Hardest high stat to roleplay...

[Razgriz]

For me it would be wisdom. Every character I make ends being careless, sometimes mad/crazed, is a bit childish/inmature or has trouble giving the best advice to someone with issues.

Troubled lad/lass asks my PC for advice:

PC 1: What do you think I should do?
My PC: Uhm... That?
PC 1: Why do you think so?
My PC: Err...Well because the other alternatives aren't better. xD

So, how can I play a high wisdom PC that isn't that good at giving advices or that can't say something profound to another PC?

And of course, if any of you wants to post why x stat gives you trouble, you can also share it here.

[Andros]

I think Wisdom can be roleplayed in two ways, one is the classic Budda type, the other one is that the high wisdom means your character has very sharp eyesight and ears, making him very watchful and aware of his surroundings, a sentry for example would benefit from having high wisdom yet how many introspective and spiritual sentries have you seen?

One way to roleplay it is having him keep tabs on everything around him even if you won't actually join a conversation across the road, emote that he is paying close attention or have him react to what is being said in a non-intrusive manner

On the other hand if you are asking advise in playing a budda type PC, I would suggest reading some philosophical/spiritual sites or books to get an idea of what those mindsets are like and what type of advice would they give to other people

[probablyamage]

Sometimes the wisest thing to do is to simply say nothing. Obviously, this will not apply when directly asked a question, but not offering advice unless you know it is sound certainly doesn't hurt. Truly wise people rarely outright solve problems for others, they gently nudge and guide others into solving their own problems.


The most difficult stat for me to roleplay properly has always been intelligence, particularly in regards to wizards. Fourteen intelligence is doable....it's higher than I or the large majority have in life, but it's not unreasonable to simulate. Eighteen intelligence is true genius.....Once you're in the high thirties or nearing forty it is literally beyond comprehension. Someone taking a peek into your thoughts literally is stunned for a few rounds because the way your brain works is utterly alien (With Lustig I tried to bring the alien nature of his thoughts into the open when I could). I personally usually roleplay wizards with an intelligence that high as a sort of savant. They're like a scientist who is only truly special within their field, but no better than your average very intelligent person outside of that field.

[Lady Frost]

I think intelligence, wisdom and charisma can all be difficult depending on who you are. If you lack charisma, intelligence, or wisdom in real life, it'll of course be harder to portray them IC. Intelligence would be the hardest for me.

Funny enough, playing Zodika for the past 4+ years has caused me to change my own personality a little. No, not by her actions but her way of thinking and communication with others. By having to work hard to portray high wisdom for that long it's eventually become second nature and almost part of who I am in real life. Much like a high level wizard's player who constantly looks up fancy words to use would probably end up using them in real life also.

[EDM Entori]

Jul 19, 2012 15:29:01 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

I think intelligence, wisdom and charisma can all be difficult depending on who you are. If you lack charisma, intelligence, or wisdom in real life, it'll of course be harder to portray them IC. Intelligence would be the hardest for me.

Funny enough, playing Zodika for the past 4+ years has caused me to change my own personality a little. No, not by her actions but her way of thinking and communication with others. By having to work hard to portray high wisdom for that long it's eventually become second nature and almost part of who I am in real life. Much like a high level wizard's player who constantly looks up fancy words to use would probably end up using them in real life also.

I just say in real-life : "nod nod".. "aye".... "Iracce?" WAIT>> WHAt?

"giggles"............yeah you heard me say it.

[mastersenge]

Charisma seems way harder to RP due to the fact that it relies on how others react to you more than what you do. There is plenty of refference material to study to be able to play off Int. Wis can be tough sometimes too because it can be screwed up by either overthinking things or not thinking enough about what could happen. Charisma by far though is the hardest I think. Especially if it's charisma not based on looking attractive.

[Spirit of a Phoenix]

Jul 19, 2012 15:54:06 GMT -5 mastersenge said:

Charisma seems way harder to RP due to the fact that it relies on how others react to you more than what you do. There is plenty of refference material to study to be able to play off Int. Wis can be tough sometimes too because it can be screwed up by either overthinking things or not thinking enough about what could happen. Charisma by far though is the hardest I think. Especially if it's charisma not based on looking attractive.

