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Post by breadandcircuses on Jan 14, 2013 3:08:23 GMT -5
More a curiosity then anything, I was wondering what peoples standards are for performance checks in the module. I've been going by the standard 3.0/5 check list, which is... www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Perform_SkillI have written and played out several songs in game in character, and I'm probably going to write some more up soon, I've been reading up on poetry and verse lately to get a better feel for it. But for a bard I was just wondering how people considered it. For example if I roll a 1 on the check, which seems to happen a lot, my character gets a hand cramp as he's beginning to play and has to give it a rest for a bit. And I understand that the quality of a ballad is probably removed from the performance check, but I was thinking more for purely instrumental pieces that are played. |
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Post by soulfien on Jan 14, 2013 7:45:38 GMT -5
There's no standard for performance and a performance check isn't even required for singing or being creative. In this game, only bards can put points in performance. A single class skill is something that's pretty powerful as referenced by the single class skill Animal Empathy. Performance is used to magically enhance a song to harm or benefit someone's day. It has nothing to do with actual musical talent. It is also a fact that bards aren't the only people who can sing. A warrior could sing, quite lovely in fact, a battle hymn of Tempus as she's hacking apart her enemies. So I say, let your talent be determined by the quality of your work, not the roll of the dice.  Sometimes RP just needs to be acted out, not rolled. |
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Post by EDM Entori on Jan 14, 2013 8:49:18 GMT -5
or use persuade in stead.
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Post by 828stingstingneo on Jan 14, 2013 8:54:31 GMT -5
I don't know. It might be fun to use the Epic Check table and watch everyone run the performer out of town if he performs badly enough. Of course, since you have to get a roll of less than 1 to change an indifferent audience to an unfriendly one and then a subsequent roll of less than 5 to change it to hostile, it's unlikely anyone's singing will ever be that bad unless a low CHA non-bard uses a CHA check in lieu of a Perform check. I guess people are fairly tolerant; after all, we haven't even run Frubo out yet.
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Post by EDM Entori on Jan 14, 2013 9:01:51 GMT -5
I don't know. It might be fun to use the Epic Check table and watch everyone run the performer out of town if he performs badly enough. Of course, since you have to get a roll of less than 1 to change an indifferent audience to an unfriendly one and then a subsequent roll of less than 5 to change it to hostile, it's unlikely anyone's singing will ever be that bad unless a low CHA non-bard uses a CHA check in lieu of a Perform check. I guess people are fairly tolerant; after all, we haven't even run Frubo out yet. we had a long time player here and a DM who played a prominent bard, and he was adamant that 1's do not Auto fail, with skills. so if you got 30 perform and get a 1, well it doesn't mean led zeplin turned into a 13 year old's cover on youtube. I'm not sure what source says exactly BUT, I'm fairly confident that if I put my stock in this player, I won't be disappointed. |
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Post by silverstring on Jan 14, 2013 9:18:21 GMT -5
I don't know. It might be fun to use the Epic Check table and watch everyone run the performer out of town if he performs badly enough. Of course, since you have to get a roll of less than 1 to change an indifferent audience to an unfriendly one and then a subsequent roll of less than 5 to change it to hostile, it's unlikely anyone's singing will ever be that bad unless a low CHA non-bard uses a CHA check in lieu of a Perform check. I guess people are fairly tolerant; after all, we haven't even run Frubo out yet. we had a long time player here and a DM who played a prominent bard, and he was adamant that 1's do not Auto fail, with skills. so if you got 30 perform and get a 1, well it doesn't mean led zeplin turned into a 13 year old's cover on youtube. I'm not sure what source says exactly BUT, I'm fairly confident that if I put my stock in this player, I won't be disappointed. Amen. |
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Post by soulfien on Jan 15, 2013 14:11:08 GMT -5
Why does there have to be a roll to begin with? It's RP. Tell your story, sing your song, have fun, and keep the dice rolling in the dungeons.
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Post by Syd's Blue Sky on Jan 15, 2013 14:20:18 GMT -5
Why does there have to be a roll to begin with? It's RP. Tell your story, sing your song, have fun, and keep the dice rolling in the dungeons. Because rolls are fun! That having been said, if everyone is "properly" (no, I'm not going to define this!) playing out their stats it's not needed in many cases. BUT then there are situations like that time Phelzaron commented on James being able to hear him allllll the way across the square... so I rolled a d20 with my +60 listen mod. Not to mention there are times when I wan to know how well I'm doing at... whatever I'm doing. Fort save when I drink, str check when I emote climbing a rope, Charisma check when I've been..... spending far too much time in The Prancin' Bull for my own good. Roll Play doesn't slap down your Role Play, it supplements it. All things in reason. |
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Post by simon1981 on Jan 15, 2013 14:29:55 GMT -5
I lifted this from the wiki you linked.
