Orcs and Half-Orcs

[eberronbruce]

This has nothing to do with a person who plays a half-orc character. Nothing to do with you as a person. This has to do with attitudes according to the setting overall.

First off this has to be brought up. Its making me quite angry. I am playing an elf that actually hates orc and orckind, this includes half-orcs. For doing this I'm being left out of something that should be normal and natural for an elf. It is already difficult finding a group based on my timezone. Now I'm not an expert in FR, but I know that FR is nothing like Eberron which there orcs play a more peaceful role, thus the orc-elf hating relationship doesn't exist in Eberron. From my understanding the racial hatred is quite deep in FR.

First orcs from the monster manual.

"Orcs are aggressive humanoids that raid, pillage, and battle other creatures. They have a hatred of elves and dwarves that began generations ago, and often kill such creatures on sight."

This is not to mention any religious indications as well. The fact is Orcs have been at war with just about everyone. They are sworn enemies to elves and dwarves. They believe through their deity that they must take the world by force.

Brief description of half-orcs.

"Half-orcs stand between 6 and 7 feet tall and usually weigh between 180 and 250 pounds. A half-orc's grayish pigmentation, sloping forehead, jutting jaw, prominent teeth, and coarse body hair makes his lineage plain for all to see. "

Essentially a half-orc has a lot of appearances of an orc minus some differences. Also, lets not forget that many half-orcs are in orc tribes and many also worship the orc deity. Half-orcs don't live in a vacuum to themselves. They are a mix breed and from the history of things I would see more half-orc being raised by orc tribes than by human. As human may see evil in it and dispose of it. And half-orcs never really get accepted in both human and orc societies. Its like a half-drow.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, lets take a normal commoner. When they see an orc, they will probably most likely panic, get the guards, or get ready to hide or defend themselves. What about a half-orc? Would the person just see the orc features and freak out, or think nothing of it?

I would wager a normal human would see the orc features and think it was an orc of some kind and do what they would do if they see an orc. If not at least have strong suspicions and caution. Not being friendly or helpful unless it is to remove them from their town.

Now lets look at the guards. If they see an orc they probably be ready to defend their town, city, village, post, or whatever. What about a half-orc? Would they see it as working with the orcs to get in or something else? Or would the be extremely cautious and watch it extremely carefully?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now lets take another extreme.
How would the guards and commoners react to someone regardless of race walking around with a huge axe? How would they react to someone that has an obvious deformity like goat hoofs, forked tongue, bugs crawling over them, a functional skeleton hand, or anything else that can be considered horrific? It has been known in ancient times that people who had leprosy were ostracized. Would the people do the same thing?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now to the players.
Knowing that orcs have a deep history of raiding, pillaging, killing, and doing other things that are not considered friendly to other, would your character allow this to effect your decision? There is probably a chance that unless your character has been living under a box that they ran into at least one person that has suffered in some way shape or form from an orc. Whether that person is someone directly or indirectly affected is debatable.

Would your character be willing to accept a halforc with ease considering what you know about its possibly father or mother? Or its possible heritage or religious convictions?

This is not telling you how to play your character, but how I see a typical person of part of this set reacting to this.

If your character is a paladin or cleric of Lathander or some other goodly god that respects all life, then I think you would be more accepting than others due to religious convictions.

If an elf, I think would be extremely hard pressed due to the fact of the actual history between to two races. Especially with the religious aspect involved of Corellian fighting Gruummsh and removing his eye. Being that Gruumsh is the chief enemy of Corellian, I see this hatred being real deep. Since many halforc tend to worship Gruumsh also. Just read the core book to find this reference.

I think dwarves would have the same kind of feelings toward orc and orckind as elves do. Given they also probably have a history fighting orcs as well. Though I do not know of an account were the dwarven deity fights the orcish one.

I see others a mixture, but probably would have or known someone who have suffered by an orc and probably not take to kindly on halforcs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now taking it a step further with the elves. If your character is known to be friends with an orcblood, whether half or whole, how would elves in an elven society, example might be Evermeet, see your character?