+1

I completely agree with this. In PnP I would think that wisdom might be the hardest to RP, but being as charisma is often as Mastersenge said, how others react to you; I feel that charisma is more difficult to represent on a game like this.


I tend to see wisdom more as street smarts. So a high wisdom character would just know how to take care of themselves out in the world, unlike a high Int character who might know what they need to take care of themselves, but may not know how to put it into use.

[bentusi16]

See, I refuse to measure charisma by any standards that involve 'how other people react to you, though I agree by far that it's a hard stat to play.

Because when you do that the stat becomes meaningless. I've seen low charisma chars surrounded by people who adore them and high charisma characters treated like crap.

High charisma can be played several ways, with the most common way I've seen thus far on FRC being 'extremely pretty/beautiful'. And that is a valid way to show it.

Depending on your class/character it can also represent strength of conviction, whether morally or politically or just in general how much they believe in something they believe in, or even self-esteem, with a high charisma character having a higher self-esteem, but to be honest that's another thing that makes it hard to roleplay. It can mean half a dozen things!

It's an extremely hard stat to play with if you don't have a very high self-esteem IRL or a powerful personality,

That being said, I think playing wisdom as high is a lot harder, since it's such an abstract concept

[Savoie Faire]

I don't know how old any of you are, but a good example of a well played Wisdom stat was Edith Bunker of All In The Family, which played in the late '60's and through the '70's.

The four characters were caricatures of the intelligence/wisdom spectrum.

Their stats as I see them were
Edith: 9 Int, 19 Wis
Michael: 19 Int, 9 Wis
Gloria: 14 Int, 14 Wis
Archie: 9 Int, 9 Wis

Edith was helpful, kind, always looking for the bright side of things. She knew right from wrong without having it explained to her, and she often took a very roundabout and convoluted path to demonstrate it to others. Nobody expected it when she was finally able to give good advice, but when she did choose to give advice it was always good.

Michael was her diametrically opposed partner. He was all intelligence with nothing to show him how to apply it. He was smart and assumed he was smarter than everyone else, but even Gloria was able to put him in his place when she had to.

[mastersenge]

LOL that is awesome. I've never seen anyone try to put stats to All in the Family but I think you pretty much nailed it.

[Savoie Faire]

Since I'm referencing TV, I'd like to point out that for Charisma you need look no farther than Happy Days.

The Fonz, aka Fonzie, who was a complete jerk but everyone loved him, versus Potzie, who was kind, considerate, and always cheerfully optomistic, whose only friends were Richie and Ralph.

[mastersenge]

You're on a roll, Savoie Faire.

[hellscream123]

Charisma i've always found weird and hard to portray and do the best i can. See Arician technically has cha 8 however some how can through little else but being a nice guy attract alot of friends and allies.

Intel however is very easy thanks to the fact i read everything i can about how fearuinian magic works,

[Rane]

In some cases like my evil characters i play for example, it is good to not let on how wise you are. Act like a fool around people an you end up learning alot from them. "in war the wise act foolish" its one of the truer quotes ive heard.

[Trollfiend]

What about the physical stats?

Is someone with a 30 strength stronger than Superman?

Can someone with 30 dexterity dodge bullets?

Could a man with 30 Constitution be considered invulnerable?

[bentusi16]

Yea pretty much.

I think 24+ is considered 'legendary' level attributes.

[mastersenge]

Jul 20, 2012 20:19:18 GMT -5 Trollfiend said:

Could a man with 30 Constitution be considered invulnerable?

not against superman with 30 str lol

[Andros]

A thing to remember when dealing with Charisma is that the only people that can react to you ingame are other adventurers, those are markedly way harder to impress than the common folk, for example Mark Anthony would not react to a speech by Julius Caesar in the same way the people of Rome did, or Churchill to a speech by Hitler and so on...those in the same "sphere" of influence as you are always going to be considerably harder to entice by Charismatic individuals.

As for physical stats..I wish I could offer a link but I remember in the wizards of the coast site some years ago they ran some numbers on real Life Olympic athletes using the standard tables and such from DnD, and came to show that those where in the 20+ range for them, and they don't have magic items ;D

So a 30 score would be something to aspire to with magical help and a lot of training but would not make you a superman at all.