The point here being, that it's the DC you're beating, not what you roll. If you have a +20 modifier to your Perform skill check, it doesn't matter a whit if you roll a 1 or a 20. At worst, it's still a "great" performance. As Entori pointed out, skill checks do not auto-fail on a 1.
I wish players would take the time to recognise this, but there's always going to be someone who assumes rolling a 1 = Epic Fail, which is simply not the case.
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Post by Razgriz on Jan 15, 2013 14:34:44 GMT -5
I lifted this from the wiki you linked. The point here being, that it's the DC you're beating, not what you roll. If you have a +20 modifier to your Perform skill check, it doesn't matter a whit if you roll a 1 or a 20. At worst, it's still a "great" performance. As Entori pointed out, skill checks do not auto-fail on a 1. I wish players would take the time to recognise this, but there's always going to be someone who assumes rolling a 1 = Epic Fail, which is simply not the case. yes, I agree here. Rolling a 1 with +20 mod in a 20 dc skill means success. Rolling a 1 with +20 mod in a 30 dc skill means fail. |
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Post by simon1981 on Jan 15, 2013 14:35:04 GMT -5
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Using_Skills#Skill_ChecksSkill Checks
A skill check takes into account a character’s training (skill rank), natural talent (ability modifier), and luck (the die roll). It may also take into account his or her race’s knack for doing certain things (racial bonus) or what armor he or she is wearing (armor check penalty), or a certain feat the character possesses, among other things.
To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skill modifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’s ranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability, plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, including racial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, the better. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.
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Post by simon1981 on Jan 15, 2013 14:40:21 GMT -5
In essence, any perform roll (skill +d20) that my PC hears (say in Greatgaunt) over a 15 or so is going to get at least a nod of approval, or applause, maybe a cheer if it goes over 20/25. That's so long as my PC isn't a grumpy bugger, or hates the bard PC.
Of course, it's always down to the player to decide on their RP in these situations.
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Post by Spirit of a Phoenix on Jan 15, 2013 14:51:08 GMT -5
I actually rolls skill rolls occasionally and ability rolls just to show what my characters skills and talents are. For example, I am actually one of those weirdos who do put points into social skills like persuade and bluff even though PCs are not bound to be forced to bow down and accept my rolls. It is also unlikely that I'll have a character with dumbstats. It makes me feel better at least, lol. That is a discussion for another time though.
Overall, I agree. It is kind of annoying to have someone emote for your character and assume they failed at something because there was a 1 rolled. Despite a +30 that makes it a 31.
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Post by Syd's Blue Sky on Jan 15, 2013 14:55:30 GMT -5
I think the last time I used my rather beefy Bluff mod on James was to convince a group of people in Suzail that Snipe calls him "Juicy James" in private.
I really only used it for humor, despite the fact I have... I dunno, a +28 or something?
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Post by TermaForever on Jan 15, 2013 17:09:10 GMT -5
Some of my best (read 'most amusing') RP moments come from rolling the dice and rolling with the result. I don't recommend it for major life and death moments or anything but it can be amusing.
But i certainly don't force people to make them, nor do I always make them myself. And it drives me crazy when people roll on EVERYTHING. I know that's how DnD works but come on...I don't want to have to figure out a fair DC for something every 10 minutes.
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Post by breadandcircuses on Jan 15, 2013 22:34:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies.
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Post by soulfien on Jan 16, 2013 5:43:26 GMT -5
If rogues can "Take 20" when recovering an epic "instant kill" trap, my PC can demonstrate a natural no roll talent for singing in town square Singing has a lot less pressure |
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Jan 16, 2013 9:16:27 GMT -5
I tend to only roll perform for myself, except when doing 'odd' talents that bards are not typically known for. (My bardess does ventriloquism from time to time, though she tries to avoid being terribly obvious about it)
Just as a side note, my dwarven rogue sings all the time, despite having no bard levels. The quality is up to whoever likes the song.
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Post by TermaForever on Jan 16, 2013 16:57:37 GMT -5
Just as a side note, my dwarven rogue sings all the time, despite having no bard levels. The quality is up to whoever likes the song. Think of the Hobbit Movie. Think of the song the dwarves sing near the beginning. Think of how many people (myself included) think its awesome. I doubt any of them took levels in Bard. |
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Post by Savoie Faire on Jan 20, 2013 7:59:45 GMT -5
I saw a player do this, and I stole the idea without remorse. What he would do is emote something like, *He performs a sad song* and then type out the song. And the auto-whatchamajigger rolls the Perform Skill dice.
This way you get the best of both worlds. You can see the die roll and the emote, and react to whichever suits your fancy, or both. Assume your character hates sad songs, but the guy rolled a 20. Which do you go with? It's up to you!
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