I think it may have dire consequences to that characters personal character when dealing with other elves. They may not look to keenly on that, though would probably remain polite to the elf.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For players playing halforcs. (Nothing against you personally)
A mode of playing a halforc is trying to get accepted into society. It guides a character with motives and goals to strife for. However, it is extremely difficult to do that. For you might save one life or do something good for one person doesn't mean all the people will trust your character. There will be many that only see the orc side and will not trust you no matter what you do.

There are many ways to try to get accepted. One way to keep from being harass is to cover up the characters body and wear a helm or hood. The guards never ask for hood and helm checks here. And as long as the character doesn't show they are halforc, no one should really know.

I try not to bother the ones with simple disguises or covering themselves up and not making a scene. I don't want to ruin it for the player. Though if the character is exposed then I think it would be natural for other characters to react to that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the things that irradiate me is that I play a natural character who has a natural hated enemy for his race. When others tell him he must love a race that is sworn to kill him, its very frustrating, particularly when most of the server population has the same view. It forces someone who is playing an otherwise normal character to be ostracize, and I being told over and over that the server isn't a solo server. Its hard enough to get a group in my timezone since I don't live in the west.

So, I'm being forced to solo or to radically ignore all the character's motivations and reasoning. Which it goes totally against the character concept. It should not be that hard to get a group with a character that hates orc and orckind, given the history and environment of the actual FR setting.

Why is it that the majority of players would go against what otherwise would be normal in world?

The server doesn't have a small population, there is usually a small group of people on, though I seen this server empty. So, it isn't like you and the other guy the only people on so you group. There are guilds and other groups as well.

Is it just because the character is played by a person?

I seen issues on big servers like this where they totally ignore NPCs, run around with weapons drawn in cities. Elves and orcs being all buddies. And when you play a character that actually dislikes or hates a normally hated race, you are brand a racist and no one wishes to group.

Hate to bring the bad news. But FR is a very racist place. Elves hate orcs and goblinoids. Dwarves hate the same. Orcs hate everything that isn't orc. Bugbears hate other races. I am sure there are many many examples. These add conflict, which add wars, which add stories.

There is another FR server on NWN2 which I won't name that is totally ignores these things and ruin immersion.

I think a major problem is being tied into allowing a player to play a character that is tied to a typical monster race. In the case of NWN2 its an actual orc. But halforcs also have orc characteristics which to many can be seen very similar to an orc.

[soulfien]

There's never been much logic in FRC on what is acceptable in town.

A necromancer with an open to the public skeletal arm or a half dragon with huge dragon wings or even a half-orc carrying an axe is completely acceptable, but the guards and fellow adventurers will flat out ace an animal companion to prevent it from scaring commoners.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Now more on your point:
Hating and/or fearing half-orcs is not only acceptable, but 100% allowed. If your elf doesn't like the orcish race, then please, feel free to scorn them. Don't let other people tell you not to. It's your character. My elf doesn't like talking to half-orcs.

Heck, there are some elves in this game who hate humans so much that they scorn half-elves or even other elves if they worship human deities.

Play your PC as you see fit.

[LivingWasteland]

Elves are by no means bound to hate a half-breed. Elves have their grudges, but they are also one of the more wise species alive. They understand that some half-breeds want to do good, and set a part from their full-blooded kin.

Moving on, there are plenty of reasons why an elf and a half-blood might become friends. One saving the other's life. It being the friend of another trusted friend and giving it a shot. It following a good-aligned deity. If one was to see a character attached to a half-orc, there just might be a good story behind why.

An elf is not going to be shunned, scorned, or kicked out of elven society for being friends with a half-blooded orc. This goes back to Elves being the long-lived, wise race that they are. A race known for it's wisdom is not going to immediately cast judgement with no thought to extenuating circumstances. All angles would be considered, and reasoning would be heard.

A term I keep hearing a lot is characters being forced to 'love' certain races when they should be hated. Nobody is forcing anyone to 'love' anyone, and nobody should be forced to 'hate' anyone. All things of this matter should remain IC, because it's an IC thing.

