily asking for stuff. Like, I'd much prefer a DM throw a situation at me and then I absorb that into my character rather than dictating to them what I want. That's just my personal taste though.

[Fenix]

Sept 27, 2013 14:51:06 GMT -5 Kelitayu said:

Can't comment on the specific situation here because I wasn't witness to any of it.

To give my 2 cents on the overall DM plot thing.

For me I feel that the problem is that all these plots occur after my bed time. Or I'm ridiculously unlucky because I never seem to witness anything in game! Perhaps think about acquiring an / some European DM(s)? Or just be more active during the day for us. Generally whilst I am okay with the big plots I also really like little interactions and small events/quests. I used to DM and I concentrated solely upon small events, spicing up adventures and such. The one time I've witnessed DM interaction was such a spicing up of an adventure and it really made it so much more special. That's my opinion.

PS - On the talking with DMs and requesting things, I just don't have the gutts to do that right now, but that's my own fault/problem I guess. I'm not sure players should have to seek out the DMs in that way though.. the fun for me is in reacting to what the DMs throw at you, not necessarily asking for stuff. Like, I'd much prefer a DM throw a situation at me and then I absorb that into my character rather than dictating to them what I want. That's just my personal taste though.

See I live on the east coast but I face a similar issue. I just get really really lucky sometimes to find an event. Hell, Hawk did one last night that didnt start until midnight my time, and lastesd to 2-3am which sucks for a college kid. Its not a problem of asking a DM to do something for us, though sometimes if you have a fun idea it wont hurt, its just that reaction you have IC that makes it enjoyable. As much as I would love more DMs and more events, I guess we have to accept that the dm's -have to- enjoy their own lives as well. I GUESS. ;D

[Kelitayu]

Yeah, you're right of course and I feel terrible saying it, it's just a point to be made I guess. I really don't mean to grief the team over it. I know they work super hard, it's just a painful reality, these damn time zones.

[stonerender]

See I was raised with a (self inflicted mind you) mindset that asking for something is a good way to not get it. And most servers I've played on this has been true: ask for a bone from a DM and expect a lecture and to be specifically ignored for awhile. Unless I need actual help due to the game/server glitching up on me, I don't ask DMs for much of anything. They will do what they want to do and as a player I make the most out of the little things that pop up...even if its just something brief and amusing like Bentin power-walking all the sudden.

That said while a lot of stuff I hear on here falls along the lines of "You don't have to be epic to..." from my observation you pretty much do, or at least be 15+ or so. I don't want to pick on the Bonemaster plot but when he shows up in town I basically know that "Okay, whatever happens I can't do crap. So I need to get out of town because everything that might pop up is designed to off the excessive number of epics in GG". I can't really blame a DM for that because frankly, that IS what tends to be around. Which is why in a PnP plot epics are few and far between - they are such game breakers that you have to throw in near silly amounts of stuff to challenge them.

Hope that wasn't too rantish. I'm writing this right after getting home from work so my brain is still rebooting.

[Razgriz]

Honeslty, I think Dms have enough drama to deal with already. Im grateful what they all have done for my characters and I appreciate the effort they take to make this fun for everyone. My way to thank them will be not bringing any drama or issues that are not that important because I would rather see them having fun and making DM plots, than see them handling complaints.

PAs are there, and from what I have seen few people really try to contact one. Maybe it is time to send the PA of your preference some tells with your concerns no?

[mandene]

Sept 27, 2013 15:31:10 GMT -5 Kelitayu said:

Yeah, you're right of course and I feel terrible saying it, it's just a point to be made I guess. I really don't mean to grief the team over it. I know they work super hard, it's just a painful reality, these damn time zones.

I here with you on this. Even if I stay online to 5 am my time during weekend, the DM quest happens usually after my bedtime (which means AFTER 5 am, I'm still yet to figure out what time I should be up to get into some action). Or happened somewhere else. I do however happen sometime to be in the vicinity of something going on.

That is why it feels petty for me to see others fighting over something, I really just usually see scraps of. And I'm not even complaining. (yes, I have managed to get involved in one quest, which makes me realise how much more I'd like to have, but I also realise fighting with other players will get me nowhere near a DM quest)Just get a grip people! And ro you, who says that your group doesn't get that many quests? I see you time and again giving thanks to this or other DM how nice it was to experience his quest. It does make it seem that you're getting quests all the time.

And basically, if (you think that) a group gets more quests than anoter group, then it's not for you to fight with that group. It's for you to bring it to the attention to the DM in charge, or a PA, because bringing it to the DM who happens to give that group many quests might not get any effect. And it will give you even less effect to complain to the players who get the quests. And it gets even less effect to create threads like this. It's just that simple.

[Kelitayu]

Sept 27, 2013 16:03:37 GMT -5 mandene said:

Sept 27, 2013 15:31:10 GMT -5 Kelitayu said:

Yeah, you're right of course and I feel terrible saying it, it's just a point to be made I guess. I really don't mean to grief the team over it. I know they work super hard, it's just a painful reality, these damn time zones.

