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Post by Lady Frost on Aug 8, 2013 13:00:45 GMT -5
Based on the quote below, I wanted to hear ideas on how you prefer or try to get another PC to submit rather than being killed, or do you even try? It could be done I think, even for LG characters - like the quote of paladin's dilemma I posted in paladin thread. Like doing "citizen arrest", and giving teh guy over to the authorities. But that would require the other player to comply being overpowered using dice-bag rolls instead of fighting it out with a drawn weapon. Some situations are too fast paced to deal with through dice-rolls. The way I see it, if you end up in combat and you end up losing, to the victor go the spoils. When Vel fought with Aris outside Greatgaunt, my intention wasn't for him to be declared dead on the scene as happened. I was going to just beat him up and have him delivered to the Red Ravens beaten and bloody so that we don't have to deal with another "Aris came back from the dead, who would have seen that coming!" situation. In another situation where Vel pursued a character that cast a non-damaging yet still very illegal spell in town, the pvp situation broke out and the only way that I saw to contain it and slow down the pace was to all out kill the character and thankfully, the character was kind enough to allow it to be played as if he was knocked unconscious or whatever it was. I think the official word was the character was sweeped with the blunt of the blade and then subdued. Edit: Then afterwards some dice rolls in a calmer setting, an attempt to flee and an implosion .........I've learned that bringing the situation to a full stop in fast pace pvp is the best way to go. In one of my first pvp situations on Vel, he came across a guy with an undead companion. He asked the guy to destroy the companion. Guy didn't comply and Vel dealt with it, but was attacked by the undead's maker. Did like 2 knock downs on the guy and each time he'd get up and run. Eventually he stopped running, drank an invis potion and was never seen again! Literally, I've never seen that character back on the game! In two of those cases, Vel was given a hearing and absolved of wrongdoing and in one situation, it never came to the courts. The thing is that a hearing has to be done because Cormyr is a lawful country. Just cause paladins are paladins doesn't mean they should be automatically be in the right. There should be more leniency towards them and more weight behind their words, but instant-innocence isn't fitting. Anyways, what I'm trying to say here is ... Always kill your opponent then let the gods sort it out! If you're a paladin and you see something that requires you to act on (because the guards aren't doing it/DM's are busy or offline) step in and break skulls. You all have my stamp of approval and that's all that matters! I've rarely been in a situation were I've tried for submission, but my preferred method would be to say either beforehand, or try to during, something like *trying to get them to submit* or if the player knew what I meant *submission*. You could actually even type it, "I'm not going to kill you but I will stop you." Something that let everyone know I was not intending to kill them. This would allow one of two things to happen. The other PC could *submit* when they feel they are beat or if they want to battle the entire way to 'death' they can be 'raised' with everyone's agreement/understanding that nobody actually died. Now if the PC wants to battle to 'death' I include two factors; unarmed or weapons. If you're unarmed you have no chance of accidentally killing the PC, however if you use weapons and you 'kill' the PC with a crit, you did actually, though accidentally, kill them. Hopefully everyone will believe you did it on accident. If spells are used, it gets trickier based on the spell. |
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Post by bentusi16 on Aug 8, 2013 15:54:02 GMT -5
In Ed's RP, he almost always go for submission rather then killing, because it makes sense.
He's not there to be the judge and executioner, he's the thieftaker. His job is to drag you before the legitimate authority and present you for your crimes. He doesn't want to kill you.
Hence the giant hammer. It's an intimidation tool. Imagine someone over six foot, clad head to toe in armor, bearing a holy symbol of the god of justice, and wielding a 18 pound sledge hammer, approaches you after you've committed a crime.
Would you be more likely to fight or just give in?
The only time Ed is going to go for a pure kill is when he's executing someone, or innocent lives are at stake.
Sadly the mechanics refuse to alow that to happen, and most people play fast and loose when it comes to intimidation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 16:08:27 GMT -5
Most of the time, I let the other player know in tells OOC'ly whether I intend to fight to the death or not, so they don't fight back relentlessly just because they think my character is trying to kill theirs. I always also say in so many words they're free to respond to my nonlethal attack any way they want, even lethally, if they want, but just be aware it's not my intent for my part. That usually works pretty well. One time my character stood to be captured by a PC enemy, I let the other player know ahead of time that I would RP my character being too hurt to continue if she reached "badly wounded," and then held to my word. I try to be careful, though, not to tell the other person how to respond to my nonlethal attack, because some characters will kill for the smallest slight. I just try to clarify my own intentions so the other player doesn't interpret a nonlethal intent on my part as lethal.
On another server, where I had a lot of trust in the other players, I actually went the other way after witnessing an IC murder, where I warned an entire party of three that my paladin intended to TPK the entire other party on sight if she found them. As it was, she did find them, and they legitimately RP'ed there way out of death in a way that made sense. Which I was also happy with.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Aug 8, 2013 16:43:13 GMT -5
There's times where you know when you could deal with the situation in an orderly fashion and there there's other times when you can't. I'd rather not try typing too much when my character could be attacked on a whim or when I'm mid combat. I have buttons to press. Smites to make. Knockdown to attempt. Taunts to make. Saying something like "submit" isn't what I'm thinking about. I'd rather deal with the consequences of the opposing character being dead or declared dead than having my character die. I know my character will only engage in combat pvp only when he could be declared innocent. Besides, if the opposing character is dead and doesn't want to play along with being knocked unconscious, I just won't raise him and leave him dead FOR REAL. And if anyone else attempts to raise the person, I'll kill them too for attempting to steal my bounty.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 17:01:30 GMT -5
I'd rather not try typing too much when my character could be attacked on a whim or when I'm mid combat. I have buttons to press. Smites to make. Knockdown to attempt. Taunts to make. Saying something like "submit" isn't what I'm thinking about. I'd rather deal with the consequences of the opposing character being dead or declared dead than having my character die. That's exactly why I send OOC tells before the fight starts if my character prefers not to kill, or if I want to leave an IC out from character death. So the other player doesn't do that. ^^ |
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Post by Duchess in Masquerade on Aug 8, 2013 17:07:10 GMT -5
If such an instance arises I usually try sending a tell stating that that my character prefers not to kill but won't hesitate if things continue and that the ball is essentially in their court. Sometimes other players being involved can complicate this whole process so when others are around more careful consideration needs to be taken.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 17:11:57 GMT -5
It's not too hard to determine Darkharp would prefer not to die, he is usually running full tilt away from the fight at the first sign it isn't going well.