[Lady Frost]

We live in a world where people work very very hard to erase racism. Most people now are taught from a young age that "everyone is equal" and "prejudice is bad". Getting people to give up that concept for RP is hard, very hard sometimes. The same goes for torture and other evil things. "How could a good person ever want to RP that bad stuff"? Getting people to understand that being racist is acceptable, not evil, and that you can play a good PC and still be racist isn't always easy because, like I said, we're conditioned to think in real life that "racism is evil".

On top of that dilemma, you face another couple. 1) Some people feel bad when they cast out others for no good reason other than racism. "They didn't do anything wrong, why should I hate them?" 2) That's a player I could play with! If I hate them, I can't play with them.

No it doesn't fit the setting but people feel better about themselves, and in many cases, don't likely realize what their doing.

For the record, I completely agree with the OP. There is not enough open racism. And to go farther, I don't think there is enough conflict in general. Players in general are too quick to look for ways to fit in rather than stir the pot. And yes, I do admit, this is a bit ironic since Zoe is nearly neutral now from her 'quest' to 'not stir the pot'. That was never the intention, its just how the story unfolded. *shrug* (though to be fair, Zoe is extremely racist.)

[soulfien]

Nov 10, 2012 3:14:09 GMT -5 LivingWasteland said:

Elves are by no means bound to hate a half-breed. Elves have their grudges, but they are also one of the more wise species alive. They understand that some half-breeds want to do good, and set a part from their full-blooded kin.

Moving on, there are plenty of reasons why an elf and a half-blood might become friends. One saving the other's life. It being the friend of another trusted friend and giving it a shot. It following a good-aligned deity. If one was to see a character attached to a half-orc, there just might be a good story behind why.

An elf is not going to be shunned, scorned, or kicked out of elven society for being friends with a half-blooded orc. This goes back to Elves being the long-lived, wise race that they are. A race known for it's wisdom is not going to immediately cast judgement with no thought to extenuating circumstances. All angles would be considered, and reasoning would be heard.

A term I keep hearing a lot is characters being forced to 'love' certain races when they should be hated. Nobody is forcing anyone to 'love' anyone, and nobody should be forced to 'hate' anyone. All things of this matter should remain IC, because it's an IC thing.

There are some elven societies in Faerun that WILL shun anyone who accepts other races openly and some that will kick out any elf from their home for it. Elves are highly xenophobic. Surface moon elves not so much, but wild elves, sun elves, drow, and avariel sure are! Oldest race or not.

Now it's perfectly fine to play an elf who's very tolerant and accepting of half-breed orcs just as it's perfectly acceptable to play an elf who scorns them.

[iangallowglas]

I completely agree with the OP. People will call your character racist and evil. I've had it done to my characters plenty of times. I've had people threaten to kill my characters for it. Not much you can do about it. Lady Frost and Soulfiend are right, you just have to carry on. I for one appreciate your attempt to RP your character in this fashion and if we played at the same time, I'm sure a couple of our characters could end up in a mutual abiding deep hatred for these filthy races. ;D

[arisnorman1]

ALL evles hate orcs and if you ignore that then im sorry your metagaming read any FR book or anything no ELves get along with orcs so to those who except them glad ur metagaming

[Malignant Naricissism]

Nov 10, 2012 7:59:39 GMT -5 arisnorman1 said:

ALL evles hate orcs and if you ignore that then im sorry your metagaming read any FR book or anything no ELves get along with orcs so to those who except them glad ur metagaming

Metagaming is the use of a player's knowledge, that his character does not have, to influence a character's decisions. For example, a character has never seen a medusa before, and knows nothing about them, but the character still shuts his or her eyes because the player knows their gaze petrifies. This is metagaming. What you're describing is potentially breaking established lore, not metagaming. That word gets thrown around too often.