I here with you on this. Even if I stay online to 5 am my time during weekend, the DM quest happens usually after my bedtime (which means AFTER 5 am, I'm still yet to figure out what time I should be up to get into some action). Or happened somewhere else. I do however happen sometime to be in the vicinity of something going on.

That is why it feels petty for me to see others fighting over something, I really just usually see scraps of. And I'm not even complaining. (yes, I have managed to get involved in one quest, which makes me realise how much more I'd like to have, but I also realise fighting with other players will get me nowhere near a DM quest)Just get a grip people! And ro you, who says that your group doesn't get that many quests? I see you time and again giving thanks to this or other DM how nice it was to experience his quest. It does make it seem that you're getting quests all the time.

And basically, if (you think that) a group gets more quests than anoter group, then it's not for you to fight with that group. It's for you to bring it to the attention to the DM in charge, or a PA, because bringing it to the DM who happens to give that group many quests might not get any effect. And it will give you even less effect to complain to the players who get the quests. And it gets even less effect to create threads like this. It's just that simple.

I can not thumb this up enough!

[The Tallest Dwarf]

Sept 27, 2013 15:48:20 GMT -5 stonerender said:

See I was raised with a (self inflicted mind you) mindset that asking for something is a good way to not get it. And most servers I've played on this has been true: ask for a bone from a DM and expect a lecture and to be specifically ignored for awhile. Unless I need actual help due to the game/server glitching up on me, I don't ask DMs for much of anything. They will do what they want to do and as a player I make the most out of the little things that pop up...even if its just something brief and amusing like Bentin power-walking all the sudden.

That said while a lot of stuff I hear on here falls along the lines of "You don't have to be epic to..." from my observation you pretty much do, or at least be 15+ or so. I don't want to pick on the Bonemaster plot but when he shows up in town I basically know that "Okay, whatever happens I can't do crap. So I need to get out of town because everything that might pop up is designed to off the excessive number of epics in GG". I can't really blame a DM for that because frankly, that IS what tends to be around. Which is why in a PnP plot epics are few and far between - they are such game breakers that you have to throw in near silly amounts of stuff to challenge them.

Hope that wasn't too rantish. I'm writing this right after getting home from work so my brain is still rebooting.

Perfectly reasonable, having come from similar server situations myself. It took me awhile to build up relationships with a few DMs I feel comfortable enough to speak with but I assure you they really do have a vested interest in providing fun for all, and helping people further their character's stories. Cheers:)

[StabbingNirvana]

This just in (without council vote)! The Triadic Order of the Divine Resurrection is actively recruiting starting Monday 9/30/13. We are currently leaders in every DM event on the server. If you have a Triadic character (or want to make one that's Tormish, Tyrran, or Ilmateri) PM me here or send me a tell on Velisario Chrysosnomos (in game player name of gial thiceras/Gial Thiceras). All levels are encouraged. Lower levelers are doubly encouraged.

Figured I might as well make the best of it.

[Defunct Fiddlesticks]

Sept 27, 2013 16:43:44 GMT -5 StabbingNirvana said:

This just in (without council vote)! The Triadic Order of the Divine Resurrection is actively recruiting starting Monday 9/30/13. We are currently leaders in every DM event on the server. If you have a Triadic character (or want to make one that's Tormish, Tyrran, or Ilmateri) PM me here or send me a tell on Velisario Chrysosnomos (in game player name of gial thiceras/Gial Thiceras). All levels are encouraged. Lower levelers are doubly encouraged.

Figured I might as well make the best of it.

You're terrible

[TrueBlueOriginal]

I don't know what this whole thread is about. My character Kira is central in ALL the plots. If she's not, that plot isn't really happening, right? That's just something Slate made up. Pretty sure you're all just making up stuff and saying it's going on. If it were going on, she'd be involved, taking lead, organizing good guys and bad guys, telling them who gets to wear which dresses and who gets to wear spider spikes. No, Velisario can't wear that skirt with that armor. I'm sorry, but no. Yes, Shamoke can wear spider spikes, but only if he wears a hood with them so his beard doesn't clash.

Kira even killed that dragon Slate claimed was his. She killed it with the power of nakedness. There is no Bramble disease, the animals are just sick with missing Kira. Her beauty restores the undead to life. The only reason she's not "involved" with any so-called undead plot is because undead spontaneously resurrect in her presence, so the DM is specifically having the undead avoid her life-giving radiance. She's at the core of that whole scenario.

Kira is the warm little center that the life of this world crowds around.

You may bask in her warm glow for awhile.


Well, I thought it was funny.

[StabbingNirvana]

nice. both my characters made it into your post. truly, I am the best.

[TrueBlueOriginal]

Oct 4, 2013 23:30:14 GMT -5 StabbingNirvana said:

nice. both my characters made it into your post. truly, I am the best.

No, maybe you missed the point. Kira is the best. You may bask in her glow.

Anyway, you can carry on with your discussion about plots that don't exist. Go ahead now. *waves a hand dismissively*