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Post by Lady Frost on Aug 8, 2013 17:45:49 GMT -5
I prefer to not do it in tells so that others around know what they are seeing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 17:50:13 GMT -5
I prefer to not do it in tells so that others around know what they are seeing. Tells doesn't mean you don't play it out. I just do tells to inform of intent so that feeling of, "OMGOMGOMG they're killing me!!!!" doesn't lead them to take the fight further than is intended out of sheer OOC adrenaline. The first time I encountered that was on Prisoners of the Mist when the player of a vampire monstrous character sent a tell in the RP build up to an attack of, "Relax. You have time to emote, I'm not going to just wipe you out. We're playing together." It was a GREAT scene, a great thrill that he made, and my character ended up escaping. He was congratulatory afterwards. And ... he's a DM there now. Go figure. |
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Aug 8, 2013 20:17:07 GMT -5
The times that doesn't work is when your opponent is pushing to fight- I've been mid-sentence a time or two while someone immediately hostiled and threw a big green hand of op-win at my characters on various servers, or got so close that they did a KD while I was flat-footed. This is a fine idea in the case of a good player, but some just see winning or losing, and refuse to do things rationally or in any sort of unbiased manner.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Aug 8, 2013 20:24:24 GMT -5
I mean, if you get the luxury of being able to type, I have to concur with ladyfrost. Emoting out "not looking to kill" or "seeking submission" or "subdual damage" whatever phrase you come up with is probably for the best that way there won't be an issue of others thinking you killed the guy.
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Post by minion on Aug 8, 2013 20:56:01 GMT -5
Hence the giant hammer. It's an intimidation tool. Imagine someone over six foot, clad head to toe in armor, bearing a holy symbol of the god of justice, and wielding a 18 pound sledge hammer, approaches you after you've committed a crime. Would you be more likely to fight or just give in? ((edited for brevity)) ...most people play fast and loose when it comes to intimidation. first, i'm sorry for the slight derail regarding intimidation. i've heard this sort of thing a lot (on the forums, not from angry tells), and while there are merits to this argument i will point out that the person you're threatening may well have fought (and killed) a 10' tall ogre (that wielded a 40 pound tree-trunk) not an hour before. unless your PC has something approaching the Epic Reputation feat for beating on people that oppose them, simply being "imposing" may not be enough when facing down a fellow adventurer. while this may be a slight derailment, i suspect that it is at least somewhat appropriate to a discussion of non-lethal PvP encounters. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 21:46:21 GMT -5
The times that doesn't work is when your opponent is pushing to fight- I've been mid-sentence a time or two while someone immediately hostiled and threw a big green hand of op-win at my characters on various servers, or got so close that they did a KD while I was flat-footed. This is a fine idea in the case of a good player, but some just see winning or losing, and refuse to do things rationally or in any sort of unbiased manner. If I knew someone to be like that as a player or as a character, I would be a lot less likely to try a nonlethal result to combat. There needs to be a willingness to play along on both sides. I do, however, check my own attitude before trying something nonlethal to be sure that I myself am not "win-minded" in my own outlook to the situation before asking someone else to be willing to admit defeat. I don't feel it's fair of me to ask someone else to be willing to admit defeat if I'm asking it out of my own desire to "win." |
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Post by The Tallest Dwarf on Aug 8, 2013 21:51:47 GMT -5
This is why I'm in favor of a subdual token; you can not only rp it but also have a mechanical component to firm it up.
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Post by darinder on Aug 9, 2013 4:52:29 GMT -5
The times that doesn't work is when your opponent is pushing to fight- I've been mid-sentence a time or two while someone immediately hostiled and threw a big green hand of op-win at my characters on various servers, or got so close that they did a KD while I was flat-footed. This is a fine idea in the case of a good player, but some just see winning or losing, and refuse to do things rationally or in any sort of unbiased manner. +1 this I had an instance where a known enemy of my character approached her just after a battle with some DM spawns. At the time, she had her (en-flamed thanks to a nearby mage) sword out (it really was just after the battle) and a rather heated discussion broke out between them. Her foe made some comment or other and as I was typing up her response, his player hit the ol' hostile button and sneak-attacked. I was furious at the abuse of game mechanics that took place. I'll almost always opt for a subdual option if combat breaks out. Just pulling back if the fight looks too one-sided is often enough. Or, if things go a bit too far, step in and ooc heal. As yet, my chars have never had to ooc raise anybody. But, yep, if it's at all possible agreeing beforehand and RPing it all out is the best way to go in my opinion. |
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It could be done I think, even for LG characters - like the quote of paladin's dilemma I posted in paladin thread. Like doing "citizen arrest", and giving teh guy over to the authorities. But that would require the other player to comply being overpowered using dice-bag rolls instead of fighting it out with a drawn weapon.