More generally, saying that all elves either aren't or are racist towards X is a blanket statement and an over-generalization, and adventurers, being the main characters, tend to break the norm anyway, so I think stating this one way or the other is incorrect.

[StabbingNirvana]

In the immortal words of Slate Dongder; "I'm not a racist. I just hate orcs".

[arisnorman1]

no its metagaming the only reasons elves or anyone eccepts orcs the elves i have seen in the past they accept them just for them being sheilds that is metamaing in my eyesusing them as a sheild and ignoring rp

[soulfien]

[darinder]

Nov 10, 2012 8:53:25 GMT -5 arisnorman1 said:

no its metagaming the only reasons elves or anyone eccepts orcs the elves i have seen in the past they accept them just for them being sheilds that is metamaing in my eyesusing them as a sheild and ignoring rp

Your own words defeat your argument - and it's an argument that's been had before. "the elves I have seen" limits the elves in question to those, as you've said, that you have seen. There are many elves who exist you haven't seen. And even the ones you have, you can't possibly know the entirety of the RP they've engaged in.

Until you know the entire story of the elf/elves you've seen with a half-orc, you have no right to decry their RP.

For the record, both of my elves hate Orcs. One hates half-orcs, the other tolerates them (but doesn't particularly like any of them). I have a human bard who has stood up for a half-orc on one occasion, not because she particularly liked him but because he was being mistreated (unfairly in her eyes).

[LivingWasteland]

There is a single half-orc my elf is fond of. That HALF-ORC saved her and her friends lives when two of our three were slaughtered by FULL BLOODED orcs. That also included this HALF-BLOODED killing many, many FULL-BLOODED.

My elf has a very justifiable reason for defending a specific half-orc. I've been told OOCly I'm pretty much playing my elf wrong for being so defensive of someone that saved her and her friends lives, simply because of race.

I'm not against racism in game. Not at all. It happens, and is a huge aspect of the FR setting. But anyone stating that there are no exceptions ever? That's nonsense.

[Syd's Blue Sky]

I, for one, get nauseous from the putrid stink of the elven race any time I walk into any populated area in Cormyr.

I think that orcs, full, half, quarter, third, whatever, should be thrown out on the side of the road whenever one has the gall to attempt to enter a settlement of Cormyr. Did I mention they should be dead when this happens?

I feel it would improve the safety of our cities if all hin were to be branded as thieves and be forced to receive tattoos to this effect on both their hands and their faces.

I propose that gnomes should be locked in blast proof dungeons with spiders where they can't hurt the general population with their useless inventions.

Dwarves are ignorant, loud, greedy dirt bloods who should get their ugly arses back down the hole from which they came.

Humans are fickle, ignorant, uncultured, smelly animals who have been blessed with nothing more than a reproductive cycle that closely resembles that of most rodents. This alone accounts for their continued existence in the realms, and the sooner the great mages of the time can find a "cure" for this pestilential problem of prolific procreation the better.

ZOMG dragonz ia cute, though! Cuddly wings (Laughter) yaaay i have breathweapon is ball catch-a-ride!

[Malignant Naricissism]

Regardless, we can only really speak for our own characters, and only the storytellers/DMs can speak for the other 99% of elves. Until they weigh in on whether the NPC elves are racist or not, this really just boils to opinion I guess.

Also, I find humorous irony in that we are racistly labeling the elves as a racist race here.

[Sadistic Hobo]

Cormyr is one of the proudest human nations in all of the Forgotten Realms setting. It stands to reason that there could be a lot more racial pride than is portrayed. This is naturally a player choice, so if that element isn't present, it's not my place to tell people to do otherwise.

Sometimes character motivations seem to stem from modern enlightened thought rather than from source, however. In character arguments of moral relativity that flatly contradict the facts of the setting are pretty frequent around Greatgaunt, and open minded characters that would prefer to accept everyone seem to be more common than not. The former really takes me out of the setting, but the latter is just a personal role play decision, and an understandable one at that.