[mastersenge]

Jul 21, 2012 18:48:09 GMT -5 Andros said:

A thing to remember when dealing with Charisma is that the only people that can react to you ingame are other adventurers, those are markedly way harder to impress than the common folk, for example Mark Anthony would not react to a speech by Julius Caesar in the same way the people of Rome did, or Churchill to a speech by Hitler and so on...those in the same "sphere" of influence as you are always going to be considerably harder to entice by Charismatic individuals.

As for physical stats..I wish I could offer a link but I remember in the wizards of the coast site some years ago they ran some numbers on real Life Olympic athletes using the standard tables and such from DnD, and came to show that those where in the 20+ range for them, and they don't have magic items ;D

So a 30 score would be something to aspire to with magical help and a lot of training but would not make you a superman at all.

Thats a pretty good way to look at the charisma one. I hadn't really thought of it that way before.

[Trollfiend]

Yes, I suppose not. According to NWN, the unencumbered carried weight limit is 1,213 pounds or roughly 550.2 kilograms for everyone in the world outside of the United States.

Now, as close as I can determine from other sources, the force it takes to bend a steel bar at a not so dense alloy is roughly 40,000 pounds per square inch. Again, for everyone else, that's 18,143.7 kilograms per square inch.

Since we all know Superman can bend bars rather easily, especially bars of weak alloy, I guess that doesn't make one comparable to Superman. According to the comics, Superman can move planets, break planets, and, in the comics where the writers try to "limit" his strength, he can still exert about 800,000 pounds of force.

Just some useless information.

[EDM Neo]

www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems

In D&D, it only takes a DC 24 strength check to bend iron bars. Someone with 18 str can manage it after a few dozen tries, probably taking breaks to rest inbetween, while someone with 30 str can usually do so after just a couple attempts.

Give this article a read through if you have a few minutes, it makes some fairly good points about ability scores, levels, etc. The short of it is that once D&D characters get past level 6 or so, they go straight past the realm of "realistic" into the realm of high fantasy, becoming stronger, faster, and more knowledgeable than anyone you've ever met in the real world. A 32 strength warrior is by far stronger than any real world athlete in human history.

[Thrym]

A medium sized character with 32 str can lift 2080 pounds over his head. He can pick up an object weighing 4160 pounds and 'stagger around' with it. That is... not within human range. At all. We are talking about someone who can lift a car over his head here. It's not Superman, but it's low powered super heroes for sure.

In my experience, you never see anyone RP that 30+ str. When you have a char with 30+ str, and use that str to actually pick up something, other PCs with 30+ str gawk at you in awe, as if they had never even considered the fact that they're capable of such. Many players will even feel the need to complain about how your strength score, which stems from half a dozen magic items and spells likely, is unrealistic and how you should be a perfectly normal person, despite the fact that the guys next to you can stop time, turn into dragons and gate in house sized demons. I had high level spellcasters tell me my high level fighter can't use her strength to pick up stuff her strength would explicitly allow her to pick up, because it's unrealistic.

To conclude, strength is the hardest stat to RP because other people will actively criticize you for trying to.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2012 4:28:47 GMT -5 Thrym said:

A medium sized character with 32 str can lift 2080 pounds over his head. He can pick up an object weighing 4160 pounds and 'stagger around' with it. That is... not within human range. At all. We are talking about someone who can lift a car over his head here. It's not Superman, but it's low powered super heroes for sure.

In my experience, you never see anyone RP that 30+ str. When you have a char with 30+ str, and use that str to actually pick up something, other PCs with 30+ str gawk at you in awe, as if they had never even considered the fact that they're capable of such. Many players will even feel the need to complain about how your strength score, which stems from half a dozen magic items and spells likely, is unrealistic and how you should be a perfectly normal person, despite the fact that the guys next to you can stop time, turn into dragons and gate in house sized demons. I had high level spellcasters tell me my high level fighter can't use her strength to pick up stuff her strength would explicitly allow her to pick up, because it's unrealistic.

To conclude, strength is the hardest stat to RP because other people will actively criticize you for trying to.

Low powered super heroes is a perfect description of high stat PCs, well done Thrym.

Let us not forget that we can do this with nothing more than a single apple as sustenance for the entire day.