At least to me, it preserves a little more setting to have Cormyr populated by humans who are damn proud of their kind and the civilization they've built, displaying some rivalry towards elves (Which my character views as haughty and undeservedly arrogant) and disdain toward half-orcs (Which my character views as outright abominations) in particular.

It's a personal style choice of course, but it is the one I go with.

[Malignant Naricissism]

While we're on the subject of prejudice, I think there should be a lot more racism against dragon disciples, considering Cormyr was just brutally ravaged by one a couple of years ago, but that's just my opinion.

[rotterdam]

Nov 10, 2012 2:22:01 GMT -5 eberronbruce said:

This has nothing to do with a person who plays a half-orc character. Nothing to do with you as a person. This has to do with attitudes according to the setting overall.

First off this has to be brought up. Its making me quite angry. I am playing an elf that actually hates orc and orckind, this includes half-orcs. For doing this I'm being left out of something that should be normal and natural for an elf...

I know, you probably want to be pure in your racism and disdain half-orc PCs to the point where they either don't exist or are kill on sight- but honestly we're talking about two players here trying to make a living and breathing community and where can you go from there? It's either ignore or PVP every time then, when instead you could demonstrate visible hate and show racism while giving breathing room for RP, and developing a more long term story.

If you're having trouble finding a group, I think you can actually join one with a half-orc in it and treat that half-orc with complete mistrust and disdain the entire time while still going on a mission with him. Treat him like a meat-shield slave who's brought along as bait. Of course it depends on who your other companions are, but mixed groups are certainly possible. Perhaps it's not ideal, but it's creative use of RP to solve a problem.

[eberronbruce]

We are taking and using the word "racism" and throwing it around. Remember elves, dwarves, and even humans have a history with orcs and their kind. These grudges and dislikes are not something that is pulled out of thin air but are based on lore of the campaign. You could read about this and find strong evidence of why orc and orckind are hated. Its not so much of being racist, but rather following the lore.

Remember it is divine that orc and elves are at war. It is also divine that orc conquer others. This is according to their deity, which many halforcs worship, this may or may not include PCs.

And yes, there are elven settlements that will shun their own kind if they are siding with a race that is sworn to wipe elven kind of the face of the world. I would think the same would go with dwarves and other races as well.

Its not about being racist but sticking to the actual setting.

[darinder]

Nov 10, 2012 13:34:31 GMT -5 eberronbruce said:

Remember it is divine that orc and elves are at war. It is also divine that orc conquer others. This is according to their deity, which many halforcs worship, this may or may not include PCs.

Not all half-orcs worship Ol' One Eye or His pantheon. Many half-orcs are going to be the "innocent" result of a rather unpleasant conception (given the very racial hatred discussed). Not all (yes, most I grant you, but not all) are going to be mindless thugs out to destroy everything that's clean and decent. I've seen on a number of servers, players portray remarkably in-depth characters where the "poor" half-orc is desperately trying to find himself a place in society, one without bloodshed and torment.

I've highlighted a single word out of a single sentence from your post, not something I like to do but in this case I'll make an exception...

Because there always will (and should!) be exceptions.

Do we want a deeply immersive RP server? Yes. But first and foremost, we want a server that's fun for everybody regardless of who they choose to play. As somebody else said, RP your (no specific "you" implied here) characters' (plural for those people with more than one) innate racial hatreds all you like. It can lead to some very memorable RP.

But do not shun another player or oocly attack their RP because their PC has a tolerance or, heaven forbid, an actual liking for a halforc. As I posted earlier, there could well be a deep and long-established story behind it that you or your character may know nothing about. Feel free to engage the "too accepting" character in a way that encourages further development. Everybody wins in that scenario.

*sighs sadly* Isn't this whole argument just a specific instance of "telling somebody how or how not to RP"?

[EDM Entori]

this is very much a "relationship" and a how do you want your character to work question.

Straight from the facts, yes Orcs are hated by elves, in lore. yes followers of Corellon would probably hate them.

But there are many questions you have to ask your-self about your character.

alot of it for me has to do with where they are from?
are they moon elf, sun elf or wood elf?
what has their upbringing shown them? remember the long view 100 years of life is what an adult is, so where are the downstream reactions to your character?

and finally the big one? Where are they now? cormyr? what does Cormyr allow, how does Cormyr influence your character?

Typically speaking a elf from a "high society" elven home like say, evermeet, everseka would probably go to kill on sight mode, with an orc, with a half orc. that all depends on the other roleplayer, you are an action-reaction with other people on FRC emotes,talk, everything is an action and you react according to how your character would. so if that half orc is of a goodly god etc.. well you have to measure your reaction.

Sun elves are highly xenophobic, but they do not travel the realms much they are mainly in evermeet and mainly do not leave, as of the end of 3.5 editions story line... getting into the "Return" etc. well judge accordingly, there is a big renewal in myth drannor right now, so you might get a few more sun elves, but these are elves the choose to leave home, they are trend breakers.

Moon elves, are more eager to accept some things, (some are anyways) they often seen the more diplomatic side, and wood elves are often in natures company etc. so you have to bring that heritage into view.

finally where does your backstory bring them? or leave them? with what opinions, but I have to say, do not decide your characters decisions before you allow the action/reaction of FRC to take place. Entori has a rather strong hate for half orcs, but there has been two he's trusted without worry, due to their actions. especially ones themselves that work against grummish one eye. Remember Corellon hates the One eye, not all half orcs serve him.

and as I said cormyr. you are in cormyr. LAWFUL GOOD, Cormyr. So you have to play nice with the locals or get the jail time, going to jail doesn't make you evil, depending on the action that put you in there. but the law exists and is enforced. ONTOP of it all, your character choose to be here, to adventure in this realm. Why? for an elf there is more reason then most, the history is there, the old ruins are there, the proximity to the old Cormanthor is there. yet you are still in someone elses turf, sometimes playing nice is a way to find allies when your elf is alone and new to a strange place.


at the end of the day it is what you want to do, can you remain true to source and play your elf? yes

source is just foundation, where the RP and you let it take it is the magic that is this server, and the story telling of the realms.

[soulfien]

Actually, Cormyr is Lawful Neutral. They accept the presence of evil so long as evil behaves.

[EDM Entori]

Nov 10, 2012 14:48:07 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Actually, Cormyr is Lawful Neutral. They accept the presence of evil so long as evil behaves.

I thought isinhold was LN, but cormyr was LG, that what was stated during the western reach accord stuff...

forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cormyr says NG LG and LN so.. they're in that ball park.

[longearmage]

Nov 10, 2012 15:15:52 GMT -5 EDM Entori said:

Nov 10, 2012 14:48:07 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Actually, Cormyr is Lawful Neutral. They accept the presence of evil so long as evil behaves.

forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cormyr says NG LG and LN so.. they're in that ball park.

Cormyr is LG. *nods*

[iangallowglas]

Nov 10, 2012 12:57:48 GMT -5 Malignant Naricissism said:

While we're on the subject of prejudice, I think there should be a lot more racism against dragon disciples, considering Cormyr was just brutally ravaged by one a couple of years ago, but that's just my opinion.

Quote for truth! I agree! Especially red winged ones.... *coughs* Brass though are lovely things,everyone should love Brass RDD's ;D

[Deleted]

Nov 10, 2012 16:48:29 GMT -5 iangallowglas said:

Nov 10, 2012 12:57:48 GMT -5 Malignant Naricissism said:

While we're on the subject of prejudice, I think there should be a lot more racism against dragon disciples, considering Cormyr was just brutally ravaged by one a couple of years ago, but that's just my opinion.

Quote for truth! I agree! Especially red winged ones.... *coughs* Brass though are lovely things,everyone should love Brass RDD's ;D

While I agree with this, I also think a couple of things make it ok that there isn't a lot more racism against them.

1. Dragons are exotic, naturally charismatic creatures, DDs in fact get automatic bonuses to charisma as they advance in level. Even evil dragons demand a certain level of majesty from simple humanoids.