[Dawn of the Ages]

Jul 22, 2012 4:28:47 GMT -5 Thrym said:

A medium sized character with 32 str can lift 2080 pounds over his head. He can pick up an object weighing 4160 pounds and 'stagger around' with it. That is... not within human range. At all. We are talking about someone who can lift a car over his head here. It's not Superman, but it's low powered super heroes for sure.

In my experience, you never see anyone RP that 30+ str. When you have a char with 30+ str, and use that str to actually pick up something, other PCs with 30+ str gawk at you in awe, as if they had never even considered the fact that they're capable of such. Many players will even feel the need to complain about how your strength score, which stems from half a dozen magic items and spells likely, is unrealistic and how you should be a perfectly normal person, despite the fact that the guys next to you can stop time, turn into dragons and gate in house sized demons. I had high level spellcasters tell me my high level fighter can't use her strength to pick up stuff her strength would explicitly allow her to pick up, because it's unrealistic.

To conclude, strength is the hardest stat to RP because other people will actively criticize you for trying to.

The problem with lifting such weights is not so much your muscles being able to do so... but in my eyes the rest of the body... I'm fairly sure the human skeleton isnt made to handle that kind of weights.. let alone an Elven or Hin.. to name some others..

[Trollfiend]

Actually, it's a reflex that causes the muscles to relax once the tendons get stretched. Ever have a doctor tap your knee with the little hammer? That's the test for that reflex. It's why body builders can only lift so much before they drop the weights. They don't drop them voluntarily- it's an uncontrollable reflex. Why? It's not due to a lack of strength- The body builder could very well lift the barbell that he just dropped... It's because tendons are pulling off of the bones. If that happens, your arm (or whatever you're using) is suddenly useless. You can't break a bone under the strain- you simply pull the muscles off of the bone at the tendon. Fortunately for us, we have a natural reflex that completely prevents us from going that far. The reflex can't be resisted.

[Lady Frost]

... This is fantasy. Nobody is complaining about Atlas' tendons or skeleton being capable of holding up the entire planet.

[Thrym]

*points at above posts*

See what I mean.

An epic fighter has enough hp to survive terminal velocity. Likely multiple times in a row. Being hit by a meteorshower barely fazes him! He gets critted by frost giants and lives! All in game, and no one bats an eye at it.

But some players will say the same guy can't lift a metric ton. That'll snap his bones and stuff.

Strength = Hardest Stat to Roleplay because people try to forbid you to RP it.

[Trollfiend]

Jul 22, 2012 18:18:48 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

... This is fantasy. Nobody is complaining about Atlas' tendons or skeleton being capable of holding up the entire planet.

Once again, the obvious gets stated. The purpose of this whole entire thread was to use real world examples to gain a better understanding of how to RP stats when they reach epic. I think that explains quite clearly the line between reality and fantasy. Also, we all, everyone of us, know that this game allows things that the real world doesn't.

Thrym? Go ahead and lift 8,000 pounds with one hand. I won't stop you. Your PC is not real. We all know that.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2012 17:54:03 GMT -5 Trollfiend said:

Actually, it's a reflex that causes the muscles to relax once the tendons get stretched. Ever have a doctor tap your knee with the little hammer? That's the test for that reflex. It's why body builders can only lift so much before they drop the weights. They don't drop them voluntarily- it's an uncontrollable reflex. Why? It's not due to a lack of strength- The body builder could very well lift the barbell that he just dropped... It's because tendons are pulling off of the bones. If that happens, your arm (or whatever you're using) is suddenly useless. You can't break a bone under the strain- you simply pull the muscles off of the bone at the tendon. Fortunately for us, we have a natural reflex that completely prevents us from going that far. The reflex can't be resisted.

What the SRD says, is that they can lift/carry x number of pounds. It doesn't say that as a comparison to RL weightlifters they'll be forced to drop the weight by reflex. It says they can lift it and carry it. We will honor what the strength stat is able to do according the 3.5 D&D and the system reference document say, we will not compare you to a real life bodybuilder and make you drop the weight by reflex.

Apparently high strength d&d characters tendons, muscles, and bones kick way more Ass than real peoples.

[pmatch]

Wisdom's highest, because someone who was super-wise would probably not be making a career of going into super-dangerous dungeons in the first place.