2. Cormyr (at least the Cormyr of FRC) has a few adventurers who have been showing their faces (and wings) long enough that people have become used to it. The dracorage was partially limited within cormyr (again on frc) with the help of an organization that is well known for including one of the most famous DDs in Cormyr.

Just a couple of talking points, but..for the most part I DO agree.

[Savoie Faire]

First: I want to say that the OP is both right and wrong.

He is right in that what he says is true for the common masses.
He is wrong in that what he says is untrue for adventurers.

In FR, adventurers are outcastes, vagabonds, sellswords, thugs, murderers, villains, babystealers, and scum. You have joined this club. Only rarely do adventurers receive kindness from strangers and usually only when they have been instrumental in some way in saving the asses of the strangers, such as the several adventuring companies of the Dales or the Red Ravens of Cormyr.

Otherwise, to the average commoner, your elf is no better than a half-blood orc. Why was your elf cast out of elfyland? Is he a murderous babystealer? In fact, why do they even let your character in the gates of any city? How is a half-blood orc with an Adventurer's Charter in any way worse than a full blooded elf with the same credentials?

There is one sure place where racisim and other forms of prejudice are weak or absent. This is at the table of a common inn where adventurers measure one another by their skill and not their appearance.

If you desire to play a racist, please feel free to do so. If your racist roleplay makes your character unwelcome in adventuring parties, then it is a consequence of your own roleplay.

[rotterdam]

I'd also add-- prejudice and racism and unreasonable hatred and distrust is primo stuff to turn into great RP. Saying "I'm an elf and you're a half-orc, so we can never associate" is the end of the story right there. What's the fun in that? Think of how many great TV shows (like say, The Office) are about people who can't stand each other, and how many stories are mined from that- isn't it better to actually play it out? Otherwise those series would have lasted about five minutes!

I guarantee you most people playing half-orcs are expecting persecution (and if they're not, they ought to) and even enjoy the idea of the being tragic or angry misfit/outcast. Acting like a snotty elf to them is par for the course, but making it so their character can't function is something else entirely.

[Slanker]

As someone who has played a half-orc for quite some time on this server, I can say my char has met a lot of distrust and what not. As a char, my half-orc did not let it bother him too much and kept his own course.

And you know what...the RP payed off, big time.(I want to stress, it WAS RP, not metagaming from peeps that needed a meatshield). Granted he was a meatshield by class, so he would've been doomed as shield regardless of race.

He became an influential figure in an organisation that was sanctioned by the crown back then. He even got knighted by Lady Alustair herself. Later on, he went and became a member of the RCMH. Due to some mad man with a wooden box I created, that career was short lived for my half-orc.

He even became a trusted friend, well a respected friend at least, with many of the top elves that were in charge of the Hullack. On several occasions my half-orc was even allowed to set foot within the Hullack Village. A pretty darn tough feat to pull off, but it happened anyway. Again, all done by RP even after the initial hate and despise towards my character.

So, some already said it somewhere here in this thread. Don't get too blinded by what source tells you, I see it more as a guideline, and don't loose the opportunity for good RP when you do encounter a half-orc.

If the one you happen to meet turns out to be a bitch though, slaughter away at your own leisure!

[eberronbruce]

First off I think we don't quite understand an orc. The LOTR did a very good demonstration in depicting orcs.



This matches real closely to what a typical orc is like.

Two links
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Orc
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Half-orc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In most culture, half-orcs are prejudiced against. Within the lands of their human ancestors, half-orcs are commonly seen as savage thugs and looked down upon. As a result, most half-orcs in human society are forced into menial labor or violence for a career. Some choose to take on the life of an adventurer, perhaps merely as another acceptable means to wealth and power or sometimes as a way to throw off the shackles of other people’s perceptions.[5]

Within orc society, half-orcs are sometimes still looked down upon as weaker and inferior creatures, but overall they tend to fare better. Most orcs grudgingly acknowledge the superiority of the half-orc’s intellect as well as their comparable strength. As a result, it is not entirely unusual for a half-orc raised amongst orcs to rise to a position of power within his or her tribe."

Illustration of a half orc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To say that orc and halforcs are loved and accepted is totally BS. This is not from me but from the source materials that is published. This is not per say what the halforc does but what its orc parents do and have done for a very long time. If you don't want halforc and orcs to be shun or discriminated against don't choose a world like Forgotten Realms where they are. Choose something like Eberron where they are tolerated.

The only elven race that I am familiar with that pillages, raids, kills, and takes slaves are the drow. The drow fit in their own category. And even the most famous drow heaven forbid, Drizzit, faced extreme racism and prejudice. People normally don't look and say look there is Drizzit, no the typical reaction is oh crap its a drow.

And from my knowledge of elves, humans don't necessary shun them but more or less accept them. In fact elves tend to be respected among humans for their arts, music, culture, and magical talents. Some elves tend to teach some wealthy families for generations.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now to say that there are equal treatment between orc and other races is totally BS in the FR setting and that halforcs are treated equally as well is also untrue. To say otherwise is to go against FR lore, which would not making it FR.

Halforcs are typically a product of violence while halfelves are typically not. Halforcs tend to be the bastards of society, nobody really wants them. This is done by the design of the developers of and Forgotten Realms. This is why a halforc who wants to fit in has to try really hard to do so. So, creating a halforc to begin with you automatically fit this character in that role, not to get a +2 to str so you can pwnd. There are places and servers I have seen that put Jim Crow laws on Halforc, Halfdrow, Orcs, and gobinoids.

The people of the world have very good reason to discriminate against these races. They would rather keep close tabs on, kick out, or lynch one of these races before they go back and get a horde of these monsters to wipe out their farms, villages, and families. Elves typically don't do these things. Orcs do. Also note Orcs take slaves. From reading their culture you can also understand how they treat women even orc women. Thus this puts a large chunk of halforcs in orc tribes.

I try not to tie these things into real world examples and history. People tend to get upset when you expose the real dark side of human nature. But you can find striking parallels in history that can demonstrate exactly how people would react.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember most of the world's population is NPCs not PCs. This includes most of the halforc population as well. Most people are simple commoners. A common person may or may not know the difference between a full orc or a half one, or they may only see the orc. They all understand the dangers of orc, drow, and goblinoids.

Yes, there are acceptations of halforc earning status and acceptance, but these are rare compared to the many that have not and the many of orc that plague the lands. The halforc maybe accepted in one town, but the other the people may respond differently. It is really hard for a halforc, just like the designers of halforcs made them to be. There is a reason they have Barbarian as a favorite class.

Elves don't have such a negative stigma attached to them like orcs do. It is kind of hard to put it to surface elves when they like train noble families for like generations and they tend to generally be on good terms with humans and sometimes help them defend against a common enemy.

DDs should have it similar to halforcs, but the population should be more afraid. They will perceive not dragon, but demon. Which should scar the locals. The locals would understand more of what a wolf or a bear is than a DD.

Also side note, people allow adventurers into their city or town for probably one many reason, economy. The adventurers spend a lot of money in such towns which helps their local economy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what pisses me off. PCs make up only a very small faction of the total worlds population, but 100% of the interaction within the world. So, when I have a character with a view of the majority of the worlds population, it makes other players to forcefully kick me out of groups. Its difficult as is living where I live, but its an added OOC punishment. Its like everyone wants the world to be super friendly to everyone except for glowing monster NPCs, and if you actually have a character that doesn't fit that mold you are kicked out.

As I said FR is not a world where they believe in equality for all and for the majority of the players to play that way disrupts the actual setting because the players are 100% interaction in the world. Think about that for awhile.

If you are an elf or halfelf that is super close friends with a halforc that has insects crawling all over it, which would by normal people consider some sort of disease or by talented scholar might be considered a vermin lord, how would others react to your character?

There is plenty of resources to back up this argument, to go against it would to take rare cases or to go against the source material published by the creators of Forgotten Realms.